'We Have To Recognize The Potential For Collateral Damage'

Sattar: Ladies and gentlemen of the media, the U.S. secretary of defenseon arrival told us that he is on a leisurely trip to five countries over theweekend. But let me say that President Pervez Musharraf and the members of thedelegation that have had the privilege of listening to the secretary of defenseare delighted that he found time during his whirlwind tour to come and havetalks with us.

I wish particularly to recall that when I went to Washington in June, thesecretary of defense did me the honor of receiving me at the Pentagon and Idetected in him a person who remembers the decade of the 1980's when our twocountries were very closely cooperating on an issue of world importance. Morethan that, we get the feeling that he shares, that Mr. Rumsfeld shares, ourhopes for the resuscitation of our cooperation on a durable basis.

President Pervez Musharraf and Secretary Rumsfeld have exchanged informationand views on the situation in Afghanistan. They also discussed the desirabilityof evolving a political strategy on a fast track so as to facilitate therealization of the objectives of the U.N. Security Council resolutions in asshort a time as possible. The formation of a broad-based multi-ethnic governmentthrough a home-grown process under the aegis of the United Nations appearsindispensable for bringing the travail of the people of Afghanistan to an earlyend. Keeping in view of the interests of the people of Afghanistan, such agovernment would implement the U.N. Security Council resolutions.

President Musharraf also underlined the need for continuation of humanitarianrelief for the distressed Afghan people inside their own country so as to reducethe displacement of Afghans outside their country. Secretary Rumsfeld recalledthat the U.S. is the largest donor for relief of Afghans inside and outside thecountry.

Let me conclude by saying that we regard Secretary Rumsfeld's visit toIslamabad as an important step in the development of cooperation and deepeningof goodwill between Pakistan and the United States. With these few words I handover the mike to the Honorable Donald Rumsfeld.

Rumsfeld: Mr. Minister, thank you very much. I certainly appreciate thosegenerous remarks. It's a pleasure to be back in Pakistan after a good manyyears. I used to travel here as a businessman and it certainly is a delight tosee you after our visit in Washington, D.C.

As the minister indicated, the president and his senior officials and ourdelegation had a very wide-ranging discussion. We did indeed talk a good dealabout the importance of humanitarian relief in Afghanistan and the very seriousplight of the Afghan people that has been brought about by the Taliban and theal Qaeda conflicts.

The determination that we have as a country in the United States toaggressively root out the terrorists that have killed so many thousands ofpeople and who are threatening to kill so many thousands more. The president ofthe United States is determined on this matter. He will see it through and letthere be no doubt about that.

We as a country and I as an individual and a government official very muchvalue the relationship with Pakistan; the cooperative way that they haveapproached the battle against terrorism and the assistance that they haveprovided. We recognize it, we appreciate it, and along with the dozens anddozens of countries across the globe who share the concern about the terroristproblem in this world, I thank them and would be happy to respond to questions.

Q: President Musharraf has repeatedly talked about an excess of hope forsuspension of military operations, if they are not over, in the month ofRamadhan. Was this issue discussed today and what are your views on this?

Rumsfeld: I'm certainly aware of the views of the president of Pakistanand indeed the views of any number of countries across the globe. It is animportant question and certainly an issue that all of us are sensitive to. Thereality is that the threats of additional terrorist acts are there. They arecredible, they are real, and they offer the prospects of still thousands of morepeople being killed.

Our task is to certainly be sensitive to the views in the region, but also tosee that we aggressively deal with the terrorist networks that exist, and beyondthat, I would simply say that we do not really want to discuss precisely howwe're going to handle the period ahead other than to say that it is importantthat the terrorists be stopped.

Q: Mr. Rumsfeld, would you give us your assessment of the Taliban at thismoment as a military force and Mr. Sattar will you respond to the reportedremarks of Osama bin Ladin that Muslim leaders who cooperate with the UnitedNations are in someway infidels?

Sattar: Actually, Osama bin Ladin?

Q: Made a recorded statement on al-Jazeera yesterday saying that any Muslimleader who works with the UN is an infidel.

Sattar: Well, I can tell you the views of the government of Pakistan. Wehave ever since our independence attached the highest importance to the UnitedNations and we have always called for the implementation of the resolutions ofthe Security Council. You know the background to that. We attach greatimportance to the U.N. Security Council resolutions and anyone who does not ison the other side.

Rumsfeld: Taliban is not really functioning as a government as such.There really is not a government to speak of in Afghanistan today. As a militaryforce they have concentrations of power that exist. They have capabilities thatremain. They have tanks and anti-aircraft. They undoubtedly have some Stingersurface-to-air missiles and portable. They have weapons and they are using theirpower in enclaves throughout the country to impose their will on the Afghanpeople. They are not making major military moves if that is the import of yourquestion. They are pretty much in static positions. They are using mosques forammunition storage areas. They are using mosques for command and control andmeeting places. They are putting tanks and artillery pieces in close proximityto hospitals, schools, and residential areas. And they are actively lying aboutcivilian casualties taking place in the country. I think that probably gives youa sense of what I have to say on the Taliban.

