" Pakistan’s preference for the separatists are no doubt an irritant, but New Delhi’s usual practice had been to register an objection and move on, not letting the issue derail the dialogue process."
What was the objection previous government used to registger and why ? Since those objections didn't had any desired effect and the meeting of Pakistan officials with sepratists contidued, this government has gone a step further than just raising an irrelevant objection. Now ball is in the court of Pakistan. Let's wait and watch, whether they wnat to talk with illegitmate not elected speratists or legitimate elected government
"The battle against ‘love jihad’ sounds nutty, but it is now endorsed by India’s ruling party, whose members make pronouncements once relegated to the fringes of the Hindu far right."
This website clearly shows how Muslim men love their Hindus sisters.
>>>> "Please don't call yourself a Hindu."
>> "Why ? Is he going to be converted ?"
If he can be converted to Hinduism it would be good! But he will remain a Hindutvawadi, just like you!
I ask therefore I’m Hindu: Hinduism stands for freedom of thought, don’t stifle that spirit
By Sagarika Ghose
"Even as the Chinese pour resources into bringing their education to global standards, the Right wants to pull Indian students back into an illusory ‘Vedic’ Age.
"Banning Doniger and Ramanujan, prohibiting English and Urdu phrases in textbooks, is not Indianising education, it is closing the Indian mind."
Muslims love for Hindus.
"Please don't call yourself a Hindu."
Why ? Is he going to be converted ?
[[Many believe it to be an idea of a Muslim nation within India, not a separate nation.]]
And pray tell us, how was that going to be possible?
Democracy without dissent serves no cause
Over-reaction to an irritant
Editorial, The Hindu
The government has done itself no favours, as the decision is bound to add to the popularity of the separatist leaders in the Valley.
Diplomacy is not a limited overs cricket match. But by calling off the Foreign Secretary-level talks with Pakistan scheduled for August 25, the Narendra Modi government has behaved precisely as if it was that. For more than a decade now leaders of the secessionist Hurriyat have regularly met Pakistani diplomats stationed in India, as well as visiting leaders starting with General Pervez Musharraf when he came for the Agra summit in 2001. Such meetings that demonstrate Pakistan’s preference for the separatists are no doubt an irritant, but New Delhi’s usual practice had been to register an objection and move on, not letting the issue derail the dialogue process. Implicit in this approach was the realisation that engagement was the key to normalising relations with Islamabad. Also, there has been grudging acceptance on the Indian side that an India-Pakistan agreement on Kashmir needs the Hurriyat on board. For, while there is an elected government, the separatist leaders do carry a great deal of influence in the Valley on the larger political questions about the State. The Centre too has been in both official and secret talks with the Hurriyat leadership. In the light of this, the proper course would have been to express displeasure at the Pakistan High Commissioner’s invitation to the Hurriyat for consultations before the talks between the Foreign Secretaries. But to have cancelled the talks shows a shockingly inadequate grasp of history, and is short-sighted. India has called off engagement with Pakistan many times in the recent past for far more serious reasons, only to realise after each hiatus that there is no other alternative. The immediate question now is if the talks between Prime Minister Modi and his Pakistan counterpart Nawaz Sharif will take place as planned on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in September.
The government has done itself no favours, as the decision is bound to add to the popularity of the separatist leaders in the Valley. Pakistan has described the cancellation as “a setback to the efforts by our leadership to promote good neighbourly relations” with India. Equally, it could prove to be a political setback for Mr. Sharif, who is already under siege. Opposition leader Imran Khan’s agitational politics have shaken the weak foundations of Pakistan’s civilian democracy. Adding to the brinkmanship are elements in the Pakistani security and political establishment that believe their Prime Minister is too soft towards India. The Modi government could only have further weakened Mr. Sharif’s position. That, in the long run, undermines the prospect of normalising India-Pakistan relations, more than the Pakistan High Commissioner’s meeting with Hurriyat leaders.
