Indian Home Minister LK Advani sat down to talk to Q&A on Thursday.
I asked him, what's the minimum India wants to hear from the speech Pakistan'spresident Pervez Musharraf will make this weekend.
LK Advani, Home Minister, India: It's not a question of minimum. It'smore a question of reassuring us -- and when I say us, I mean not only thegovernment of India, but also the people of India -- that Pakistan has abandonedthe use of terrorism as an instrument of state policy.
Whatever be the cause, basically nations have to agree, particularly after the11th of September, the 13th of December, that no nation, no government, woulduse terrorism as an instrument of state policy.
Verjee : But Pakistan has taken some tangible moves towards reassuringIndia and the rest of the world of its commitment to fight terrorism. I mean,the leaders of Jaish-e-Mohammed and Lashkar-e-Tayyiba were arrested. Many othermilitants were also arrested, in the hundreds. And offices were closed down,accounts were frozen.
Why isn't this enough?
Advani : These moves have been taken, and to the extent that they have beentaken, we official said it is a move in the right direction.
But, frankly, when we look at the entire approach of Pakistan, even afterSeptember 11th, we do not feel convinced that these moves are substantial. Theyare essentially tactical moves.
Verjee : So what do you want Pakistan to do?
Advani : As put out yesterday in my press conference, firstly, I would likePakistan to abandon helping terrorists in either finance or in arms or inenabling them to go across the line of control into India. All these measureshave to be taken, apart from handing over the 20 terrorists who have committedacts of terrorism in India and who have been given asylum in Pakistan.
Verjee : Well, first of all, it has to be said that Pakistan denies financing andsupporting these militant groups that cross the line of control.
And as for the 20 militants that you're referring to, Pakistan says that thereis no extradition treaty between the two countries, so how can you request these20 militants in the first place?
Advani : So far as denial is concerned, I remember earlier Pakistani leadersdenying having anything to do with what all happened in India. But lately, afterGen. Musharraf came into office, after that his public stand has been, when hecame to Agra (ph), or only recently when he visited Katmandu for the SAARCmeeting, his stand has been that what is happening in Jammu and Kashmir is notat all terrorism, it is a freedom struggle of the people of Jammu and Kashmir.
And so he has not denied assisting them. He's said that yes, it's my duty to seethat that struggle for independence...
Verjee : Well, Pakistan's position has always been that of morally supportingthem. And that's it, they say.
Advani : Not morally supporting them. I can say that not a single person can comeacross the line of control, but in the last years and in fact even in the lastthree or four months, every months we have a couple of hundred crossing across,because this is not possible without the Pakistan government facilitating it.
And therefore, we have said that this must stop.
Verjee : You're asking Pakistan for a lot. Isn't it about time the Indiangovernment started looking inwards and asking itself what it can do, and whetherit was prepared to address the grievances, for instances, of the Kashmiripeople, rather than blaming everything that happens in Kashmir on Pakistan?
Advani : People should know that there was a time when it was people of Jammu andKashmir who used to go over to Pakistan, get training, get arms, get finance,and come back here to indulge in all kinds of activities. That's no longer so.
Nowadays, it is people from Pakistan, people from Afghanistan, people from someother Islamic countries, drawn in by the appeal of jihad, who come asmercenaries into Jammu and Kashmir.
Verjee : No, hold on. My question, though, is, what is India prepared to do toaddress the grievances of the Kashmiri people and bring them back into the fold,rather than saying it's all Pakistan's fault?
Advani : So far as the Kashmiri people are concerned, in fact so far as thepeople of India are concerned, it is the duty of every government to see thattheir legitimate grievances are removed. And that continues as an act ofgovernment. And I can say that the present government has been consciously doingits duty in that regard.
Even in respect of Kashmir, we have appointed a senior official of the cabinetrank, Shcasy Pundt (ph), to talk to various groups in Jammu and Kashmir and toaddress the grievances that they have.
Verjee : Consciously doing its duty, there are a lot of critics that would differwith that. They talk about human rights abuses in Kashmir, corruption inelections. The Kashmiri people being caught between the cross-fire between theinsurgence and the Indian security forces. I mean, their lives, the averageKashmiri person, is no better because India has been unimaginative in the way ithas dealt with the Kashmiri people, your critics would say.
