On Boycotts And Disruptions

The Complete transcript of BBC Hindi special programme Aapki Baat BBC KeSaath with Parliamentary Affairs and Urban Development Minister, Ghulam NabiAzad

Nagendar Sharma : Mr Ghulam Nabi Azad, would the Monsoonsession also of be an action replay of previoussessions marred by disruptions and walkouts or shouldthe country expect something different from thehighest forum of parliamentary democracy? 

Ghulam Nabi Azad : I am happy to say that the seriesof meetings which have been going on since past fewdays with all political parties – the left, right andcentre, the UPA constituents, NDA partners all haveassured the government and the speaker that nobody isinterested in boycotts and disruptions -- this gives ushope that the Monsoon session would see a lot ofparliamentary business.

BBC listener from America: Sir, in 2004, there were 85sittings of Lok Sabha and 49 of Rajya Sabha, andduring these days the average working hours each daywere only three and a half. Is this not a cause ofworry for Indian parliamentary system? Also, in the 14th Lok Sabha the number of young MPs is quitehigh -- what are you doing as parliamentary affairsminister to encourage them to speak in the house?

Ghulam Nabi Azad : I agree with you as weparliamentarians have an immense responsibility.Crores of people participate in the massive exerciseto elect the representatives for Parliament, and enough debates have taken placealready on thecosts involved. Now ifafter such an elaborate exercise, those elected do notparticipate in parliamentary proceedings or Parliament does not function, it is really sad anddisappointing for the whole country. Therefore, forthis session we have done prior homework to see thatsuch disappointments are not repeated. The governmenthas assured the opposition that it is ready for debate onany issue that the opposition wants to raise. 

On your second part about young MPs, if you recollectduring the budget session around 35-40 young MPs saton a dharna in the parliament complex near MahatmaGandhi’s statue in protest against the frequentdisruptions, which was not allowing them to utilisethe session time for constructive use. This had animpact on senior members, and I think it is only the firstyear in Parliament for these young MPs. Ittakes you a year to understand the parliamentaryprocedures, and from now on we hope that we would beseeing the best of the younger lot in Parliament. 

Nagendar Sharma : Mr Azad, another worrying factor is theincreasing number of backbenchers in Parliament -- the number of vocal MPs is on a consistent decline,why ?

Ghulam Nabi Azad : No, I think the number of MPs whowant to speak on issues concerning theirconstituencies and public issues is rising. Theproblem is that if any member sits the whole night toprepare his speech, and then delivers it in the Housefor say even an hour, it would not find even a singleline mention in the next day’s newspapers. On theother hand, if any MP stands up to shout and disruptthe proceedings, his images would be splashed bytelevision channels from morning to evening. Goodparliamentarians find that speaking in the house doesnot serve any purpose, as attention is being paid todisruptors. 

It is not only the responsibility of the legislatureto ensure smooth conduct of Parliament, the fourthestate of democracy would also have to fulfil itsresponsibility. Despite many efforts in the past, wehave not succeeded in convincing the media – bothprint and electronic that if you start ignoring thosewho come to Parliament only to disrupt it, they wouldbe automatically discouraged, as they wouldunderstand that attention cannot be attracted bynegative tactics.  

BBC listener from Abohar (Punjab): Sir, if salariesof MPs are to be hiked, such a bill would beunanimously passed, but there would be disruptions ifissues of public importance are to be raised. Why isIndian Parliament becoming a laughing stock, andmajority of people remain silent as they do not wantto invite trouble by criticising politicians. Is itnot a sad state ? 

Ghulam Nabi Azad : I could not agree with you more.There was a time in our country, about five-six decadesback that politicians were seen as role models, andtoday they are looked upon with disdain. We have to godeep into this debate, if politicians are being lookedat with a feeling of hate, then let us not forget itis reflection on our society. During the past decadeor so, criminal elements are being elected to Parliament and state legislatures--in some cases thesecriminals contest elections from the jail and winby huge margins. 

Our party and some others have been consistentlyraising their voice against criminalisation of politics, andwe cannot forget that if criminals are enteringpolitics, where do they come from? We have to acceptthey have been living in the same society, which nowwants to shun them. Who has been electing them? It isthe voters of the country. Therefore it is an overalldecline in the values of our society, which all of uswould have to rebuild, without passing on the blame.

Nagendar Sharma : Mr Azad, the UPA government has beenmaintaining that an all-party consensus is required tocheck criminalisation of politics. Prime Minister hadalso hinted at this, and the centre’s stand in SupremeCourt was also for consensus, why is the initiativelacking? 

Ghulam Nabi Azad : Well, the government alone cannot doanything on this. An initiative was taken in thisregard by the Election Commission, and centralgovernments in the past and now are also trying,but, yes, attempts have been insufficient, because atthe moment, the constitution of the country allowssuch people to contest elections. An amendment in theconstitution is required to check this evil practice.Many political parties in the country depend on suchelements. In many cases, criminal elements get electedeven while being in jail, therefore a bigeffort is required in which a change in the electorallaws, along with public pressure is required to stopthis.

BBC listener from Jaipur: Sir but what is thegovernment doing to check criminalisation, and,when Parliament is in session, to check repeateddisruptions? 

