'De-escalation, De-escalization Or De-escalatory Action'

PTV: Mr. Secretary, what is the main purpose of your visit to India andPakistan? What are you basically trying to achieve?

Colin Powell: Well, I hope that as a result of my visit we can keep theprocess moving forward to find a solution to the current crisis between Indiaand Pakistan. I am somewhat encouraged. I think that President Musharraf gave avery historic speech this past weekend, an important speech about the way aheadfor Pakistan – stop violence, stop terrorism, deal with fundamentalism and usejihad for the purpose of improving the lives of people, not taking the lives ofpeople. 

It was a very important speech on his part, and recognized as such by thePakistani people, recognized as such by the international community, and I thinkthe Indian response was quite measured and I think they are reflecting on thespeech. We’ve also seen actions taken in response to that speech so I want tolearn more about what President Musharraf plans to do with respect toimplementing the words of his speech and then I want to go consult with myIndian associates, my Indian colleagues, and continue to assess their reactionto the speech so we can start moving in a de-escalatory way.

I think the speech in itself was de-escalatory and the actions he has takensince are de-escalatory. We want to find ways to de-escalate militarily,de-escalate some of the political and diplomatic steps that have been taken inrecent weeks, such as the overflight restraints and traffic back and forthacross the border, and hopefully we are moving in that direction now. Be patientbut I think my presence shows the importance that President Bush attaches tothis issue and the desire to find a peaceful solution. We really cannot have awar in South Asia, and we have to find a way to work our way through thiscrisis.

PTV: Do you think there’s a possibility of initiating shuttle diplomacyin the region in order to bring India and Pakistan to the dialogue table?

Colin Powell I don’t know if shuttle diplomacy is the right answer.Good will is what is really necessary and as we work our way out of this crisisit should be obvious to everyone that what we do need is dialogue between Indiaand Pakistan on all of the outstanding issues, to include Kashmir. Both sideshave expressed a willingness for such a dialogue, and I think we have to getthrough this current crisis. But as soon as we are through, then I think weshould have a dialogue. The United States is willing to help the two sides beginsuch a dialogue but the dialogue has to be between them and not withintermediaries, but between them. And so phone diplomacy these days is sometimesas effective as shuttle diplomacy and I can assure you, I have a very largephone bill.

PTV: Pakistan is ready to de-escalate and to hold talks but New Delhi isputting conditions. After your meeting in Islamabad, do you think you will beable to convince New Delhi to come to the dialogue table?

Colin Powell What I want to do is learn all I can here in Islamabadabout what President Musharraf is planning, not only in the intermediate termbut in the long term, take all that information with me to New Delhi and speakto the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister there, get their assessment ofwhat’s happened, and see if I can bridge the differences, bridge whateveroutstanding differences there are that will keep us from de-escalating this assoon as possible. De-escalation, de-escalization or de-escalatory action, iswhat we’re looking for right now.

PTV: There is a growing perception among the Pakistani people thatAmerica is again siding with the Indians by speaking their language andaccepting their demands. This has given India to come out with their arms buildup. Would you like to comment on this perception?

Colin Powell It’s not a correct perception. The United States is afriend to both nations, to both Pakistan and India, and especially sincePresident Musharraf made his bold decision after the events of the 11^thof September, I think we have shown that we can be a reliable partner withPakistan once again. And we want to help Pakistan in every way possible to dealwith this current crisis, and we are anxious to help Pakistan with its economicdifficulties and with the reformation that President Musharraf has laid out forhis country. President Bush asked me just the other day, "How can we helpwith the reformation of their school system, with making sure the madrassas arenow educating youngsters as well as indoctrinating youngsters?" And soAmerica wishes to be a friend to Pakistan and a friend to India. To the extentthat we have good relations with both countries, then I think we are in aposition to help both countries deal with the differences that exist betweenthem.

PTV: President General Pervez Musharraf has asked the United Nations,Amnesty International, the human rights organizations and the internationalmedia to record the state terrorism perpetrated by India.. Would you like toopen a window by asking India to invite the (inaudible) to visit that area?

Colin Powell It seems to me that the very first thing we need to do isto get a dialogue going between the two sides, and get a listing of the issues,get an understanding of the different points of view and get a direct dialoguebetween the two sides. When that takes place then we can see what else might benecessary with respect to observers coming in and all the other things thatmight happen. But it seems to me that it would be much more effective if thiscould be the result of a dialogue between the two sides. (inaudible)

PTV: Do you think that without addressing the Kashmir issue there can beany lasting peace in the region?

Colin Powell: I think that the issue of Kashmir is an extremelyimportant one. It has been one of a number of issues but a very dominant issuefor many decades now, and ultimately if we are going to achieve the kind ofpeace we want to see here in South Asia, a dialogue must begin that will dealwith the issue of Kashmir, and in a way that will take into account the historyof the region, take into account the views of the (inaudible). And especiallytakes into account the wishes of the Kashmiri people.

PTV: What is the perception of the role of the United Nations,particularly in this region after September 11? (inaudible) What is the role ofthe United States?

Colin Powell The United States will remain engaged in South Asia andCentral Asia. We’ve made it clear that now that the military campaign inAfghanistan is starting to wind down, – we’ll be there for some months butit’s starting to wind down – we want to remain engaged in reconstructionefforts, we want to remain engaged in humanitarian efforts, we want to work withthe Central Asian republics that border Afghanistan and of course we want to beengaged more than ever with both India and Pakistan.

The issues are important, the equities that we have with the two countriesare important, and I think that both India and Pakistan will find in the UnitedStates and in President Bush an Administration and a government that wants toengage with both for the purpose of bringing peace and stability but beyondthat, to help all the people in the region lift themselves up, start to developwealth that will benefit all the people within these nations. And so economicdevelopment, the elimination of poverty, the education of young people, provingclean water, providing health, water – all of these issues are part of thejihad that President Musharraf was speaking of, and that’s what we want tohelp him with, and all of the other nations in the region.

PTV: My last question: Do you think the world is now much safer afterwaging war against terrorism?

Colin Powell The world is not yet safe from terrorism, but I think itis a little safer now that we have struck against al Qaeda in Afghanistan andthe Taliban and I think the world will be safer with each passing day as long aswe all remain engaged in this campaign against terrorism. And that’s whyit’s so important for India and Pakistan to be engaged in the campaign againstterrorism and not get engaged in a campaign against each other.

PTV: Thank you, Mr. Secretary.