"Hatred Against America Growing Among Afghans"

Iqbal Khatak, an eminent journalist and the representative of the Paris-based "Reporters SansFrontiers" (RSF) in Pakistan, is considered an authority on Afghanistan. Khattak reported the War AgainstTerror and Loya Jirga to both international and national media. In an exclusive interview with Amna Khaishgi,Khattak shares his experiences in Afghanistan. Excerpts:

How do you define the present Afghanistan?

Present Afghanistan presents new problems for its people and the region. Today's Afghanistan is facing amore explosive situation than before because the democratic world went against basic norms of democracy. Thegulf between majority Pukhtoon ethnic group and minority Uzbeks and Tajiks is widening because of theundemocratic sectarian demands before the Loya Jirga. The Afghan story is not over yet. Future of that countryseems as bleak as the future of al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

Can we expect the return of Taliban?

I don't think that Afghanistan will witness what it experienced during September 1996 and November 2001.But if the international community fails to deliver what it promised in Tokyo Conference -- to rebuild thecountry with massive financial pledges -- Afghanistan may experience another form of Taliban-like rule.

The Afghan people were really fed up with certain policies of the Taliban regime. Afghans cannot livewithout music, which the Taliban banned. However, I fear, if majority Pukhtoon ethnic group, more than 50percent of total Afghanistan population, continues to suffer in the wake of the US-imposed undemocraticsectarian demands, allowing a minority group to dominate the transitional authority things may take adangerous shape.

Afghan Pukhtoons may be forced to think seriously about their future course of action. And whatever happensthen ... you may call it "Taliban-like" situation, but with a different shape and approach. Somepolitical parties in Pakistan have made the plight of Afghan Pukhtoons an election issue to exploit popularsentiments that Pukhtoons on Pakistan side hold for the Afghan Pukhtoons.

How is Loya Jirga working in Afghanistan? Has it brought social and political changes?

Loya Jirga is a key component of Afghan tradition. The Afghan people resolve their political problems whenconsensus is difficult to reach at center or provincial level. The Emergency Loya Jirga in June this year wasa success from a narrow perspective. However, unwarranted interference from the Americans blocked thedemocratic norms to make democratic decisions.

I was in Kabul during the Loya Jirga and I have heard a number of participants who were openly criticizing'interference' from outside the world's largest white-colored tent. The Loya Jirga, if free from outsidedictation, is more than a true example of Afghans' way of democracy. Majority vote is accepted and decisionstaken promptly.

I think the Emergency Loya Jirga was a golden chance to give real representatives of the people a chance tospeak out and take decisions on their own. We have experienced that past Jirgas never failed because ofnon-interference from the outside world.

Americans lost a good opportunity to rid the country of warlords. As they still need the warlords to huntfor al-Qaeda or Taliban operatives. Afghanistan is still in danger of sinking into a deeper crisis once ISAFforces go back and no central authority is established till that time. Worst form of anarchy may visit theAfghan people, who have suffered a lot for a long time.

Where does Hamid Karzai stand in the present Afghan political system? Will he have any future in theAfghan political structure?

Karzai stands absolutely nowhere as far as Afghan political system is concerned. He is totally banking onthe US support.

The assassination of his vice-president Haji Abdul Qadir, a Pukhtoon Afghan leader from eastern Nangarharprovince, on July 6, forced Karzai to ask for American commandos-led protection. It shows his insecurity amongall-powerful warlords, particularly from Northern Alliance.

During the Loya Jirga, Karzai enjoyed considerable support from his people. People considered him as thehope because he has good ties with Hindus (India), Shias (Iran), Sunnis (Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and other Gulfcountries) and goras (reference is to to Europeans and Americans) which can help Afghanistan pull outof years-long war and destruction.

However that support seems to have disappeared. Majority Pakhtoons have now started considering that he isstill under the Panjshiris' influence and real power rests with the Northern Alliance. Many Afghans think thathe did not take care of his ethnic group members. Remember Karzai is also a Pukhtoon from southern Kandaharprovince. His future heavily depends on what he delivers to his people.

We know US bombardment to target Pukhtoons only and many Afghans are mincing no words to criticize hissilence. How do you define the present psychology of the Afghan nation? Will they be able to survive in thisera of globalization?

A decade-long freedom war against Russia and as long a civil strife has broken the Afghans psychologically,politically and financially. They are psychologically very weak at the moment. They don't know what is goingto happen to them and their country. What they know is Afghanistan is doomed to plunge into factional fightingif post-Taliban transitional government does not rise above factions and ethnic background.

