No Parallels

Question: I wonder if you discussed between you nuclear proliferation and whether you would agree that in fact it was India and Pakistan and of course Israel which have led to the current situation where it frankly appears that proliferation is going to continue to other countries, as we are seeing in North Korea, with the west pretty much unable to do anything about it?

Tony Blair: Well obviously we will be debating and discussing these issues over lunch. We had a brief word about them before. I have to tell you that my view is that North Korea is a very different situation altogether. They are in clear breach of their international obligations and whereas a country like India has been very strong on counter-proliferation, North Korea is going in the opposite direction. It is a very, very serious situation, we are discussing it with key allies now. But the tragedy of North Korea is not just this nuclear test, which is worrying for all the very obvious reasons, it is what is happening in the country of North Korea where its people literally are living in oppression, mass poverty and starvation in some cases while they spend billions of dollars on nuclear weapons, and it is a tragedy. But the only way of dealing with it is to deal with it through a revitalisation of the six party talks and to make sure that North Korea comes back into compliance with its international obligations. And I should say also that I welcome the strong stand that China has taken on this, I think that is important, but we will work closely together in making sure that we deal with this situation. But I regard North Korea as very much a separate case for all the reasons that I have given.

Manmohan Singh: Well I agree with what Prime Minister Blair has said. India has expressed deep concern over the DKR nuclear test. It is a violation of its international commitments. India had supported the six party talks which was intended to achieve the goal of denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula. I wish to state that a further erosion of the non-proliferation regime is not in our interest. We do not support the emergence of another nuclear weapon state. The North Korea test highlights the dangers of clandestine proliferation. In fact India's own security has suffered due to clandestine proliferation linkages relating from our neighbours. Prime Minister Blair and I expressed concern about the nuclear test putting in jeopardy the stability and security in the Korean Peninsula and I endorse what the Prime Minister has said, that there is no parallel between India's policies and what has happened in North Korea. We will remain in touch with the United Kingdom on this matter.

Question: Prime Minister Blair, the Cold War ended 15 years ago but Britain continues to rely on the possession of nuclear weapons and nuclear weapons have a salient position in your overall security doctrine, despite the absence of any obvious threat. If a country like Britain can continue to cling to nuclear weapons as an integral part of its own security calculus, why should we be shocked or surprised if a country like North Korea decides to emulate you?

Tony Blair: I think we have really got to get this argument clear in the international community because otherwise we end up with making comparisons that are completely false. We have a set of international obligations that we adhere to. The difference between a country like Britain or a country like India, and a country like North Korea, is that we are democracies, we abide by the rule of law, we abide by our international obligations. North Korea is doing none of those things. And this is of course a matter of judgment in the end, but here is a country—North Korea—doing a nuclear test in complete breach of all the obligations it has entered into, doing so in circumstances where its people are kept virtually in a position of slavery and where as I say people die of starvation whilst money is spent on nuclear weapons. Now I think as a matter of common sense people can see the difference between that and a country like Britain or a country like India where we are actually trying to work against proliferation of nuclear weapons and where we are proper functioning democracies.

Question: I wanted to ask about the payments to overseas troops, I know that the details are being announced later and I won't expect you to go into the details, but why is it that these payments are being made now when troops have been in Iraq for three years and in Afghanistan for five years? Has it got anything to do with certain campaigns being run in newspapers?

Tony Blair: Look, it is a perfectly fair point, why now? But I think this recent campaign in Afghanistan, which is absolutely vital for our security, for the broader security of the region and the world, has brought home to us that our troops today, along with the troops I may say of many other countries, are facing dangers and facing a type of conflict that a few years back they were unlikely to face, and I think it is important that we recognise that. And that is the purpose of making sure that we give some proper recognition to the exceptional dangers that they are facing, which I am afraid for us and indeed for other countries are becoming parts of the conflicts that we have to face in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in different parts of the world, and I think it is a recognition of that and I think this has been building actually for quite some time and I feel it is the fair thing to do. And I think there are other issues also that we want to look at for our troops because you know these people are at the frontline of a very, very tough struggle indeed and if you had asked me a few years ago could we have anticipated being in these struggles for these lengths of time, I would have said no. But today we and many, many other countries are facing the same type of situation, the same type of challenge and I think it is right to recognise it.

Question: Prime Minister Blair, if I could put this question to you. As Dr Singh said just a short while ago that India has concerns about clandestine or illegal transfer of nuclear technology, would you share that concern in the context of the North Korean nuclear test?

Tony Blair: Yes, I think the Prime Minister is absolutely right. Look, some of what we have tried to do in the past few years has been to tighten up on the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, technology, transfer of such weapons and so on, and it is worth saying that there has been some significant success there as well. There are countries that have come in from the cold on these types of issues, like Libya, there are networks like that of A Q Khan that have been shut down, there has been a significant amount of progress. But the Prime Minister is absolutely right in stressing the fact that this is a battle that continues the entire time and that is why it is important that we get back into the six party talks that offer the best way of ensuring that stability is returned to the region. And obviously both of us will work very closely to that effect, but the dangers of proliferation can be seen by what has happened you know just in the past few days.

Question: My question is addressed to the Prime Minister of India. Mr Prime Minister there have been reports that Pakistan and India have agreed to set up a working group on Kashmir. Would you like to confirm or deny it? And the second part of my question is that India has accused Pakistan in involvement in the Mumbai bomb blast, but Pakistan has said that if you provide the proof it is ready to cooperate, to probe and punish the culprits. Would you like to comment on that?

Manmohan Singh: My answer to your second question is yes, we will take advantage of that offer of Pakistan and we will provide what we consider as credible evidence to that effect. Now as regards your first question, you must have read the joint statement issued by me and President Musharraf after our meeting in Havana. We have reaffirmed our commitment to discuss and resolve all outstanding issues, including the issue ofJammu and Kashmir. In addition we have agreed to set up an institutional mechanism to deal with terrorist threats and that mechanism is now in the process of being worked out.

Question: Since the last summit meeting has the sense and understanding of Pakistan's role in abetting terrorism increased among the two of you?

Tony Blair: Well I think that we are both agreed that we have got to send the strongest possible signal everywhere that terrorism cannot be tolerated, whether it is in Mumbai, whether it is in London, whether it is in Kashmir, wherever it is. Terrorism is something that we should not tolerate and no country, no government, no state should support it. And obviously I think the meeting that the Prime Minister held with President Musharraf in Havana had a positive outcome, I met President Musharraf myself a couple of weeks ago and we went back over this ground. It is important that we all carry on working to make sure that terrorism does not stop decent people making progress on issues that are difficult. And the tragedy of the modern world I am afraid is that this terrorism is everywhere and there is only one solution to it, which is for the decent moderate people to come together and stand up for the values of tolerance and respect for other people, whether they are from the Christian, the Jewish, the Muslim, the Hindu religion or any other, and I hope that that message is understood by everybody but obviously it is important we reinforce it all the time, and we do.