One is the first batsman to cross 10,000 Test runs; the other 12,000. One is fromDadar; the other from Bandra. CNN-IBN's editor-in-chief Rajdeep Sardesai got the two little masters together in probably their first interview together.
Rajdeep Sardesai: I have with me the two legends of thegame, the world's 12,000 Test run man, and the first 10,000 man ofthe game, a staggering 22,000 runs between my two guests today, the one and onlySunil Gavaskar and the one and only Sachin Tendulkar. If I go by the statistics,do you know how many centuries you have scored between the two of you inInternational cricket? Who has a better mathematical mind? Mr. Gavaskar, youwould usually know how many hundreds have been scored?
Sunil Manohar Gavaskar: No, I am not Geoffrey Boycott here.
Sardesai: You have scored more than a 100 hundredsbetween the two of you, if you include Test cricket and one day internationals,but Sachin, 12,000 runs, has it sunk in? What does it mean to have scored 12,000test runs?
Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar: To be honest, it still hasn't sunk in; Iwas just focusing on the ball because till I scored the runs whoever met me, thefirst question was, you have to do it and when are you doing it? So I wasliterally fed up of answering them. I don't play for records and I just wantto play my game and enjoy my cricket rather than chasing records. I know if I goand do that, records will be broken automatically and I don't need to focus onthat.
Sardesai: Is that the same way you felt when youscored 10,000 runs? Was it every day somebody telling you, 'Mr. Gavaskar, whenare you scoring 10,000 runs?'
Gavaskar: 10,000 was not something that people lookedat. It was basically when one got close to that 29th century mark ofSir Donald Bradman, that was the time people... after the 28thcentury, you got off the aircraft and the aircraft maintenance guys would askyou about it, you had room service breakfast guys -- the guy who deliveredit, instead of asking for a complimentary match-ticket, he would say we wantyour 29th century here... So the pressure used to build up every timeyou went to the ground, we didn't have Ipods then, so we had to listen to the talis as well asgaalis.
Sardesai: How do you deal with pressure? Do you keepit out, when you are out there; you keep out all the records?
Tendulkar: It's not that easy to switch off from allthese things, our sub-conscious mind grasps all these things and somewhere it isstored. Even if you don't want to focus on all these things, theroom-service guy will remind you of it, so somewhere its stored and that's thelast thing you want, you want to go out there with a blank mind . You just haveto go out and bat, watch the ball as closely as possible and bat.
Sardesai: Mr. Gavaskar, you used to say something thatI still don't quite believe that you never used to know your score that youdid not even know when you were on 99?
Gavaskar: Yes because I was not interested in how manyruns I was batting on, I was only interested in how many runs I got after I gotout.
Sardesai: So you never had a look at the scoreboard?
Gavaskar: I had a vague idea, for the simple reason,because if you are on 46, and you know you need four runs to get to a 50, youmight play a shot to a ball which you normally wouldn't in just trying to getthat boundary. If you are on 96 you might play a shot that would get you out, sothe thing to do would be to forget how many runs you are on and then only seeyour score when you got out.
Sardesai: Are you the same, Sachin?
Tendulkar: No, I do look at the scoreboard...
Sardesai: So, in a sense, both of you legends had avery different approach to run making. Did you, Mr Gavaskar, for example, go tenruns at a time?
Gavaskar: I did it in sessions, not in 10s and 20s.Again, you are putting yourself under pressure when you are looking at anytarget. As I said, it could be that you are on six, and you would say let me goto 10 and my next target will be 20, so you are putting yourself under thatpressure. You just play by sessions, so you know that you have to play two hoursbefore lunch, two hours until tea and then one and a half hours, it was five anda half hours. So if you did that, at the normal scoring rate, you knew you mightget your 100 somewhere.
Sardesai: Was that your philosophy too Sachin,bat session by session?
Tendulkar: I played a little differently, a lotdepended on my rhythm, my bat swing and if I felt everything was goingwell on that particular day, then I would sometimes choose the bowlers, likethese are the bowlers that I am going to go after and I felt that in patches youscore plenty of boundaries and then all of a sudden, you get these strikebowlers bowling disciplined lines and you need to just hold yourself back a bitand set different targets. There have been occasions where I have gone into thefield with the frame of mind that I am going to bat at least for a session andthen look at the next session to attack. Sometimes, in the first session, I tellmyself that I am just going to try and hang in there, try and spend as much timeas possible. It varies match by match.
Sardesai: What always strikes out that even in the wayyou are dressed, Sachin is dressed in a brightly colored T-Shirt, and Mr.Gavaskar is in a long sleeved formal shirt, both of you have scored remarkableruns and are run-machines but both of you have done it very differently, is thatthe way cricket is, different players, can be run-machines but by approachingthe game very differently?
Gavaskar: Yes, there are different methods to gettingruns, it also depends on the kind of game that you have-- you could be a frontfoot player, you could be a back foot player, you could be good on the off-side,your grip might be suited to an on-side game. There are different methods ofgetting runs and in the Indian team itself you have got Sachin, you have got VVS,you have Virendra Sehwag, they all have different methods of dealing with thesame kind of a delivery.
