Sharing Wavelengths With Russia

Mr. Foreign Secretary, the Prime Minister this morning justified President Putin’s concerns on Pakistan’s nuclear programme. Would you like to react on that? 

It is clear that Pakistan’s nuclear programme, and the news that we are all aware of, that has been widely circulated in the international press, about cooperation between Pakistan and North Korea, is a matter of serious concern to us and to the international community. 

It is noteworthy that President Putin is now openly and pointedly referring to the possibility of Pakistan’s WMD assets getting into the hands of the wrong people. This is the point that we have been making in the past on several occasions that if the international community is concerned about fundamentalism, terrorism and WMD, then Pakistan in fact is the country that should be very closely looked at because it has all the three ingredients that are at the core of the concerns of the international community. 

As you know, in the past, our leadership has spoken about nuclearisation of terrorism. So, what President Putin has said is a reiteration of what we have been saying on several occasions in the past. 

Can you throw some light on the defence agreements that are going to be signed? There are reports that the deal on Admiral Gorshkov is through.

As you know, in the Inter-Governmental Commission on Military and Technical Cooperation a number of agreements were reached. These relate to T-90 tanks, transfer of technology and licenced production of 140 Su 30 Mk-I fighter aircraft, and the supply of the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov. On the first two, progress has been made. On the third, negotiations are taking place. Beyond that it is very difficult for me to say anything to you because (a) this is a subject which is dealt with by the Defence Ministry, and (b) these are ongoing discussions and it is very difficult at any given point in time to tell you exactly where these matters stand. 

Are no announcements in the defence field expected to be made during the visit? 

Why do you want me to prejudge what may or may not happen? If I say no, that will have a meaning. If I say yes, that will have a meaning. So, frankly it is an ongoing cooperation. 

It has been going on for a long time. 

Well, these matters do take time not only with Russia but with other countries because these are very high value negotiations. The sums involved are enormous. Therefore, they have to be extremely carefully negotiated. I think it is not a secret that between India and Russia, defence cooperation is intensive. At a given point there is a lot that is on the plate. So, at this moment, to say what may or may not have come to a head and what may or may not be announced, may not be very desirable. At the appropriate moment you will know. 

Is India willing to consider strategic configuration of Russia-China-India, an idea which was rejected in 1998 and which has been raised once again by Mr. Putin in his recent visit? 

I do not think this is quite the way in which even Russia is seeing it today. There was this proposal to have a trilateral meeting among the three countries. It was held among the three Foreign Ministers at New York in September. There is a track-II effort that is going on separately. At this meeting it was agreed that the three PRs would remain in touch with each other and the focus essentially would be on issues that are discussed and are of concern to the international community and discussion on those subjects in the United Nations. This is where it stands. So, there is no proposal for any strategic configuration that you are speaking of. 

Is it correct that the Russians are demanding a bit too much for Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, that the price being asked for is higher than 800 million dollars for retro-fitting it whereas the Indian expectation is near half of that?

Frankly, I cannot throw much light upon these matters. These are details of discussions and negotiations. Suffice it to say that there was an agreement, as I mentioned to you, on this. Now it is a question of negotiations. I really cannot throw much light on the kind of details that you have mentioned. 

Are any specific steps being initiated in the field of energy security? 

This is a subject which is very important to us. When I had gone to Moscow I raised it with the Russian side and underlined the priority that we give to this, especially given the fact that Russia has become a very major player in the whole area of energy to the point that Russia now has a capacity to shape energy politics outside APEC and Russian companies are very active. There is this East-West pipeline issue between Russia and China. 

With regard to supply of gas in pipelines to Western Europe, Russia is a major player in all the negotiations and discussions that take place with regard to new pipelines under the Caspian, above the Caspian, wherever they are, and Russians are active. GAZPROM now has come in and showing interest even in the Iran-India pipeline. We are energy short. We have to plan ahead. We have invested 1.7 billion dollars in Sakhalin. We are willing to look at investments elsewhere in Russia and in Central Asia. So, there is a lot on the plate. 

It will make a lot of sense for India and Russia to have a forum in which we can discuss energy security. For example, we have a desire to invest in Kurmangazi, Kazakstan and Caspian Sea and some of the places I mentioned. So, there certainly will be a conversation on this. 

In what way will the New Delhi Declaration be different from the previous declarations? 

I am told that when you translate New Delhi in Russian, it sounds odd. Therefore, it is easier to say Delhi Declaration. 

