Transcripts - III

{The nextmeeting with BJP President Bangaru Laxman takes place in the New Year. By now,the token advance of Laxman had been whittled down by West End to Rs. 1 lakhfrom Rs. 5 lakh. This after presenting a gold chain to his other secretary,Sathyamurthi, and a token amount of Rs. 10,000 to Raju Venkatesh. All this forthe sole purpose that they would project West End as a very big and crediblecompany to Bangaru Laxman . Credible, of course, in this context, meant thecapacity to give huge kickbacks.}

TEHELKA:I have met Mr. Gupta.
BANGARU LAXMAN: This I do not know because...

TEHELKA: No, sir. What will give…my identification? Mr. Gupta told mehe arranged the meeting.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Leave Mr. Gupta.

TEHELKA: Okay, I will.
BANGARU LAXMAN: You have come directly.

TEHELKA:I have come directly. I have my credibility. My company's having thecredibility. I don't need to meet through you, Mr. Gupta.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Okay, don't argue.

TEHELKA: Mr. Gupta told me, "I will think about it." So I said,"I am an Indian. I came directly to meet you."
BANGARU LAXMAN: He told you?

TEHELKA: There is…there is…no need. You do not ask company to doeverything for you…every time. Sir, we have some…promotional projects. Thereis no problem…absolutely nothing? Hain! I am asking you?
BANGARU LAXMAN: No…I don't know how you…you came into his contactbut….

TEHELKA: No. I contact that…they…they approached us. They told theyare doing liaisoning work of BJP. That he...he is a trustee of RSS. So thenMurli Madhavan told me that he talked to you for 10 lakhs. And you asked for 20lakhs only…for this issue.… My boss came to know. "If Mr. BANGARULAXMAN takes Rs. 20 lakh?" then he asked me not to give. That is thething, sir, I want to need clarification. Sir, I can…I can…I can comedirectly to you? There is no need for party men.
BANGARU LAXMAN: You come direct. One day casually I asked him….

TEHELKA: Hmm…Yeah, yeah.
BANGARU LAXMAN: We have…he said.

[Bangaru Laxman appears in the frame for a few seconds and later the frame movesback to T.]

BANGARU LAXMAN: …He said how things we don't normally involve….I saidokay.
TEHELKA: No, that. No, we have a lot of other things. Power projects andlot of things we have. You know, once we are starting from the binoculars. Youknow, several times he asked me, "I want to introduce.... I will go tointroduce Mr. Bangaru…. Mr. BANGARU LAXMAN." I said this, "Iam an Indian. I don't know Hindi very well." So I said, "Yes, I am anIndian. I can go directly meet…meet him. I have the company credibility there.Company's just like…bigger than Tata. You know, I can go directly to meet Mr. BANGARULAXMAN. He can understand my position. Isn't it?"

BANGARU LAXMAN: Accha.
TEHELKA: Isn't it? There is…I don't need any commitment from you also.

BANGARU LAXMAN: All right. Meeting was set. I'm your…

[Frame shifts back and forth.]

TEHELKA: All right. …Satya...
BANGARU LAXMAN: Directly contact me.

TEHELKA: Hmm?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Talk directly.
TEHELKA: Hmm.

BANGARU LAXMAN: First he [Sathyamurthi] will fix up appointment.
TEHELKA: Yeah.

TEHELKA: Sir, can…can I give you one lakh rupees for it? For a token.My…

[Sound of door opening and closing. Somebody enters and says something toBangaru Laxman offscreen and leaves.]

TEHELKA: Sir, my boss is here. In…in…a…in Oberoiexecutive...executive suite.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Accha.

TEHELKA: So he also wants to meet you.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Accha.

TEHELKA: So, can you arrange the appointment tomorrow? Can you arrange?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Tomorrow?

TEHELKA: Hmm. So….

[Camera shifts towards Bangaru Laxman]

TEHELKA: So he will come and meet you. So will you…uh…what I told toMr. Satya that matter.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm.

[Bangaru is fully in the frame now]

TEHELKA: For the party fund.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm.

TEHELKA: I have five lakh rupees.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm.

TEHELKA: And today I will give you one lakh rupees. For just thebeginning. A New Year gift.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm, hmm.

TEHELKA: Okay? But…but…but, tell me, sir, very frankly, Mr. R.K.GUPTA told me he arranged the meeting. Outside the….

BANGARU LAXMAN: I do not know what exactly transpired between you andhim. He just…he was mentioning….
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: (quoting R.K. GUPTA): "Sir, are youinterested in that work? Would you entertain?" I said he's already met meand…

[Camera shifts towards Tehelka]

[Tehelka takes out wads of currency notes and hands them over to BangaruLaxman]

TEHELKA: Sir, this is a small gift… small gift.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Oh, no, no…
TEHELKA: It's a small gift for the New Year party. Right?

