Interview by Pakistan Television with the US Deputy Secretary of State,at the Residence of the U.S. Ambassador
Islamabad, Pakistan, May 8, 2003
Question : Asalam alaikum Khawateen-o-hazrat. We have a special guest today, and that is the U.S. Deputy Secretaryof State, Mr. Richard Armitage. Mr. Armitage, thank you so much for being with us on Pakistan Television.
Richard Armitage: Thank you very much for having me.
Question : You come to Pakistan at an interesting time. How would you describe the current situation between Pakistanand India, this new "rapprochement," so to speak? What level of importance are you giving that?
Richard Armitage: The United States Government gives it quite a high level of importance. I think the gesture of thephone call by Prime Minister Jamali, and the statement at Srinagar by Prime Minister Vajpayee have set a newtone, and, hopefully, the leaders on both sides will be able to take advantage of that new tone, move forwardand discuss all of the issues.
Question : Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee has suggested a number of confidence-building measures, likesporting events and people-to-people contact, and other issues like that. But for Pakistan the core issue, ofcourse, remains Kashmir. Do you see any position where these positions can be reconciled, and how can thisissue be solved?
Richard Armitage: Well, I don't dispute at all your statement that for Pakistan, Kashmir is the core issue. Of course,India has core issues as well, and their core issue may not be exactly Kashmir. From their point of view ithas to do with what they would say was unrelenting hostility from Pakistan directed towards India. So I thinkthat's why I put the focus on all aspects of this relationship have to be discussed. And I think if theatmosphere is improved on both sides on a lot of other issues, then clearly Kashmir would be able to bediscussed rationally and reasonably.
Question : OK, and one of the things that we've seen, of course, is that within the Indian ruling party, the BharataJanata Party, there are hardliners that really don't want to see any level of talks. How do you bring peoplelike that around?
Richard Armitage: Well, it's not a job for the United States to bring them around. What's going to bring them around is thehopes and aspirations of the people of India, the hopes and aspirations of the people of Kashmir - and, by theway, the hopes and aspirations of the people of Pakistan. Every body politic, whether it's here in Islamabador whether it's in Delhi, has hardliners, conservatives, liberals, etc... This is not a new phenomenon or oneunique to India.
Question : India's concern, of course, has been what they call cross-border terrorism, and Pakistan says that theyhave stopped that, or reduced it to a large extent. Now, one of the proposals that Pakistan had presented wasthat neutral observers, international observers, be placed on the Line of Control to verify Pakistan's claim.And India is not accepting that. Is there any other mechanism that could be used, do you think, to try and putat rest this controversy?
Richard Armitage: President Musharraf today was very clear: that nothing is happening across the Line of Control. He gaveabsolute assurance, further, that there were no camps in Azad Kashmir. There are any number of mechanisms, asyou correctly point out, but I think the most effective mechanism is the degree of confidence that Indians andPakistanis -- that the state of their relations is such that they can believe each other. That's the mosteffective mechanism.
Question : President Musharraf, of course, has called for a no-war pact and a nuclear-free South Asia. Is that avision worth pursuing?
Richard Armitage: Oh, I think ultimately the United States, in every part of the globe, we'd like to have nuclear-free visionsand possibilities, but I think something like that is quite a bit down the way, in terms ofconfidence-building measures. There are more immediate issues.
Question : And of course, now let's move to Afghanistan, another issues that has been, of course, very important. It'sbeen more than a year now since the Taliban have been ousted from Kabul. But President Hamid Kharzai says thathe has not received the full amount of reconstruction aid that was promised to his government. Is the worldcommunity loosing interest in Afghanistan again?
Richard Armitage: I can't speak for the whole world community, but one of the reasons that President Bush has asked me togo to Kabul tomorrow is to make a dramatic display that the United States hasn't lost interest. We put aboutnine hundred million dollars into Afghanistan last year. We're very intent on building a ring road from Kabulto Kandahar. In fact, we're buying almost all the gravel that Pakistan can manufacture for this road. So wewant to show politically that we haven't given up our vision for an Afghanistan which has a very brightfuture.
Question : But critics say that President Kharzai's government doesn't extend beyond Kabul. Is there any chance thatwe're going to see some kind of unified Afghanistan in the future?