Prime Minister Modi Fumbles on Pakistan
By THE EDITORIAL BOARD, The New York Times.
India’s prime minister, Narendra Modi, fumbled an early test of leadership this week when he canceled a high-level meeting with Pakistan. There are no two countries in the world that need to talk, and talk regularly, more than these nuclear-armed South Asian neighbors whose tensions must be carefully managed.
Mr. Modi raised expectations that he would work harder at resolving cross-border differences when he took the unorthodox step of inviting Pakistan’s prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, along with other regional leaders to his inauguration in May. The photo of the two men shaking hands came to symbolize the promise of that moment.
But that felicitous picture seemed a fading memory when, on Monday, India canceled foreign-secretary-level talks, which would have been the first in two years, that were scheduled to take place in Islamabad on Aug. 25. The proximate cause was India’s anger over a meeting that Pakistan’s ambassador to India held with a separatist leader from Kashmir, the disputed territory over which the two countries have fought three wars.
But there were other factors as well. Since Mr. Modi took office, violations of a 2003 cease-fire along the Line of Control, the India-Pakistan border in Kashmir, have grown more frequent, 30 by India’s count, 57 by Pakistan’s. Meanwhile, political rhetoric has grown more strident. In his toughest statement on Pakistan to date, Mr. Modi last week charged that Pakistan “has lost the strength to fight a conventional war but continues to engage in the proxy war of terrorism.” He even chose a politically charged venue for his remarks, the border town of Kargil, where the two sides fought in 1999.
Pakistan may not have helped matters by scheduling a meeting with the separatist leader from Kashmir before the talks with India, especially if, as Indian’s foreign ministry suggested, India was undertaking “serious initiatives to move bilateral ties forward.” Pakistan has had regular contact with Kashmiri separatist leaders over the years, and previous Indian prime ministers, including the last prime minister from Mr. Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party, Atal Bihari Vajayee, lived with the practice.
A more plausible excuse is India’s mounting irritation with the border violations and the possibility that they could disrupt elections in Kashmir expected in October and November. These are unquestionably problems in a volatile region, and both sides are justified in calling for the shooting to stop. India also has legitimate concerns about the willingness of Pakistan, especially its army, to tolerate if not encourage anti-India attacks by extremist groups, like the 2008 bombing in Mumbai.
But canceling the meeting was an overreaction on India’s part, especially when it could have served as an opportunity to discuss grievances and press for a solution. Absent such an airing, there is a tendency on both sides to escalate the tensions, with the Indian news media emphasizing Mr. Modi’s willingness to take a tough stand and Pakistan asserting it was not “subservient” to India.
There will always be political excuses not to take risks. Both leaders have challenges at home, but Mr. Modi, who won a huge victory in the May election, is in the strongest political position, while Mr. Sharif is facing street protests led by politicians seeking his ouster.
What’s needed is a meeting between the leaders to establish a continuing dialogue. Next month’s United Nations General Assembly meeting in New York offers a good venue. It would be foolish and dangerous to let this episode destroy the chance for a more stable relationship.
Given that most of the state is full of illegal Bangladeshis or BD-sympathisizing Bongs, the state should be hived off to Bangladesh. These leech-like jokers are sucking the blood of the country.
>> "Not more abominable than ....."
What is more abominable than spreading anti-Muslim hate in a forum in which both Hindus and Muslims participate? But understanding that must be beyond you!
>> What a hateful and ill-bred way to start a commnet! Seems all Sanghi hate pracharaks came from the same mold!
Not more abominable than just denying the misdeeds of the past through lies which you do routinely!
Oh Randeep Singh Surjewala.
The guy who, along with Digvijay and Jha, is appointed to make Pappu look intelligent?
>> "How old is Muslim trait of duplicity and backstabbing in Indian context?"
What a hateful and ill-bred way to start a commnet! Seems all Sanghi hate pracharaks came from the same mold!