I think we have two previous Delhi declarations – one in 1986 when Mr. Gorbachev came and again in 1988. 

It is the second one I am told. Well, it is quite clear that when the talks are held here it has to be Delhi Declaration, it cannot be a Kolkata Declaration or a Chennai Declaration. That is self-evident. There is additionality. These declarations try to incorporate in the text all the understandings and all the convergences that have occurred in the previous year or in the previous two years or whatever it is. So, these are updated documents which show greater convergence of what happened. In that sense, yes there will beadditionality. 

You have said in your opening remarks that Shanghai-5 and NATO issues will also be discussed. What is our perspective on the two issues?

I did not say NATO. But you are right. NATO could well be discussed because it is a subject matter of interest. In the case of Shanghai Cooperation, they have agreed on the rules governing the meetings, the issues of new membership, guest members, observers and all that. We have had a very detailed look at all that. We have expressed our interest in becoming a member of the SCO. When I was in Russia I had mentioned that. Subsequently, we have made it a point to indicate our interest. What we are told is that our interest is viewed positively. Earlier we were told that once the rules and regulations are finalized, that would be the moment when our bid for membership will be looked at. Now the time is coming when they will have to respond to our declared interest. 

You have mentioned MoU on terrorism. Can you give us the broad outline of what this will contain? To revert to what my colleague asked on the strategic partnership, what are the new elements in the strategic situation which will be reflected in this Delhi Declaration?

I would suggest that you wait for the text to appear when you can all examine it and see what the new elements are. Rather than saying that there are new elements, it is a reinforcement of convergence that already exists, whether it is in the area of terrorism or developments in our neighbourhood including Afghanistan, the overall international situation keeping in mind the recent developments, the role of the United Nations, etc. 

Insofar as the MoU on combating terrorism is concerned, as you know, we do not so far have a Joint Working Group on Terrorism with Russia, although we have been discussing this subject intensively with them. When we had our Joint Working Group on Afghanistan, we did discuss extensively, as I myself did when I went there, this particular subject of terrorism. So, this MoU is a comprehensive document which envisages cooperation between the two Governments involving security agencies through information exchange, exchange of equipment and training. 

Formation of this Group will, once this sort of MoU is signed and we have a platform and a formal agreement on this, help in bringing our interaction with the Russian Federation on par with our interaction in this area with other major countries and will also involve all agencies and Ministries concerned with this issue. So, in that sense this is a move forward and it is a welcome move. 

What is the latest information on trade relations between India and Russia? 

The trade relations, unfortunately, are not as intensive as they should be. The total volume of trade at 1.5 billion dollars is really not at all commensurate with what should be really the level of exchanges between two countries which have such a close political relationship.  

When we had the meeting on the IRIGC earlier last month, the focus was on how we should be able to trigger our trade and economic relations in general including the whole issue of the Rupee account that is being maintained and the whole investment. The reason why we are going to sign this economic declaration this time, this is the first time we are going to sign an economic declaration between the two countries at the level of the two Heads of Government and State,- is really to impart a new dynamism to this aspect by getting the two sides at the highest level to agree to certain principles, or a framework, and the contents of the framework and the principles that should govern the efforts of both sides to enhance economic trade. 

You will see from the declaration that it is very wide-ranging and very comprehensive. Essentially the idea is that at the level of the Government and the State there should be a conscious, focused effort to push for increased levels of trade and economic cooperation. Russia is also developing a pretty vibrant private sector. There is a lot of money floating around in Russia. Russia too needs to look at India, and the opportunities that now exist in India, in a new light. 

We also need to be more focused on what the prospects are in Russia and move away from the past when the whole trade was conducted on the basis of State-to-State relationship, which was effectively some kind of a barter arrangement at that time. So, in short, there is a new awareness and a new determination to increase our economic and trade ties. 

What are the elements of Indo-Russian cooperation on fighting terrorism right now? You said that you are raising the issue of Pakistani sponsorship of terrorism with President Putin. 

I did not say that. I said that in any case this subject will be raised. 

Are you going to express India’s concerns about Bangladesh’s terrorist activities against India? 

Insofar as Pakistani sponsorship of cross border terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir is concerned, I think from the statements that Russians have made in the past and the statements that President Putin himself has made in the recent days, it is quite clear that on this issue we are entirely on the same wave length. In fact, in some respects the Russian President seems to have articulated those concerns even more sharply. 

