'It Was A Total Conspiracy'

The full transcript of the BBC Hindi special programme AapkiBaat BBC Ke Saath with the controversial JMM leader and coal minister ShibuSoren on whether or not it is a cruel joke on Indian democracy to havecharge-sheeted ministers in the cabinet.

Nagendar Sharma: Is it not a cruel joke on Indian democracy to berepresented by ministers facing serious criminal charges?

Shibu Soren:  I am not facing any personal charge, the casesagainst me have been made on the charges of leading people’s movements. I have been harassedfor leading the fight for the statehood of Jharkhand. I began my career fightingfor people’s causes -- this is my style of politics and I think democracy is forpeople’s causes only

BBC listener from Moradabad: Mr Soren, there is a notion that youwanted to become the coal minister again because you want to get theheadquarters of Coal India Limited and Damodar Valley Corporation shifted fromWest Bengal to Ranchi, as you are eyeing the Chief Minister’s  chair ofJharkhand after the assembly polls due in three months’ time...

Shibu Soren: I have never said that I want to get these officesshifted like luggage from West Bengal. Both the headquarters were set-upthere during the British rule and have been there for centuries. Since the majoritycoal mines are in Jharkhand and after being granted statehood, something isrequired here. What I want is that the work should continue both inJharkhand and West Bengal. It is not a question of merely shifting offices.

Nagendar Sharma: Mr Soren, you became the coal minister when the UPAgovernment assumed office, but you had to quit because of the warrants by a court in Jharkhand,and now after a few months now you are back again as coal minister. Isn’t thisministry suffering because of all this?

Shibu Soren: I was born in the coal belt of the country, which isresponsible 80 percent of the country’s production. The country’s energy isdependant on coal, and my top priority would be to increase coal production. Peaceand the prosperity of the coal belt is dependant on production, and the development of tribalareas is linked to it. I am making all round efforts to see that the coalproduction goes up, and it is developed to the latest level. The need of coalfor the country is paramount, and all efforts would be made to increaseproduction.     

I was the coal minister initially, and the circumstances in which Ihad to leave the ministry for the whole world to see. Such a ruckus wascreated in Parliament, that the Prime Minister told me that since I was introuble, I should relinquish the office, which I did. But those who were making such anoise then have now seen the reality.

BBC listener from Sonbhadra: Mr Soren you are saying that you leadpeople’s movements --  is politics today merely for reaching Parliament andstate legislatures in the name of people’s movements?

Shibu Soren: My friend, when you live in a democracy, youhave to follow its norms. Our democratic system has given theright to the voters to elect their representatives, who have to then govern fora fixed period. I was elected as a member of  Parliament by my voters, and thenthe alliance, to which my party is affiliated, decided to make me the minister,and I am fulfilling my duties. Whether a minister or not, I continue to work forthe people. However, you have to respect the verdict of the majority in ademocracy.

BBC listener from Dehradun: Mr Soren, why is it that when aparticular political party is facing charges of  criminalisation of politics, itdecides to start attacking the other party?

Shibu Soren: My friend, there is a rule of law in this country and weare all governed by rules and procedures. If a particular person has committedan illegal act, he would be held guilty by a court of law, but you cannot keepon shouting guilty-guilty even before the trial. My strong view is that in ademocracy, it is the duty of leaders to lead movements. In doing so they couldbe implicated in false cases, as I have been, but there is nothing to worry asthe court of law would see what is right and wrong.

Nagendar Sharma: Mr Soren, you say that there is no personal chargeagainst you, and you have been implicated for leading political movements, butdon’t you think you have a lost a chance to have projected yourself as anexample for the politicians of the country had you refused to become a ministerpending a trial against you? Shouldn't you  have waited till the final verdictof the court?

Shibu Soren: It is not important for me to be a minister -- please notethis. But see the case against me was a conspiracy to get rid of me fromthe political scene. I became a minister only because I feel that I can do a lotfor my people. I am absolutely clear in one thing that there is no personal caseagainst me, it was made for leading a movement, which I would continue to do. It is my right.

BBC listener from Dharbanga:  I share the opinion that youhave lost a golden opportunity to have become a 'different' leader who could havesacrificed the chair for people’s sake.

Shibu Soren: I do not think that by becoming a minister I have lost anopportunity to be a different leader. On the contrary, I think that if I had stayed out of theministry, I would have given a chance to the conspirators to claim theirvictory. I do not care about them. I know I have to work for the coal beltof the country, that is my aim. I fight for the people and they have stood by me.It was proved in the recent general elections. Those who conspired to snatch coalministry from me would be taught another lesson by the people in the forthcoming assembly elections.       

Nagendar Sharma: But Mr Soren, every party likes to claim that its leaders werefalsely implicated in political cases. The BJP says its leaders were falsely named inthe Babri Masjid case, and your party says the same about your case. What is thedifference?

Shibu Soren: It is for the judiciary to see the difference. Our countryhas a clearly defined law, which would decide everything. The case against me isatleast 30 years old. When was the Babri Masjid demolished? The world knows itwho did what in the demolition. It is also public knowledge what the case against meis. It is for the court to see who is guilty and who is not. This iswhat the law of the country says. Now, it is a practice that a person can contestelections, if he is not convicted and is facing a trial. Whom do you call acriminal in this country? It's all clear for you to see.