Useless fellow Sidharth Varadarajan said in NDTV channel that Modi had to cancel the talk because of RSS influence. So according to Sidharth when Modi called Nawaz Shariff for swearing in funcation, he did not consult RSS or they did not object. He can beg instead of showing his loyalty to other countries.
How old is Muslim trait of duplicity and backstabbing in Indian context? The answer is obviously more than thousand year old but let's shed some light on Nehruvian/Moderate Muslim claim of "secular" Muslim before partition.
Story of Master Tara Singh, sikh representative Shimla round table conference
The termination of services of five teachers of Khalsa College, Amritsar and the case of embezzlement of Gurdwara funds was considered a deliberate attempt by Sir Sikandar Hyatt Khan to undermine the strength of the Akalis in the province.
Master Tara Singh's fears were further augmented by the Sikander-Jinnah Pact of October 1937. It was a development of great significance, according to which, all Muslim member of the Unionist party would join the Muslim league and would follow its policies in all India matters and would remain independent of Muslim league in the provincial matters.
The Sikander-Jinnah Pact led ultimately to sharp polarisation in the politics of Punjab. It changed the politics of Punjab because it afflicted shock to the Hindus and the Sikhs of the Punjab, who considered Sir Sikander, first as a Punjabi and then as a Muslim
####### They considered Sir Sikander first a Punjabi, then a Muslim? Those who don't learn from history are bound to repeat it and THEY DID PAY for this trust in a muslim heavily. Punjab suffered most in partition with rapes/looting common site. ######
Tara Singh fiercely argued against the demand of Muhammad Ali Jinnah and the Muslim League to partition India, forcefully reiterating that such a move would irreparable hurt the Sikh community, which was scattered all over the province of Punjab without a majority in any district.
Tara Singh was especially infuriated at the prospect of Sikhs having to leave their most important political and holy sites in the Punjab, such as Nankana Sahib, Lahore, Rawalpindi and Faisalabad. The Muslim League wanted their majority districts as well from East Punjab such as Amritsar, Firozpur, Aliwal, Dharamkot, Faridkot, Sangroor, Gurdaspur, Mansa district, and Shariffpura.
Master Tara Singh was one of the first leaders to recognise that it would become impossible for Sikhs to continue living in what would become the new state of Pakistan.
#### Perils of living in minority in a Muslim society? That is what is in store for you eventually. Forced conversions, loot, rape.
To be fair, Tara Singh and the Sikhs DID learn fast after this. They ensured none of those scums remained in (East) Punjab after partition, amputated the cancerous organ with great pain. Today Punjab at least is free of any Muslim problem and is very prosperous thanks to the hardwork of millions of migrants from west Punjab. But a generation had to pay price for their folly of trusting Muslims.
That is why reading history is important! Don't repeat the same mistakes!
I knew that Outlook India will not show the true secularism in Kerala. And I didn't get disappointed either. The truth is, Hindus have no voice in Malapuram. Every Hindu family having girls get scared if their daughters are bit late.
Being a comunist Historian I don't expect any truth from Mr. Gangadharan, who hates Hindus,. So no wonder why he praises the Mahpila violence as independent movements. One should ask why the Muslim population has increased tremendeously since 1930s? Did the author of this article bother to go through the English articles on Mahpila violence? My great grandmother said told me once that all the males from her uncle's family were butched and females were taken and converted into Islam. One can hear such stories from Hindus of North and Middle Kerala.
Somebody who says IUML is a secular party is saying moon is white and sun is dark. Outlook closed its ears and eyes who was behind Marad incidents. 8-10 innocent fishemen were hacked to death by IUML cadres, and under the infuence of state govt, the case against IUML weakened and killers free now. Selective secularism by a commie magazine. What else can I expect from this mag!
>>>> "Nirad Chaudhuri did not fabricate."
>> All hate pracharaks fabricate.