They are not much bothered about globalization. Their main worry is possible return of anarchy and hungerto Afghanistan. The slow-moving international community's contribution may add to their woes.

Do you think War Against Terror in Afghanistan was justified? What marks that has left on Afghanistan?

If you call bombing a wedding party or innocent civilians a war on terrorism then I'm afraid you have apsychological problem and you must consult a psychiatrist.

I don't know how much the Western world or the American people are aware of the fact as to how and wherethese terrorists were trained, or who, indeed, they were. A poor man from a poor country in Asia would find itdifficult to get a visa for any European country or the US, but a millionaire terrorist can get it very easilyand join any flying club in the States; thanks to capitalism.

We are punishing innocent Afghans for the crime that they did not commit. The Americans and their allieshave so far killed around 1,000 innocent Afghan civilians. The death toll may be high. Osama was America'sdarling when he was spending his own money to recruit mercenaries to fight the Russians. Taliban wereacceptable to the Americans when they appeared ready to help Unicol and other big US petroleum companies.

When the Taliban stopped listening to the outer world's dictations they all of a sudden became the worstenemy of human beings. My criticism of the US-led war on terrorism does not mean I support the Taliban regime.I have my own reservations regarding their way of ruling their people.

Believe me, hatred against the Americans is fast growing among the Afghans. Only warlords are happy withthe American forces because they receive dollars and arms in return for their support to the war on terrorism.These warlords use the war to punish own rivals because of tribal rivalry.

The American forces never verified any intelligence information, which resulted in bombing of innocentcivilians. Will the US government tell the world how many al-Qaeda or Taliban operatives have been killed orarrested so far? Does it not underline the failure of this "war" that the prime suspect Osama binLaden and supreme Taliban leader Mullah Muhammad Omar are at large even?

The marks of the war are very deep and much time will be needed to heal these wounds.

How do Afghanis see Bin Laden now?

Afghans know little about Laden. They had little interaction with him nor did he mix with ordinary Afghans.At the moment, the Afghans are more concerned about real peace than anything else. Afghans never likeoutsiders, be they Muslims or non-Muslims. They don't like to see foreigners in their country as occupyingforce. The Russian invasion is the latest example.

Many Afghans believe the Taliban were not that bad a people but that Laden-led Arabs were forcing them totake harsher decisions, like ban on girls' education, women's employment, music, TV and destruction of Buddhastatues in Bamiyan.

So, I don't think there is any soft corner for Laden among the Afghans. Yes, if maltreatment of Pukhtoonethnic group continues it may help the remnants of Taliban and al-Qaeda increase their support in the Afghansociety.

Are madarsas and fanatic clergy still powerful in Afghanistan?

Sans guns, I think. But with guns they are powerful and will be.

If you take away guns from former mujahideen leaders, clergy's power will be dramatically reduced.Traditionally, madrasas in both Pakistan and Afghanistan are main source of education among the poor people'schildren. But in early 1980s the madrasas were radicalized and militancy was introduced in these madrasaswhere previously only Islamic teachings were taught.

State patronage to the clergy made them all-powerful. If you end the state patronage then see how strongthe clergy is.

Does the word Jihad still vibrate in Afghanistan?

The Afghans can do whatever they can for the sake of Islam. They demonstrated it when the Russians invadedtheir country. We know petro-dollars and US-made weapons were also key factors behind the Russians' retreat,but all this was not possible without the Afghan people's great sacrifices.

The Loya Jirga very strongly experienced Jihadi vibrations when the Kandahar governor, Gul Agha Sherzai,was speaking against Taliban and those who use Islam for vested interests. "Go away," all theparticipants, shouted at him and the strong Kandahar governor left his speech incomplete.

In underdeveloped world, religion can be easily exploited. And Afghanistan is the world's poorest state!The word jihad is frequently being used in Afghanistan these days to eliminate poverty and illiteracy. TheAfghan leaders are using the word because it is more attractive than other slogans.

Issues of women in Afghanistan has been a major concern for the West. How do you see the issue? What isthe present status of Women in Afghanistan? Are they participating in national development?

The Afghan women must be saluted for their courage while facing horrible time for the last 23 years. Ithink they suffered the most under communists, mujahideen and Taliban rules.

To see girls back in schools, and women at jobs does not mean everything is OK with the status of women inpost-Taliban Afghanistan. However, the Taliban ouster gave the women a new hope that their position will getstrengthened with active support from international women organizations.

We know Dr Masooda Jalal contested the presidential election during the Loya Jirga to challenge HamidKarzai. I think the women still have miles to go to achieve a respected place in the ultra-conservative Afghansociety. They need more hard work to get recognition from the male-dominated Afghan society.

