'Sweeper Or PM, A Crime Is A Crime'

According to Narasimha Rao, he was not present at the Haloram House hotel in New York when you say you met him.

The meeting took place 13 years ago. I don't remember the exact date. But that does not change the facts. It was sometime before Christmas. I remember I went to El Paso after this meeting , and then to Mexico for Christmas.

So when exactly was the meeting with Rao?

It happened a few days before Christmas—between the 18th and the 23rd. Had I known how important the meeting would turn out to be, I would have recorded it or called in a cameraman. Rao met me in Chandraswami's room.

According to Rao's counsel, Kapil Sibal, there is no entry in the former prime minister's passport to show he was in New York.

Was he (Rao) an ordinary traveller or was he travelling on a diplomatic passport? It is not my job but the job of the investigating agencies to find out if he was actually there. Passports can be messed around with. Anything can happen in India. We can buy ministers like we buy vegetables. They have fooled the country, now they are fooling the court.

Some of the witnesses whom you said were present at the meeting—Muscat-based businessman Umesh Khimji and Ashwin Patel, the businessman from Leceister, have denied being there. So, were they actually present?

They were eight to ten people. I have already given their names to the court. I had told the magistrate that I cannot reveal their names without their permission. I didn't want to offend them or create any problems for them. I was told by the magistrate that hiding anything is equivalent to lying. Now they are denying they were present and I don't have to force them to speak the truth.

One of the witnesses, Maharashtra minister Suresh Jain, said he didn't know you then and that Rao was not present.

It is an absolute lie. Politicians are people who can change their statements like other people change their clothes. They have no conscience.

How did you enter into a contract to supply newsprint and paper pulp when it isn't your line of business?

The contract was a trap. I was in the pickle line, in no way in paper.

But what about the money you paid to Chandraswami? Wasn't that a bribe?

A bribe taken is a crime. So is a bribe given. Let the court decide whether this is a crime. I paid $100,000 in two cheques, drawn on the Canadian Imperial Bank, to Chandraswami. I am prepared to face any sentence if I am proved guilty. A crime is a crime whether it's committed by a sweeper, king or prime minister.

Are you certain the man you met in the hotel was Rao?

I didn't know Rao till he came into Chandraswami's room. But he has a face that can't be forgotten.

What exactly did Rao say to you?

Chandraswami brought Rao to his room. Suresh Jain and others were present. All of us got up and greeted him. Chandraswami introduced me to Rao saying: "Yeh hamare Pathakji hain. Yeh bahuth bada industrialist hai." Rao turned to me and said: "Chandraswami has told me everything. Your work will be done." I was thrilled because I was the only one in the room who was introduced to him. Suresh Jain said I was lucky to have managed an introduction. This is the whole truth.

Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray says that you are keen to join his party.

I want to be a Shiv Sainik and be of service to the people. I know the Shiv Sena from the time I had a pickle factory in Andheri in 1974-75.