Sardesai: The reason I ask this to the two of you isbecause Sachin, you grew up, in a sense we all grew up, in the 1980s hearingabout the legend of Sunil Gavaskar and you were inspired by him and yet yourbatting was very different...
Tendulkar: I had two heroes while I was growing up andthey are still my heroes, Mr. Gavaskar sitting next to me and Vivian Richardsand I felt I would want to grow up and play cricket like my heroes, the dreamwas that every time any particular thing happened in school matches or practicesessions, I would say, Gavaskar never did that, even today that happens.
Sardesai: Is there a West Indian tucked inside Sachinsomewhere, he is closer to Vivian Richards in a sense than Sunil Gavaskar whenit comes to the art of batsmanship?
Gavaskar: Yes, particularly when he goes down thetrack on the spinners, his back-lift is so much like Richards', the way he useshis wrists -- when he does that, I say to myself, Oh this is so much likeVivian Richards when he does that, lofts the spinner over the top . There isa lot of Vivian Richards in him except one thing that Vivian used to do wasplonk his front foot there and whip everything down the leg side, Sachin isclassically correct, he would play mostly on the off side.
Sardesai: There are in a sense two schools of batting, the Gavaskar style which wears down bowlers and one which destroys bowlers likeSachin. Mr Gavaskar, do you want to bat like Sachin Tendulkar sometimes when yousee him, especially in One day Cricket?
Gavaskar: Look, this is what happens with theformer cricketers, they have unfulfilled aspirations, dreams some times and whenthe next generation comes and does, there is a great feeling of enjoyment, Ienjoy watching Sachin, Sehwag bat, because they do the kind of things that Iwanted to do but was not able to do, probably it was a mental block.
Sardesai: You could probably count the number of sixesyou have hit in test cricket on the fingers of one hand, right Mr Gavaskar?
Gavaskar: No, I think I have hit a little more thanGeoffrey Boycott!
Sardesai: Sachin, is there something thatyou have learnt from the Gavaskar school of batting? What is it that onequality of Sunil Gavaskar that always struck out to you as a batsman?
Tendulkar: It's everything about him because growingup as a budding cricketer and wanting to play for India, it was the ultimatedream and you had the ultimate player whom we actually had this pleasure ofwatching from a close distance, the concentration and the determination, thededication, the confidence to play fast bowling.
Sardesai: Did you ever go to Mr Gavaskar over theyears for special things? I believe from time to time he would tell you ifsomething he felt was going wrong in the grip or some small mistakes?
Tendulkar: Right from my Ranji Trophy days, before myRanji Trophy debut, he presented me his leg guards, so right from those days Iwould say I have always shared my thoughts with him and he has shared histhoughts with me and it has been tremendous help and what else can you ask for?
Sardesai: Mr Gavaskar, I have to ask you, and behonest, when you first saw Sachin bat, did you think one day this boy will be apart of this elite 10,000 club, will go on to score 12,000 runs?
Gavaskar: I think yes, I have to be absolutely honestand say if he was not going to be beset by any injuries, he was going tohave all the batting records in the world. Please ask my wife of what I feltwhen I first saw him bat. I had heard so much about him. I went and saw him froma corner because I didn't want him to be conscious that I was standing behindthe nets so I was hiding in a corner and I watched him bat and I went home and Isaid to my wife that I had seen something really special, she said you havenever said this about any cricketer before. And I can tell you she has followedhis cricket career as avidly as any other Indian.
Sardesai: What is that one quality you think you needto become a run machine, whether it's a Gavaskar or a Tendulkar? Is it just technique? What makes a 10,000 club player according to you?
Tendulkar: It's the desire and it's extremelyimportant to dream big and then you chase your dreams and that is extremelyimportant. And then, the passion. Because I grew up loving the sport, and Icannot imagine my life without cricket, and if anyone had given an option tochoose, I would choose cricket 100 out of 100 times.
Sardesai: You say you would chase your dreams. Wasyour dream even in 1987-88, when you started off, to score 10,000 runs? Did yousay to yourself there is Sunil Gavaskar, with 34 test hundreds, I want to scoremore than that?
Tendulkar: There was always this target of 34 hundredsand growing up as a cricketer, my brother always told me that if you want to besomething in the history of Indian cricket, this is what you have to chasebecause this is the ultimate thing and Gavaskar is your role model, so you haveto try and follow all those things and it was my target.
Sardesai: One thing about Gavaskar's game which youconsciously tried to adapt? Was it the focus or just the ability to be theresession after session, wearing down bowlers? Is that something you maybesub-consciously or consciously learnt from Mr. Gavaskar?
Tendulkar: It is obviously the concentration and thediscipline. You have to be disciplined, to have an organized mind and once yourmind is organized, it all just follows and when your mind is disorganized, it's tough.
Sardesai: Mr Gavaskar still plays badminton everydayat four o'clock if he is in Mumbai. Are you, like, that kind of a person,Sachin? Do you have a set schedule, once you go out and bat, the same thing thatyou have done year after year?
