'No meeting Has Been Fixed With Pakistan'

Question: I want to ask whether any bilateral meeting between PM and his counterpart at SAARC summit have been fixed?

Shashank: No meeting has been fixed with Pakistan. We have received proposals from Bangladesh, Nepal and Sri Lanka formeetings and these are being worked out.

Question: Today the Defence Minister said that infiltration is going at the same rate like last year. What is theassessment of Foreign Office in this regard?

Shashank: This has been our feeling also that the cross border infiltration has not stopped. It had only slowed down,partly because of winter months and therefore the feeling was that we have to see it over a period of time andit should be also the dismantling of the infrastructure and training and other roots that need to be totallyblocked.

Question: Does that mean that no substantial dialogue can take place?

Shashank: I would only say that no meeting has been fixed.

Question: Given the recent assassination attempts on General Musharraf, how safe is it for the Prime Minister to travelto Islamabad?

Shashank: I would request my colleague to give the information that he has received about the blast today.

Question: inaudible……………

Shashank: Naturally everybody has to be concerned about the safety of the leaders and SAARC summit is an importantoccasion. We also have a commitment to carry forward the SAARC process. President Musharraf has himself saidthat he is the target, not the other leaders and therefore there should be no threat to any other leader andthey are making foolproof arrangements.

Question:….inaudible

Shashank: They are making foolproof arrangements and so we are going on that basis that there should be foolproofarrangements and PM is a respected leader in SAARC and Asia and therefore the Prime minister would go thereand attend the SAARC summit.

Question: According to published reports, the talks held in Islamabad on December 23 and 24 were virtually stalled byBangladesh. Could you please clarify?

S.S.  Kapoor: Yes, as I said already on these issues there have been difficulties but our own assessment is that it is anongoing process. Negotiations are very slow. We believe that these issues are not something which cannot besolved. There has to be accommodation on both sides and I must assure you that we have been very reasonableand very flexible and we have tried the best we could have in order to meet this objective.

Question: Are you satisfied with security arrangements in Islamabad?

Shashank: We’ll tell you when we come back about the level of satisfaction.

Question: There has been a draft circulated by Pakistan for SAARC summit, which contains only one para on resolution onterrorism as against five paras in the Kathmandu summit resolution. Don’t you think that it is ironic thatthe host country is not trying…..

Shashank: Well you know all countries of SAARC have joined the coalition against terrorism so that is the startingpoint. They are all members of the SAARC Convention on Terrorism of 1987. There are certain monitoringmechanisms which have been put in place by the UNSC, the committee on monitoring terrorism and under UNSCresolution 1373 periodic reports are required to be submitted. So that is going on. All the SAARC countrieshave been giving the reports. They are being monitored and wherever there are weaknesses they are pointed outand then more details are sought. It always happens that whenever a draft is submitted its only a draft, andthen as all the members countries come together they put their ideas and ultimately a document emerges whichis the consensus document and what you are referring to previous documents are the consensus documents andthis one is a draft. Naturally, they will have to go through this cycle of negotiations. The basic point isthat all of them are committed to it and its a drafting exercise. I am sure we should be able to take care ofthat part.

Question: In the last meeting of experts on the protocol there was a difference between India and Pakistan even on thedefinition of terrorism…….

Shashank: Well that is a difference which has gone on for a long time. The Comprehensive Convention on Terrorism whichhas been sponsored by India and has been co-sponsored by a very large number of countries in the world in theUN General Assembly has not been able to make progress because of the issue of definitions. We feel that theremight be a particular issue that is in reference to Palestine, which can be attempted for a different type ofsolution without really stopping progress on the adoption of the Comprehensive Convention on Terrorism. Sameview has been taken by us even on the additional protocol that if there is an issue which is separate likePalestine, that need not block the progress and adopting an additional protocol which is really bringingtogether once again the obligations which are undertaken by the countries in the UN context or in thebilateral context they are setting it up with various other countries.

Question: The Prime Minister has said that he is willing to meet anyone at SAARC without hesitation. Why then are we soshy about saying that we are going to meet someone? Is it like "Pehle Aap Pehle Aap."?

Shashank: I was very clear in my enunciation earlier that requests have been received from Bangladesh, Nepal and SriLanka and we are working on those meetings. No meeting has been fixed for Pakistan but obviously there wouldbe occasions when the leaders would be together during the conference, during the retreat and along with otherleaders also. So those occasions would be there.