Advani : Which country in the world, particularly in the developing world,doesn't have problems of this kind? And we address them as honestly andsincerely as we can.
But that cannot be a justification for the killing of innocent people, ashappens when terrorists come across the line and start bombing people, startderailing trains, and do all kinds of things.
And things reach a point which I describe as crossing the (UNINTELLIGIBLE),crossing the threshold where even Indian parliament is attacked by these people.And it is this 13th of December incident that has made India think in terms of adifferent response than it has until now.
Verjee : And it's that 13th of December incident that has also ratcheted up therhetoric in India and the concern that you could become a victim of your ownrhetoric.
For instance, you know, saying one more time, if this happens, we're going tohave to do something about it, and if something does happen, the onus is on you,or there is immense pressure on the Indian government, to do something about it,which is an enormously dangerous position to put yourself in.
Advani : I'm sorry if anyone describes this as rhetoric, and the Prime MinisterVajpayee has not at all used rhetoric. He is a person who has been patientlyseeing all that has been happening, and he is a person who had to say after the13th of December that now our patience has been exhausted.
Verjee : OK, but what happens if there is another attack? What happens if anoutraged Kashmir peasant picks up a Kalashnikov and shoots an Indian politician?Are you going to blame it on Pakistan or -- I mean, that's Pakistan's concern,that anything that's going to happen now, India is going to jump on it and pointthe finger immediately at Pakistan.
Can you reassure the Pakistani government that that's not the case?
Advani : Zain, these are hypothetical questions. Lately, I haven't seen Indianpeople belonging to Jammu and Kashmir, or to any part of India, indulging inthis kind of activity. It is people who have been either sent from across theborder of activated by different motives who have been doing it.
It is significant that all of the five terrorists who attacked Parliament House,all were Pakistanis.
Verjee : Is the real reason that India is, as has been described in manyeditorials, sabre-rattling and building up troops on the Pakistani border reallyto gain favor in advance of a very important election that will be coming up,the Uttar Pradesh state elections, and you need those votes, and this could beone way of getting them.
Advani : I'm a person who is a member of the government, and I would describe anygovernment which thinks in terms of elections while deciding momentous issues ofthis kind as an irresponsible government.
And I can tell you that thinking of how to deal with terrorism, as for exampleto have a law like (UNINTELLIGIBLE); we thought of it 1 1/2 years back, eventhat is attributed to the Utti (ph) elections. It is unfortunately.
And therefore, all I can say is elections do not figure in every single decisionthat we have been taking in respect of terrorism.
Verjee : You've poignantly made your arguments and criticisms of Pakistan, but Ireally want to know from you, Mr. Advani , rather than throwing the ball inPakistan's court, what is the Indian government going to do itself?
Advani : Whatever we need to do to address the legitimate grievances of Jammu andKashmir, we are doing and we are determined to pursue that path.
Verjee : But, do what? Be specific. This is just broad stuff. Give me specifics.
Advani : Including holding free and fair elections in Jammu and Kashmir.
Verjee : Are you willing to pull out 6,000 or 7,000 [the figures sureseem interesting - ed] security forces in Kashmirthat tighten the noose, so to speak, around Pakistan? Why don't you pull themout? That could be one way of diffusing things.
Advani : Pull out the security forces? In this situation?
Verjee : Pull out some of them.
Advani : In a situation where the people in Gurdaspur (ph), the people in Rajouri,the people in Punj are repeating again and again that we send our paramilitaryforces for their protection.
Verjee : You're building up troops, building the security forces, puttingpressure on Pakistan that, if you push Musharraf too hard, there's a concernthat he could be toppled and then India will have another problem to deal with.
Advani : I do not think that these apprehensions are correct, basically becausewhen Gen. Musharraf decided to join hands with the United States in its fightagainst international terrorism, the first and foremost pressure that came uponhim was to abandon the Taliban. And which I feel was the most difficult taskentrusted to him. And he did it, and has nevertheless survived thereafter.
I do not see why, in his fight against terrorism, he should see terrorism onlyon the West, not on the East. Terrorism is terrorism, and one terrorism is notgood terrorism, because it is in Jammu and Kashmir, and another terrorism is badbecause it is in Taliban.
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(Courtesy: CNN)
