'I Don't Have A Roadmap'

Interview by GEO TV with the US Deputy Secretary of State at the Residence of the U.S. Ambassador Islamabad,Pakistan

Question: We will talk to the Deputy Secretary of State, Mr. Richard D. Armitage. Thank you, Sir. Welcome to ourprogram.

Richard Armitage: Good evening. I'm delighted to be back in Pakistan.

Question: First of all, we would like to know the aims and objectives of your visit.

Richard Armitage: Well, first of all it's to sort of set things for President Musharraf's visit toWashington with President Bush, and to discuss the next steps in our bilateral relationship, a relationshipwhich we are both proud of and very desirous of extending. Secondarily, it's to discuss the regional situationand, of course, the new developments with India. And, third, to discuss some of the aspects of Pakistan'schairmanship of the U.N. Security Council this month.

Question: So how was your meeting with President Musharaf?

Richard Armitage: Well, it was 90 minutes, and I won't speak for him, but I was very delighted; wecovered an awful lot of ground.

Question: And have you discussed the recent peace initiatives taken by India and Pakistan?

Richard Armitage: Well, of course. We discussed both Prime Minister Jumali's call to Delhi and PrimeMinister's Vajpay's far-reaching statement in Srinigar.

Question: Sir, recently, U.S. has given a roadmap for the solution of Palestine problem. Do you have any roadmap forthe solution of Kashmir problem?

Richard Armitage: No, I don't have a roadmap. We've often said that this is a problem to be solvedbetween the two parties and a dialogue between the two parties, and that is our view. If we can be helpful insort of setting the atmosphere surrounding that, then we're delighted to do so.

Question: Could you define a statement which was given by many people in Pakistan outside Pakistan, solution of theKashmir problem by 2004.

Richard Armitage: I don't know who said that. This has been a problem that has been around sincePartition. And we would love a solution as soon as possible, but I don't think putting any artificial timeframe on it is beneficial, and I don't know who made that statement.

Question: Some ministers in Pakistan, Mr. Karl Inderfurth, many people.

Richard Armitage: Said it would be resolved by 2004?

Question: Yes.

Richard Armitage: Well, I notice they're not directly involved in these discussions.

Question: OK.

Richard Armitage: The parties themselves will resolve it; they'll determine the timetable -- not anyAmerican.

Question: Do we need fresh U.N. resolutions on Kashmir?

Richard Armitage: I think we need a lot of things in the United Nations Security Council. I don'tknow that new resolutions on Kashmir are particularly helpful. I think the elements of a discussion have beenentered into by India and Pakistan with the recent initiatives, and I'm cautiously optimistic that we may beseeing the beginning of a process.

Question: What do you think? Do you think that the LOC can become a permanent border between India and Pakistan?

Richard Armitage: This is not for me to decide. This is a question for the parties themselves todecide, and that's long been our position.

Question: Sir, this is a London Times story in my hands. This story says that Richard Armitage is playing a role offirefighter between India and Pakistan. Would you like to comment on this story?

Richard Armitage: Well, I'm the son of a policeman, actually. I have very little affiliation withfirefighters. And I don't think that's my role, and I think my role right now is to develop to the farthestpossible extent the U.S.-Pakistan bi-lateral relationship, and I'm trying my best to do that.

Question: Some people are saying that you played a very important role behind the scenes in the recent peaceinitiatives taken by India and Pakistan.

Richard Armitage: Well, I think that all credit should be given to the two parties. I think thatthose who are quickest to claim credit are probably the least deserving of it. So I think the two partiesthemselves are the ones who deserve the credit.

Question: And will you tell us on what grounds the U.S. State Department announced Hizbul Mujahadin a terroristorganization?

Richard Armitage: On what grounds we announced it?

Question: Yes.

Richard Armitage: We have a very rigorous process where we look at statements, violence, funding, allsorts of things and come to a determination on who is a foreign terrorist organization, and the criteria weremet.

Question: Are you satisfied by the steps taken by Prime Minister of Pakistan Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali fornormalizing the relations between India and Pakistan?

Richard Armitage: Well, again I don't think I like the way you ask the question about whether anAmerican is satisfied. The question would be whether Pakistani citizens are satisfied and whether the Indiangovernment is satisfied that these are conducive to a reaction from their part. For my part, as I say, I amcautiously optimistic that we're seeing the beginning of a process.