Question: Do we have Indian security arrangements for PM in Islamabad or are we relying on Pakistan? You seem to implythat all countries in the region are complying with UNSCR 1373. Are we satisfied with Pakistan’s response onthis?

Shashank: First issue: I would not respond to that because security aspects we have to take care but not discuss them.Second part: 1373, I did not say that we are satisfied. I only said that they are all complying in sending themonitoring reports and wherever there are deficiencies they are being pointed out and Indians have beenpointing out these deficiencies in the Pakistani reports. But you wanted a specific answer so I have given itto you.

Question: Following the blast, did PM write a letter to Musharraf?

Shashank: The official spokesperson had made a statement and that takes care of the decision at the highest level.

Question: PM is going to Pakistan after two assassination attempts on President Musharraf in less than two weeks. Isthere a message to Pakistan and the wider world in this?

Shashank: As I said earlier there is a commitment to the SAARC process which has to be carried forward. As you know theSAARC meeting is taking place after a certain gap and there is no doubt that the incidents of terrorism haveincreased within Pakistan itself because what was happening earlier in Middle East moved gradually toAfghanistan and now to Pakistan. Pakistan has become the epicentre for terrorism all over the world and it issuffering itself also. But that does not mean that security cannot be taken care of and President Musharrafhas offered full security for the visiting leaders from SAARC.

Question: How important is President Musharraf as an individual to ongoing efforts to normalize relations between Indiaand Pakistan?

Shashank: As you know we have made considerable progress in the technical level talks. Airlinks are due to start fromJanuary 1, Samjhauta Express from January 15, so the process is going on and it is making good progress. Inthe course of SAFTA negotiations, we have seen positive attitude on the part of Pakistani delegation as alsowe have seen certain sense of enthusiasm for making success of the SAARC summit, partly, as I have mentionedthat he has offered full security to all the visiting leaders and visiting delegations for the SAARC.

Question: There are so many places of historical importance in Pakistan, which Indians want to visit. Are we doingsomething to make them more accessible to Indians?

Arun Singh: There is already a bilateral protocol between the two countries which regulates the movement of pilgrims fromboth sides. So, at the moment the aim is to implement that protocol.

Question: Is PM going to make a customary call on President Musharraf or the Prime Minister (Jamali) as is the protocolfor SAARC?

Shashank: Whatever programmes have been developed for the SAARC summit would be followed and I presume that as per theprogramme that we have seen so far there is a dinner engagement to be hosted by President Musharraf.

Question: A small clarification, you have said that you have received requests for meetings from Bangladesh and SriLanka but not from Pakistan. What if you receive it in another hour or so?

Shashank: As regards Pakistan I have already said that no meeting has been fixed. You can draw your own conclusions onthat.

Question: India has been doing fencing along LoC for past some time. At the same time Pakistan also announced ceasefirealong the LoC. Is that an indication to make LoC as the International border which was the unwrittenunderstanding of the Simla Agreement.

Shashank: Everyone knows about the Simla Agreement. As for any unwritten part of the agreement, I am not aware of that.But if the composite dialogue is to begin, it has to be carried on the basis of Simla Aagreement and Lahoreprocess.

Question: P.N. Dhar, the secretary of the Ex-PM, has mentioned in his book about this unwritten part of the ShimlaAgreement between Bhutto and Indira Gandhi.

Shashank: I am not aware of any such unwritten or unsaid agreement. I am only aware of some of the interviews publishedin Pakistan - Bhutto had said that he had come with a very good agreement for a losing nation which evendefeated Europeans were not able to get. As far as fencing on the LoC is concerned, that is an operationalrequirement. India’s position on the entire state of Jammu and Kashmir being part of India remains.

Question: Will India be making an example of Bhutan’s action and will it be trying to make it a part of SAARC draftdeclaration?

Shashank: Definitely it will form part of the discussions and if there is a consensus we can include it in the portionsrelating to activities against terrorists.

Question: You have just referred to composite dialogue. What is the likelihood of it taking off at the SAARC summit?What is the possibility of India making LoC a soft border?

Shashank: As far as composite dialogue is concerned the government has said very clearly that we need to have assessmenton a longer term basis of the process of stopping of cross border infiltration and the real action against theinfrastructure of the terrorists. So that will lead to the composite dialogue to be started and that will bedone at the right time. In the meantime as you know progress has been made on the technical negotiations andthat is going on.

We already have some proposals on the table. We have proposed the bus link between Srinagar and Muzaffarabad.

Question: Are you implying that once the bus service between Srinagar and Muzaffarabad starts, it will make LoC a softborder?

