'I Take President Musharraf At His Word'

Juan Williams: Let's begin with Pakistan and India. Has Pakistan stopped making cross-border infiltrations across the lineof control?

Colin Powell: Well, President Musharraf has made declaratory statements that is exactly what is happening, that he hasgiven the necessary instructions. And what we are doing now is waiting to see whether that is happening infact. In the last couple of days we have started to pick up some indication that would suggest there is alittle less activity going across the line of control, but I think it's going to take a bit more time to makesure that that is actually what is happening.

I take President Musharraf at his word. He has given us this assurance. We have passed that assurance on tothe Indians. And we are hopeful he is doing everything in his power to stop this kind of activity.

Obviously there are elements in Kashmir that may not be bound by President Musharraf's instructions, but tothe extent that any Pakistani Government units are in any way supporting this, that's the kind of activitythat has to be stopped.

Juan Williams: Is the United States --

Colin Powell: It's also really not so much a matter for the United States to judge; it's what the Indians judge. And that'show we get this crisis ceased -- stopped rather -- and moving in the other direction, and that is the Indianscan pick up their signals.

And I am encouraged by some statements the Indians made yesterday that they have seen some indications ofchange, to the extent that they think there is additional time to wait and see whether this is a real changeor not.

Juan Williams: So, in your opinion, there has been a lulling of tensions?

Colin Powell: I don't want to go that far. I think that we have seen a little bit of improvement in the last couple ofdays, but the tension is still very high. This is still a very dangerous situation. It is still a crisis.

I am pleased that both sides have given rather sobering statements recently about nuclear weapons, andnobody wants to think about the use of nuclear weapons. That is helpful, even if it's only rhetorical at thispoint.

So tension is still high, it's still a crisis, but I think I've seen a few positive elements in the lastcouple of weeks.

Juan Williams: You still have US troops in Pakistan, and you mentioned that the US has been monitoring whether or not therehave been cross-line-of-control infiltration by militants. Is the United States playing a role of monitoringwhat's taking place there? Are you reporting --

Colin Powell: The US troops are there principally, in relatively modest numbers, because of our efforts in Afghanistan. ButUS troops are not monitoring the line of control, not patrolling the line of control, are not in that part ofthe region at all.

Juan Williams: Any chance that those troops might be pulled in?

Colin Powell: I don't see any prospect of that.

Juan Williams: Do you see any political solution to the Indian-Pakistan conflict?

Colin Powell: Yes. There is nothing inevitable about war. If political leaders want to find a political solution, there isusually one that can be found. Both leaders, President Musharraf and Prime Minister Vajpayee, have saidrepeatedly over the last almost six-plus months now that they are hopeful for a political solution.

And that's what we are working so hard on, and that's why this afternoon Deputy Secretary of State, mydeputy Rich Armitage, is heading to the region. It's why I have been living on the telephones for months now-- I've spoken to President Musharraf as recently as two days ago -- and why Donald Rumsfeld, our Secretary ofDefense, will also be heading to India and Pakistan at the tail end of the trip he is making beginning todayfor NATO meetings, and then into other parts of the region, into the Persian Gulf area, and then ultimatelyending up in India and Pakistan.

So we are keeping up a full court diplomatic, a full court political press, working closely with ourfriends and allies, working closely with the British, who have unique relations with both of those countries,working closely with the Russians, President Putin and Foreign Minister Ivanov. I spoke to Foreign MinisterIvanov before the meeting that's taking place now in Almaty to make sure that our messages are consistent andcoherent. And I'm very pleased that the whole international community has come together to make the case toIndia and Pakistan that we do not want to see this disagreement result in a war, with lots of unintendedconsequences.

Juan Williams: Tell me a little bit about a framework. This is a longstanding dispute on the Kashmir region.

Colin Powell: Kashmir is a longstanding dispute. It's been going on since the creation of the two countries, some 54 yearsago. And many, many efforts have been made over the years to resolve the Kashmir dispute, but it's stillthere. And if we get this crisis ended and we get the Indian army to go back to its home stations andessentially we end this confrontation at the border, we have said to both sides that the United States andother members of the international community are willing to lend their good offices to the beginning of adialogue between India and Pakistan on all of their outstanding issues, to include Kashmir.

But it is an issue that is only going to be resolved by the two sides talking to each other, working witheach other. It's been difficult to get the process started in recent years, but I have said to both of them,and the President has said to both countries, the United States is willing to assist in the beginning of thatdialogue; we don't want to be the mediator, that won't work, but we certainly can lend our good offices to thebeginning of discussions.

