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Saturday, Oct 16, 2021
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Arundhati Roy On BBC Urdu

Arundhati Roy On BBC Urdu
Arundhati Roy On BBC Urdu
outlookindia.com
1970-01-01T05:30:00+05:30

On Pakistan, Taliban, Indian elite, Mumbai 26/11, Hindu Talibanisation, Kashmir, Chattisgarh and much more: BBC Urdu

***

Rushed transcript:

Pakistan zyaadaa vulnerable hai kyuuNkii woh chhoTaa bhii hai...har drone attack meN, ek al-Qaeda martaa hai to 45 aam aadmii marte haiN. maan lo ke ye haalaat India meN hotaa aur ham jo hameshaa bajrang dal yaa VHP ke khilaaf bolte haiN, yahaaN agar America aa ke bam-baari shuru karte, tou puuraa jo equation hai badal jaayegaa naa? chup thoRaa hii raheNge...

[Pakistan is more vulnerable because it is smaller. If a drone attack kills one Al-Qaeda member, it kills 45 common people. Suppose this were to happen in India and we, who always oppose the Bajrang Dal or the VHP... now suppose America were to come here and start bombing them, the whole equation would change, wouldn't it? We will surely not keep quiet.]

ab Pakistan meN puuraa jo Afghan war kaa sahmat lii gayii pahle, funding aa gayii thii aur puuraa jo fundamentalism jaan buujh ke khaRii kar dii, ab wohii chiiz Pakistan ko toR rahii hai...mujhe yeh zaruur lagtii hai ke agar Pakistan meN bahut khatraa aa jaatii hai aur puuraa collapse ho jaati hai to India ke liye woh Radcliff line meN nahii rukne waalaa.

[Now, in Pakistan, this whole Afghan war was launched with its acquiescence. Funding was given and fundamentalism created on purpose. Now the same thing is breaking it. I feel that if the danger increases in Pakistan and it collapses, it would not be contained by the Radcliff line from seeping into India.]

sab log Taliban, Taliban bolteN haiN, matlab yahaan pe..koii bhii America ke baare meN nahii boltaa hai  kyuuNkii yahaaN pe bahut kariibii hai naa media kaa matlab jo india ke corporate classes celebrate karte hain abhii.. magar aap baakii desh meN chale jaayeye to mujhe nahii lagtaa itnaa farak hai. Dantewara meN chale jaaiiye..wahaan roz hamlaa hotaa hai..roz log mar raheN hai...koii camp meN rah raheN hai...police protection meN...laakhon log jangloN meN.  jaise Dantewara meN yeh ho rahaa hai to Chennai meN test match chal rahaa hai kyyuunkii baRaa mulq hai...par bahut hii jaldii ek tarah kaa implosion yahaaN bhii ho rahaa hai kyuuNkii is scale kaa gariibii jo aap dekh raheN haiN, jo koii baat nahii karnaa chahtaa hai 180000 farmers have committed suicide... matlab urgency meN mujhe lagtaa hai Pakistan kii baarii hai par India ko bhii andar se saaraa institutions khaayaa jaa rahaa hai

[Everyone blames the Taliban, but no one even talks about America. Because the corporate media is close to, and celebrates, America. But I don't think there is much difference [from the state of Pakistan] in the rest of the country...For example, if you go to Dantewara [in Chhatisgarh]. There are daily attacks. Daily people die. People are living in camps under police protection. Many are living in forests. But while this is happening in Dantewara, there might be a test match going on in Chennai - it's a large country. But very soon, a sort of an implosion is going to happen. Because the poverty that you are seeing, that no one wants to talk about... 1,80,000 farmers have committed suicide. I mean, in terms of urgency, it might be the turn of Pakistan, but even in India, all the institutions have been weakened.]

 Hindu talibanisation?

bilkul. hindu talibanisation to chal rahii hai. itne saare log mumbai ke attacks ke baare meN bolte haiN par uskaa wajah kyaa hai koii discussion nahii karnaa chaahte hain. yahaan tak jab sab bol raheN haiN kii lashkar ne kiyaa. agar lashkar ne kiyaa to lashkar aur kashmir meN koii connection nahii hai kyaa? par woh kashmir waalaa shabd bhii yahaaN aap nahii bol sakte haiN...

[Of course, hindu talibanisation is going on. So many people talk about Mumbai [26/11] attacks but no one wants to discuss their cause. Despite many people saying that Lashkar did it. If Lashkar did it, is there no connection between Lashkar and Kashmir or what? But you can't even say the word 'Kashmir'.]

