'Majority Of Afghans Do Not Want Return Of Taliban'

Transcript of the BBC Hindi special programme Aapki Baat BBC Ke Saath withdistinguished journalist Rahimullah Yusufzai and former Indian ambassador toAfghanistan I.P. Khosla on the recent offer of talks to the Taliban by theUSA-backed Karzai regime in Afghanistan. Peshawar based Rahimullah Yusufzai is one of the few journalists to have metboth al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and the Taliban leader Mullah Omer.

Nagendar Sharma: What has forced America backed Karzaiadministration to extend an olive branch to Taliban byoffering them to join the mainstream, only three and ahalf years after the American-led forces had drivenout of Afghanistan?

I P Khosla : Well, this is a complex issue and now thethinking within Karzai administration is that ifviolence could be brought down further, it would be inthe interests of all concerned. This has also beennecessitated because of the unfulfilled promises by the international community, which were made when Talibanwere driven out of Afganistan.

Rahimullah Yusufzai: Well, the Taliban are saying thattheir continuing attacks on traitors of Aghanistan (by which they mean the Allied forces), have forced the Karzaiadministration to invite them for talks. Anyway, thisis their view. Taliban still have strongholds inPashtun areas, particularly in South and East of thecountry. The thinking within the Karzai administration is thatif certain Taliban sections could be persuaded to laydown arms and join the mainstream, it would definitelystrengthen Karzai’s hands.

BBC listener from Peshawar: What has forced Americato do this U-turn on Taliban. If after around fouryears, they were to offer peace to Taliban, then whywere they attacked ?

I P Khosla : I would not call it a U-turn. Do notforget that after all Taliban belong to Afghanistan,their support may have grown in the past for wrongreasons, but it waned off relatively quickly also.Now, after about three and a half years ofpost-Taliban rule, the international community hasrealised that whatever has to be done, should be donefrom within Afghanistan and it is the locals who haveto be in the forefront. It could be a part of thisthinking that the offer for talks has been made to the Taliban.

Rahimullah Yusufzai: It is not essentially a U-turn,but yes a change in thinking, and a part of carefullydevised strategy by the Americans in closeconsultation with Karzai administration. Irrespective of the strength of anyorganisation,warfare cannot carry on indefinitely,therefore the thinking is that Taliban may be tiringout now and some sections within this force could bewilling to walk out.

BBC listener from Delhi: Mr Khosla, you have servedin Kabul, please tell us if the the presentdevelopments could affect India in anyway and how do yourate the Indo-Afghan relations as of today ?

I P Khosla : Well, any developments in a neighbouringcountry do have an impact. However, this present offerin my does not seem to have a direct bearing on India. TheIndo-Afghan relations today are much better than theyhave been in the past -- I am referring to Taliban days. Hamid karzai himself has visited Indiaat leastthree times after taking over the reins in Kabul. Atinternational fora, he has described India as agreat friend, on the ground, also, Indian help toAfghanistan is clearly evident, whether inbuilding infrastructure, roads or hospitals.Indo-Afghan relations have seen many turns, but are onthe right track of mutual benefit to both countriesnow.

BBC listener from Oman: Mr Khosla, India remaineda silent spectator when America and Britain took theunjustified decision to attack Afghanistan, then laterIraq and now Iran. Is India’s role diminishing atinternational level?

I P Khosla : I think it is what you call a change indiplomatic terms. In earlier days, India used to speakout on all issues, irrespective of the fact whetherthose issues concerned us or not. You could call itthe declaratory policy. Now India speaks less andbelieves in quiet diplomacy, meaning putting its viewfirmly across without beating about the bush, so it isnot a sign of diminishing, but becoming wiser withexperience and in keeping with the changing times.

BBC listener from Bihar: Rahimullah sahib, in yourview are Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden and Talibanleader Mullah Omar alive, and if they are alive, arethey still active?

Rahimullah Yusufzai: Both Osama and Mullah Omer arealive. There is no evidence to suggest that Osama binladen is dead, and there is no doubt about thepresence of Mullah Omer as he regularly sends audiocassettes and letters. Both of them are in the region only -- which other country in the world would acceptthem?

Remember Mullah Omar has the advantage of being anAfghan, he knows Pashto and the world knows littleabout his appearance as very few of his photographshave ever circulated. He is living in his country,within his own tribe and my knowledge is he does nothave a major problem. There are active Talibanelements who would defend him at any cost. It is easyfor him to be in the mountainous terrain ofAfghanistan, and I think he does not have a problem incrossing over to Pakistan also.

However Osama’s case is quite difficult. He does notknow either Pashto or Urdu. He merely speaks Arabic.Americans have kept a big award on his head. Thereforehis movements are restricted and difficult, as comparedto Mullah Omer, as he does not belong to the region either. However, he does prove his presence by sendingout regular video or audio cassettes, either warningAmerica of fresh attacks or praising Muslim militants.The last one was sent out in October, and we areexpecting a fresh video or audio cassette soon now.

Nagendar Sharma: But why should Afghan people provideprotection to Osama and endanger their own lives foran outsider?

Rahimullah Yusufzai: It is a very valid point, which has been hotly debated in Afghanistan for years now.There is a lot of anti-America sentiment in thisregion, especially in tribal areas of Afghanistan andPakistan, therefore by default Osama has been able tochannelise a lot of support in this region. Thoseproviding shelter to Osama are fully aware of therisks involved, as whenever American or Pakistanisecurity forces have got any information about AlQaeda fighters, they have been swift in bombing thearea, but despite that Osama is being protected. Itwould not have been possible for Osama to remainelusive for such a long period, without solid support,as Americans dug out Saddam Hussain in eight months!Also, do not forget that when Taliban were defeated andforced out of Kabul in October 2001, the entirecountry did not celebrate. There was considerableanger in Pashtun strongholds.

BBC listener from Delhi: Mr Yusufzai, how do you ratethree and a half years of Karzai regime?

Rahimullah Yusufzai: Well, it is a complex situation,only half of the international aid which was promisedhas in fact been delivered so far. Emergency relief hasbeen provided to Afghan people. But the realreconstruction which was required in roads, irrigationand schools etc., has been slow.

Right now the problem being faced by Hamid Karzairegime is the lack of trust. People haven't got whatwas promised to them. The little support that hasgrown for Taliban is because Karzai government hasfailed miserably on certain fronts.

Maintaining peace and providing employment have beenthe biggest failures of Karzai government. Afghanpeople had a lot of hope after the defeat of Taliban,that peace would return, warlords terror would end,but the presence of American soldiers and their styleof working has compounded the resentment against them.The way Americans conduct searches in houses, doaerial bombardments -- and killing of innocents in thepast three years and a half -- has kept the Talibanspirit alive in some parts of the country, but let mealso make it clear that majority of Afghans do notwant return of Taliban type forces again at any cost.