Coming from Russia, a permanent member of the Security Council, and given Russia’s role and importance in terms of nonproliferation issues since it is a nuclear power and a signatory to the NPT and one of the pillars of the existing nonproliferation regime, the kind of concerns it is expressing are important. So, on this I think we have a very good meeting of minds and the declaration that will be issued will indicate the shared thinking that we have. 

After all, what happened in Moscow and otherwise the problem that Russia faces with regard to fundamentalist terrorism, have made them increasingly and more acutely aware of similar problems that we face. 

Is Bangladesh going to be raised during talks with Mr. Putin? Would that also figure? 

Personally, I do not see why there should be any specific reason to focus on countries other than our friends to the West, who are the main problem. 

India and Russia have a common interest in protecting the new regime in Afghanistan from fundamentalism. Now there are reports increasingly of Pakistani aggression in the Southern region of Afghanistan. The Russians had commented upon this earlier and there was some talk about a Joint Working Group, a trilateral discussion, or a forum among India, Iran and Russia. Has there been any progress on this?

Firstly, we certainly share Russia’s concerns. I think these concerns are shared by large sections of the international community also about the instability in south and southeastern parts of Afghanistan. Kabul and the areas west and northwest are relatively more stable today because they are more out of the reach of elements in Pakistan which have been backing the Taliban and the Al Qaeda. 

Now with the success of the extremist parties in Pakistan, in particular in the two bordering provinces of Afghanistan, the concerns of all those who want stability and peace in Pakistan have been exacerbated. I think it is reasonable to say that Pakistan continues with its policy of seeking to increase its interference in Afghanistan and prevent a rapid stabilization of this area. The success of these parties which I referred to, can only further fuel such interference as these parties also have strong links with elements in the Pakistani armed forces. 

So, this is a challenge that the international community has to face and must be conscious of. This must not be in any way under-played or obfuscated for short-term political reasons by any country. Insofar as any trilateral cooperation between India, Russia and Iran is concerned, this kind of a cooperation did exist during the phase when the struggle against Taliban was going on. 

Now we have a Government in Kabul. Mr. Hamid Karzai is in power. We are fully supportive of the Government in Kabul. We want the Government to be able to spread its influence and its control over the rest of Afghanistan. We are in favour of all ethnic groups and all regional personalities working in close concert and cooperation with the Central Government. 

So, in the new context, the old kind of cooperation that you referred to would not be entirely in accordance with the needs of the situation. That does not mean that we cannot discuss with Russia bilaterally, or with Iran bilaterally, and share concerns regarding Afghanistan, which we are doing. 

You have said in your opening remarks that you would be reviewing bilateral cooperation in the field of atomic energy between India and Russia. What will you be looking at in this field in the light of recent easing of restrictions by the US?

We are looking at greater involvement of Russia in this sector. As you know, Russia is already engaged in setting up two nuclear power plants in the country. We have a fairly ambitious programme in this area of setting up by the year 2020 a total capacity of 20,000 MW. So, there is considerable scope. Since Russia has a head start over other potential collaborators, as they are already engaged in setting up these two nuclear power plants, there is, therefore, a clear potential of working together in the future. This is what we should discuss and this is what we will discuss. 

We know what the obstacles are and what the difficulties are. The whole challenge is to be able to overcome these difficulties and these obstacles in the larger interest of India and Russia, or for that matter India and other countries, and to enable India to cater for its future energy needs from a variety of sources keeping in mind India’s goals in this sector and, of course, very importantly keeping in mind the interests of the international community in general because of the environmental question.

Come what may, a country like India with its growing energy needs will be compelled, will be obliged to develop its power-producing capacity in whatever sector. If we have to use fossil fuels to achieve our goals, the environmental damage would be much greater. Nuclear power, at least from that point of view, is relatively pollution free. So, that should be an additional agreement for the international community which is very conscious of the environmental question to support the legitimate requirements of India in this sector of energy. 

There have been reports that India might approach Russia for acquiring a nuclear submarine. 

You said these were reports, so, let them remain reports. I really do not know. Therefore, it is difficult for me to say anything on this. 

Has the US officially asked for India’s assistance in resolution of its conflict with Iraq? 

I think that is a leading question. You know very well that the UN Resolution 1441 has been passed unanimously and the UN Inspectors have gone there. What is coming out is that the Government of Saddam Hussein is cooperating. So, everybody is hoping and expecting that there will be no military conflict and that the solution will be found within the framework of the Resolution. So, at this stage to jump ahead and start speculating as to what may or may not happen – when at this moment there are no signs that it may not happen – would I think be unnecessary.