'Inventive Diplomacy'

Yashwant Sinha:  Friends, good afternoon. We are circulating the Opening Statement which willbe in your hands in a little while.

The reason why I have given you this trouble of coming here this afternoon is that I have made a few tripsin the neighbourhood and there are a few further trips which are planned, most importantly, the trip to NewYork for the United Nations General Assembly, and before that, a bilateral visit to Washington on the 9thand 10th. So, I thought this would be a good opportunity to interact with you, exchange a few notes, andgenerally keep each other informed. So, that is the basic purpose of this meeting. It is not driven by acrisis, for a change.

When you get the written statement of opening remarks you will find that in about eight weeks or so I havein this office, I have visited all the SAARC countries in the neighbourhood. We started with a trip toMaldives followed by Sri Lanka; then I went to Bhutan; and most recently I have gone to Kathmandu; and then toBangladesh. In the meanwhile I also took the opportunity to make a visit to Afghanistan. And Brunei was havingthe ARF (Asean Regional Forum) meeting. It was already on the cards. So, a visit to Brunei is what hashappened so far. There was a purpose behind my visiting our immediate neighbours because I wanted to reiterateonce again, emphasise our policy. It is not a new policy, I will hasten to clarify, to re-emphasise the policyof engagement with our immediate neighbourhood. These visits have been very productive, very useful and wehave been able to understand each other better and move on with regard to various programmes of cooperationthat we have.

In Kathmandu, as you are aware, I also attended the SAARC Council of Ministers, the Foreign Ministers,meeting which was held for two days. My trip to Afghanistan was particularly interesting because I did notmerely stay on in Kabul but traveled to the Provinces. I went to Herat, Mazar-e-Sharief and Kandahar. In Mazar,I inaugurated the Indian Consulate-General. We are proposing to get our Consulate functioning in Herat verysoon. The officials have already gone. Similarly, we propose to open our Consulate-General in Kandahar. We arein the process of selecting the people for the Consulate, those who will man it. As soon as this is done, wewill move ahead and then finally we will open a Consulate-General in Jalalabad.

In the Brunei meeting I had an opportunity of meeting bilaterally a number of Foreign Ministers who werethere. All this information you will find in the opening statement. [Please see the link to the right]

I would not like to take very much of your time in the opening remarks considering that we have to finishin about 40 minutes. So, I now leave the floor for you to ask any questions you may have in this regard. 

Sinha sahab, Mr. Armitage has said that infiltration across the Line of Control is continuing but Pakistanhas no hand in it, that Pakistan had no control over those elements. What does India say now after America hasmade such a statement?

Yashwant Sinha: Before America made this statement, Musharraf sahab had also saidsomething to this effect. While answering the questions by Indian media people, his Foreign Minister who cameto Kathmandu also made some such statement. In this statement and in the earlier statement we see acontradiction. 

Earlier, whenever he used to be asked what was happening at the border, what was happening onthe LOC, Musharraf sahab always used to say nothing was happening on the LOC. We do believe that if someincidents are occurring which are beyond his control, then he should clearly place it in front of us, in frontof the world that he does not have control over such elements. He cannot say both the things together –saying that nothing is happening and then saying that something is happening, secondly saying that it is intheir control and then saying that it is not in their control. 

So, we feel that they have to put theirviewpoint clearly and unambiguously at some point of time. Then only we can think about it. You are aware thatour Prime Minister had put forward this suggestion many days ago that we can do joint patrolling at theborder, some system in that regard can be thought of. 

If Pakistan clearly accepts that all this is out oftheir control - however, I would like to make it clear that it will be very difficult for us to accept thisbecause border does not start abruptly. There is a vast hinterland behind the border. Passing through thisland if terrorists infiltrate like this and their border security forces remain mute spectators to it, andinfiltrate into India, believing them all of a sudden is not possible. 

Considering the nature of the terrainwe can say it with confidence that without the help of Pakistani forces nobody can enter India from there. So,if Musharraf sahab says this, or after discussing with him if our American friends say this, as I said, tosuddenly start believing what he is saying is not possible. 

Mr.Armitage was here. How was this visit of his different than the earlier visit? We have been demanding so manythings on Pakistan like closure of camps. Nothing has happened on that front. Could you tell us then what isthe message that you will carry on your visit of 9th September when you would be in New York? 

Yashwant Sinha: We told our interlocutors, stated the facts as we see them. Quite clearly as far as the facts areconcerned, they are: (1) infiltration from across the line of control; (2) the whole infrastructure ofterrorism which Pakistan has so assiduously built on the territory they control. 

It is our very firm view thatmerely stopping the infiltration without dealing with the infrastructure of terrorism is not enough from ourpoint of view. We must have credible evidence that not only are they tackling the issue of infiltration butthey are also taking effective action to dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism. 

