'Multiplicity Of Authority'

Full transcript of the BBC Hindi Special programme, Aapki Baat BBC Ke Saath with Chief Minister ofDelhi, Sheila Dikshit, on: "What did the public of Delhi gain during this government's tenure and whatdid it lose."

Nagendar Sharma, BBC : Ms Sheila Dikshit you are completing your term as the Chief Ministerof India’s capital,  in these five years, what did the electorate of Delhi gain and what did it lose ?

Sheila Dikshit : In these five years, the public of Delhi has gained indevelopment, on the other hand the loss has been the rising population. Whatever any government does in Delhi,it falls short due to this ever increasing population of the capital.

BBC listener from Florida (US) : During your tenure, the capital has seen somepositive work, especially in the reduction of pollution. But still to make Delhi an international city, a lotneeds to be done. The residents are facing acute shortage of water and electricity cuts are frequent, why hasnothing been done in this direction ?

Sheila Dikshit : You are right, despite the privatisation of powerdistribution, the situation has not improved according to the expectations, but by next year we will beable to solve this problem. This year, as compared to last year, the power production has gone up by fortypercent. In the near future, this would be solved. 

Yes, water problem is also there, but by the end of the year, we would beproviding 140 million gallons of water. We have also made efforts in the direction of getting 90 million gallons ofwater from the Himalayas via Haryana, which should be functional soon. I assure all, that within next couple of years, these problems would havebecome part of history.

BBC listener from Sangrur (Punjab): I feel that the work of flyovers in Delhiis at a slow pace, is there any problem of funds not coming from the Centre, and also the basic law and orderproblem, only recently the security guards in President of India’s security have raped a college student. Awoman Chief Minister in the capital, and in her rule such shameless acts are taking place? I am also worriedabout the health care in the capital..

Sheila Dikshit : I do not agree, the work of flyovers is not at slow pace,these are being constructed at a good pace, there are some flyovers, which are taking more time, but this allis being done efficiently.

There is some concern with regards to law and order. But this particularincident involving the President’s security guards, this is a social crime, and not simply a law and orderproblem. When some people associated with the Rashtrapati Bhavan are involved in such a heinous act, it is thesociety which has to deal with it, in such situations of social crimes, the government can provide help, butthe society has to deal on the whole.

Now your question about the health care, in the last five years, the capacityof beds in the Delhi government hospitals has gone up by two thousand. Also remember that more than 30 percent of the patients who come to Delhihospitals are from neighbouring states – UP, Haryana, Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh. So Delhi looks afterthese patients as well. As I have said earlier, it is the rising population, which is a problem.

Nagendar Sharma, BBC : But Mrs Dikshit, people who come from different parts of the countryfor treatment to Delhi, come to the apex institutions like AIIMS, which are under the Central government, and nothospitals being run by Delhi government, which are in not in good shape, what do you say ?

Sheila Dikshit : No, no I do not agree. Recently the WHO has certified thatthe medicines being provided by the Delhi government hospitals are the best in the country, and I think thatafter the WHO certification, we should not point fingers.

The problem in Delhi is the multiplicity, which at times leads to overlapping. This is what the people do not understand.On behalf of Delhi government I can say with surety that the health caresystem is on a definitive road of improvement.

BBC listener from Delhi : Recently the Delhi government formed a commissionfor safai karamcharis [sanitation workers] I feel that the work of a dhobi [washerman] is quite similar, why have the dhobis beenleft out? Would they be included in this commission, or would there be another commission for the dhobis?

Sheila Dikshit : This is a good suggestion, if we are returned to power, wewould seriously consider your suggestion.

Nagendar Sharma, BBC : Ms Dikshit, you are completing a full term as the chief minister of the Indian capital, but during these five years, you have been saying that the Delhigovernment does not have fullrights, and the Central government has not given the state complete rights. Why is that what has been achievedisyour achievement and all the difficulties have been blamed on the Centre?

Sheila Dikshit : See, there is multiplicity of authority in Delhi, this is afact and cannot be denied. In such a situation, what happens is – people who vote and elect a government,want that government, and their elected representatives, to deliver. Common man cannot approach the Centralgovernment, therefore they want that the Delhi MLAs, ministers and the Chief Minister should solve all theproblems, which, in a way, is right also. But, the Delhi government has no right on the land. Such is the situation thatthe Delhi government cannot even construct a bus stop, since we have no land rights.

The priorities and needs of the Delhi government and the Centre are different,these lead to delays. Residents want to see the law and order is maintained, but what can the stategovernment do? Similarly, is the issue of Traffic, which again we do not control. Therefore this multiplicity of authority, thiscriss-crossing, only works asspeed breakers, resulting in delays. After all this is the national capital and work should be done quickly.

Nagendar Sharma, BBC : But Ms Dikshit, when Delhi was granted statehood, it was the Congress,which headed the government at the Centre, and in assembly elections BJP won, why were the powers nottransferred at that time. After five years, it was the reverse, BJP was in the Centre, and Congress won in thestate. So is this not a fact that BJP and Congress are equally responsible for this confusion ?

Sheila Dikshit : See Delhi as a place is in an incomparable situation. Firstof all, is the matter of security. It is not only the security of the VVIPs, VIPs, but also the securityinstallations.

