National

"A Helpless Congress Will Toe Our Line"

Kanshi Ram, who is responsible for turning the decade-old BSP into a major political force, prefers to keep a low profile on the eve of the crucial Uttar Pradesh elections. He leads one of the three key alliances in the race for power, and even the C

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"A Helpless Congress Will Toe Our Line"
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Kanshi Ram, who is responsible for turning the decade-old BSP into a major political force, prefers to keep a low profile on the eve of the crucial Uttar Pradesh elections. He leads one of the three key alliances in the race for power, and even the Congress and the Samata Party have conceded the status of senior partner to the BSP. Excerpts from an interview:

Is the BSP a social movement or a mere political party?

Basically, it's a social movement and our top priority is social transformation as well as economic emancipation of the Bahujan samaj. We are convinced that without political clout we may not be able to succeed in our goal.

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So the BSP is the instrument for that political clout?

To some extent. Coming to power might take years. But we can acquire enough clout with an effective organisation soon.

But your present strength in Parliament is not enough to help you come to power at the Centre?

We know about our strength which has been translated into a number of seats in Parliament as well as the number which has not yet been translated into such seats. But our firm belief is that even though we are not in power, we must be able to shake the chairs of those sitting there. We have, in fact, already begun making an impact that way.

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In terms of the people's and political parties' perception as well?

Yes. Dr Ambedkar used to be called a traitor, an anti-national. But once we began acquiring political clout, the Bharat Ratna was conferred on him. Even those who used to call him a stooge of the British, are now reverential towards him. Once the Congress party felt threatened in the Centre and Uttar Pradesh because of our rise, they announced a Ambedkar University in Lucknow in April 1989.

While you are critical of the Congress, and have heaped abuses on it in the past calling it a Manuvadi party, you have now entered into an electoral alliance. Will it not damage the social movement that you call it?

In our agreement with the Congress, we got a paragraph added soliciting Congress commitment to social transformation. They have pledged that they are and will be in agreement with us in our ideal for social transformation.

Is it a written agreement?

Yes, it is.

But are you convinced of the sincerity of the Congress towards the additional point in the agreement?

I am convinced by their helplessness. They will toe this line. And it will strengthen the BSP. Our forming the government will make our movement credible. It will also be a step forward to our goal to make the Bahujan samaj a 'ruling samaj'.

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Don't you think that the Janata Dal or the Samajwadi Party in Uttar Pradesh are closer to you ideologically in the sense that they are less Brahminical or lessmanuvadi?

Both the Samajwadi Party and the Janata Dal are speaking our language. So I think, it is very essential for us to eliminate them as otherwise they will cut into BSP support. With BSP's likely emergence, I am also convinced that there will be total polarisation of political parties soon.

Who will be the main players in thispolarisation?

The forces of status quo will be led by the BJP. And the other side, of course, will be led by the BSP. The Congress, which is in the process of getting marginalised, and all those wanting a social change including the Samajwadi Party, the Janata Dal and the Left will have to come to our side. But of course, much will depend on the attitude and action of these parties.

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But how can the BSP, with only 17 MPs, be one pole in 'bipolar' politics? You have far less MPs than the Congress and it may not accept you as a senior partner in the national level unlike the understanding you have in UttarPradesh?

As a matter of principle, we intend to fight more seats than the BJP at the national level. The question of seniority at the national level will be mainly decided on the basis of who would be getting more MPs in the next round of elections.

Do you think the BSP will be a ruling party in your lifetime? Who do you think should be your successor?

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Whether it happens in my lifetime or not, as a movement it is heading towards that. I am getting reconciled to the fact that the leadership should emerge out of the movement as it cannot be seen on a guru-chela basis for ever. But I also know that personality is a factor. The inner urge and capability of a person to lead make him or her a leader. For the time being, Mayawati shows both the inner urge and has been acquiring such a capability. But still there may be someone better.

Do you have any concrete alternative to the present economic policy ?

In our scheme of things, the basic agriculture industries and basic forestry employing about 20 crore people will be in the hands of the state. But a concrete and detailed policy will be charted out later.

The United Front has the support of secular parties, including the Congress, to stall the BJP from coming to power. Will opposition to the UF dilute your secular credentials?

What kind of secularism was Gowda propagating in his meeting with Bal Thackeray who wants Muslims to be treated as second-class citizens? Why doesn't Gowda honestly reveal all that had transpired in the meeting? Shall we wait for Thackeray to come out with details after the poll results in Uttar Pradesh to suit his politics?

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