They want to participate in national development provided they are allowed. There are only one or twofemale ministers in Karzai transitional cabinet, although women percentage in total Afghan population is morethan 50 percent. The west concern about women, also, appears, at times, ridiculous.

During the Taliban rule, they said women were forced to wear burqa. That is true. But it also said Afghanwomen do not like burqa at all, which is not true. You see many women in Kabul walking in burqa. We ought torespect every religion and different traditions in different societies.

Do you think NGOs like RAWA and other national and international organizations are performing theirduties responsibly?

I don't agree with the way some Afghan and foreign NGOs work for women because they try to ignore groundreality. RAWA now demands "a secular democracy" in Afghanistan. Is this possible? I can bet thiswill never happen. It may happen if you eliminate the whole Afghan nation.

These NGOs, I think, are more interested in westernizing the Afghan women than educating and improvingtheir living standard and earning them their due rights in the society.

To bring change in Afghan women status in their society the NGOs need to respect Islamic values and localtraditions.

How do you rate the status of the present Afghan media and its contribution?

I worked closely on Afghan media since 1998. I am representative of Paris-based media watchdog organizationReporters Sans Frontiers (RSF) in Pakistan. During my visit to Kabul in June this year, I found thepost-Taliban Afghan media struggling to ensure press freedom in the country; a development, which was neverseen in the past. But much work is needed to make the Afghan media professional as it is divided on ethniclines and lacks professional approach.

At the moment, there are more than 100 publications, mostly weekly papers and magazines. Some NGOs arefunding many newspapers. But the question is will these publications be able to stand on their own feet? Thisis a serious question I doubt they will. Many publications will vanish once foreign funding is stopped andsince there are no economic activities to make money through commercial advertisement, many weeklies willcollapse on account of financial crisis.

Above all, the Afghan media is still under threat from warlords and the UN-backed government. A KabulWeekly journalist told me that his newspaper has received threats from the government for its independenteditorial policy. Moreover, the Afghan media has not gone out of Kabul city. It must reach out to otherprovinces also.

I have gone through some magazine like monthly Zanbel-e-Gham (humor and cartoon-based magazine),which are quite impressive and make great contribution for a peaceful Afghanistan.

Have you seen the return of Afghan diaspora to the country? Are they contributing to nationaldevelopment?

More than 200 members of Afghan diaspora have so far returned to Afghanistan. Among them are InteriorMinister Taj Muhammad Wardak and Finance Minister Ashraf Ghani and many more.

A UK-based NGO International Organization for Migration (IOM) is planning a Return of QualifiedAfghans (RQA) programme to help more Afghan professionals return to Afghanistan, following a new 1.4million US dollars contribution from the British government's Department for International Development (DFID).

However, hundreds of Afghan professionals in Europe, Australia, the US, and Scandinavian countries areunwilling to come back to their country mainly because of security reasons and uncertain political situationin Afghanistan.

What role are international forces playing in Afghanistan? Do they enjoy both public and governmentsupport?

The UN-mandated International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) is mainly providing security in the Kabulcity only. The international forces generally are doing a great job by helping the people of Kabul to feelsecure. Curfew timing has been reduced by one hour. But if you talk to politically conscious people they say,"Afghans should be allowed to decide by their own."

What role has Pakistan played in Afghanistan? What it its present status?

Pakistan role has been determined by the US. In simple words, there is not much difference in the Pakistanand the US policy towards Afghanistan. If you ask a similar question from the US and whatever is the reply Ithink the same can be applied on Pakistan as far as its role in Afghanistan is concerned.

What is the status of Pakistan prisoners and Jihadis in Afghanistan? What measures are the twogovernments taking for their rehabilitation? Are they still eager to continue their Jihad against the West?

Hundreds of Pakistani prisoners are still under detention, either with the Afghan government or localwarlords. Pakistan took up their detention with the Karzai administration and Kabul set free more than 300prisoners who were not hardened Jihadis or members of al-Qaeda network.

I spoke to a number of such prisoners in Peshawar upon their release and they did not seem to regret havinggone for jihad. They say they will again go anywhere in the world if a call for jihad is made.

How do you see the future of Afghanistan?

I am not quite hopeful if one looks at present Afghanistan. There is still confusion and you don't knowwhat will happen. Even the Afghans are faced with similar problems and that is what preventing them fromcoming back to their country. Pakistan hosts still more than two million refugees from Afghanistan and thereare many more in the Europe and America.

Amna Khaishgi is Assistant Editor, Peacemonger.com and a free lance journalist from Pakistan