It was for this reason that the BJP as well as the Congress decided thathanding over everything to a state government was not practical, as a state government with its meagreresources cannot handle such issues. Then you see all the diplomatic missions of all nations are based here,therefore in such a complex scenario, it was decided to keep such a structure.

At the same time when this was conceived, the idea of reasonable interferenceof the Centre was also kept. I feel that this reasonable interference should be there, it is not wrong. To think that Delhi would have power like MP, Rajasthan or any other statecannot happen.

But after ten years down the line, and after my five years’experience – Inow say that in this federal structure – when there are different parties governing the Centre and thestate, there are differences! So time has come for more administrative powers to the Delhi government, in away which does not create imbalance for the Centre, its own importance is there, but state needs something.

BBC listener from Delhi : Pt Nehru had said that one has to work and not giveexcuses. What has been done in the capital in five years, with heaps of garbage still seen on the streets andbasic amenities lacking?

Sheila Dikshit : Time will tell that our government does not believe inexcuses, and the development in Delhi in last five years has been unprecedented. See, heaps of garbage are inplaces where there is no proper cleanliness.

During these five years, not even a single allegation of corruption has beenlevelled on this government. We have initiated ‘people’s participation in governance’, to make peopleof Delhi aware of their responsibilities. What I fail to understand is when Indians go abroad, whether it be London orSingapore, they become responsible and do not spit on the road, do not throw rubbish on the streets, but whyis it not done when they are in Delhi? If the public cooperates, more than 40 percent cleanliness in the nationalcapital would be achieved without any difficulty.

We have kept up the process of consultation with the public during these fiveyears on every issue from cleanliness to CNG buses !

BBC listener from Delhi : The fleet of Delhi Transport Corporation (DTC) buseshas been considerably reduced. Everybody is aware of the malfunctioning of private buses. Do you hold theCentre responsible for this ?

Sheila Dikshit : Who says we hold the Centre responsible for this? It is theresponsibility of the Delhi government, and the number of buses has not gone down, it has been increased bythe government.

BBC listener from Saudi Arabia : If you win the next elections, what plan doyou have for betterment for those living in Delhi jhuggis [slums],  for clean water, toilets? Dengue fever is again onthe rise...

Sheila Dikshit : You are right, attempts are being made to identify the insectthat is responsible for the spread of Dengue. We have been trying hard to solve the problems of not only those living injhuggis, but there is also the problem of theseunauthorised colonies. But it is an irony that despite trying hard, Delhi government cannot spendmoney on the welfare of jhuggis and colonies which have not been granted recognition. Existing rules do notallow us to spend money on such areas. The centre and the Supreme Court have not approved of this.

Even the Finance Ministry does not permit this. It is an irony that poor anddowntrodden have to suffer. I feel that this is a basic question which should be addressed first. Again the point is Delhi government hasno land rights. The solution wouldhave been to bring up high rise buildings. We have formed a Housing Corporation for low income groups, but I agree withthis that what DDA should have done in this direction has not quite been achieved.

BBC listener from Peshawar (Pakistan) : Recently I saw on TV, a poor womanliving in big pipes, gave birth to a child there. What is your plan and what is the vision for development ofnational capital?

Sheila Dikshit : I hope I could meet you and tell you in detail what thevision we have. As I have said earlier the biggest problem and challenge for Delhi government is thepopulation. During independence, Delhi’s population was 12 to 14 lakhs, today it is onecrore and fifty lakhs.

What was required to be done was the development of the National CapitalRegion (NCR), in which the governments of Haryana, Rajasthan and UP were to provide assistance, but unfortunatelythis has not happened so far. Our problem is we cannot stop people from coming to Delhi, it is expanding sofast.

BBC listener from Hisar (Haryana) : The beginning of Metro in Delhiis a welcome step. But why are the Delhi government and the Centre trying to take credit for this? Is this type ofpolitics not sending a wrong signal?

Sheila Dikshit : I assure you that we are playing no politics on Metro. When we worked hard on thisproject for four, four and a half years, there was no politics, but when last year in December, time forinauguration came, some leaders in the Central government, based in Delhi, tried to play politics. But let meassure everybody that Metro project is on schedule, and no one would succeed in politicising the issue.

Nagendar Sharma, BBC : What is being done to regulate the road traffic in Delhi, lakhs of cars arebeing added to roads, creating chaos, but is there any policy to deal with this ?

Sheila Dikshit :Well, there is a transport policy, but you are right at the moment we have nomechanism to dissuade people from not using private cars, and there is no thinking on this at moment, I admit.The reason is that, having a car is a sign of prosperity and no one would give it up easily.

Nagendar Sharma, BBC : If that cannot be done, is there any thinking to improve the publictransport, so that people themselves turn to other modes to reduce road congestion ?

Sheila Dikshit : Yes, Metro would be ready by 2005, by that time this network would be covering 62kms. We plan to introduce to high capacity buses and trolley buses soon, so that in some areas if publictransport is good, people can be encouraged to give up private cars.

On the other hand, see more than 12 lakh people come from nearby places like Ghaziabad, NOIDA and Gurgaonto work in Delhi, with majority of them in their cars, that is another problem.

Nagendar Sharma, BBC : But what about the old circular rail line? Why are the stations of this railnot linked to buses ?

Sheila Dikshit : See the problem is this rail does not attract the passengers as the metro appearsto be doing, this is what the Railways has told us, but still we think that it is connected to the buses.

Transcript courtesy, BBC Hindi Radio