In Anwaar's (and in ANY Muslim's world for that matter) world if there is an allegation against Islam of atrocities, destruction, mass killing, terrorism, mass rape of women to bread more muslims,, mass beheadings:
i) If it is claimed to have happened in past, it DID NOT happen, It is all hate propaganda by pracharak's
ii) If it has been claimed to have been a contemporary/recent event with strong evidence (like videos available), they are either a western conspiracy to malign Islam (9-11) or actions of misguided people who are in extremen minority.
What that means is, I repeat, there were no forced conversions and rapes but so many Muslims came in subcontinent (and now that has suddenly stopped somehow) and elsewhere, Iqbal/Jinnah were seculars but somehow suddenly Krapistan came, Kashmir was never about religion but a secession movement came and it just so happened that Pandits were kicked out, North India's temples were mostly ruins god knows how and CIA/jews destroyed the twin towers to malign the most peaceful religion of the world.
As for the future, they just can't wait for Islamic Caliphate to extend to more lands of infidels and can barely hide their glee in friday prayers. True moderate muslim qualities, Anwaar style, whose hallmark is lies, duplicity and doublespeak!
>>>> Iqbal was a hardcore communalist.
>>He never spread hatred against Hindus. He honored Ram in his poetry. His 'two nation theory', imagined in 1920's, was as vague and amorphous as the two nation theories of Lala Lajpat Rai and Madan Mohan Malaviya. Many believe it to be an idea of a Muslim nation within India, not a separate nation.
Following is an excerpt from Wikipedia, not some hate pracharak's diary:For the nation based on ideology of hate on our western front, Iqbal is source of inspiration of ideas of Pakistan. Your ability to lie seems unlimited, try it somewhere else.
The All-India Muslim League rose to popularity in the late 1930s amid fears of under-representation and neglect of Muslims in politics. In his presidential address of 29 December 1930, Muhammad Iqbal called for "the formation of a consolidated North-West Indian Muslim State" consisting of Punjab, North-West Frontier Province, Sind and Baluchistan. Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan, espoused the two-nation theory and led the Muslim League to adopt the Lahore Resolution of 1940, popularly known as the Pakistan Resolution
"So I am attacking your quote out of frustration at the juvenile nature of journalism in India."
I can understand your fraustration.
Have a nice day,sir
Calling off talks between India and Pakistan was a foregone conclusion.
Modi ji had decided about it amidst Pak's continuous shellings and firings during his visit to Kashmir.
Enough explosive material had gathered. Hurriyat leaders meeting with Pak's High Commissioner merely ignited the fire.
A huge tactonic shift in India's foreign policy towards Pakistan is going to take place.
India is closely following Imran Khan/Qadri's joint march from National assembly to Nawaz Sharif's home.
I suggest ,in the meanwhile,India's High commissioner in Pak,may send invites to separatists in Balochistan, Pakhtunistan and the most dangerous Jeay Sindh movement.
Lesson for Pak :
Jinkey ghar sheeshey key hotey hain ,woh doosron par patthar nahi phhektey.
A K SAXENA (A retd civil servant)
>> Members of the Parivar should cut out beans from their diet.
>> Bonita, Chennai
hahahahah, must be chana-masala :D
Saswati Sarkar @sarkar_swati
Astounded at the number of opeds with near identical content espousing Pakistan point of view in Indian media.
Saswati Sarkar @sarkar_swati
Astounded at the number of opeds with near identical content espousing Pakistan point of view in Indian media.
The abysmal state Congress and left loonies have brought the discourse on national interests is indeed astounding.
Thank goodness Modi govt doesn't give a damn about most of these idiots.
Mediacrooks did some good spanking today:
By asking for the post Congress invited humiliation; thus got humiliated.
Who are these worthy advisers of Congress btw?
Members of the Parivar should cut out beans from their diet.
Being a woman in India is unsafe. Being a Muslim in India is even more unsafe. - Anwaar (#1)
Being a woman in India is unsafe. Being a Muslim in India is even more unsafe. - Anwaar (#1)
That's why the Afghan chose to leave his home and stay in India. (The probability is that he is Muslim).
