'Nobody Said Declare Hindustan A Hindu State'

Mr Speaker, if Priya Ranjan Dasmunsiji has no objection to what I told him separately, I would like tostate publicly that the entire country was worried about the elections just held in Jammu and Kashmir.

We in the Government too were worried because we wanted the elections to be held in a peaceful atmosphere.It’s correct one of our concerns in Jammu and Kashmir stemmed from the fact that at times questions wereasked about the representative character of the elections held in the past years, decades. This is why it wasso important that elections be held there in a peaceful atmosphere, in a free and fair manner. When thishappened, everyone was satisfied. We were satisfied, the country was satisfied, the world was impressed and,more importantly, the people of Jammu and Kashmir were delighted that the apprehensions of some people hadturned out to be baseless. The elections were held.

When this session was about to start this morning, it occurred to me that this was also the day for animportant election notification. The Gujarat elections will be notified today, may have already been notified.In fact, it has been notified. While this session is on, votes will be cast there on December 12 and theresults will be declared on December 15. By the time this session ends on December 20, a new government willprobably be in place there.

I admit I had it in mind that today’s discussion should not heighten the tension there. The proposal fromthe Leader of Opposition, or made on her behalf, was on drought. I thought the drought discussion would beaccepted because it’s a fact that the issue discussed today was done earlier as well. We last discussed itin July.

If you look at the situation after July, there has been no increase in communalism or communal violence.The overall situation there has been peaceful though there have been a few incidents. It’s not as if noincident has taken place there but there has been no incident like what happened on February 27 and 28 and thethree months that followed. We have discussed those incidents at length in this House. The incidents of thosethree months have been discussed many times.

Many things said today, whether from that side or this side, were a repetition. I will not say anything tothem, nor accuse them because I feel it will not help the situation in Gujarat.

The Prime Minister too has said it will be better if we discuss how we can provide good governance. Otherdiscussions can go on. We in a way were told to talk about a good ruler. We can never forget this. I have seenevery Lok Sabha election 1952 onward.

Every time a political issue would be highlighted on which elections would be fought. Win or lose, that’sa different matter. The 1999 election was the first minus any negativism. It was there in some proportion in1998. But in the two elections in 1998-99, Vajpayeeji, the BJP and allies said we would turn Swaraj into Su-raj.This was our stand. Swaraj was also defined, its meaning explained. I feel that this time, and the PrimeMinister too has said that, there should be no discussion on Godhra. I think he was right.

While coming here this morning, I read the statement of the one man who is discussed most in the context ofGujarat: Narendra Modi. I have a copy of today’s Economic Times and what he has said there. Anhonourable member here mentioned the situation there is such that he does not even have money to pay salaries.What he said was, ‘‘We have not taken a single penny of debt to pay salaries to our employees. We had totake debt to meet the challenges arising out of natural calamities, be it cyclones, floods orearthquake.’’ I am saying this because an honourable member had referred to it. He was asked about hisvision. ‘‘The Gujarat of future would have three basic traits: it would be educated, irrigated andcompletely electrified.

We want to have human resources for the Twenty First Century. I want Gujarat to have more institutions,like National Institute of Design and Indian Institute of Management.’’ Both have a big reputation inIndia. They are considered prestigious institutions.

‘‘We would strive to irrigate all our fields in the state so that not a single farm is without water.We are going to re-charge all the underground water wells in the next 45 months. All this would not onlyconserve water but would help us conserve a large amount of electricity. It would also provide necessary boostto agro-industry.’’

I have referred to this because in the last two discussions, I got the opportunity to express my approval.I said I agree with your sentiment that if in any state innocent people are killed, whether in Godhra, Narodaor Baroda, it’s a matter of shame. I said this while in London and many people wrote about it. The truth isthat my speech dated 3rd...

It is a blot on us, particularly on my government because when we came to power, there was apprehensionthat minorities would not be safe under our rule. Our track record for 4-5 years, before the Godhra incident, was such that we could speak on its basis. Todayour Shahnawazji dug up old records and listed the numbers who perished in riots and the parties in power. Ifeel that in the given situation, it would have been better if we had not had today’s discussion. We wouldhave done greater justice to Gujarat.

I can understand the reaction of our members from Gujarat. Listen to the two speeches of Harin Pathak andthe one he made today. See the difference. He felt it was not just the BJP that was being criticisedrepeatedly. An impression was being created the world over that Muslims were not safe as long as there wereHindus in Gujarat. This impression is a great injustice to Gujarat and the country...(Interruption).

PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI (Raiganj): It is a loaded statement.

L.K. ADVANI: It is not a loaded statement. You can be clever saying Vajpayeeji said this, Advaniji said this. This clevergame has been played by our opponents in the last five years. It has no impact. We have walked together andwill continue to walk together. I want to tell you that if Hindustan is secular today, it is not because ofany party. That Hindustan became secular in 1947 is also unusual history. India was partitioned on the basisof Hindu-majority areas and Muslim-majority areas when Pakistan said the Muslims were a separate nation andwanted a separate state.

It was then that Pakistan was formed. Shahnawazji has rightly said that those who had to go there havegone. But the ones who stayed here lived as sons of Mother India and are the sons of Mother India. You mustaccept this. Read the history of the Constituent Assembly. Nobody said declare Hindustan a Hindu state. IfHindustan was accepted as a secular state...(Interruption).

SATYAVRAT CHATURVEDI (Khajuraho): Hindu Parishad, RSS and Narendra Modi are saying it everyday...(Interruption)

L.K. ADVANI: I am talking of 1947. I will comment on that as well. I will come to that. From 1947 to 1950, theConstitution of India was made. Pakistan declared itself an Islamic state. India accepted a Constitution whichdoes not have the secular word in it but the secular concept is there — respect for all religions, equalrights, status for Hindus, Muslims, Christians and Parsis.

This concept which can be called secular was accepted, unanimously at that, because Hindustan’s ethos,Hindustan’s culture never accepted the concept of a religious state. This is why I tell you that many peoplesometimes use such a word for Hinduism or Hindutva as if it is a communal word or an incorrect word. I want totell him, my friend who spoke last, that our concept of Hindutva, our concept of Hinduism is the concept ofSwami Vivekanandaji, the concept of Ramkrishna Parmahans, the concept of Swami Dayanandji.

These are our saints of the past. If I am to comment on the present, I will say our concept is the onewhich the Supreme Court wrote. Justice Verma in his judgement wrote: ‘‘The words Hinduism or Hindutva arenot confined only to the strict Hindu religious practices unrelated to the culture and ethos of the people ofIndia depicting the way of life of the Indian people. These terms are indicative more of a way of life of theIndian people, and are not confined merely to describe persons practising the Hindu religion as a faith.’’

We in the Government accept that the meaning of Hindutva is the one which the Supreme Court accepts andwhat Swami Vivekanandaji and others recognised. But the way it is said here, just go through all the speechestoday. One honourable member just said Hindu was never used in Sanskrit.

If I tell you what Hindu means, you will be ashamed how wrong you are about its meaning. These things whichare said, it emanated from there, that Rashtrapalji said it or someone else said it. It is because of suchlanguage you must again understand that Hindustan or Hindustan’s people will never condone communalviolence, whether it is done by Hindus or Muslims.

Mass communal violence will never be condoned. But the people of Hindustan will also not acceptpseudo-secularism. If this had not been there...(Interruption)

You referred to my rath yatra, let me tell you that in the entire programme of this government, in theagreed programme, the construction of the Ram temple figures nowhere. That is why I have never spoken about itin Parliament. Since you have mentioned it, I will only say that recently I went to the Liberhan Commissionand spoke at great length on what I felt about the rath yatra and the Ayodhya movement. To put it briefly, theAyodhya movement was a commendable movement (shresth andolan). What happened in Ayodhya on December 6,1992, was by itself wrong. I said it even then that this is the saddest day of my life.

I would only like to say our objective would be to have impartial elections in Gujarat.

Our party and allies will have to assure people that not only will we provide good governance but alsocreate such conditions where everyone, be it the majority or minority, can lead secure lives. This we have toassure people. I only have to say this. It would have been better had we not discussed this today and taken upa more relevant topic.

Technically, my friend Nawal Kishore Rai is right when he says there is nothing recent about this. Becauseit is written: An Adjournment Motion has to be on a recent event. In case of Adjournment Motion, it cannot bemoved on the continuing event of communalism. But it is also true...(Interruption).

RUPCHAND PAL (Hooghly): It is a very recent matter. What was said about the Commission...(Interruption)

L.K. ADVANI: Priya Ranjan Dasmunsi was right when he said the Government had accepted. Yes, we accepted. We acceptedwithout saying those in favour must rise. We think that a message has to go across the country that we allwant to get together and discuss issues. Nobody wants to adjourn the House. This was the prime consideration.It was because of this that we accepted. I have nothing else to say.