Question: What transpired during your meeting with Mr. Birjash Mishra in London?

Richard Armitage: Well, I had a very interesting hour and a half lunch with Mr. Mishra, where wediscussed not only his upcoming trip to Washington, but the general state of U.S.-Indian relations andIndian-Pakistani relations. And I heard him out on his views representing his government, but the very natureof diplomatic contacts is that they are private, and thus they will remain private.

Question: And will you tell us something about your meeting with the DG-ISI in Washington?

Richard Armitage: Well, I've had the honor of meeting General Ehsan several times, and I was mostdesirous of seeing him during his recent Washington visit. And we discussed certainly the situation inAfghanistan, the situation in India, and I also described for him some of our activities in Iraq and thelatest information that we were receiving from Iraq.

Question: And are you satisfied with the role of Pakistan against Al Qaeda and Taliban?

Richard Armitage: Pakistan has been absolutely magnificent. Brave law enforcement personnel, bravemilitary personnel, who, in my view, do great credit to this nation.

Question: There are some reports in some of the U.S. newspapers, the Indian newspapers, they're raising someobjections about the role of ISI. What do you think about the role of ISI?

Richard Armitage: Well, again this is an organization which has been very important to Pakistanhistorically, has been peopled, as far as I know, by very excellent officers and enlisted men. And again, thisis something for Pakistanis to decide if they are satisfied with the role. I've had excellent relations overthe years, more than 20 years with ISI.

Question: And this organization these days is helpful for you?

Richard Armitage: Well, it's helpful for the nation of Pakistan. It's not helpful for the UnitedStates; certainly ISI is not working for us, but many times in their duties for the nation of Pakistan, wefind that Pakistan's interest and the United States' interests coincide, therefore it is helpful to us.

Question: And what do you think about the latest situation in Afghanistan? Some people say that Osama bin Laden isstill alive.

Richard Armitage: Well, I don't know if he's alive or not, but the situation in Afghanistan is adifficult and complex one. And one of the reasons I'm going to travel to Kabul is to make a dramaticdemonstration of the fact that the United States can do two things at the same time. We can be involved inIraq very heavily; we can be involved in Afghanistan very heavily and for the long-term, and that's what I'mgoing to try to impress upon President Karzai and his colleagues.

Question: Some days ago there was a big demonstration against America in Kabul. What do you think: who is organizingthese kinds of anti-American demonstrations inside Kabul?

Richard Armitage: My understanding was that there was a demonstration some days ago in Kabul. It wasmuch smaller than you perhaps indicate, and it was primarily related to making sure that those people whodemonstrated received their pay. And I have no doubt that the situation is being corrected. I don't know who'sorganizing it, but they're probably dissatisfied people who haven't gotten paid.

Question: And now I would like to talk something about Iraq. Some people are saying that, especially the Americannewspapers, that Iran is still interfering in Iraq and maybe the United States will be forced to do somethingagainst Iran. Would you like to comment on these kind of words?

Richard Armitage: Well, clearly Iran has interest in particularly the southern part of Iraq, but howshe presents her interests is of great interest to us. Iran is not on any list of the United States; no one issuggesting any use of military force on Iran. The Secretary of Defense has said so, the Secretary of State ofthe United States has said so. So we'll continue our activities in Iraq. We're doing those thingstransparently; we wish no harm to anyone else. We just want to see an Iraq which has a very bright future forthe 24 million citizens who live there.

Question: And what about the role of Syria?

Richard Armitage: Well, Syria is in a very difficult position. I think that the geopoliticallandscape changed for Damascus very quickly with the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime. There's now only oneBaath Party, for instance. Secretary Powell recently traveled to Damascus to let our Syrian friends know aboutthe new geostrategic situation and indicate to Syria that they have to make a choice whether they want to takepart in the community of nations in a helpful way, to stop any activities that might support Saddam Hussein'sfleeing officials, etc, get away from weapons of mass destruction, close down terrorist operations. And we'llsee if Syria paid attention to those comments of Secretary Powell.

Question: And do you have any indication that whether Saddam Hussein is alive or not?

Richard Armitage: Well, I don't know if he's alive or if his sons are alive or not. I know one thingfor sure: he's not in power and every day that passes, the people gain more and more confidence that thatterrible regime is on the dustbin of history.

Question: Thank you, Sir

Richard Armitage: Thank you, very well done.