'Cautiously Optimistic'

Surprise move
The Indian move came as a surprise and General Musharraf, who has consistently called fortalks, said he could not explain India's unconditional offer of a dialogue, but heapplauded it.

Vajpayee
I really appreciate, give credit to Prime Minister Vajpayee for his statesmanship, hisvision and his courage and boldness towards accepting a reality and starting to address anissue which has bedevilled relations between our two countries. So I really sincerelyappreciate whatever the Indian prime minister has done.

Historic Visit
I hope it is historic. I go with an open mind to make it historic but certainly theultimate outcome depends on the initiation of the dialogue, the outcome of the dialoguewill prove whether we are moving towards a historic direction or not.

On Visiting Delhi:
He would like to visit his old home in Delhi if he gets an opportunity to do so, he said."I would like to if afforded opportunity. It is not a primary issue but if i get anopportunity I would like to go and see it," he said when asked by the BBC whether hewould like to look up his old home in Delhi. He said he does not have many memories of hisstay in Delhi, where he was born, since he was too small.

Dates:
"We are proposing any dates after 20th, 25th, end of June or early next month,"he said
"I am available as soon as we arrive at mutually convenient date. We have to arriveat coordinating a date," he added.

Militants
Asked if he would tell Pakistan-based militants to scale back their activities in Jammuand Kashmir in the light of the invitation, he said "indeed one would like do that... whatever influence one can exert, it depends on dialogue."

However, he said the Indo-Pak dialogue has not even started and noted that the twocountries were trying to climb the first rung. "The dialogue process is being startedand the time has not yet come to make such an appeal."

He, however, said "mujahideen groups" were wrong in opposing his visit to NewDelhi and sought their support for efforts aimed at finding a solution to the Kashmirissue. "Let us start dialogue and let it start proceeding and all issues can beaddressed," he added

Dialogue
Replying to a question, he said finding a solution to problems between the two countriesis a "time-consuming process" and in this regard the first round parleys will bevery important."If both the sides demonstrated flexible attitude then it will be musheasier to continue this dialogue process and find a settlement to the Kashmirdispute," he said

"Both Pakistan and India have stated positions on the Kashmir issue, and one movestowards the resolution of the issue only when both sides show flexibility in their statedpositions," he added.

"This is the only way to move forward the talks process. We are going to New Delhiwith such intention," he said.

On Taliban:
About Pakistan's support to Taliban, he said, "we have diplomatic relations withthem. What happened to Buddha statues and hindus, we have options but that will not changeour strategic opinion."

"If anyone thinks that we exercise total command and control, it is wrong. We haverelations. We can engage on all issues but that does not mean that we can make them dowhat we want to," he said.

[Pakistan continues to be a major supporter of Taliban.However, fissures developedbetween the two allies over the steps initiated by Pakistan to push back hundreds ofAfghan refugees who, affected by civil war and drought had crossed the Pakistan border forrefuge.]

In a press release, the BBC offered the following transcripts of another interview:

One of the main sticking points in previous talks was Pakistan's insistence thatKashmir should be the focal point of any dialogue.  India has called for a compositedialogue on many issues.  How flexible can you be on discussing other topics as wellas Kashmir?

MUSHARRAF: Well certainly I am flexible.  I've been saying thatthe core issue is Kashmir and let there be no doubt in that.  But there are otherissues also and I have no reservations in discussing those.  What I have been sayingis that when we try to talk of other issues in an attempt to sideline the core issue, weshould not do that.  It is Kashmir that we ought to discuss, plus any other issue, Iam absolutely flexible yes, I would like to discuss all issues.

And how much room for compromise is there over the issue of Kashmir, would yoube prepared for example to make the line of control permanent or giving the Kashmirisindpendence if there were a plebiscite?

Well frankly I would like to deal with these issues when we confront them.  We'llcross the bridge when we arrive at them, we're going with a very open and flexible mind,and once the dialogue process starts and we start moving towards a solution, then we'lladdress these issues. 

The Indian government had previously said that you were the main architectbehind the fighting in Kargil.. do you think the fact they have now offered you thisinvitation to come to Delhi means that that lowpoint between the two countries has nowcome to an end?