Juan Williams: Just to put the question another way, you don't have any idea for what a possible framework might be thatcould resolve that dispute?

Colin Powell: There are many ideas that have been tried over the years, and I'm sure that if a dialogue begins we may wellhave some ideas we put on the table. But it would be premature now to start, without talking to the twoparties, to put forward "an outsider's plan." It's something that's going to have to be dealt withbetween the two sides, and we have to do it very carefully, with a lot of preparation. And they will have toprepare themselves as well for this dialogue because we've seen so many false starts in the past.

So there's a lot of discussion over the last several days. Should the two leaders meet in Almaty together?Isn't that the solution, for them to get in a room across the table? Well, that hasn't worked very well thelast couple of times they've tried it, so it seems to me that we should not be in a hurry to move this issueto the center stage until the necessary preparatory work has been done.

Right now, what we are trying to do is to end this crisis that exists with these two armies facing oneanother. We want to get that under control and then we can see how best to go about getting a dialogue startedbetween the two that ultimately has to deal with the issue of Kashmir.

Juan Williams: What do you make of the Indian Prime Minister Vajpayee's refusal to sit down and talk to President Musharraf?He says that until there is a promise that they will no longer support militant activities, there's no need totalk. What does a diplomat do with that?

Colin Powell: Well, that's his position, and that goes right back to what I said a moment ago. Where we are right now inthis crisis is we need to determine that that cross-LOC activity has been brought under control or stopped. Atthat point then, the windshield wiper -- I like to say -- switches over the Indian side and says, okay, it'sstopped; now we are expecting you to take de-escalatory steps to move back away from the border, to startmoving away; let's end this immediate crisis, and then let's see what next steps come along.

And ultimately, the two sides will have to get into a discussion with each other. If we are successfuldiplomatically, politically, in due course at some time in the future the two sides will be in a room talkingto one another, because that's where we have to end up.

Juan Williams: The Russian President Putin is playing a role here. A week or so ago, President Bush was with Mr. Putin andon a trip to Europe in general. Was that trip a success?

Colin Powell: I think that trip was a great success. We signed a historic treaty with the Russians. I was pleased to bethere when it was done. We all worked very hard on the treaty. And it reduces the number of operationallydeployed warheads by two-thirds from the levels that they are now. Those warheads initially go into storage,but ultimately each side will make their own determination of what you do with these extra warheads. Youdestroy some of them, some are kept as spares. But the pressure will be to get rid of them as fast as you can.We don't want them around. But both countries have a limit as to how fast they can get rid of them. It's notan easy thing to do. And so I'm very pleased with that treaty making this significant reduction inoperationally deployed warheads.

President Putin and President Bush also signed a political document that gave us a way with respect toeconomic cooperation, regional things we can do together. And then the President had good meetings withChancellor Schroeder of Germany, a good meeting with President Chirac in France, and then with Prime MinisterBerlusconi in Rome -- all leading up to another historic event. That was the NATO meeting in Rome where Russiawas welcomed into a new NATO-Russia Council.

It simply means that the 19 NATO nations will sit down from time to time on selected issues with Russia, sothere will be a council for all 20 nations together working on issues of mutual interest –counter-terrorism, nonproliferation, air-sea rescue activities -- an easy one to do. Why shouldn't these 20nations come up with a common ideal of how to perform civil emergency efforts with each other, air-sea rescue,things of that nature?

So I think this is an important breakthrough, and it brings Russia closer to the West, and the West closerto Russia. And as part of the President's strategy of demonstrating to Russia that they are no longer anenemy, and we are no longer their enemy, and so let's cooperate more on a NATO-Russia Council, let's do moretogether on economic issues.

By the way, when NATO has its Prague summit later this fall and invites other nations that want to be apart of NATO to join NATO, Russia should not see that as a threat in any way to Russia's interests. We are alltrying to work together on this greater Euro-Atlantic partnership.

Juan Williams: Very quickly, the critics have said that missile agreement really is window dressing, does not substantiallyreduce the threat of nuclear annihilation in this world. The point out that there were large demonstrations inEurope, that many of the European leaders were concerned about US interest in taking -- changing the regimerule in Iraq. And finally, on the Russian issue, I think people said, well, the United States did not evensucceed in getting Russia to promise to stop exporting nuclear materials to Iran.

