'Money's A Coward'

Joint press conference of US defense secretary with Pakistan foreign minister at the Ministry of ForeignAffairs in Islamabad, Pakistan. Full text.

Abdul Sattar: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is an honored and, I should say, welcome guest on a noble mission for peacein our region. He has had a very cordial meeting with the president, General Pervez Musharraf, this afternoon.Their discussions were in depth and addressed both the situation in Afghanistan and the problem betweenPakistan and India. They have expressed total satisfaction at the ongoing cooperation between the twocountries in the fight against terrorism in Afghanistan, and they have, of course, discussed at very greatlength the situation obtaining in relations between Pakistan and India.

It is fortunate for the people of South Asia at this time that the world community, starting from theUnited States across the European Union to Russia, China and Japan, are all on the side of peace and areinvesting efforts for de-escalation of tensions and promotion of dialogue to bring peace into our region.President George W. Bush has specifically invested a lot of his time and attention to this end. Secretary ofState Colin Powell and Secretary Rumsfeld have been indefatigable in their diplomacy for peace in our region.President Musharraf and his government have extended full cooperation in these efforts for peace.

De-escalation is obviously the immediate priority. Even more encouraging for us is the United States'policy to remain engaged in this region for a lasting solution of the Kashmir problem. Efforts need to besustained so that the root cause of the recurrent tensions between Pakistan and India is addressed in ameaningful manner. A settlement of the Kashmir question, in conformity with the principles of justice andinternational law, will ensure the establishment of durable peace and normalization of relations betweenPakistan and India. With these words, I am going to request Secretary Rumsfeld to address you, and afterwardsdepending on the limited time that the secretary has, we will take short questions. Mr. Secretary.

Donald Rumsfeld: Thank you very much, Mr. Minister, and good afternoon. We have had good meetings here today and with thepresident, as the minister indicated, and also with General Aziz Khan and his staff and needless to say, Ithanked the president and the minister for the superb cooperation that the United States has received, and thecoalition countries have received, with respect to Operation Enduring Freedom and the global war on terrorism.

I also expressed appreciation for the president's leadership in helping to work through the current crisisand, as the minister indicated, the goal of certainly President Bush and Secretary Colin Powell, PrimeMinister Blair and so many other leaders around the world, is to see that the tensions are reduced, and Ithink that, progress is indeed being made.

The only other thing I would say is to agree with the minister's characterization of our discussions andemphasize that the relationship between the United States and Pakistan, quite apart from the coalition and ourbilateral relationships with respect to the war on terrorism, is an important bilateral relationship for theUnited States. We value the growing, constructive political and economic and military to militaryrelationships that we have developed and look forward to seeing them strengthened each week and each month andeach year as we go forward. So it's been a good, good visit, and we'd be happy to respond to some questions.

Question: Mr. Defense Secretary, this is with reference to your statement in India about the indications of alQaeda operating along the Line of Control. A similar statement you had made back home in the U.S. as well acouple of weeks ago. We want to know what's the factual basis of your statement, number one, and, related tothat, did it play itself out in your meeting with General Pervez Musharraf today?

Rumsfeld: I think what I said in the United States, and on this trip in earlier stops, is what I know to be the facts,and the facts are that I do not have evidence and the United States does not have evidence of al Qaeda inKashmir. We do have a good deal of scraps of intelligence that come in from people saying that they believe alQaeda are in Kashmir or in various locations. It tends to be speculative; it is not actionable; it is notverifiable, and I believe I made that clearly, that distinction clear, when I responded to a question inDelhi, I think. In any event, that is, in so far as I know, that is the situation, and I did express thatduring one or more of my discussions here in Pakistan.

Could I add one thing? I'm sorry: I should say one other thing about that. The cooperation between theUnited States and Pakistan on the subject of al Qaeda is so close and so intimate and so cooperative that ifthere were any -- if there happened to be -- any actionable intelligence as to al Qaeda anywhere in thiscountry, there is no doubt in my mind but that the Pakistan government would go find them and deal with them.

Question: I just wonder if I could ask Mr. Rumsfeld whether he thinks it is possible to draw a distinction betweenfreedom fighters and terrorists, and if so, where you will draw that line?

Rumsfeld: I think there -- that people -- let me put it this way: regardless of what someone calls themselves -- andone would think people would always want to characterize what they're doing in the most positive way --regardless of how one might characterize what they are doing, anyone who goes around and kills innocent menwomen and children is a terrorist, quite apart from what may be rattling around in their head as to why theydo it.

Question: Mr. Secretary, you have made [a statement] that India has progressed towards de-escalation in a very,very --

Rumsfeld: I am sorry. I'm sorry: could you please start over? I'm losing some of the words.

