'Sermons For The Poor'

The transcript of BBC Hindi special programme Aapki Baat BBC Ke Saath withenvironmentalist and director of Centre for Science & Environment, Dr SunitaNarain

Nagendar Sharma: Would you say that the climate change due to risingpollution levels throughout the world is a greater threat to human and plantlife than even terrorism?

Sunita Narain: I think it is. The disastrous effects of climate changeare visible and are in fact growing. Hurricanes, cyclones, used to be a milderform, but today they have taken the shape of a Tsunami and a Katrina. I am notsaying that the sole reason is climate change, but that we are playing havocwith environment. Scientific research shows that unless we start respectingenvironmental concerns - and soon - it may be too late for future generations

Listener from Shillong: The rich and powerful countries are mainlyresponsible for pollution by means of poisonous emissions, whether we look atChernobyl, or the recent blast in a petrochemical plant in China. America’srefusal to accept the Kyoto protocol is a major example. Can’t theenvironmentalists the world over do anything to prevent the powerful fromdestroying the ecological balance?

Sunita Narain: You have raised a very valid query, and I would like tosay that the challenge facing us is even greater what you have mentioned.Environment is directly linked to our model of development. Let us first look atourselves without talking big: What are we doing ourselves? Burning fuel topollute the environment. What does this pollution do? It increases thetemperature. If locally we could, at our individual levels, ensure that we donot pollute, we would be playing a role at the macro level to minimise theglobal warming throughout the world.

What has happened during the past century or so is that the developedcountries of today have held the world to ransom by their developmentalpolicies. These nations did not bother at all about environment, did not thinkabout the pollution and emissions with the result that today the world is facedwith the grave danger of rise in temperature, and global warming. Now if thedeveloping countries also want to follow the same policies, then it would nottake much to know where the world is heading.

Nagendar Sharma: In such circumstances, what realistic hopes are therefrom the UN conference on climate change beginning in Montreal from Monday (28^thNov), as it is being seen as 'make or break' for the Kyoto agreement ?

Sunita Narain : During the past decade, we have seen hectic consultationsat the international level to reduce gas emissions. EU countries, especiallyBritain, had set ambitious targets for themselves, but could not achieve them.The major reason is because they were not able to change their developmentalpolicies. However, these are countries which were at least paying lip-service. Onthe other hand, we had countries like America and Australia which areunrepentant for their negative roles in green house gas emissions. Thesecountries have gone to the extent of saying that they would not take any stepsfor rectification.

Now coming to Montreal, I apprehend that both the US and the EU would putpressure on China and India that they must think about the world: Since we couldnot cut emissions, you must do so since you are densely populated!

Nagendar Sharma: But why have countries of the world failed in their repeated effortsto convince or pressure America to accept the Kyoto agreement?

Sunita Narain: We must be very clear that this issue is not merelyconfined to environment. When you talk of Kyoto it is directly linked withdevelopment. Now before talking about America, let us look at our own country,and that would answer your question as to why the countries have failed inconvincing America.

We must first of all admit that India has so far not been serious in meetingthe challenge of climate change. Look at the effort we are making for puttingour point across at the WTO, commerce minister Kamal Nath is touring countryafter country to garner support for our stand. Unfortunately on the crucialissue of climate change, which can ruin us completely -- first naturally with therise in temperature, and secondly, internationally we may be forced to slow downdevelopmental works in the country -- neither thePrime Minister nor any of his ministers have taken Montreal seriously. It isunfortunate that no top level preparation has been done for such an importantevent. Depending on an officer or two would not help the country's cause. Thisis happening because we in India think environment is somebody else’s concern.If you are yourself serious then only can you talk of others.

Nagendar Sharma: But with whatever preparation India has done so far, in your view,what strategy should India adopt along with other developing nations at Montreal?

Sunita Narain : India should take the lead at Montreal and on behalf ofdeveloping countries our stand should be that we need time for developmentand in this, due to fuel consumption, pollution would be there, but we must begiven time for rectification. Next, developed countries should help us indevelopment and we should clearly say we do not want pollution spreadingdevelopmental policies. This would not happen overnight, for this thepowerful countries should provide adequate financial help to the developingcountries, and finally joint efforts would be required from developed as well asdeveloping countries to fight global warming and restore natural balance.

Listener from Bangalore: Environmentalists talk a lot aboutecological balance, but is it possible for any country to abandondevelopment for environment or do you think a balance could be struck betweendevelopment and environment?

Sunita Narain: I would like to answer your question with the example of yourcity itself. Today 300-400 hundred cars are being added to Bangalore everyday,with the result of congestion on roads and unending addition in pollution. Nextwould be more flyovers and widening of roads to accommodate the road rush,perhaps something like Delhi. However no amount of flyovers or roads would besufficient to cope with such a vehicular increase on the roads.

What is requiredis strengthening of the public transport in the form of buses and trains. Ifsomehow the elite could be convinced that their prestige would not be lowered bytravelling in public transport, we would be able to bring down pollution levelsconsiderably. Now coming to the balance between development and environment, I thinkMontreal provides us with another opportunity to put our view strongly that wedo not want development at the cost of environment, and the example of Bangaloreshows that if we want to cut pollution levels, then for strengthening publictransport, we need financial support from the developed world and not just sermons.

Listener from Haryana: Given the vulnerability of developing world andthe arrogance of developed world, would Montreal conference be only for therecords or do you see any concrete progress ï'½" a ray of hope?

Sunita Narain: I do not see any hope for countries like India at theMontreal conference. On the contrary, I fear the developmental model ofdeveloping nations would be severely criticised. I think developing nationsshould try and project a united front. The developing world should convince thepowerful nations that climate change is a threat for developing and developedworld alike and collective efforts are required, otherwise this conference would alsoend up as a sermon for the poor countries.

Nagendar Sharma: Why has Britain done a complete turnaround on Kyoto, from its earlierstand of persuading America Tony Blair now says the world must understand theAmerican viewpoint?

Sunita Narain: There has been a turnaround in British stand on its ownemission cut promises as well. It took an ambitious target, and has failed incompleting it. Britain had also said earlier that it would rectify itsdevelopmental policies to adopt an environmental friendly atmosphere, butmiserably failed in doing so. Since the beginning of this year Blair begansaying America is not wrong in having ignored the Kyoto Protocol and countriesround the world should understand its viewpoint. Again this is guided by otherconsiderations, and environment has taken a backseat.

Listener from Delhi: Why should developing countries face theconsequences for the environmental wrongdoings of developed countries?

Sunita Narain: They should not, ideally, but then the focus and united effortsof developing countries should be in this direction, which I find lacking at themoment. There is no doubt that developed countries adopted wrong models fortheir respective developments, and are mainly responsible for ecologicaldisturbances across the world. They are now asking countries like India andChina to take the lead in rectifying their mistakes.

These powerful nations first spread pollution and when the mess is complete,they do not even take responsibility. The blunders which we are making today in playing havoc with environment isalready showing its effects as reflected by terrible Tsunamis and Katrinas. Ifall of us do not mend our ways, further disasters await us. The whole world wouldhave to stand up in defending environment, otherwise soon we may not haveanswers for this.