You are quite right insaying that while there has been, between periods, some decline in the level of infiltration, there is verylittle evidence that the infrastructure of terrorism has been effectively dealt with. We will keep on tellingall our friends what the facts are, how we see these facts. To the extent to which they can do something aboutit they are most welcome to make a contribution. 

Mr. Minister, you have been toall the neighbouring countries except one, on a mission to win friends. When do you think you can extend thesame mission to Pakistan too?

Yashwant Sinha: Not in the foreseeable future. 

But are you trying to make SAARC more effective regardless of Pakistani involvement? 

Yashwant Sinha:Yes, Sir. I had clearly stated in Kathmandu, both within the SAARC meeting and outside, thatIndia is committed to the SAARC process; we would like SAARC to emerge as a powerful regional bloc; we wouldlay emphasis on economic cooperation within SAARC; and finally that we will not allow our relationship withPakistan to in any way thwart the SAARC process. That is our stated position. 

If you see the recent American statements in this regard, America has made sympatheticstatements towards Pakistan. Don’t you think America has changed its attitude recently?

Yashwant Sinha: That view of theirs has been an old view. There has been no change in their attitude. You are aware thatPakistan is cooperating with America and other countries on its western borders. We have to clearly take intoaccount the fact that the significance of Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan as political powers has ceased.But as a terrorist outfit, it is still there. In fighting against them Pakistan is extending cooperation tothese countries, in particular to America because they are involved in it directly. 

As far as India isconcerned that is not the situation. They are not directly involved in the sense that they have not committedany troops. So, we have to understand this clearly that when they talk about terrorism in the context ofPakistan, somewhere or the other you can find this dual talk. Then you can see some contradiction in this dualtalk and their statements – one is Pakistan’s cooperation in fighting the terrorist groups in Afghanistanand the second is the issue with India. So, when they say Pakistan is their stalwart ally in the fight againstterrorism, quite clearly Pakistan is a stalwart ally, or some kind of an ally in their fight with regard toterrorist elements in Afghanistan. 

Yashwantji, you have said that infiltration from Pakistani sideis continuing. How long will India put up with it? And what happened to your diplomacy? Has it failed tosucceed?

Yashwant Sinha: See, the problem of terrorism began neither on 11th September nor on 13thDecember. The problem of terrorism has been there for years and we have been dealing with it. So, merelysaying that our policy with regard to terrorism failed to succeed after a gap of few months, would not becorrect. I do agree that the basic responsibility of dealing with terrorism lies on our shoulders and we areendeavouring to deal with it. 

As far as the other countries in the world are concerned, since we are a memberof the world community, we have to keep our viewpoint before the world countries. We have done thatsuccessfully. The other countries in the world understanding and accepting the fact that Pakistan is aidingand abetting cross border terrorism has not been a small achievement for India. So, if we have to look at itin the whole context, we have to take into account the background also. 

Richard Armitage has leftthe region and he said that tensions have in fact eased. Is that your opinion too that tensions have easedbetween India and Pakistan? If so, how have they? And if they have not, how have the tensions risen? 

Yashwant Sinha: Each one of us will make our own assessment on the situation. Mr. Armitage has made hisassessment. It appears to me that the basic understanding that there was a danger of an immediate conflict, Ithink that basic understanding itself was somewhat flawed at one point of time in recent months. Those who sawit in those terms would perhaps think that tensions have reduced or eased. We had not seen it in those terms. 

When we moved our troops to the international border, our troops in any case man the Line of Control, it wasto prevent any aggression, it was a clearly defensive mobilization that we had done. That might have given theimpression that some kind of a conflict was imminent and, therefore, there was some concern in the minds ofsome of our friends. But I do not think we can look at the situation in terms of increasing tension orreduction in tension on a daily basis. 

We have a certain policy; we have followed that policy; we are standingby that policy today, and as we have made it very clear to our friends, we will continue to stand by thatpolicy even in future, namely, that the fight against terrorism, cross border terrorism from Pakistan is India’sfight, and that India is determined to fight that battle. If our friends want to make Pakistan desist fromthis, they are most welcome to make their contribution. That remains our clear position. 

How much cooperation do you think India has been able to get from other SAARC countries and Asiancountries in its struggle against terrorism which it says is coming from across the Line of Control?

Yashwant Sinha: In my travels to these countries, whenever occasion has arisen I have explained our position.In SAARC, in Kathmandu, we have adopted a statement on terrorism in the SAARC region. That statement iscompletely to our satisfaction. We have also decided that we will adopt an additional protocol on terrorism inthis region to supplement the Convention on Terrorism which already is in existence to incorporate the latesttrends, developments and thinking with regard to terrorism. So, I think there is a very clear understandingabout the threat of terrorism, the danger of terrorism and a determination to meet that challenge. 