BBC listener from Barmer: But would this situation continuewhen Congress and allies are in opposition -- they would shout against Advani, UmaBharti etc., for Babri cases, and now when you are in power BJP and allies wouldshout against your cases. Is this all that's left in our system?

Shibu Soren: We are governed by certain rules in our democracy. WhatAdvani, Uma Bharti and others have done is well-known to the entire world. It isequally well-known why I have been harassed. Only those whoare eligible to contest elections do so, and become ministers etc. -- therefore, I have great faith in democracy.

Nagendar Sharma: Mr Soren, you are saying you can do a lot as the coalminister, but the real situation today is that state governments are demandingroyalty on prices. What is the centre’s stand on this?

Shibu Soren: We have to understand we are using the natural resources ofthe state by taking coal out. It isthe right of the states to demand royalty, as after all they want development inreturn for coal. As far as royalty on prices is concerned, there is a mechanismof consultation between the centre and the states. In this process, from time totime, the royalty is increased also, and we would look into all the genuinedemands of the states, as we are responsible for development of  the statesandincrease in coal productivity.

BBC listener from Surat : Mr Soren, this term,  "tainted ministers", isbecoming old for Indians, whether it be the NDA government which had ministers named inthe Babri Masjid demolition, or now the UPA government which hasministers with criminal and corruption cases against them. Can’t we livewithout such ministers?

Shibu Soren: When you live in a society, you strive for itsbetterment, and, for this, at times, you even agitate. Now the caseagainst me was reopened as a part of a conspiracy to get rid of me politically.My view against those charged with Babri Masjid demolition is also that thecourt would decide -- but why start shouting before that?

Nagendar Sharma: But, Mr Soren, the court issued warrants against you when youwere a minister. You went underground, nobody knew where you were. A sittingminister, a senior politician of the country like you missing -- don’t you nowthink you set a wrong example by evading the warrants?

Shibu Soren: It was a total conspiracy. I was very much present inParliament, when BJP members used to shout "absconder, absconder" for me. When thecentral government asked the Jharkhand state government what warrant was thereagainst me, in which case, in which police station, they first sent a replythat there was nothing against me. No warrant! Then since a BJP government isin Jharkhand and their central leadership wanted an issue to keep thedisruptions on in Parliament , the warrant was manufactured in a day, to malignme in an old case. This is the conspiracy I am talking about.  

BBC listener from Varanasi : Sir, why do political parties givetickets to criminals? Are you people not worried about the falling standards ofIndian parliamentary democracy?

Shibu Soren: It is true that candidates of criminal charactershould not be encouraged by political parties, and especially those who havebeen convicted in criminal cases should not be there in politics. It is a factthat criminals contest elections, whether from the jails or outside and they getelected also. If all political parties work on this, we would welcome thissuggestion.

Nagendar Sharma: But, Mr Soren, you are a part of the ruling UPA. Whydoesn’t this alliance take the lead and form consensus to draw a line betweenpolitical and criminal cases?

Shibu Soren: I have remained a revolutionary throughout my lifeand am not a criminal. Nelson Mandela was in jail for so long, Gandhiji was injail, Nehruji was in jail. Do we hold all of them guilty? In this country, it is not a matter of who is ruling and who is not.There are institutions like the Election Commission who are best equipped todeal with all this.

Nagendar Sharma: But why do you want this trading of charges tocontinue? Why is nobody ready to take the initiative and put an end to these charges andcounter charges?

Shibu Soren: You are right that this trading of charges and countercharges is a dangerous game, and would only weaken the democratic roots of thecountry. Our great country cannot be run by merely blaming each other. ALakshman Rekha would have to be drawn to bring this to an end. A lot has been said on the issue of tainted ministers. Please tellme one thing when the law of the country permits that you can contest elections,why this hue and cry?

Why am I being targeted? Only because I fought against exploitationof tribals and creation of separate Jharkhand state? A case can be made againstanyone, but please wait for the court to give its verdict! If I would have doneanything against the law, then the court would find me guilty, but please tellme what would these people who shouted against me do, if the court finds meinnocent?

Nagendar Sharma: What is the JMM strategy for the  forthcomingJharkhand assembly elections, and are you a candidate for Chief Ministership?

Shibu Soren: We would fight the coming assembly elections inalliance with our partners who were with us in the Lok Sabha elections when weswept the state. This time also our alliance would win, and the issue of chiefministership would be decided by the people of the state. We would see after theelections whom the people want as their chief minister, but this is decidedafter the elections, and the people of Jharkhand know whom they want as theirnew chief minister.

Nagendar Sharma: Would the JMM accept the chief minister from any otheralliance partner?

Shibu Soren: At the moment we are not thinking about the chiefministership issue, we first want to sit down and decide the seat sharing withour allies. During the course of discussions, we would discuss the chiefministership also. This is an issue which is decided by the people’s support.Jharkhand Mukti Morcha is a big party in the state, we have been fighting forthis state since 40 years, and our allies know fully well that JMM is thebiggest party in the state with all round support of the people. We would sitwith our allies and decide the issue of chief ministership.