Apropos Put My View on the Table (May 14), I come from an OBC family with origins in Andhra Pradesh. I grew up in a town in Tamil Nadu but close to the Kerala border. And I’ve been living in Karnataka for some time now. So I can say with some conviction that, as far as the southern states go, your article on beef-eating is founded on a faulty premise. I am also given to understand that the Yadavs, an OBC community of north India, by and large, avoid meat-eating. So do many other north Indian OBC communities. Most of them, in fact, have an agrarian background and consider the cow holy. To say that OBC groups are using beef-eating as an assertion of identity is a provocative attempt to divide Hindu society.
Ranjit, Bangalore
There’s a whole set of people who want Dalits, backward classes, women and such weaker groups to give up their rights.
Bharat Paul, San Francisco
Those who speak against cow slaughter by equating cattle with agrarian wealth fail to see that it has become economically unviable for farmers to keep milch and draught animals; it’s cheaper to hire tractors than to use oxen for ploughing. I remember my father, a farmer, grieving over his inability to feed his favourite bull in the summer. Eventually, unable to see it starving, he sold it for slaughter. No doubt the reverence accorded to cattle is waning. Despite this, it must be noted that chiefly, it’s only non-milk-yielding cattle that is sold for slaughter. Beef is a cheap source of nutrition, which is why poor families take to it. I also have some Brahmin friends in the US who eat beef.
K. Madhu, Hyderabad
We’ve gone berserk. In the name of personal liberty, people are talking in support of gay rights, allowing cow slaughter and so on. They forget what our culture and our spiritual leaders have long upheld. If beef-eating is an assertion of identity, why not insist on eating humans too, for once upon a time, many primitive tribes were cannibals?
N.K. Singhal, Rohtak
It isn’t surprising that the long-overdue battlecry against food fascism was raised at educational institutions like jnu and Osmania University. It’s not the beef that is in question—Hindus of all castes have eaten it, though some of them may have done it surreptitiously. What is unique is that “beef festivals” like the one at Osmania are making a provocative statement by making beef-eating public. The idea was political provocation, so why cry foul over the backlash from organisations like the abvp?
K.S. Jayatheertha, Bangalore
When the state can’t feed all its citizens, it has no right to set restrictions on what they eat.
K.P. Rajan, Mumbai
You quote Dr Veena Shatrughna of the National Institute of Nutrition, Hyderabad, as saying beef is good because it could address people’s protein needs. For one, she is no longer with the institution, having retired four years ago. And what she discounts is the bad fat in beef and other meat that clogs up your arteries and counters all the good of that protein.
J.S. Acharya, Hyderabad
I have friends in all religions and castes. The citations referred to in the ancient Sanskrit scriptures and works by Kalidasa et al with reference to the Osmania University beef festival may well have been introduced by the British, and the manuscripts fabricated, for all you know. The British had, in fact, even hired the services of Indian scholars to manipulate/alter verses in the Sikh predictive scriptures like the Sausakhis etc. A chapter of the Dasam Granth Sahib called Ugradanti clearly mentions the invocation of Shakti by the 10th guru to eradicate cow slaughter from the face of the earth, not just India or Punjab.
Tejender Singh Sethi, Dehradun
Eating beef was never taboo in Kerala, even among many Hindus. I remember my student days 45 years ago, when we had a “beef mess” for students wanting to economise on monthly boarding costs.
Haridasan Mathilakath, Mumbai
After the outbreak of mad cow disease and swine flu, many in the West have given up on red meat; some are even turning vegetarian. But here in India, beef is an identity weapon. Let them eat it in private; why disturb campus peace?
R.K. Singh, Gurgaon
If banning the killing of wildlife for any purpose—including consumption—is okay, there’s nothing wrong with banning beef either.
Kiran Voleti, Chennai
Like the demand for non-smoking areas in restaurants and elsewhere, people should start demanding veg messes too.
Ram N., Hyderabad
I am from Assam, a northeastern state. Beef-eating is prohibitted among Hindus irrespective of caste here.
Who's stopping anyone from having beef?
People have it all the time in much of urban India.
In private,of course.
To do this(organise a beef eating 'festival'(whatever that means)) in a public university is just communal.
Nothing else.
Beef is a good source of cholesterol not protein.
But if you have a bypass death wish, by all means have as much as you can,but not in a public educational institute.If you do, then let people organise pork eating festivals too which is also a blatantly communal thing to do.
Fair game,then.
And it doesn't matter that some people don't want any beef to be eaten.This is a fundamental right,just like smoking.So please stop with the poverty arguments/excuses justifying it.Even if you aren't poor you can bloody well eat it.
But when ,where & how are 3 important aspects aren't they?
Madhu,
You have not understood what Pinaki is saying. He would have old milch cattle shot, and reprocessed. Only he would not have it EATEN. Like we let grain rot while people starve. He has not understood desperate poverty of much of India.
About beef being a good source of protein & iron, I must say that most of beef that is eaten is not actually bred to be eaten. Since most Indians do not eat beef that is why it is cheap. Like price of fish in Bombay is about 1/3 rd of the price in Madras, because West India is more vegetarian compared to south which is almost 100% non vegetarian.
