Pakistan's prime minister-in-waiting, Shaukat Aziz, isn't officious, nor does he believe in keeping anyone waiting. As soon as he reaches office, Aziz is told about the scheduled interview with Outlook. He promptly walks into the aide's room and accompanies me to his office. On the walls are photographs of the holy Kaba. His predecessor as FM had installed these; Aziz says he has only changed the frames. On the table is a Starbuck coffee mug with pens in it. Incongruous, isn't it? "My daughter sent it," he laughs lightly. Aziz tells his staff to not put in any calls to him, and then settles down for what is his first media interview after he was nominated PM-in-waiting.
Relaxed and candid, he doesn't shy away from questions, though at times he does hasten to point out which of his replies are off-the-record. He isn't apologetic about his decision to go public regarding his Sunni Muslim background—it had to be done to deny vicious rumours that he's an Ahmadi, declared non-Muslim in Pakistan and consequently proscribed from holding the post of prime minister. Won't the emphasis on his Sunni background keep the Shias from voting for him in the twin byelections of August 18? "I really don't care," he says insouciantly. Once you are through with the interview, you are convinced that this former Citibank employee has perfected the art of the politician—of talking on all subjects without revealing anything. Excerpts from the interview with Mariana Baabar:
Q: What's Your Nationality? A: Of Course, I'm Pakistani
Pakistan's PM-in-waiting has perfected the art of the politician—of talking on all subjects without revealing anything.
Two years back, General Pervez Musharraf was keen to bring you into the National Assembly so that he could make you the prime minister. That didn't happen. Was it because he could not find a safe seat for you to contest from?
How did Musharraf bring you into the ministry after he took over from Nawaz Sharif?
Why did you accept the job even though you were not drawing a salary?
Where was this spirit of serving the country before Musharraf took over from Sharif?
Did Benazir and Sharif accept your advice?
Soon you will be sitting in the prime minister's office, where you have to rub shoulders with ordinary workers and people. A far cry from your previous white-collar jobs, isn't it?
Gen Musharraf nominates prime ministers, and openly campaigns for the PML(Q) which is ruling the country. Are you comfortable with that?
The president is part of parliament. It was the PML(Q) which nominated me prime minister. I am very comfortable because I am the sort of person who is at peace with himself. I am also a God-fearing person who sleeps well at night. I have earned all this through sheer hard work.
Is democracy under stress in Pakistan?
Democracy is evolving and certainly not under stress. Democracy is gaining momentum. The assemblies are functioning. As finance minister, I have been participating in Senate and National Assembly sittings. It is a healthy process and keeps the government in check. The question and answer sessions provide transparency. I have a heavy interaction with the parliamentarians; all the projects they suggest are always within the realm of prudence. The richness of feedback helps in decision-making.
You have worked in several countries (UAE, Saudia Arabia, Morocco) which are either not true democracies or have no democracy and...
The political process in Pakistan will move forward. If there is improved governance, everyone will believe in it. I recently wrote in an article (pushes across the article) that Pakistan, with President Musharraf's vision on Enlightened Moderation, has been provided the ideal positioning to achieve its true potential. Pakistan is at a historic crossroads. If we stay the course, we will excel. If we don't, we can derail easily. I have total conviction that we have the talent, competence and wisdom to achieve our objectives provided we can rise above individual agendas and differences and be driven by the national agenda.
But in your stint as finance minister, nothing appears to have changed for the poor.
Look, we have controlled the rate of inflation—from double digits it is now in single digit. Poverty reduction is all about creating opportunity. I agree that poverty still exists in the country. Poverty has many facets that include lack of essential services and deprivation in different forms. Recent surveys in Pakistan indicate that accelerated growth is beginning to impact the people. We are looking at the agriculture structure and bringing in reforms. For structural reforms, you need nerves of steel. Import duty on all agriculture goods have been slashed.
How do you view relations with India, especially in the area of economic cooperation.
India and Pakistan are neighbours and they have to work to live in peace. War should be on poverty. We need to tackle all issues, including Kashmir. We have to evolve a thinking and take forward the January 6 joint statement.
Do you know enough about the Kashmir issue?
Well, I should. My mother is Kashmiri. But besides that, of course, I know about the issue. You don't know me very well. I am very inquisitive and read up and am ready to discuss any subject. Do you want to talk about the global oil situation?
What were you doing in the Kahuta Research Laboratory which is off limits to lesser humans (his visit there has sparked a huge controversy)?