You have said that there was a contradiction in the statements of Gen.Musharraf. Do you believe that this contradiction in his statement is tactical, or do you feel somehelplessness in Musharraf? Secondly, there are different versions coming from Islamabad. One says that theyhave rejected India’s proposal for joint patrolling of the LoC. Another says, their Spokesman says, thatthey are yet to receive any Indian offer in black and white.

Yashwant Sinha: There is nothing that Gen.Musharraf does which is not tactical. Given his background, he is tactical in all his moves. And that often, Ihave no hesitation in saying, detracts from the seriousness of the moves that he makes. As far as jointpatrolling is concerned, it is an offer which has been made. If they show any seriousness about discussingthis offer, then further discussions at whatever level is necessary can be made. 

But the basic concept isclear. I mean there should be no ambiguity as far as the basic joint patrolling. Joint patrolling in simpleEnglish language means, joint patrolling. So, they cannot be ambivalent about it and they cannot say that wemust have a proposal or a written suggestion from India or anything of that kind. I think they have to make uptheir mind. But I would like to make one point to you. I think we have spent half-an-hour discussing Pakistan.There are other countries and issues in the world also. 

Your words today suggest that India is a slightly put off by this international and especially American standon cross border terrorism. Do you think that the war against terrorism which began after September 11 is stilla very united war or is it now splitting?

Yashwant Sinha: It is a united war but it also depends on eachcountry’s understanding of the terrorist threat. 

I would just like to ask youregarding Indian stand on Iraq. You have made it very clear that you are opposing any military action by theUnited States on Iraq. Does this figure in your discussion with the American counterpart? Will this Indianstand change in these days or will it stand as it is?

Yashwant Sinha: Indian stand on this is not new.Indian stand represents the consistency in our policy. Indian stand is not going to change in the next fewdays or few weeks. We are very clear that there should be no armed action against any country, moreparticularly with the avowed purpose of changing a regime. 

I want to knowwhat are your expectations from elections in Jammu and Kashmir as far as the world community is concerned andas far as the stand-off with Pakistan is concerned.

Yashwant Sinha: I think the most important concernthat we have is that election should be held in peaceful atmosphere and in a free and fair manner and shouldprovide an opportunity to the people of Jammu and Kashmir to express their popular will. That is the purposeof this election. Elections are not taking place in Jammu and Kashmir for the first time. They are in a seriesand they should be looked at as one more opportunity for the people of Jammu and Kashmir to express theirpreference. 

As far as Pakistan is concerned, they have made their point of view clear already. In the 14thAugust speech the President of Pakistan has given vent to his feelings. And so, we expect nothing as far asthese elections are concerned from Pakistan. As far as the international community is concerned, they havesome concerns and I hope by the time the elections are conducted and they are over and the results are out,they will be more than satisfied with the fact that the concerns have been taken on board. 

Sinha sahab, a report appeared a few days ago that plans are afoot toconduct terrorist activities against India through Bangladesh. During your visit to Bangladesh, did youdiscuss this issue with the leadership of Bangladesh?

Yashwant Sinha: In all the discussions that I heldwith the leadership of Bangladesh this issue came up, and they said that the territory of Bangladesh will notbe allowed to be misused for terrorism, that they have taken precautions not to let this happen.

Next year Pakistan is going to take over the Chairmanship of SAARC. Is India going toattend the SAARC Summit next time?

Yashwant Sinha: Already our Ministers have attended meetings of SAARCin Islamabad. There are at least two occasions in recent past. One was the meeting of the Ministers ofInformation and Broadcasting and our colleague from India went for that meeting. The other was a meeting inIslamabad on poverty alleviation and the Deputy-Chairman of the Planning Commission, Mr. Pant had attendedthat meeting from India. 

So, attending SAARC meetings on Pakistan soil has not held us back. We have gone outand attended those meetings. Therefore, as I have said earlier, we have to make a distinction between SAARCand India and Pakistan. Attending a meeting in Islamabad for SAARC, for any purpose of SAARC including theSummit is quite a different thing than going on a bilateral visit to Pakistan. 

I am on a visit here and I am very happy to meet you. I could not follow what you said in regardto the question on Bangladesh as it was all in Hindi. Can you tell us the outcome of your visit to Nepal andBangladesh, particularly specific issues you discussed with Bangladesh?

Yashwant Sinha: In your country Ihave extensively interacted with the press on practically every occasion and after every meeting. The questionwhich was asked here was whether I raised the issue of ISI and other such organizations operating out ofBangladesh against India. My reply to that was that this question indeed had come up in our discussions and Ihave been assured by the leadership in Bangladesh that they will not allow the territory of Bangladesh to beused for any terrorist activity against India, in fact, also against any criminal activity against India.