'Fund Raisers And Political Managers Have Taken Over The BJP'

Transcript of BBC Hindi special programme Aapki Baat BBC Ke Saathwith former BJP leader Uma Bharati.

Nagendar Sharma: Has Indian politics become purely personality-basedand have ideology and principles become a thing of the past?

Uma Bharti: Well, traits of hollowness can be seen in politicsinternationally, and it has different manifestations in different countries. Ifollow politics in America, Britain and India very closely. What I find is thatif it is personality cult in one country, it is lack of ideological issues inanother country --  it is superficial politics which has taken over. Therewas a time when you had people like Pandit Deen Dayal Upadhyay, JawaharlalNehru, Ram Manohar Lohia and E M S Namboodiripad. Do you have anyone in politicstoday who matches their stature?

Question from Roorkee: Umaji you are speaking about hollowness inpolitics, and it is correct that it is only perhaps in politics where you needsolid ideological base, but what we are seeing is that leaders stay in apolitical party till it suits them and then form their own parties without anybasis. Which way are things heading?

Uma Bharti: Well, it is the duty of political workers to ensure thattheir party does not deviate from the basic principles for which it was formed.If it does, workers have to put pressure on leaders and see that hollowness doesnot take over. However, what is presently happening is that fund raisers andpolitical managers have taken over the parties. This is a dangerous trend whichneeds to be reversed and I have confidence in the people of this country thatthey would do it. We should not forget the might of voters -- after all theymade mighty leaders like Indira Gandhi bite the dust in 1977 after theemergency. Another disturbing trend seen in last two decades is the rise ofcastesism, and I am pained to say that people of our country have been swayed bythis wrong trend in some areas. These trends need to be reversed.

Question from Gwalior: Umaji, you were one of the frontline leaders ofBJP and the main architect of their victory in Madhya Pradesh assembly electionsin November 2003. Why is it that you decided to part ways with a party of whichyou had been part and parcel for decades? Isn't it a clear sign of unfulfilledpersonal ambitions?

Uma Bharti : Yes, I had been a part of this movement for decades, butwhen I found that the basic principles for which the BJP had been formed werenot being followed and the party had been taken over by political managers andfund raisers, I decided to raise my voice against it. However, I found that thevoice of genuine party workers and leaders attached with the masses was notbeing heard, there was no way left other than to provide a new body to the BJPsoul, for which I have taken the lead. Unfortunately, the tragedy of BJP hasbeen that when the culture of political management spread in the country, suchmanagers began to dominate the party and stalwarts like Atal Behari Vajpayee andL K Advani did not play the role which was expected of them, which led to theweakening of the party. At such a time, by getting out of this mess I havefulfilled my national duty, as the option before me was to either become likethese political managers or not to accept the hijacking of the party and I chosethe latter. I could not have been a part of the process of corporatisation ofpolitics where fund raisers were taking the place of political leaders.

Nagendar Sharma: But Uma Bharti, the reality of Indian politics hasbeen that leaders who have left main political parties have not been able to domuch, especially when you look at parties like the BJP and Left, who callthemselves cadre-based parties.

Uma Bharti: The problem is that media looks at only one aspect of thewhole thing. You are talking about those leaders who have been unsuccessfulafter leaving their parties or having been thrown out of their parties. Pleasealso talk about leaders like V P Singh, who after leaving the Congress partybrought it to such a position that after he left the party in 1988, it has neverbeen able to come back to power on its own; even today, the Congress party hasbeen forced to run a coalition government. Also do not forget the CPI split of1964, which resulted in the formation of CPI(M), which has been successfullyheading a state government in west Bengal for nearly 30 years now. Why do youforget that Jayalalitha formed her own party coming out of the parent outfit,also do not forget Chandrababu Naidu’s party. Similarly, did Chandrashekharnot leave his own party? Why do you recall only unsuccessful names? Whilediscussing leaders who left their parties or were thrown out, mention thesuccessful names also.

Question from Bihar: Umaji, these days the trend in major politicalparties is to push back the leaders with a mass base. One such example is you.Many senior ministers in NDA government were those who could not win an electionand similar is the case with UPA government. Is that the reason for increasingdisconnect among the people and the leaders ?

