National

“Would The NDA Have Us Believe No Welfare Is Needed?”

The chairman of the National Commission for Scheduled Castes, P.L. Punia, on the increase in cases of atrocities on Dalits.

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“Would The NDA Have Us Believe No Welfare Is Needed?”
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While MPs were paying their homage to Dr B.R. Ambedkar in Parliament, former Union minister Kumari Selja told the House that when she visited the temple at Dwarka as a minister, she was required to spell out her caste. The chairman of the National Commission for Scheduled Castes, P.L. Punia, says when he went to Puri, the sanctum sanctorum was promptly shut down for visitors. In Haryana alone, there has been a seven-fold increase in cases of atrocities on Dalits between 2000 and 2014. The situation, agrees P.L. Punia, rem­ains grim and neither the Constitution nor the National Commission are able to protect the Dalits. Excerpts of his conversation with Bula Devi.

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Parliament discussed rising intolerance in society. Was it useful?

It was long overdue. The government tried to divert attention from the main issue by saying that law and order is a state subject. Granted, but what did they (BJP leaders) do? Their minister, MP and MLA spoke in favour of the culprits and expressed concern for their safety. Sangeet Som said those behind bars should get justice. So, what message did they send ? The RSS said there should be a review on reservation but subsequently, after the RSS conference in Ranchi, it talked of Muslim population increasing and creating an imbalance in society. What do they mean, how are they going to correct it?

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But did anyone learn any lesson from the discussion?

No. Arun Jaitley in his suo motu statement made a mention of Kumari Selja having written something nice on Dwarka temple, which she actually refuted in the House. Piyush Goel talks of ‘manufactured’ complaints. Obviously, they haven’t learnt any lesson from the discussion.

Do you sometimes feel frustrated as chairman of the SC-ST Commission?

Since the Commission’s findings are recommendatory in nature and not binding, it does get frustrating. In fact, in service and welfare matters, government departments are moving courts and challenging our authority. The Commission is part of the state and so are the departments. What’s happening is state fighting state in courts of law. For instance, the government issued instructions that reservation in promotions should be given up to level six (deputy general manager’s post) in banks. This was challenged in the Madras High Court, but was dismissed. Banks then went to the SC, but the apex court did not find anything wrong. So now banks have gone for a review. Ironically, even the NDA government, which issued the instruction, has now gone for a review!

Is the entry of Dalits still barred from temples?

There are a large number of such cases. About three-four years back after seeing a media report, I visited the temple at Puri. I declared that we were all Dalits and could not be stopped from entering the temple, which is a public place, and if they did it would be considered a crime. We were allowed in. Inside, we saw a board stating Dalits could pray to the deity from that spot. There was a separate entry for others to the sanctum sanctorum. Aware of our presence, the pujari locked the sanctum sanctorum and went away. Such incidents are happening all over India. In most cases, people don’t complain. In coastal areas of Orissa, the problem is rampant. They exist in rural areas of Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka. In north India, Dalits normally do not go to temples, knowing they would face problems.

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You yourself have been an IAS officer. Do IAS and IPS officers too face discrimination?

There are only two secretaries to the Government of India who belong to the scheduled castes—secretary, pension, and secretary, administrative reforms. Even at the highest levels, they are not given challenging jobs. The caste system is still strong and that’s why it wasn’t surprising when Haryana’s health minister dared to humiliate Fatehabad SP Sangeeta Kalia, IPS. Similarly, in Gurgaon, following a tussle between the commissioner of police and the joint commissioner, who also was a lady from the scheduled castes, it was she who was transferred out.

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Has the Commission failed to protect the community? What difference has the Commission made?

Not all cases come to us. But our mandate is not to supervise the entire community. Our mandate is not to look into all crime against Dalits but just the cases which are reported to us and ensure action on them. We can take suo motu action, but not in all cases. State governments are, in any case, expected to follow the law.

The situation appears to have been equally bad when the UPA was in power.

Congress has always been sympathetic and most welfare measures were started by the UPA. But the NDA government says it would create an ecosystem of equal opportunity in education, health and livelihood, so that marginalised sections can avail of the emerging opportunity. What does that mean? I have no clue. Deprived sections need affirmative act­ion. I am referring to the President’s add­ress to the joint session of Parliament. Taking a cue from there, we can see that they are not going to bring in reservation in promotions.

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Is reservation in jobs and promotions then the only solution?

No. Seventy-five per cent of Dalit children and women suffer from anaemia and 50 per cent suffer from malnutrition. They depend on state-supported health and medicare facilities. There are also other welfare measures. But in the last budget there was a huge cut in money allocated for them. Does the government want us to believe that no welfare measures are required? How can it suddenly cut over Rs 63,000 crore?

The BJP accuses you of acting more like a Congress spokesman.

The Commission is a constitutional body and I am the chairman. I have been conferred the status of a cabinet minister. If Union ministers can talk about policies and other things, I also have that right. Cutting across party lines, no one has ever challenged my integrity. I am free to do my work and my being an MP or a Congress spokesman doesn’t restrict my activities as chairman.

You are on record as saying that the BJP is anti-Dalit but still Dalits of Uttar Pradesh supported the BJP in the general election last year.

The BJP lacks focus on welfare of scheduled castes and scheduled tribes. I mentioned the President’s address to Par­­­liament, reduction of more than Rs 63,000 crore in budget, reduction in scheduled caste sub-plan, not coming out with different proposals like reservation in promotions—a constitutional amendment passed by the Rajya Sabha. They are silent on reservation in post and services, silent on demands for reservation in private sector and in judiciary. They are not even prepared to listen. In 2014, the BJP gave sermons to Dalits that they were all Hindus and Hindus should vote together. They did vote together but I doubt if Dalits will repeat that.

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