Shashank: What I mean is that we are trying to encourage people-to-people contacts. That is the exercise which is goingon at the technical level. We are encouraging air links, bus links, steamer links, train links in differentparts. That process is going on right now.

Question: Do you think that India–Pakistan issues would derail the agenda of SAARC summit - a multilateral summit?

Shashank: Very rightly so. That is why we are going to concentrate on the SAARC Summit, on the agenda of the Summit andin making the Summit a success.

Question: And not distracted by India and Pakistan issues…...

Shashank: All these issues are there. The leaders are meeting. They will be exchanging views. I am not saying that theywill not be meeting in retreat and on various social occasions which will be there. But the point is thatemphasis of everyone is on SAARC. That is the important objective that we must all come together and whatother regions, like some regions of Asia, have been able to achieve, we should also be able to achieve andmake progress on the economic cooperation.

Question: You have said that no meeting has been fixed (between India and Pakistan). Was any meeting sought by eitherside?

Shashank: I can only repeat once again that no meeting has been fixed.

Question: Any meeting at Foreign Ministers’ level?

Shashank: No meeting means no meeting.

Question: Under 1997 agreement of Foreign Secretary’s J & K and security issues……(inaudible). Do you think itis time to discuss these issues?

Shashank: As I said Pakistan is a member of coalition against terrorism. India has already offered several times that ifthey are not able to take care of the terrorists coming across to the Indian side, India would be willing tocooperate with them. Our Foreign Minister has made that offer several times.

Question: Do you think bilateral mechanisms are necessary at this stage?

Shashank: We will wait for a response from the Pakistani side. The offer has been made.

Question: Without the resolution of intractable problems between India and Pakistan, do you think there can be progresson regional trade issues? My second question is to Mr. Kapoor: Was there any discussion on Rules of Originissue?

S.S. Kapoor: No, our sense is that on the trade issues there has been a very significant movement in the last one-year orso between India and Pakistan because you focus your attention on that aspect. As you would have heard in thefourth round of SAFTA there is preferential trading arrangement. That has been a very meaningful exchange. Inthe third round of SAFTA, which was concluded in 1999, the exchange of concessions between India and Pakistanwas limited precisely to 18 tariff lines each. It was nothing but tokenism, but in the fourth round which wasconcluded earlier this month in Kathmandu the exchange has been expanded to 485 lines - 262 from our sides and223 from their side. This by itself is significant and our sense is that Pakistan is also equally keen toconclude SAFTA. Elsewhere the world is moving and I think everyone is watching us. We feel that SAFTA shouldbe something which can lead to better trade between us.

On the Rules of Origin, yes, there has been some discussion, in fact India proposed Rules of Origin as we wereasked to do so by the committee. But because we have not been able to conclude our discussions, this is one ofthe issues like the discussion on the sensitive product coverage list that will be carried out. After thesigning we need about a year/year-and-half to conclude those discussions. It is for this reason that we haveagreed that if the SAFTA is signed at the summit then it will become operational from 1.1.2006. So that’show we stand.

Question: You have said that no bilateral meeting has been fixed with Pakistan. If you are meeting Bangladesh, why hasIndia not taken initiative with Pakistan? Why shy away from meeting bilaterally? Is there lack of confidence?What is the point stopping you?

Shashank: Our positions are already very clear on the ground and we are going in for the SAARC summit. So, as far as weare concerned our main focus is on the SAARC summit. Of course if some leaders have expressed interest inmeeting Prime Minister for some issues, we are working out those meetings. As far as other occasions whenthere would be interactions with the other leaders, I have already said that yes with the Pakistan PrimeMinister and also other leaders there will be occasions at various functions.

Question: Why shy away? Why cannot India take initiative?

Shashank: I am saying that we have already taken very far-reaching initiatives, so we are waiting for the response. Onthe issue relating to cross border terrorism as we become more assured over a longer period, we should be ableto move forward on the composite dialogue.

Question: Do you think you are optimistic about Pakistan on SAFTA? Are some LDCs acting on behest of others? What isyour reading of Bangladesh?

S.S. Kapoor: I don’t think I should be commenting on that. I can say on the basis of my experience of negotiations - Ihave been leading the delegation of India in the COE - on most issues we have had common stand and we feelthat they are keen to finalise this. As regards the issue of whether some LDCs are acting at their behest, Ithink it is only speculation. I don’t think it is true. I don’t think that we can come to that kind ofconclusion.