On Muslim radicalisation in India

aap babri masjid, yaan gujarat, yaaN mumbai  93 kaa attacks, kashmir men jo ho rahaa hai ... aap dekho. waise kashmir kaa maamlaa thoRaa alag hai..aur baakii thoRaa alag hai, phir bhii jitne hazaaroN ko waise pakaR kar jail meN Daalaa terrorism charges pe...aur gujarat meN jo kuchh bhii huaa, ek bahut baRii humiliation thii naa kyuuNkii uske baad usii ko le ke election jiitii gayii do-tiin baar... marginalisation huii hai jo siraf terrorism waalii baat nahii hai. Muslims have also become only second to dalits in terms of opportunities and economic status

sabse baRaa problem india meN yeh hai -- pakistan meN abhii democracy ke liye laR raheN haiN... India meN democracy puraanii ho gayii naa... it's been used up or it's rotting, you know...

matlab yeh hai ke saare jo institutions haiN democracy kaa...courts, yaa media, executive...sabko khaalii kiyaa gayaa hai...instead of providing checks and balances, they are actually providing each other cover for this huge project of corporate nationalism which contains hyper capitalism and hyper nationalism

jaise maiN nahii baiTh ke bol saktii ke i am a nationalist kyuNkii mujhe lagtaa hai kii usme bahut khatraa hai... abhii hameN nationalism kaa zaruurat nahii hai, hameN gaddaar kaa zaruurat hai, bahut saare gaddaaroN kaa..

ham abhii is sub-continent meN ek stithitii meN haiN jahaaN pe kaafii poisonous ideologies bah rahe haiN, is delta meN, which is American capitalist imperialism...

talibani resistance..ek to yah bhii hai ke koii sab hab  taliban taliban bolte hain yeh   bhuul gaye ke they are fighting an occupation in their country, using  very medieval tools, y'know which is more interested in punishment than in faith... and there is pakistani nationalism y'know whether it is secular or islamic, there is hindu nationalism, whether it is hindu or secular ...and there is a whole problem of kashmir...unless you take a view of this whole thing and not just look at it through your own prism...matlab mai jo kah rahii huuN, Thiik hai, baakii sab ghalat hai...agar aisaa rk conversation shuruu hotaa hai to uskaa kisii chiiz kaa hal nahii hone waalaa hai...

Democracy not the answer?

log ye nahii socheN kii hamaare paas ye system hai to sab Thiik ho jaayegaa... jaise mujhe lagtaa hai kii india meN ek achhii chiiz ye hai ke yahaaN bahut saare aandolan haiN, state ke khilaaf, unkaa puuraa alag tarah kaa imagination hai...woh bakrii [makRii?] ke jaise nahii chalte

ye puuraa jo corporate project ko push karne ke liye, laakhoN, laakhoN logoN kaa ghar-zamiiN sab kabzaa ho rahaa hai..iske khilaaf bolnaa bahii anti-national ban gayaa...

jaise mumbai kaa jo attack huaa...kafii saaraa elite aa ke bolaa ke we should have a police-state. unko pataa hai kii yeh economic model hai jo india kaa, binaa police state ke nahii chalegaa..kyuuNkii abhii logoN ko maar ke, unko jail meN Daal ke hii uNkaa sab kuchh chhiin sakte haiN...to bahut chal rahaa hai ye, bahut zyaadaa...

But how is it possible? Doesn't Indian democracy allow people throw out the rulers every five years?
 
yahii to mai kah rahii thii naa ke democracy has been used up. but i am not suggesting that pakistan society which has not had a democracy should not fight for it ... but after a while, it becomes a system where the players know how to operate , hai naa?

ab mai aa rahii huuN wahaaN se... chhatisgarh se, jo sabse shaayad gariib jagah hai...jahaaN pe puuraa mining corporations matlab gher rakhaa hai aur jungle meN aadivaasii log rahte hai... ab aadivaasioN ko do taraf baaNTaan gayaa...salwa judam kar ke, ek government-backed people's militia, jiske bachchoN ke haath meN government ne baNduuK de rakhaa hai... aur baakii saare jo jungle meN jo rahte haiN, unko kahte haiN maoists, aur unke biich meN laRaaii, meaning the poorest are fighting the poorest... is waqt jab election ho rahaa hai, aap wahaan jaao dekho kii desh kii sabse baRii party, BJP aur congress, dono ek maNch meN haiN, aur sabse gariib unke khilaaf ... y'know ye democracy bhii aesaa ho gayaa naa, koii policy nahii hai...

Dictatorship or democracy?

waise mere paas koii solution nahii hai...I don't know what life after democracy will be par mujhe lagtaa hai ke organically something, something will happen, because the fabric is tearing.. aur jaise is desh meN itne saare log haiN jo ye factory effluent ke jaise naa pheNkaa jaa rahaa hai..ek tarah kaa extermination hai, y'know...49% of the children are malnutritioned... farmers are committing suicide...yeh bahut baRe baRe slums aa rahaa haiN...ye puuraa environment jo nashT ho rahaa hai naa...rivers aur forests...to is se mere khayaal meN ek abhii puraa ek system hai which atleast in the big cities and all that  is not totally threatened -- totally threatened... jaise ye mumbai attacks me tabhii log hil gaye kyuuNkii ye elite kaa jagah meN khuuN kharaabaa huaa...

Do more Indians hate her or love her?

maine koii poll nahii kiyaa, par mujhe lagtaa hai roughly ke kaafii saare jo elite haiN bahut unko taqliif hotii hai...

BBC Urdu

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