'Pakistan Is Becoming More Fundamentalist'

Lahore-based Mubarak Ali is a leading Pakistani scholar and activist. He has taught History at theUniversity of Sind, and is presently the editor of the Urdu quarterly Tarikh. He talked to Yoginder Sikand onIslam and militancy in contemporary Pakistan.

What do you feel about the current talk of madrasas emerging as centres of 'terrorism' in Pakistan?

Much of this talk is exaggerated, I must admit. On the whole, the madrasas create narrow-minded, sectarianstudents but not terrorists. Not all the Afghan Taliban were madrasa-educated. They also included young peopleeducated in modern schools or colleges. They were influenced by the television, radio, newspapers andtextbooks. During the Russian occupation of Afghanistan, the Americans motivated madrasa students to engage inarmed jihad and prepared for them special textbooks which glorified 'holy war'. Then, when Mulla Omar tookpower in Afghanistan, he encouraged the madrasa students to come to his help. During this period they weremilitarily trained and fought for the new regime in Afghanistan.

How can madrasas be suitably reformed?

In Pakistan even the modern educational system is like the madrasas as far as the curriculum is concerned.The only way out is to radically change and reform the curriculum and introduce the teaching of socialsciences. Instead of doing this, our government is focusing on the introduction of the natural sciences in themadrasa syllabus and is also providing them computers. I think this is a useless exercise. It is the socialsciences that make people to think and helps them open their minds, not the natural sciences.

What are your views on how the Musharraf government has gone about dealing with the madrasas?

The Musharraf government lacks a proper vision as far as education is concerned. Musharraf is trying toplease both the Americans as well as the mullahs. He is attempting to register the madrasas, but this is beingresisted by the mullahs and he has no courage to defy them. I think that the best way out of the dilemma is toestablish faculties of theology at the college and university levels and to abolish the madrasa systemaltogether.

What are your reflections on the possibilities in Pakistan today of developing new ways of understandingIslam to seriously take into account issues such as democracy, human rights, women's rights, religiouspluralism etc.?

As I see it, day by day Pakistan is becoming more fundamentalist. In the beginning the state wasfundamentalist but now the wider society has become increasingly fundamentalist. Every mullah is free to issueany fatwa he wants. Rich people in Pakistan prefer to give donations to a madrasa or a mosque rather than toan organization working for social development. Dictatorship and 'feudal democracy' have disappointed thepeople, and economic hardship and social problems are forcing them to take refuge in religion. There is littlehope for a real people's democracy in Pakistan today. The Army is powerful and has increased in size,consuming more and more of the country's resources, leaving little for the people. As the nature of state haschanged in accordance with the interests of the ruling classes, there is shocking lack of respect for humanrights. State institutions treat people as subjects and not citizens. In such a situation, in a backwardsociety, the interpretation of religion is also backward. In presence of Hudood ordinance, women are deniedtheir rights. The religious minorities are often made victims of the blasphemy law. There is little effortbeing made to develop new Islamic perspectives on issues of contemporary concern.

What are your views on the current relations between Muslims and the West, and on the emergence ofIslamist radicalism?

There are several complex reasons for the emergence of Islamist radicalism and anti-West feelings amonglarge sections of the Muslim community. What has happened, and is still happening, to the Muslims in Bosnia,Kosovo, Chechnya, Palestine and Kashmir etc. has convinced people that there is a conspiracy against theMuslims by the Christians, Jews and the Hindus. And so, growing numbers of Muslims feel that the way out is toadopt the path of 'holy war', turning their backs on dialogue. Widespread poverty and economic backwardness isanother reason, leading to the feeling of extreme helplessness among many Muslims. Acts of violence providethem some 'satisfaction' that they can terrify even their powerful 'enemies'.

Yoginder Sikand is currently engaged in a post-doctoral research at the International Institute for the study of Islam in the modern world, Leiden, the Netherlands. He also edits a website on related issues.