Tendulkar: No, not really, I go by my instincts. Thereare times when just before going to bat, I feel like listening to some music. Ihave done two different things, opening in one day cricket is different andbatting in the middle order in Test cricket is different, in one day cricket Ican be still listening to music and as soon as the umpires are out and thefielders are out, I immediately remove my ear-phones and keep them aside andjust walk in to bat. But in Test cricket, I don't know at what time Ihave to walk in, so it's difficult and it requires a different preparation, notonly physical preparation but mental preparation.
Sardesai: Sachin always makes batting sound soridiculously easy. It's easy to say you want to be focused, determined,passionate, but Sachin has translated it on the ground. What's the one that's always struck out for you, Mr Gavaskar, about Sachin through these 20years? Something you believe makes him stand apart from anyone else you haveseen?
Gavaskar: Balance, which is the most important thing-- he has got balance on the field and that is helped to a great extent bybalance off the field. Without balance, so many potentially great cricketershave been lost, it's the balance off the field which is so important and tohave that balance off the field you need people around you who will make surethat you have your feet on the ground, the family becomes such an importantaspect in keeping that balance.
Sardesai: You both are strong family men, is theresomething about the Maharashtrian middle class mind-set perhaps? Mr Gavaskargrew up in the Dadar area. Sachin, you grew up in MIG colony in Bandra, is theresomething that kept the feet on the ground, in your case, Sachin, your father, Ibelieve, played a huge role?
Tendulkar: Yes, in cricket I had different role modelsand in my life I had my father as my role model. I always felt that if I can behalf as good a person as my father was, I know that I am on the right track.
Sardesai: Your father, I believe, was a very calm man?
Tendulkar: Absolutely.
Sardesai: That's what he gave you in your life?
Tendulkar: Very calm and balanced, never lost histemper, never raised his voice. He was absolutely calm and balanced and I alwayswanted to be like that.
Sardesai: Any similar person like this in your life,Mr Gavaskar ?
Gavaskar: My parents were a big help, my wife, theywere the ones who kept me grounded, upbringing is so important and I am not justtalking about the upbringing that you get when you say please, thank you,whatever but cricketing upbringing also and in the respect of cricketingupbringing, I would thank the people I played with at Dadar Union, the teammates there, people like VS Patil, PK Kamath, Madhav Mantri, the discipline hehad, he was my mama, Vasu Paranjpe, they were the guys who came with the kind ofupbringing that got me where I was.
Sardesai: What also stood out for me all these yearswas that both of you raised your game when you played the best teams of your time -- Mr Gavaskar when you played West Indies, Sachin when you playedAustralia. Do you raise your game Sachin, for example, when you played a ShaneWarne or a Glenn Mcgrath?
Tendulkar: I wish I could do that.
Sardesai: But you did, you destroyed Shane Warne athis peak.
Tendulkar: It doesn't matter who the opposition is,it is about cricket to me and whenever there is a cricket bat in hand I want togive my best, I am not there to fool around, I am not there to make anycompromises, I want to go out and give my best, it might be even a practice gamebut I just want to give my best.
Sardesai: I was hearing Javed Miadaad the other day,trying to compare Sunil Gavaskar and Sachin Tendulkar and Javed was saying itwas much more difficult playing in the 70s because you had to play sides withfour fast bowlers. Do you ever compare, do you believe its fair to compare aTendulkar with a Gavaskar
Gavaskar: Not at all, it's unfair because I wouldlike to think what Sir Don Bradman said-- and it holds true-- and he said that achampion in one era would be a champion in another era, so I don't thinkcomparisons are required. Comparisons are good for the fans and the followers ofthe game and I don't think cricketers ever indulge in comparisons. They mightgo on a nostalgic trip and say that during our days things were tougher, but Idon't think cricketers often compare.
Sardesai: What's more difficult, facing four WestIndian Fast Bowlers in the 70s or playing a mix of one day, Twenty20 and testcricket today? I am sure both were equally difficult?
Tendulkar: Cricket is a difficult game and hats off toMr Gavaskar how he managed to play four genuine quick bowlers without a helmet.
Gavaskar: And nothing inside to protect (points to hisbrain and laughs).
Sardesai: But Mr Gavaskar, you never got hit on thehead or probably just once. But then again, today fielding has improved out ofrecognition. Sachin, do you also subscribe to the view that if you are a greatplayer in one generation you are a great player always?
Tendulkar: Yes, I agree with that, once you are a greatplayer in a particular generation, then it doesn't matter because that playerknows how to adjust to different conditions. In every generation, you playin so many different conditions, on many different pitches and against manydifferent bowlers and all those things require adjustment. In the end, itsabout adjustment in this game and if you can adjust to the conditions, then youcan play in any generation.
Sardesai: Your proudest moment Mr Gavaskar on acricket field?
Gavaskar: it has to be the 1983 world cup win andnothing can beat that.
Sardesai: And that's because you took those catchesin the slips and not because of your batting? So ironically even after scoring10,000 runs for you the greatest moment was not the runs you scored but thevictory?
