'Power Of The People'

Full transcript of the BBC Hindi Special programme Aapki Baat BBC Ke Saath with actor and MPSunil Dutt on Can the common people of India and Pakistan pressure their governments for friendlyrelations?

Nagendar Sharma : How can the common people help in normalising relations between India and Pakistan ?

Sunil Dutt : I begin by saying this proverb – voice of common people is the voice of God. I feel that itis the power of the people only that can force the governments on both sides of the border to create a newfriendly environment in the region. If the common people want, the governments can be forced to do so.

BBC listener from California : For any solution of problems between India and Pakistan, both sides wouldhave to give and take. But if any government on either side is to take such a drastic step, people would have tostand solidly behind that government. Do you think that people would back compromise; are any steps being taken inthis direction?

Sunil Dutt : People back all peace moves. Let me give you an example – in 1999, I was part of themovement called ‘Hands Across the Border’. As a part of that expedition, we toured all the SAARC nations byjeep. Unfortunately, we could not go to Pakistan as Kargil had started by that time. We went to all othermember countries, handed memoranda to the Prime Ministers and Foreign Ministers, saying that all SAARCcountries should cut their defence expenditures by five percent, and this amount be spent on povertyalleviation, health, literacy and basic provisions such as water. After the SAARC member countries attain basicfacilities, then they should sit across the table and discuss problematic issues.

Look at the European countries, how they solved the basic problems concerning the people first and todaythey are one on so many issues. I have been to Pakistan and have found the people friendly. Similarly, when anyone from Pakistan comes toIndia we receive them with open arms, whether it has been Mehdi Hasan, Reshma or the delegations ofstudents. I feel that cultural exchanges and other similar activities help in people coming together, knowing eachother and remove the misgivings. This has to be strengthened.

BBC listener from Ambala : An atmosphere of goodwill seems to be there at the moment. Channels of transportand communications are now opened. All peace loving people are making efforts – whether MPs, artists,intellectuals - but still this has not become a mass movement. Look at the people of two Germanys, how theypulled down the wall of Berlin. Why have people like you not been able to provide leadership for a movement of such intensity ?

Sunil Dutt : Leadership comes from people’s movements. Leaders do not drop from heaven . Democracy inIndia is still in its childhood, and that is why we are dividing ourselves on the basis of caste and religion,especially to get votes. It would take time for democracy in India to mature, and then would the people beable to judge the words and deeds of their leaders. Once we understand, that this is our country and we have to be one to solve big problems, then would yousee movements and hence leadership.

BBC listener from Karachi : It is said that art knows no boundaries and therefore artists cannot berestricted within boundaries. This is the message we often hear from people coming into Pakistan from theIndian film industry, but how come that the same industry churns out movies with ultra-nationalist themes likeGadar and  LoC Kargil, don’t you see a contradiction in it ?

Sunil Dutt : This is a very good question. Basically, it depends on the environment. It is the media whichcreates an environment of any particular kind. I feel that it is the atmosphere of a particular kind, perhapsstrange, which leads to such films being made.

Personally, I do not agree with films of the particular kind, which would perhaps create further walls.What I want is that the people of the two countries should not think themselves as different, they should have a likeminded thinking. Take Kargil as the latest example. At such a time, an atmosphere of a strange kind iscreated. During such times, what do you read in the newspapers? What do you see and hear?

It is this atmosphere of a particular time that I am talking about. This encourages producers to go infor such films based on patriotic themes, but I feel this does not help. Instead, it gives rise to a feelingof hatred. This should not happen, if we want to live in peace in both the countries, in an atmosphere ofbrotherhood.

BBC listener from UP : But then why are such films on war etc., made in the first place ?

Sunil Dutt : I am saying that films are made in keeping with the atmosphere prevailing at a particulartime. Now if you are talking about Kargil, it is a reality. It has taken place, and has a permanent place inhistory. Had it been a fiction or a wrong story, then it would have deserved a different comment. Remember,films have been made to expose the evils of dowry and untouchability. I had made a film on dowry in 1989, whenabout five thousand girls had been killed due to dowry. Good films are also made.

These things would remain. But when big leaders sit down and come up with a lasting solution, people forgetsuch small things. Go back in history and look at Hitler’s deeds and what happened in Germany, Belgium etc. Buttoday those countries are working together, they are economically strong now. Therefore if we create an atmosphereof amity and goodwill, such things would not last long.

Nagendar Sharma : But don’t you think such films of patriotic themes are made keeping financial interests in mind ?

Sunil Dutt : Film makers would have to honour the sentiments of the people. I remember, when the war withChina was on, all big film makers produced patriotic songs, and they were picturised. Kavi Pradeep had writtenae mere watan ke logon, zaraa aankh meN bhar lo paani, jo shaheed hue haiN, unkii zaraa yaad karo qurbaanii 

These things happen in such atmospheres. Artists get inspired to do things for the nation. Kaifi Azmi hadwritten patriotically during the 1965 war.

BBC listener from Delhi : Let me tell you first of all, I am a displaced Kashmiri Pandit, now living inDelhi. Can the gun and friendship go hand in hand? Can we trust Gen Musharraf, who could spray bulletsanytime?

Sunil Dutt : I feel that when you sit across the table, without trusting each other, do not expect anyresult. Please trust each other, this is a big opportunity. I am not talking about America, I am directlyreferring to India and Pakistan. People in both the countries want peace, let the atmosphere of calm be there,guns would themselves fall by the wayside.

If you remember in 1987, violence was at its peak in Punjab. When I decided to undertake a padyatra fromMumbai to Amritsar, I received direct death threats. I was warned by friends against going there. But when Ifinally went there, met with all types of people, those threatening me also understood that I am a man ofpeace. The lesson from their for today is to create a good atmosphere, it would be of immense help.

BBC listener from Dhanbad : Can India trust Pakistan, and make friends with a country which is directlyresponsible for making countless children orphans, wives widows and old parents cry for young men’s deathsin Kashmir? Should we talk to such a country which is not sincere ?

Sunil Dutt : See, had our neighbour not been sincere, I think that Atal Behari Vajpayee would not havetravelled to Islamabad. There was a cloud of uncertainty on his visit, but he decided to go, as the relationsbetween the two neighbours were steadily improving over the year.

When you visit a country and talk to its leaders, you break the ice, which would help in saving our children,wives and young people’s lives. For doing that you would have to create an atmosphere. If you think thateveryone is your enemy, then this world cannot move. Therefore trust each other and live in peace. I havelived the horrific time of partition, more than ten lakh people were killed and there were countlessatrocities. I used to think at that time that I would never forget those days. But today, it looks like a bad dream, we have all been successful in moving forward from those bloodytimes. Our leaders showed us the path to move forward. Today again we have a great chance for peace in theregion. Let us grab it.

I assure you that 95 percent people in this country want peace. Recently I toured from Golden Temple inAmritsar to Vaishno Devi and then to Hazratbal in Srinagar. I met people from all religions. I was reallypleased to see the desire for peace. It is only a small percentage which does not want peace. It is the dutyof all of us to change the mind of those who want to spread hatred.

When I announced my padyatra from Mumbai to Amritsar, there was a general feeling that I would fall downafter walking about 100 kms as I am an actor, but the will for peace saw me walk for two thousand kilometers. The keyfor peace is the will.