[Frame again shifts towardsBangaru Laxman]

[Bangaru Laxman opens the drawer, takes money from Tehelkaand puts it away]

TEHELKA: New Year party fund, hain? One lakh rupee, hain?

[Pause]

TEHELKA: So what time can I call my boss here?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Tomorrow…hmm…

[T's mobile phone rings]

BANGARU LAXMAN: …Five o'clock.
TEHELKA: Yeah, in five o'clock. In here?

TEHELKA: And then…rupee.
BANGARU LAXMAN: When do you…?

TEHELKA: Tomorrow. Rupee or dollar?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Dollars. You can give dollars.

TEHELKA: Okay. We can give you dollars. Sir, we need your blessing.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Okay.

TEHELKA: Okay. I will not take Mr. R.K. GUPTA to…. I can comedirectly to you. Anytime I need I will make appointment with Mr Satyamurthy.Okay?

[Bangaru Laxman rises. They shake hands.]

{The thirdmeeting with Bangaru Laxman took place with Alvin D'Souza, president of WestEnd. Laxman was expecting a sum of around $25,000 from West End. We didn't wantto tell them that there was no sum to be delivered till after the meeting wheneverything would already be on tape. Here Laxman talks about how the BJP andVajpayee use Principal Secretary Brajesh Mishra as the guy who pushes theirdeals. Mishra, incidentally, is the National Security Adviser. Both Laxman andWest End argue that R.K. GUPTA had no hand in the meeting.}

TEHELKA:I'm Alvin D'Souza.
TEHELKA: And he is…Mr. BANGARU LAXMAN, president, party inpower. They are the ruling party. The biggest political party.
BANGARU LAXMAN: You are based in…?

TEHELKA: Based in London. We have interests in Telecom, Power, Aviationand Defence, obviously. We are trying to get a foothold in the Indian defencemarket through hand-held thermal cameras. Night vision. And if there's aprospect of something in…we'll be prepared to do it at a very no-profit basisif it gives us an entry into the Indian market. In that sense. We just wantedyour blessings on the project. And Mathew's telling me there's a slight problemin that.

TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah, sir. What is the problem? I told Mr. Krishna alsothis matter. There is basically one Israeli company there. So they are basicallyEl-Op, El-Op. So one Mr. Brajesh…Mr. Brajesh Mishra, that principal secretaryto PM, he is supporting that company very, very openly. So you know at thattime, you know, he won't allow that third company in the picture.

TEHELKA: So that is not that formidable a problem.
TEHELKA: Exactly, exactly…I said…yeah, yeah.
TEHELKA (interrupts): You can solve it.

TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I, I convinced my boss that Mr. BANGARULAXMAN can give that, the political cover in this matter.

[Pause]

TEHELKA: Did you show him our brochures?
TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah. I did.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Yes, I've seen.

[Pause]

TEHELKA:And did you see any other things that…basically how to approach it?Considerable work has been done on the users side…military…they all likedthe product. And they foresee no problems in it going through. It's the fourthgeneration.
BANGARU LAXMAN: (interrupts): …on Brajesh Mishra? How?
TEHELKA: That…that defence people told me, that officers told me, thatbureaucrats also told me this matter.

[Pause]

TEHELKA: Do you see that as…
BANGARU LAXMAN: You see, also there is the PNC [Price NegotiationCommittee]? Tehelka: Sir, there is a PNC there but there is lot ofprocess there before PNC. You know they have to first…evaluation, and thenshort-listing, and then the PNC will come. You know, they are not allowedto…third party inside that…in the evaluation. That is a…

[Pause]

TEHELKA: Are you experienced with defence matters generally?
BANGARU LAXMAN: (nods in assurance): Hmm. No, my experience is…

[Pause]

TEHELKA: Mr. R.K. Gupta told me on that day, I told you, na?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Hmm.

TEHELKA (continues): That through you, sir, he can breakthat one. I said, "I don't, I don't want to…I don't need any third partyto meet Mr. Bangaru Laxman I can go directly to meet Mr. Bangaru." So heasked me 20 lakhs for the meeting to you. I said, "If…but in front of meI cannot…I can give that money to Mr. Bangaru Laxman in a party fund."Sir, that, that also I told Satya also we are ready to give 4 to 5 per cent ascommission. [Laxman nods] Political commission. That other…that we haveto give…rest of that we have to give separate.

TEHELKA: Do we do it with the treasurer? I don't know how do we proceedin this. Do we wire transfer the money?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Yeah, yeah. I will tell you….
TEHELKA: Okay.

[Pause]

TEHELKA: Do you see any problems in that? I mean, we…we are not sayingthat…that this has to happen, in the sense that it's sacramount. But even ifwe have a 25 per cent chance, we're willing to take the risk.
BANGARU LAXMAN: (nodding): That's true.

TEHELKA: So tell me what exactly is the procedure? If you could just tellme the details.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Look…no. Probably you may be knowing the procedurebetter than me.