Question: Mr. Secretary, you have said that India has progressed a little bit for de-escalation in the region bypulling back its troops and naval ships. Do you consider, as U.S. Secretary of Defense, that India hassubstantially moved back for de-escalation and helping peace to take place in the region?

Rumsfeld: Well, I apologize: I got about three out of four words, and I may not answer it as well as I would have if I'dheard the whole question. And -- the world has watched as a million people looked across borders at eachother, armed, and has been concerned. And as the tension has gone up the concern has gone up. And I must saythat I am -- I think that the world has been, in recent days, observing leadership that has contributed to thereduction of some of that tension, although the facts on the ground in large measure still remain at a stateof reasonably high alert.

So what's happened is not so much that the forces have gone to lower levels of alert status, but ratherthat the steps that have been announced and taken -- the indication of an effort to reduce infiltration acrossthe LoC, the announcements made by the Indian government with respect to the movement of their fleets south,the public indication of the willingness to return the high commissioner -- and leadership here in Pakistan,it seems to me, have left the world with the impression -- the correct impression -- that we have leadershipthat is concerned and determined that steps be taken to de-escalate the tension.

And I think that's a healthy thing, a good thing, and I told the president, Mr. Musharraf, that I recognizethat and have respect for the steps that are being taken.

Sattar: I just want to add one word that, maybe the fourth, you didn't hear the fourth word, Mr. Secretary, you saidthree out of four words.

Rumsfeld: Right --

Sattar: The president has said that we welcome the steps, however marginal, that India has taken which have had acertain psychological impact, but there is no change whatsoever in the capability of the Indian forces massedon our borders and the Line of Control. Therefore, there is no real reduction in the threat.

Question: Secretary Rumsfeld, having completed your meetings in both India and Pakistan, and following up on thecomment that the minister just made, what is your assessment of the willingness of either side, eithercountry, to make substantial military reductions in Kashmir, in the short term, or to enter into a directdialogue on Kashmir?

Rumsfeld: Of course those decisions are up to those sovereign nations, and they are going to make them in their ownway, in their own time, as they should. And what other countries can do is to meet with both sides and visitwith them about the situation, and try to be helpful and, that's what takes place by many countries and manyleaders, both in person and on the phone.

With respect to force reductions, it seems to me that those things -- first of all, it's very stressful onforces to be maintained for long periods on high alert. It costs money; it's hard on soldiers and sailors andmarines, it's hard on families, and it's hard on budgets. And my impression is that we're at a point where,instead of having this tension continue to go up, we're beginning to feel the stresses of high alerts. And onewould hope that the pressures of those stresses would result over time in a -- whatever way it might bemanifested, somewhat reduced alert status for those forces as each side measures and calibrates and decidesthat they can afford to do that. But that, of course, is up to them.

With respect to dialogue, there's no question but that countries need to talk to each other. They needdiplomatic relations, in my view; they need to have ways of communicating with each other on simple thingssuch as road connections and rail connections and air connections. They have people living on opposite sidesof borders in relatively close proximity, with things that need to be sorted out, and that doesn't happen whenthere is a breach. So clearly, if they have significant issues like Kashmir, at some point countries find waysto communicate. And how they do that, on what basis they do it, whether it gets done before elections orduring elections or after elections, are really decisions for them, and only they can make those decisions.But simply looking at history and the nature of mankind, we know that ultimately there has to becommunication.

Question: (inaudible) -- Pakistan, that without the blessing of United States of America, India cannot dare tobring its forces on Pakistan's borders; Pakistan is your ally, former ally in SEATO and CENTO, and you havejust mentioned superb cooperation between Pakistan and America in Afghanistan. Pakistani people want to knowthat instead of cosmetic steps, don't you think there should be withdrawal of forces and opening of dialoguebetween India and Pakistan? What steps America will do?

Rumsfeld: Wow! I'm always impressed when someone can speak for the population of an entire country. I don't know quitehow to answer your question. The United States is a country, and we care about the success of this country. Wethink it's important that the nuclear threshold not be lowered; we think it's important that the people ofthis country, and of your neighbor, India, prosper and succeed and have opportunities.

And if I know anything as a former businessman, it is: when there is an instability, when there is atension, people make decisions to not invest, to not travel, to not build a plant, to not expand a plant, tonot buy something, and they back off. Why? Because the power in this world of ours is not in governments, thepower in this world of ours is in people. It's in individuals, it's in companies and organizations who makedecisions every day of the week, and as long as there is a tension here --

When I was a businessman, I could sit in my office in Chicago, and I could decide if I wanted to build aplant in country A or B or C. And needless to say, today with a tense situation between these two countries,any businessman that went to their board of directors and said, well, board of directors, I think I'll build aplant in South Asia right now; the board of directors would say, "Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute.Aren't they -- don't they have forces on each other's borders? Don't they have a tense situation? Aren't theynot talking?

