According to Mbeki's spokesman, Ricky Naidoo, Mishra met with South Africa's de facto president for 20 minutes, which he described as a "courtesy call". He said that he was "not aware" whether the nuclear testing issue had been broached between the two. Naidoo said, however, that Mishra had held "substantive discussions" with Pahad. Dr Abdul Minty, deputy director general of South Africa's foreign affairs department for multilateral issues, including nuclear disarmament, who sat in on the meetings between Mishra and Pahad, said: "We had discussions on various matters with regard to the NAM meeting". He confirmed that the Indian nuclear tests was also one of the issues discussed. "We had an envoy from India and another from Pakistan and both put forward their positions on the testing. We listened to them," added Dr Minty cryptically.