TEHELKA: Yeah, yeah. That's why I was here. But things don't move inIndia without some political….
BANGARU LAXMAN: Yes, that is true, provided…. We shall try to dothat…
TEHELKA: Yeah.

[Pause]

BANGARU LAXMAN: (continuing): So far we have been taking the helpof Brajesh Mishra to organise this because Brajesh Mishra is there on a numberof committees apart from Principal Secretary to Prime Minister.
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: And any defence issues, he is…
TEHELKA: Yeah!

BANGARU LAXMAN: (continuing): We normally turn to him because hehas access to the Defence, Foreign and other related ministries.
TEHELKA: Yeah.

BANGARU LAXMAN: But in this you said that somebody…
TEHELKA: Yeah. I don't know how true that thing is. I mean, it's justthat somebody told us. It could be wrong. We're not sure.

BANGARU LAXMAN: Yes. I will…(nods)
TEHELKA: And basically, is he the only person with influence? I'm sureyou carry more influence than him.

BANGARU LAXMAN: It's like…. No, he deals with the bureaucracy….
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: (continuing): And also conveys the views ofthe bureaucracy to Prime Minister. So he is the liaison between the bureaucracyand the Prime Minister Tehelka: Prime Minister. Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: So…therefore, whatever we tell to Prime Minister, healso normally have a word with Mishra.
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: And then certain things he will say that "No, no,you convey this to Mishra…"
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN (continuing): "…You pass on this informationto Mishra…." That's how things here….
TEHELKA: Okay. So basically he is the lynchpin in all the dealings?

[Laxman nods]

BANGARU LAXMAN: He is. But I'll find out all this information.
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN (continuing): But since this is a…the superiorthing, I think they shouldn't have any kind of…
Tehelka (completing Laxman's sentence): Major roadblock onit?

[Laxman nods]

TEHELKA: Okay.
BANGARU LAXMAN: At…in any case, I'll…. What would be the total worthof the…?
TEHELKA: It could be anything above 200 crores, as they say. So about 50million dollars to 60 million dollars. But then, if you give us the whole order,then that's, like, much more. It'll go up to, like, 600 [crore], so that wouldbe about, I guess, 180 million dollars or something. Two hundred milliondollars.

[Laxman nods]

TEHELKA (continuing): That's…that's …it's much easier for usto transfer funds abroad than deal within India on a day-to-day basis. So we'llcome to know tomorrow or something? Is there…you don't deal with…. There's aMr. Ranjan Bhattacharya also, I'm told. Is he also important?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Well, he is a family member of Prime Minister.
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: And…he does something. But these things I don't thinkhe will get involved.
TEHELKA: Accha. I was told that he's got a…I mean, lots of projects andall being moved. I don't know how far it's true….

BANGARU LAXMAN: Maybe. I don't say that he might be involving himself inmany other things. But as far as defence things are concerned, I don't think hehas much.
TEHELKA: Yeah.

BANGARU LAXMAN: Somewhat in power projects. This and that.
TEHELKA: Yeah. I believe in Enron he had a major hand to play. And wouldit be like…their accounts, I believe….I mean which banking nerve centers doyou operate in? Do you use Zurich or which cities do you use?

BANGARU LAXMAN: You have to consult our treasurer who will be dealingwith this.
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: I will have to find out from him first. I have taken overrecently. I was not dealing with these matters earlier…
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: (continuing): …when I was in party. So I willhave to check up from him. In such cases what…
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: And so far, you have yet to start. Certain things arein…still in the pipeline. That through establish agent who maintains a liaisonwith the supplier and also with the government.
TEHELKA: Okay.

BANGARULAXMAN (continuing):And government, through us.
TEHELKA: Yeah.

[Sound of door opening and closing]

TEHELKA: Yeah, no, no.

BANGARU LAXMAN: Therefore, I will….
TEHELKA: Okay, but who'd be the main person we deal with? I mean, wouldyou give us a point man? We will deal with him.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Oh sure.

TEHELKA: Is Satya okay?
BANGARU LAXMAN: No, not Satya.
TEHELKA: Not Satya? Okay.

BANGARU LAXMAN: We will, I will give you…

TEHELKA: Okay.
BANGARU LAXMAN: Let me get in touch with those people. I will tell youtomorrow. I will find out from my treasurer and I will let you know.

{Throughoutthe meeting Bangaru Laxman had the expectancy that Alvin D'Souza would just openhis briefcase and out would come some odd $25,000. But that was not to be. Inthe end he asks himself.}

TEHELKA:Okay. So should we meet again tomorrow? Possible? Some time tomorrow?
BANGARU LAXMAN: Yes. You will ring me and then you come?

TEHELKA: Yeah? It will be more convenient. We were supposed to conveysome money today and as you can understand my problem…getting dollars was alittle hassly and we didn't get it the way we want. So is it possible that Icould come tomorrow with the dollars?

BANGARU LAXMAN: Yeah, yeah.
TEHELKA: Yeah? So what time around? Should we give you a call and come?