Richard Armitage: Well, I'd say it's a complex and difficult problem, and I think that there is a degree of truth in thequestions that the critics raise about how far and wide the central government's writ extends. I think, as ageneral matter, wherever you go in Afghanistan you see that Hamid Kharzai does represent to most people acertain level of security, and that's a good base on which to move forward. And I think he's intent on movingforward.
Question : How long do you think it would take for this to happen, where Afghanistan would be in a position to standon its own, and the U.S. would withdraw its troops at some point?
Richard Armitage: Oh, I haven't a clue. I think we're quite a ways away from that. I think every day isbetter than the day before, but I wouldn't want to venture any guess. Anything I said would be wrong one wayor the other.
Question : And, of course, when you think Pakistan-Afghanistan - the whole region - then, of course, the war againstterrorism, which has been a prime factor in U.S. policy. But, recently, with the war in Iraq, there has beensome feeling in the region that perhaps American interest in the region has waned, and Iraq and the MiddleEast is more important.
Richard Armitage: Well, I don't know why one would say that. Our Assistant Secretary for South Asia has been here, Ithink, ten or eleven times in the last twelve months. I've been here four times, Secretary Powell three times.President Musharraf is coming to Washington to visit President Bush in June. And there's not a diminution ofour interest. In fact, if anything, we're very, very intent on not going through another separation withPakistan, as we had for ten years. We want a relationship that is deep, enduring and long-lasting.
Question : And, of course, the war against terrorism. I guess one question that one would ask is: When would this warbe really over? Is it going to take the arrest of, let's say, somebody like Osama Bin Laden for the U.S. todeclare that the war is now over, the war against terrorism has been won?
Richard Armitage: Our president has said that the global war against terrorism is going to last for a long time, because thereare many people intent on harming innocent civilians for political (ends). And he's not going to be stopped.Osama Bin Laden is one element in that, and the capture or death of Osama Bin Laden is a good thing, but it'sjust another milestone in a long battle - a long battle which, I might say, that Pakistan has very high stakesin the outcome. And the activities of the government and the law enforcement people of Pakistan have beenabsolutely fantastic.
Question : And, of course, talking about that, there have been several Al-Qaeda people arrested from Pakistan, one ofwhom was recently involved - or accused of being involved in the bombing of the USS Cole. Now, these kinds ofarrests, what kind of dent is that putting in Al-Qaeda's activities, and are these major intelligence gainshere?
Richard Armitage: Well, our intelligence officials tell us that they certainly are, and I think that one of the manyreasons that we've had a somewhat lessening this year in the amount of terrorism is because through jointefforts - Pakistan, the United States and many other countries - we've been able to put a real crimp in theirplans. We've been able to really strangle a lot of their funding, and this is a good thing, and, God willing,it will continue.
Question : A couple of quick questions on Iraq. And, of course, a major issue is that the war in Iraq has left a lotof damage, and the task of reconstruction is now there. How long will it take for an installation of an Iraqigovernment?
Richard Armitage: I'm sorry, I don't accept your initial premise. There was a lot of damage done in Iraq prior to the firstbullet ever being shot, because of the deliberate policy of Saddam Hussein to punish people, particularly inthe South. And you have the phenomenon now of people in Basra and Um Qasar actually receiving water andelectricity at a higher level than they did before the war. So I think the cost of reconstruction in terms ofdollars, if I may, will not be as enormous as people think. I think that the international community will berequired to stay in Iraq until security and stability are absolutely assured. And the day that is assured,we're leaving, but not before.
Question : And the coalition has, of course, arrested several leading members of the Baath Party and Iraqi scientists,but is there any further movement on discovery of weapons of mass destruction?
Richard Armitage: Well, there's been a much-publicized biological mobile van which has been discovered. It was exactly whatSecretary Powell testified to the UN Security Council on five February. I think it's a very good step in theright direction, and there's very little question in anybody's mind that we're going to get to the bottom ofweapons of mass destruction.
Question : And last question, coming back to Pakistan. You have had meetings with Prime Minister Jumali and PresidentMusharaf today. Could you give us a brief idea of what those meetings were about and what you discussed?
Richard Armitage: Well, we discussed - I could give you the general topics. First of all the bilateral U.S. relation.Second of all, Iraq, Afghanistan, of course, India. And we talked about Pakistan's chairmanship of the U.N.Security Council this month, where we'll be moving forward with a new U.N. Security Council resolution. So wehad a pretty full agenda.
Question : Mr. Armitage, thank you very much for joining us on Pakistan Television.
Richard Armitage: Thank you for having me.