We have an overt programme there and the request came from those running the programme as they wanted to discuss their share of allocation in the annual budget. The prime minister was also supposed to be present but he had a prior meeting elsewhere. I was accompanied by my finance secretary, which no one knows about.
No one has seen your wife. Is her name Gloria, as some media reports claim?
My wife's name is Rukhsana, and she is around. I have three children.One is married, one is working, the third is still studying.
What's your nationality?
I am surprised that you ask this. I and my family have always kept our Pakistani passports. I have never possessed dual passports. Yes, I needed a green card to work in the US but it must be expiring now.I don't know where it is lying and I don't care. I really don't have a clue to who Gloria is. One newspaper did print an apology for saying that Gloria is my wife's name.
Green card or no green card, don't contacts in Washington help?
For me, Pakistan and our national interest comes first. Full stop. Of course, global outreach helps. I have contacts the world over, not only in the US. You can conduct diplomacy in any capital of the world. But remember, diplomacy does not change the decision of any country.
So will you bring in a new finance minister once you become prime minister?
We will see when the new cabinet comes up. I am not saying anything now.
The president is part of parliament. It was the PML(Q) which nominated me prime minister. I am very comfortable because I am the sort of person who is at peace with himself. I am also a God-fearing person who sleeps well at night. I have earned all this through sheer hard work.
Is democracy under stress in Pakistan?
Democracy is evolving and certainly not under stress. Democracy is gaining momentum. The assemblies are functioning. As finance minister, I have been participating in Senate and National Assembly sittings. It is a healthy process and keeps the government in check. The question and answer sessions provide transparency. I have a heavy interaction with the parliamentarians; all the projects they suggest are always within the realm of prudence. The richness of feedback helps in decision-making.
You have worked in several countries (UAE, Saudia Arabia, Morocco) which are either not true democracies or have no democracy and...
The political process in Pakistan will move forward. If there is improved governance, everyone will believe in it. I recently wrote in an article (pushes across the article) that Pakistan, with President Musharraf's vision on Enlightened Moderation, has been provided the ideal positioning to achieve its true potential. Pakistan is at a historic crossroads. If we stay the course, we will excel. If we don't, we can derail easily. I have total conviction that we have the talent, competence and wisdom to achieve our objectives provided we can rise above individual agendas and differences and be driven by the national agenda.
But in your stint as finance minister, nothing appears to have changed for the poor.
Look, we have controlled the rate of inflation—from double digits it is now in single digit. Poverty reduction is all about creating opportunity. I agree that poverty still exists in the country. Poverty has many facets that include lack of essential services and deprivation in different forms. Recent surveys in Pakistan indicate that accelerated growth is beginning to impact the people. We are looking at the agriculture structure and bringing in reforms. For structural reforms, you need nerves of steel. Import duty on all agriculture goods have been slashed.
How do you view relations with India, especially in the area of economic cooperation.
India and Pakistan are neighbours and they have to work to live in peace. War should be on poverty. We need to tackle all issues, including Kashmir. We have to evolve a thinking and take forward the January 6 joint statement.
Do you know enough about the Kashmir issue?
Well, I should. My mother is Kashmiri. But besides that, of course, I know about the issue. You don't know me very well. I am very inquisitive and read up and am ready to discuss any subject. Do you want to talk about the global oil situation?
What were you doing in the Kahuta Research Laboratory which is off limits to lesser humans (his visit there has sparked a huge controversy)?
We have an overt programme there and the request came from those running the programme as they wanted to discuss their share of allocation in the annual budget. The prime minister was also supposed to be present but he had a prior meeting elsewhere. I was accompanied by my finance secretary, which no one knows about.
No one has seen your wife. Is her name Gloria, as some media reports claim?
My wife's name is Rukhsana, and she is around. I have three children.One is married, one is working, the third is still studying.
What's your nationality?
I am surprised that you ask this. I and my family have always kept our Pakistani passports. I have never possessed dual passports. Yes, I needed a green card to work in the US but it must be expiring now.I don't know where it is lying and I don't care. I really don't have a clue to who Gloria is. One newspaper did print an apology for saying that Gloria is my wife's name.
Green card or no green card, don't contacts in Washington help?
For me, Pakistan and our national interest comes first. Full stop. Of course, global outreach helps. I have contacts the world over, not only in the US. You can conduct diplomacy in any capital of the world. But remember, diplomacy does not change the decision of any country.
So will you bring in a new finance minister once you become prime minister?
We will see when the new cabinet comes up. I am not saying anything now.
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