Well I suppose so, I hope so, because as I've been saying our previous history is notvery peaceful, very attractive, why talk of Kargil? If you go a few years behind we arriveat Siachen also.. So that is all history and we need to move ahead, look ahead withoptimism.  I am looking ahead with cautious optimism, I would say.

This week is the anniversary of Pakistan's nuclear test and there have beengreat concerns that this area could be a nuclear flashpoint.  Would your talksinclude discussions on reducing or eliminating these weapons altogether?

Well, if India wants such a dialogue, we have been saying that yes, we could talk abouttotally de-nuclearising South Asia so if the Indian Prime Minister is interested, I wouldcertainly go ahead with him.  But let's not sideline again the main issue, all theseare secondary, it's the Kashmir issue which is the primary focus.

There's now widespread speculation in Pakistan that you could be the nextpresident.  Are you going to stay in on that role or any other role after theelections which have to take place by next October?

We haven't taken any such decision.  There are certain national interests whichhave to be kept in mind and that have to be ensured and these are obviously the continuityand sustainability of all the reforms and restructuring that we are doing.  Theensuring in the future that national interests are kept supreme over personal andpolitical interests, and also ensuring a better sharing of power between the power-brokersof the country, as I've been saying.  Towards this end, one has to see what is the
methodology or modality of achieving these objectives.  We haven't really decided onhow to achieve these objectives but these objectives have to be achieved, that is in theforefront of my mind.

In the past you've talked about this mechanism being a system of controls, ofchecks and balances, and some people have referred to this as a controlled democracy, butdon't you think any system of checks and balances contradicts the idea of a true democracy?

Unbridled power is not available to anyone, there are always checks and balances withinwhich every chief executive functions, and if he is not following those and if he isviolating those then there has to be a constitutional answer to correct the situation,correct those violations. That is what I'm talking of when I talk about checks andbalances.  In our environment, the unfortunate part has been that our chief executivehas been working against the national interest, for personal and political interest, sotherefore in our environment it is very important that this is not allowed, we have seenthis happening over the last ten years. We should not allow this to happen again, in thenational interest.

If the election is won by either of the main political parties, the PakistanMuslim League or the Pakistan People's Party,  and they decided to bring their exiledleaders back, Nawaz Sharif or Benazir Bhutto, would you hand over power to them?

Certainly I have no differences with these parties as such.  They are nationalparties, the PML and the People's Party, and therefore I have no problem with either oneof them winning the elections, that is no problem at all.  Our problem, or thenational problem, has been the issue of these two ex-prime ministers who have donewhatever they did in this decade of disaster that I keep calling it.  And certainlythey have to answer the nation for whatever they have done.  So whoever wants to comeback, they have to answer, to confront the nation and be accountable and answerable to thenation.  So to that extent we are very clear on their role - their role can only beafter they are held accountable for whatever misdeeds they did.

[While arrest warrants are pending against Bhutto, who has gone on a self-exile tobritain and the UAE, Sharif was exiled to Saudi Arabia after he was deposed and latersentenced for life -- ed]

Do you believe the true opposition in the country at the minute are currentlythe political parties or the religious, hardline parties?

Well again, I don't see much opposition to whatever reforms we are carrying out. I am very sure the people of Pakistan are for all these reforms and restructuring. Whatever abrasions are there, are minor, I would say.

Do you think it was a mistake to stop the political parties holding meetings,it gives them more publicity, a higher profile, and meanwhile the religious parties areallowed to hold their meetings which are in essence often political meetings as well.

No we don't allow any meetings to anyone.  And the meeting that we denied, the ARD[16-party Alliance for Restoration of Democracy]  meeting, certainly as I've beensaying we will not allow political activity outdoors, we have allowed political activityindoors...everybody is doing that.  We have even allowed political leaders to appearon the television live and say anything they like, and they have been doing that. But here going out on to the streets to an extent means hooliganism, breaking things,burning vehicles and this even by a few people is not what we desire at the moment, itshifts us from our main focus of bringing stability and economic viability toPakistan.  So whereas we know that they do not have support, even with that minorsupport they can start burning and causing damage to the property and bringing civic lifeto some kind of disturbance, that's what we don't want to encourage at all.