Ghulam Nabi Azad : Well, more than the government it isthe responsibility of the people. Please tell me whoelects these criminals? I think Indian voter isone of the most intelligent voter in the world -- lookat the surprising election results we get in our country, but somehow on the issue of criminals inpolitics, we have been disappointed.  So far as your question of disruptions is concerned, Ido not want to name anyone, those who have been eitherboycotting the proceedings or disrupting them haverealised that it is only in their benefit to let Parliament function, so that they can say whateverthey want on issues important to them. 

BBC listener from Pakistan : Sir we in Pakistan watchthe Indian parliamentary proceedings with greatinterest. For the Monsoon session the opposition NDAhas already made its intentions clear of bringingmotions against Prime Minister’s statements on BritishRaj in Oxford University and Iran-India gas pipelinein Washington. Similarly the Left parties are flexingtheir muscles. Is this session going to be overloadedand politically surcharged ? 

Ghulam Nabi Azad : My friend, all parliament sessionsin India are overloaded and politically surcharged,given our population, the way debates in Parliamenttake place and the way members want to raise issuesconcerning their regions and of general publicinterest. We have been assured by the opposition aswell as parties supporting the government that theywould like to participate in the parliamentaryproceedings during this session, and we on our part havetold them that the government is ready for discussionon any issue which the opposition and partiessupporting the government want to raise. So far as your question on Prime Minister’s remarks inBritain and America are concerned, these issues wouldbe discussed in this session and the government isready with a reply or for a debate. 

Nagendar Sharma : What bills are on government’s priority listfor the Monsoon session? 

Ghulam Nabi Azad : Three important bills are ongovernment’s priority list. The biggest promise of UPAgovernment was to ensure a minimum of one hundred daysof employment for the rural poor who are unable tofind jobs to feed themselves and their families. Weare going to fulfil our promise in the Monsoon sessionof Parliament by bringing the National RuralEmployment Guarantee Bill.

Another landmark bill to come up in this session isthe Dual Citizenship for NRIs living in foreigncountries except Pakistan and Bangladesh. This wouldalso be the fulfilment of UPA government's commitmenttowards the countrymen living outside India, so thatthey are better placed in countries where they areliving and also in their home country. We are also going to bring the bills for serviceconditions of Supreme Court and High Court judges. ThePresident's rule in Bihar is going to end inSeptember, and since the elections are not going totake place till that time, it would have to beextended, along with passing the budget for thestate. All these bills are going to be passed duringthe Monsoon session of Parliament. 

Nagendar Sharma : But Mr Azad, when we talk of Parliament andits procedures, India has adopted its parliamentarysystem from Britain, but the similarity ends there.Disruptions are unheard of in the House of Commons,and debates continue through the night, withoutmembers demanding anything extra. Why can’t we followgood things from other parliamentary democracies ? 

Ghulam Nabi Azad : Well, if you talking in terms ofsittings of the House, then Indian parliamentariansare second to none. If there's a month long session, and you are talking about proceedings beingdisrupted on four-five days, then we should also bear in mindthat there are days when MPs sit beyond midnight, andeven skip the lunch-break to carry on discussionsinside the house. But as I have said, all this is nottaken note off by the media, disruptions are. 

Coming to the comparison with the British parliament, I'd say this is not a fair comparison. In Britain, you havetotally literate MPs who share a common workinglanguage. Ours is a country with MPs coming from diverseeducational, regional and linguistic backgrounds.However, in our country the unfortunate part is thatif there are five disruptions in a session all of themwould make a headline. But if theparliament sits beyond midnight or even the lunchbreak is cancelled, there is no mention of this. Weshould also not forget that slippers have been hurledat each other even in the British Parliament,therefore what I am saying is that all parliamentshave unique features of their own, but we are willingto learn from all good parliamentary procedures.

BBC listener from Srinagar: Mr Azad, I want to drawyour attention towards your home state Kashmir. Therewas an understanding between Congress and the PDP onchief ministership, that first three years PDP wouldhave the CM and next three years it would be the turn of the Congress. Are you going to take over as the ChiefMinister in November ? 

Ghulam Nabi Azad : Well, so far as the understandingbetween the Congress and the PDP is concerned, itstands as it was at the time of government formationin October 2002. At that time, as you have rightlypointed out, it was decided that it would be PDP’sturn for chief ministership first, for a period ofthree years, and then it would be the Congress turnfor next three years. There is no change in thisposition, Congress would be getting the chief minister's chair by October-end. Who would be thechief minister, would be decided then by the Congress party. We would cross thatbridge when we come to it. Beyond that I cannot tell you anything on theissue.

BBC listener from Bihar: Mr Azad would the Monsoonsession of Parliament be different, or would we seethe same slogan-shouting and disruptions again? 

Ghulam Nabi Azad : We have been assured by theopposition as well as those supporting the governmentthat they would cooperate in running Parliament. My confidence comes from the assurance of theopposition. I also want to say without naming anyone,that those who were regularly boycotting theproceedings of the parliament frequently during recentsessions have now understood that it is in theirinterest to participate in the house.