Uma Bharti : Well, I do not think that those who cannot win anelection should not be made ministers. An individual may not be a popular massleader but could be a good minister. What is required is a mix of leaders with abase and those who are otherwise capable. What has happened in BJP and othermain parties, as I said earlier, is that political managers have hijacked theparties.

Question from Indore: Umaji, whatever you may say after being expelledfrom the party, but the fact remains that you were part of the BJP-led NDAgovernment which was in power for almost six years. Can you tell us what did youdo for the construction of Ram temple at that time?

Uma Bharti : During the last days of NDA government, we had madeserious efforts for the construction of Ram temple at Ayodhya and had held talkswith Atalji. He had entrusted the responsibility of this work to me and ArunJaitley, but some officials of the PMO who wanted a way out for the templeconstruction, did not favour any role for the VHP in this. Such an attitude ofthese officials complicated the issue which led to delays. The efforts were tohand over the undisputed site of Lord Ram's birth place to Ram Janam Bhoomi Nyas,and there was no problem as this land was under the control of Centralgovernment.

Nagendar Sharma: But this has been one of the core issues of BJP'spolitics and if there was no problem in handing over undisputed land to RamJanam Bhoomi Nyas, why did it not happen?

Uma Bharti : That is what I am going to tell. When our efforts wereon, assembly elections came in Delhi, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and Chattisgarhin November 2003. BJP victory in assembly elections in three states gave a falseimpression to the then party president Venkaiah Naidu that it was because of himthat the party emerged victorious. He along with two-three other leaders floatedthe idea that the BJP-led NDA alliance would be able to win a third consecutiveterm at the centre, and at a later time the temple construction could be broughton agenda. These leaders said if the temple issue was raked up at that juncture,it might lead to disintegration of NDA and feared that it could lead to losingthe general elections. Therefore in the greed of forming a government third timeconsecutively at the centre, these leaders gave up the temple issue, despite thebest efforts from people like me, they sacrificed the basic aim of the party.

Question from Delhi: Umaji, after being out of the party now you aretalking about corporatisation culture in the BJP and its leadership's greed fora third term at centre being responsible for the Ram temple not having beenconstructed in Ayodhya, but is it not a fact that had they made you the ChiefMinister of Madhya Pradesh you would not have been saying all this. On on theother hand, the country has a leader like Sonia Gandhi who first refused PrimeMinistership two years back and has now even resigned as an MP. Isn't she as aleader taller than all others?

Uma Bharti : Let me first make it clear to you that I had myself givenup the chief ministership of Madhya Pradesh, why should I have later clamouredfor a post which I had voluntarily given up earlier? I would not give anyfurther clarification on this issue.

So far as your praise of Sonia Gandhi is concerned, let me tell you that sheis the leader who had imposed mid-term elections on the country in 1999. How canyou forget that? Don't you remember how she had gone to Rashtrapati Bhawan afterVajpayee government fell by one vote in April 1999 and had claimed the supportof 272 MPs, which, in the end, she did not have. Similarly she had gone toRashtrapati Bhavan in May 2004 in the hope of becoming the Prime Minister. Itwas only after she came out from there did she say that she did not want to bethe Prime Minister. Did she tell the nation what transpired inside in herconversation?

Even now, when attempts are being made to anoint her as a saint, please lookcarefully into the circumstances under which she was forced to resign. It wasthe fear of being disqualified as she was holding an office of profit. Why didshe not resign earlier on her own when Jaya Bachchan issue had come up? Theproblem is that common people are being swayed by the media campaign, andefforts are being made to project this woman of foreign origin as a tall leader,but the reality is otherwise.

Nagendar Sharma: Uma Bharti, you have announced the launch of a newparty on April 30. What does the new party plan to do?

Uma Bharti : On April 30, in Varanasi, we would like all those whofirmly believe in the ideology of Deen Dayal Upadhyay to come and join handswith us in the launch of a new party. Based on our basic principles, I amconfident that in 10 years' time we would be peaking and would be on the centre-stageof Indian politics. Those who have given up the party ideology would be wipedout from politics. The new party would have no hesitation in forging an alliancewith those who believe and respect our principles.