Making A Difference

'No Favour If You Agree To Talk'

Pakistan foreign minister speaks to <i>Outlook</i> on his deep disappointment over Indian prime minister Manmohan Singh's decision not to visit Islamabad.

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'No Favour If You Agree To Talk'
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Earlier there was talk of Manmohan Singh comingto Pakistan. But there is a belief that a journey to Pakistan can be perilous orof great political value for an Indian leader...

All I can is that President Musharaff takes great risks, I take great risks.Otherwise, we wouldn't open our mouths. The easiest course is not to doanything. Don't move, don't talk. When you talk you can make a mistake. Whenyou walk you can make a mistake. But I would much rather that I walked andtalked. The president, prime minister and I have consistently tried to improverelations between Pakistan and India. And we would want that on the other sidethere should be somebody. We were looking forward to Manmohan Singh's visit.But why he's not coming is not for me to comment. That concerns the internalpolitics of India..

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Is there any point in his coming without anything concrete?

Yes certainly. It helps improve atmospherics. I think the very idea of theinteraction is useful, particularly after the Mumbai blasts.

There seems to be a great sense of disappointment, almost bitterness, inPakistan after India postponed the talks after the Mumbai blasts.

It's definitely a negative development. Specially since PresidentMusharaff and PM Manmohan Singh had spoken of making this process irreversibleand had said that acts of terrorism would not impede the peace process. This wasnot a meaningless statement. It was put in by their staff (in the Indo-Pak joint statement of April 2005) because they hadanticipated that forces who were not happy with the process would try to derailit. Are we playing into their hands?

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And we have to change our mindset. Neitheris India doing us a favour, nor is Pakistan doing a favour. It's not a favourto us that you agree to a dialogue. We are both big countries. Pakistan is thefifth largest country in the world. We talk to India out of conviction, not fear.I would like to tell the people of India not to fall into this trap.

I want tomake a point about the Indian media. Although you have a free media, I get theimpression that your media is not as open and free as ours in attacking theestablishment. We can't spin a story here and get away with it. They tear usto bits everyday. But how is it that your media falls into this trap?. Thirty secondsafter the Mumbai blasts, you all start going in a chorus: Pakistan. Why? I want you to please publish this. Why do you do it? We thoughtmedia would be a partner.

After the Mumbai tragedy, the statements from your home minister ShivrajPatil and your PM were very statesmanlike, very good. But what happens 48 hours later? We knewthat you knew that it was internal. But it is India's political compulsion toalways keep the option of blaming Pakistan. This question must be asked andanswered by India. If within 30 seconds of the Mumbai blasts you say Pakistan,you mislead your own police

Who are the people who want to derail the peace process?

These areextremists on both sides. There is a big industry that thrives on hate andcreating conditions of insecurity. There is also a tribe of writers who have builtup their careers cursing each other. Getting into new mind-sets is not easyand sometimes almost looks like a loss of face. When I talk I talk withconviction, I am not just making little points. I mean every word I say.

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But there is a belief, not just in India, that many terrorist groups areworking out of Pakistan. India has given you names and lists: Hizbul Mujahideen,LeT, Dawood Ibrahim?

We also gave a list to India. I don't want to go into this. What gooddoes it do? Nothing. You can go back to 1947. Let's look at today. The GDP ofboth countries cannot be sustained without peace. It is inter-related. There isa perception they create abroad that we will get into trouble but India willremain isolated. If you start looking at who did what to what, there will be nopeace. We have banned so many organisations and those who are religious orextremists are under watch. If the world believed we were training people andunleashing them on India, we would not be trusted by the US, the EU.

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There are suggestions that the Indian mind-set does not favour peace.

I attribute sanity to India. Nothing has changed on the ground after the Mumbaiblasts unless India genuinely thinks that we have planned everything.Which would be a disaster. We were making progress on Siachin, on Kashmir. Ihope the opportunity at Dhaka will not be wasted (foreign secretaries of SAARC nations meet on Jul 31-Aug 1, followed by foreign ministers meeting on Aug1-2). It is not that we don't have pressure. Do you know thatthere have been some editorials in Pakistani papers saying let's thank thegovernment of India for stopping the dialogue because this stupid Pakistanigovernmentdoes not understand that it is doing only favours towards India? I am sure thereare many people on your side too who are thrilled that the peace process hasended.

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Do you think the deepening friendship between India and the US is puttingPakistan on the back-foot?

I am glad you have asked this. Because I don't think so at all. TheUnited States is very interested in Pakistan-India friendship. This I have fromthe horse's mouth. I have acted at the highest level in the United States andthey are very interested in Pakistan and peace in the region. They say you canbe in the same bed with different dreams. (laughs)

Let me address the issue of balance. How can the Indo-US deal affect us? Weare strong today, in terms of defence and strategic balance. We cannot competewith India aircraft to aircraft, tank to tank but we have a minimum credibledeterrence. It does not mean we have to rely on nuclear weapons. Since we arenot under pressure, taking the initiative on peace is not consideredweakness. We take so many initiatives because we have a confident leadership. Itwould be completely different if Pakistan was considered weak from the defencepoint of view.

So when you say to me that because of the Indo-US relationship Pakistan feels insecure, I will reply: we feel to the contrary. As someone incharge of foreign office, I will say that now a super-power has acquired vestedinterest in peace here. We may have other grouses -- Why are you doing this withIndia? Why not with Pakistan? -- but that's totally different. But the nucleardeal has nothing to do with peace. Because we are the only country in the world,which has strong strategic and tested relationships with both the US andChina. It may be because of our geographical location, may be because ofPakistan's position in the Muslim world, and that we are the only Muslimnuclear power.

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There is a buzz in Delhi that a foreign minister will be appointed.

That's very good because it adds another channel. I had very goodrelations with Mr Natwar Singh, Mr Yashwant Sinha. I began to trust them We knewwe could be blunt and honest. And that helps relationships. I know we have todeal with whoever there is but it would be a help to have a foreign minister.

A shorter, edited version of this appears in print.
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