Unfortunately women in India whio feel unsafe have nowhere to go. Muslims in India have the option of migrating to the country created especially for them. Why don't they exercise that option if they feel unsafe in this country and would feel safer in Pakistan?
Of course, they could also migrate to northern Iraq, another safe haven for Muslims today.
Thoughtfully written and well argued. The premise of the article is shown to be correct by the fact that so many comments call it an attack on "Hinduism".
On the auspicious occasion of our honorable ex-PM's birthday, Shri Rajiv Gandhi (Aug 20), lets relive the memories of his greatest contribution to Indian History which will remain sketched on our memories for years to come.
Let us salute the great soul who not only remained silent as a PM when an incident of "ethnic cleansing" was happening in Independent India but also rebuked Jagmohan, then Governor of Kashmir tried to warn him repeatedly about the escalating communal tensions which Rajiv's dear friend, Farooq Abdullah was engineering. For the entire duration of the massacre, Farooq, then CM of J&K was playing Golf somewhere in Europe. A very co-ordinated, beautifully executed chapter in history.
Lest we forget.
Untold story of cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits
Time to pack their bags and head to the fatherland.
>> " Discussing anything with islamists is like discussing with Pakistan."
Discussing anything with hate-crazed morons like you is a total waste of time. You are a good example of how hatred destroys brains.
>> "Your hotheads are implementing Koran 9:29"
The article says nothing about that, but any opportunity to spill your venom is good enough for you!
>> "has never produced even one link to prove his claim that he "rails against Muslim fundus" on any forum."
What a stupid idea! What about my railing at Muslim fundus right here in this forum? Can't you read? Are you blind?
>> "If immersing 11 crore people is really going to make India Congress-free, the rest of Indians will be willing to lend a hand to Shah."
What kind of Indians make such outrageous statements about other Indians? Has your hate driven you totally batty?
>> "Hindu kings did not come from outside India and did not speak an alien language."
The question was whether they too were invaders or not.
>> "Only a handful of Rajputs (were in Mughal courts) ...."
You pretend to be so knowledgeable! So please tell us how many Hindus were in government service during Mughal times.
>> :"Those invaded our land and subjugated us, felt superior to us are outsiders. Those who sought refuge in India, did not impose themselves on us, became one of us."
You seem to be making rules as you go along! If feeling superior debars one from being Indian then all caste Hindus are not Indians! Why don't you stop making a fool of yourself?
>> "I always thought that in a democracy the one with NUMBERS rules."
The distinction between true democracy and majoritarianism is important. You should look it up.
>> "We Hindus are "secular" so we only take on the saffronites."
You are a saffronite whose life is devoted to badmouthing Muslims. Please don't call yourself a Hindu.
>> On the Kanth incident in Moradabad over a loudspeaker, the chief minister said that it was "not" such a big issue.
What is the big issue in asking the hindus to remove the loudspeaker and hear the Azaan blaring out of three mosques instead?
>> "Indian Muslims going to Haj are classified as Hindus by Arab countries?"
This is false. Some Arabs may informally call a Muslim a "Hindu", but don't try to make it sound like an official designation! In any case in India we should know who is a Hindu and who is not a Hindu. Why do you want to make an issue out of it? Don't we already have enough problems?
>> The Afghan, working as a waiter at a restaurant in Hauz Rani area of south Delhi, had come to the city almost a year back and was staying even after his visa expired
Hopefully he shall be kicked out now. That might be one good fallout of this otherwise useless story, which did nothing but raise the Paki's muslim ears.
>> Why did it take so long?
Evidence had to be tampered, witnesses had to be threatened and bribed, pliant officers had to be placed in place. All these things take time.
>> "Nirad Chaudhuri did not fabricate."
All hate pracharaks fabricate.
>> Iqbal was a hardcore communalist.