Colin Powell: Well, you have a lot of questions in that one statement, Juan, so let me start with the treaty. It is notwindow dressing. Any time you go from 6,000 warheads deployed that could be launched, and you take that downto 1,700 to 2,200 warheads deployed, and the Russians will know where those warheads are on deployed systemsand we'll know where theirs are, and the whole verification regime that existed with previous arms controlagreements, especially START I, that comes into this new agreement. So it is not just window dressing. It isfor real.

And we had said to the Russians we don't need this treaty, we're going to do it anyway, and you can watchus. But the Russians said, please, let's make it legally binding, it's important for us. And that's what we'redoing. Their Duma, their congress, and our Senate will ratify this agreement, so it's not window dressing.

With respect to issues such as Russia's assistance to Iran, which we believe contributes to Iran's abilityto develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them, Russia says, look, we don't want Iranto have that capability, we assure you we are not providing that kind of help and that kind of technology. Wedon't agree with that.

So this is a place where we have a common goal -- Iran should not have that kind of capability -- but wehave a disagreement as to whether what the Russians are doing contributes to that goal or not. So we can havea disagreement and continue to move forward.

I also did notice, as you suggested, some demonstrations in Europe. But by the standards of the day, theywere fairly modest. And I also saw many people greeting the President, greeting the members of the delegation,and I can assure you that all of the leaders we met with, all of the NATO leaders in Rome and the otherleaders we had bilateral meetings with, were very complimentary of the President's actions in Russia, bothwith the treaty and the political document, and were very complimentary of the President's actions withrespect to helping bring into being the NATO-Russia Council.

Juan Williams: On Saturday at West Point, the President said that the United States would take preemptive action againstpeople who would perpetrate terror in this world. Many people interpreted that as being a statement that hewould -- he's still interested in taking action against Saddam Hussein. At the same time, the administrationsays the President has no war plans on his desk. Make sense of this for me.

Colin Powell: I think it makes perfect sense. The President has this habit of telling the truth. And the truth is that webelieve that those regimes -- and very often non-state actors, terrorists -- who are developing weapons ofmass destruction are great dangers to us and to the rest of the world. And it is not like a traditionalconventional conflict. If we know they're doing it and we know they're coming our way, then it seems to me tobe a sensible strategy to preserve the option to take preemptive action. If we knew that the Japanese fleetwas on its way to attack Pearl Harbor, we wouldn't wait until they attacked Pearl Harbor; we would have takenpreemptive action.

In the case of all actors that are developing this kind of technology, the President put them on warning.And since Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi regime is developing this kind of technology, the President once againreaffirmed that he believes a regime change would be best for Iraq and for the Iraqi people. But we're alsoworking with the UN on sanctions and on inspectors. The fact that he doesn't have a plan on his desk right nowis a statement of fact. So he is concerned, he is examining his options, but right now he has not beenprovided a recommendation by his advisors, and there is no plan on his desk.

Juan Williams: Any political solution on the horizon with regard to Iraq?

Colin Powell: I think there are political things that can be done. We did it with the passing of the smart sanctionsresolution a few weeks ago. And we will see whether the Iraqis are interested in letting the UN inspectorsback in when they meet with the Secretary General of the United Nations in early July.

So there are some political steps that can be taken, but it's hard to imagine that we will ever find asolution to this problem with Saddam Hussein sitting at the head of that regime. And we'll see whether or notthere are political, diplomatic or other ways to change that regime.

Juan Williams: Now, a few weeks ago in talking about a meeting of all the parties in the Middle East, you talked abouthaving a conference. The White House then said, well, we really think it's more like a meeting. And I heardthat you were joking with the President about a grand summit, and what's the difference between a meeting anda conference.

Colin Powell: Well, "grand summit" is a term I never used, because I always saw this as a ministerial levelmeeting, meaning that people at my level -- I would essentially represent the United States at such a meeting.I think the reason that's important is because a lot has happened over the last year and a half, and we reallyhave a lot of work to do before we start thinking about grand summits where we bring every head of stateimaginable to some conference, and we're going to solve every problem in the Middle East all at one meeting.It isn't going to happen that way.

And so what I put forward and what the President has endorsed and what the President is expecting to happenover the next several weeks or couple of months is that Director Tenet will return from the Middle East withhis report on security transformation in the Palestinian Authority; Ambassador Burns, my Assistant Secretaryfor Near Eastern Affairs, will be back this week, and he will talk about what political options are available;Prime Minister Sharon is coming early next week; President Mubarak will be here this week; we've talked to theSaudis. Lots of ideas are being pulled together. And I am still planning at the President's direction to holdsome kind of meeting in the course of the summer.