And investments don't get made. Money's a coward. People vote with their feet and their pocket books, andtheir -- those decisions are getting made every day. And the people of this country, and the people of India,are going to benefit enormously as the tensions continue to come down, as I believe they can and should, inthe period ahead.

Sattar: Mr. Secretary, if I may just add one word: first of all, Pakistan greatly welcomes and appreciates theefforts the United States administration -- yourself, your colleagues -- have been making in the interest ofpeace in our region. I think what the gentleman has said can be translated into one sentence. We expect moreof the United States.

Rumsfeld: Well, then, let me say this: we keep trying to expect more of ourselves, but there is no magic wand in thisworld. In the last analysis, people - countries -- sort out their own problems. They can do it with some help-- and goodness knows that help's available -- but problems get sorted out on the ground.

Question: Mr. Minister, what is Pakistan's perception of al Qaeda cells being inside this country, and wouldPakistan allow U.S. troops to go after those cells potentially on their own?

Sattar: Pakistani authorities are doing all that we can in order to locate and identify any al Qaeda cells orindividuals in our country. We are very grateful to the United States for the assistance that U.S. agencieshave provided to us in the form of locating these people, their addresses and so on. All the operationsagainst these people have been conducted by Pakistani forces. Police, paramilitary forces have conducted theseoperations, and while I can't presume to speak for the secretary, my general perception is that the U.S. issatisfied with the work that our own forces have been doing in order to take action against al Qaedaindividuals and cells who manage to enter Pakistan.

Question: Do you believe that it's a significant number here?

Sattar: Well, as you know, only a few weeks ago, with the help of the U.S. agencies, we were able to locate quite afew people in Faisalabad and in Lahore. And I am very glad to say that our forces conducted a most efficientoperation overnight and were able to apprehend and arrest these people for further action. And we continue towelcome such assistance from the United States.

Rumsfeld: Let me -- may I just comment on it briefly? The cooperation we have received from this government has beentruly wonderful. We have received -- every reasonable approach has been responded to in a responsible and aconstructive and a prompt way. The cross-border operation is a difficult situation. If people can move acrossthe border in remote locations, it is a complication, it's a scene in a difficult effort to track down people.Even there, if you think about it, this government, despite the tension on their eastern border, has keptlarge numbers of troops on their western border, on their Afghanistan border, enabling us to do work on theAfghan side of the border that has been very, very helpful.

So I would also add that the government here has arrested -- I don't know how many people, but a very largenumber of al Qaeda and Taliban. We have benefited from that by intelligence gathering information that hashelped the United States and other countries all across the globe in gathering information and intelligencethat enables us to work to prevent additional terrorist attacks. We've got to keep in mind what this is about:this is about people who go around the world killing innocent men women and children, and our task is togather information so we can stop those attacks from happening.

Question: Mr. Minister, did Secretary Rumsfeld come here with a specific message for Pakistan from India in termsof something that India would like Pakistan to do? And if so, what is Pakistan's response?

Rumsfeld: Now, instead of asking Rumsfeld, which she could have, she asked you because she knows what my answer wouldbe: that I don't talk about private meetings. (Laughter.)

Sattar: I think, Mr. Secretary, you should answer the question but I want to preface it with one remark: thegovernment and people of Pakistan are deeply grateful to the United States for the role of good offices thatit has been performing in the crisis ever since December 2001. Mr. Secretary -- (inaudible) I think Mr.Secretary --

Rumsfeld: No, I've answered --

Question:1 No, but the mike has been given to me, Mr. Secretary. My question to you is that you were quoted assaying in the press that you are bringing some proposal for establishing a mechanism to verify theinfiltration, the so-called infiltration, across the Line of Control. Have you discussed any proposal with thePakistani president and authorities with regard to the establishment of such system?

Question: 2 Let me supplement to this question, Mr. Secretary. India and New Delhi both are endorsing the viewthat the so-called infiltration from across the border is lessened. On the other side, India has unleashed [a]reign of terror in the part of Kashmir controlled by New Delhi. Mr. Secretary, Indians have arrested threepolitical leaders who are for the political solution of the Kashmir problem. Would you care to comment? WillUnited States of America do something to control the human rights violations in the part of Kashmir controlledby India, and does it concern you, Mr. Secretary, that what is happening across the LoC now with the peoplewho are asking for peaceful solution of that problem? Thank you.