He never spread hatred against Hindus. He honored Ram in his poetry. His 'two nation theory', imagined in 1920's, was as vague and amorphous as the two nation theories of Lala Lajpat Rai and Madan Mohan Malaviya. Many believe it to be an idea of a Muslim nation within India, not a separate nation.
People are missing Sonia's warmth and humour.
BJP's Parivar is spoiling the atmosphere in India. SP is not much better.
Being a woman in India is unsafe. Being a Muslim in India is even more unsafe.
Why did it take so long?
All Hindus should be proud of their Hindutva or Hinduness, just as all Indians are proud of their Indianness. Making such labels an issue is the anti-national agenda of the RSS.
Do the citizens of India also appreciate highly " About their discussions with Basit, the Mirwaiz said he apprised him about the situation in the Kashmir Valley and added that the move to hold talks with the separatist leadership despite opposition from India was "highly appreciated"." assuming Kashmir staters have no more rights than any other citizens of India.
It is time to remove special rights of Kashmirees and solve this ridiculous wrangling.
"I will not participate...." Pretty soon the public will decide. Don't worry Mr. Hooda.
"Muslims abducted women, and their rulers desecrated temples and forcibly converted Hindus to their faith. They also talked about the wars of the Rajputs, the Marathas, the Sikhs and Aurangzeb’s oppression. Later in life, Chaudhuri was convinced of the enormity of destruction of places of worship. During all those centuries all over northern India, he added a false note, only ruins of temples survived."
Nirad Chaudhuri did not fabricate. Accounts of contemporary writers- Muslims and non-Muslims alike gave the same facts.
"Mohammed Iqbal had written: Ai Ab-e rud Ganga wo din hai yaad tujhko; utra tere kinare jab caravan humra."
Iqbal was a hardcore communalist and was among the intellectuals who conceived the idea of a separate state for Muslims.
"Finally, in a society where religion plays a dominant role in virtually every walk of life, it is the historian’s task to bring secularism into our discussions and to affirm its validity as a principle guiding the nation’s life. To renounce this claim is to surrender the Nehruvian project.."
Oh My..You lost your case with that ...We all know there was a Nehruvian project to rewrite and whitewash history supporting communal harmony of secularism sweeping all the inconvenient and embarrassing facts about communal discord under the carpet. But the left wing intellectuals and historians refuse to admit the existence of great Nehruvian fabrication of history project.You are at least honest to admit that historians indeed worked on Nehruvian historiography project.
When RSS leaders say all people living in Hindustan are Hindus, the sky starts to fall. But why the seculars remain silent when Indian Muslims going to Haj are classified as Hindus by Arab countries? What is the difference? Even Muslims don't object to that. I have not heard a single Muslim boycotting Haj because of that.
Their purpose got served. They were trying to instigate India to cancel the talk. They tried different tracks. Any one track would work. Apparently meeting with separatists worked as India pretty much ignored border violation. India was OK with Pakistan wasting expensive ammunition as long as it was not causing major damage.
As a self proclaimed enlightened liberal open minded secular why does he object to uniform civil code?
KASHMIR POLITICS AS FILTHY AS DAL LAKE.
TERRORIST TENTACLES REACH INTO POLITICS AND BUSINESS --------------------------------------------- ------- 8. (C) As previously reported, recent arrests indicate that wanted terrorists have secured positions in prominent Kashmiri political parties, including the National Conference, People's Democratic Party, and even Congress (ref 06 New Delhi 556). Their positions as councilors and elected party representatives allowed them special security access NEW DELHI 00000804 003.2 OF 003 that gave them the ability to plot and carry-out the assassinations of several Kashmiri politicians. Media reports also indicate that terrorists have infiltrated several leading business institutions. One of the principal suspects in the October 2005 Delhi bombings, for instance, worked as a senior sales representative for Johnson & Johnson in J&K. More recently, two officials of the Bombay Merchantile Cooperative Bank were arrested for being suspected Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) operatives.