Sattar: May I just add one point. We have greatly valued the informationgiven to us by the secretary of defense of the United States that never inhistory has so much care been taken as at present by the United States to reducecivilian casualties to the minimum possible. And I think this statement isextremely valuable in view of the news that we see everyday alleging increasingcivilian casualties in Afghanistan.

Rumsfeld: May I just add one thought? It is always a shock to me to turnon the television and see a banner or a hear a voice saying that the UnitedStates is bombing Kabul or bombing Kandahar. That is not true. There is a lot ofordnance flying around in Afghanistan, let there be no doubt, and the UnitedStates is aggressively trying to go after the Taliban and the al Qaeda, andtheir military forces. And we intend to continue to do that. But the ordinanceis coming to be sure from the air down, it is also coming from the ground up andit is also coming from opposition forces fighting in certain locations aroundthe country with the Taliban.

When there is damage done, it is not always exactly clear what caused thedamage and to have pictures of artillery being fired in the air and sayingsomeone is bombing Kabul, the United States bombs military targets every time wecan find one, except when they're in close proximity to very densely populatedresidential areas, and then, of course, we have to recognize the potential forcollateral damage and so as the minister says, we have been as careful ashumanly possible. I don't think that ever in the history of the world has therebeen a bombing effort that has been done with the precision and the care and theattention to that issue.

Q: Mr. Minister, what concerns did you express to the United States about thebombing campaign in Afghanistan. Is Pakistan concerned that the U.S. has said itmight keep bombing through Ramadhan. Is Pakistan concerned about the closerelationship between the United States and the Northern Alliance?

Sattar: The president of Pakistan has very candidly shared with thesecretary the concern over reporting that we see in the media -- day in and dayout -- alleging increasing civilian casualties in Afghanistan and as I said Ianticipated your question and the secretary also has given you a very detailedanswer on the exceptional care that has been exercised by the United States tospare and prevent civilian casualties.

Q: But sir, on the question, the president of Pakistan has said he would likethis to end quickly. The U.S. has said there is going to be bombing as long asit takes. Is there a common opinion?

Sattar: No, I think the secretary was already aware before he landed inIslamabad about the remark that the president of Pakistan has made namely thatthe military campaign should be reduced to a time as short as possibleconsistent with the realizations of the objectives. And that is the position; hewas already aware. We did not therefore go into any great detail.

Rumsfeld: And I can assure you that's the position of the United Statesof America. We would like to see it end as quickly as possible, too. There is noone who favors a long process. We need to do what needs to be done. We'reaggressively trying to do what needs to be done and we intend to end up havingdone what needs to be done.

Q: Mr. Minister, is Pakistan concerned about the Northern Alliance gainingcontrol in Afghanistan? And, if so, can you characterize that concern?

Sattar: For the sake of stability in Afghanistan it is extremelyimportant that the government in that country should be broad-based,multi-ethnic and representative of the demography of Afghanistan. I think thesecretary will perhaps wish to say a few things on this point but my perceptionon the basis of the conversations that have been held today is that the UnitedStates too seeks to support the process for the formation of a broad-based,multi-ethnic government under the aegis of the United Nations.

Rumsfeld: That is exactly correct. That is the position of the UnitedStates of America. Secretary Powell has addressed this; President Bush hasaddressed it; a U.S. representative, Mr. Richard Haass, Ambassador Haass, hasbeen designated to work with the U.N. to work with the neighboring countries, towork with the interests within Afghanistan, the non-Taliban, non-al-Qaedainterests and to find away that out of that process can come a government thatwould be broadly based and that would be not willing to harbor terrorists and totry to terrorize either their neighbors, their people, or the rest of the world.

Sattar: The Secretary is traveling in telescope time, so one morequestion.

Q: (Partially audible) President Pervez Musharraf has said that there arethree strategies: a military strategy, a political strategy, and arehabilitation and reconstruction strategy. How prepared America is to carry outthat rehabilitation strategy?

Rumsfeld: To carry out the other two pieces of the strategy? Yes, thereis no question. The United States was the largest donor of food before September11 terrorist attack on New York and Washington at something like 170 milliondollars prior to September 11. The president of the United States has alreadyannounced 320 million dollar humanitarian effort for Afghanistan even though theterrorists and the Taliban are still involved.

There is no question but that the United States as a country that cares aboutthe Afghan people and wants to see the circumstance of those people improved,would be a willing partner in a post-Taliban rehabilitation process.

Sattar: One sentence I wish to add that the president of Pakistan hasalso apprised Secretary Rumsfeld of our concerns with reference to Kashmir andalso informed him of the stringent measures that have taken by the government ofPakistan to insure custodial security of our strategic assets. Thank you verymuch.

Rumsfeld: Thank you.