Pinkis S Ray >>But I will never ever eat beef in India. That practice there is just to show your disdain to your motherland licking the boots of the middle-eastern invaders carrying the torch of Islam.
If you think eating Beef is a Muslim issue, you are mistaken. It is an economic issue as we go forward. Small farmers are moving away using cattle to plough the land and renting tractors instead. Then what are you going to do with these animals? People all over the world eat beef. In what way Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Europeans and Africans are less than Hindus? You are asking middle class people to spend four times more money for goat/lamb meat than beef. With limited budget instead of eating meat once in two months, they can afford to eat twice a month. Recent survey said over 60 percent Indian girls have Iron deficiency. Is it not enough to change our food habits. No one is forcing people who don't want to eat. I come from a middle class Hindu farming family, and I and many of my friends including Brahmins eat beef for last 43 years. I am talking this with experience and beef is a fine protein I highly recommend.
"Can you tell us what do they do to older milch cattle in the west...." - R. SAROJA # 62/D-78
"Can you tell us what do they do to older milch cattle in the west...." -
R. SAROJA # 62/D-78
It is not clear to me how this question arises in the context of this column which is focused on beef eating by all so-called "backward Hindu castes" as if that leads to some (fictitious?) emancipation. It is the same mindset as raising the episode of Dara Singh as in your post # 25/D-73
" But I feel very sad about the muslim cattle trader who was brutally killed by Dara Singh, the bloated empty head who thought that he was doing a great service to hinduism."
Remember that many many Hindu Kashmiri Pandits have been brutally killed by the sword of Islam. This column by Ms Anuradha Raman attempts to combat Hinduism by standing on the platform of Islam by drumming up beaf eating as if it is a big forward step by some Hindus without having a clue what beef eating implies. It is just whipping up anti-Himdu phobia.
Born and brought up as a Hindu, I do enjoy eating beef as "Entrecote cafe de Paris", or occassionally even as "Chateaubriand". Nobody can disqualify me from being a Hindu by his "fatwa".
But I will never ever eat beef in India. That practice there is just to show your disdain to your motherland licking the boots of the middle-eastern invaders carrying the torch of Islam.
Now to answer your question which should be really directed to the cattle industry of the western world. In my understanding, the dairy cattle undergoes the same fate as domestic animals such as cats and dogs. They will be humanely killed, i.e. no hallal here, when their use-by-date is passed. Their skins and other parts are used in industries such as leather. I know that a certain membrane from the pork belly is used in dental implantation procedure for grafting the implant for deceased tooths. I do not know what Muslims have to say in this regard of having to carry pork part in their mouth..
Honestly speaking you should not take my word as truth without verification in this context. Anyway your post gave me the cue to disect this column. Thank you.
PINAKI RAY >> Hence eating of locallly produced beef needs to be banned
Can you tell us what do they do to older milch cattle in the west. Here they are slaughtered legally or illegally.
MADHU
You are the only one to raise the point of view of agriculturists. In your village (I am assuming it to be AP)what happenned to the older cattle?
The comments of Mr Arun and Mr Ranjit are reassuring. Whether the writer is ignorant or devious, as an Andhra one thing I know for sure is: this Kancha Ilaiah is a devious guy, a literate crook. He should be called an anti-social element, not a Socialogist. He regularly keeps peddling such divisive stuff in the regional publications.
"CALL FOR SANITY AND SOME OPEN QUESTIONS" - R. SAROJA # 25/D-73
"CALL FOR SANITY AND SOME OPEN QUESTIONS" -
R. SAROJA # 25/D-73
Why not agree with this call with the sanity of "banning eating of beef right across the board in India as it is practised at present" ?
That is precisely because of the fact that the Muslims in India are blindly following Arabs in their "choice of beef". If they, and all others, wish to eat beef, they should rather follow the Europeans ! There won't be any open questions then.
In the European system cattle is separated in two categories:
- "dairy cattle" which deliver all milk products such as milk, cream, cheese etc.
- "beef cattle" which are specially bred for eating their meat.
Dairy cattle is never slaughtered for eating. And beef cattle is bred under stringent regulatory conditions. Otherwise they are harmful health wise to eat.
This Kancha Ilaiah is really "Kancha" - he should be shown the door out in this matter.
To my knowledge, in India there is no animal husbandry program for breeding beef cattle. Hence eating of locallly produced beef needs to be banned irrespective of the religious feelings of the Muslims who are keen to mimic the Arabs on all accounts.
Let those wants to eat BEEF do so but let their not be FESTIVAL OF BEEF EATING. Else let festival of EATING peacock, deer, wild boar etc etc all be allowed to be held as the SC/ST used to consume meat of all this animals too.
Let there be hygenic slaughter houses, package BEEF and sell it to anyone who wants to eat it.
If some students object to BEEF being served in hostels kitchen let there be separate hostels for BEEF EATERS. The smell of "BEEF being cooked or eggs being fried" may be "mouth watering" for some but "nuseating" for others.
Let Muslim dominated HYDERABAD don't try to create communal divide to split HINDUs on CASTE lines by instigating a section of students to hold BEEF EATING FESTIVAL..
I agree with Ranjit. Most of Jats, Gujjars and Yadavs of North India are farmer.They want milk and butter from cows than meat. With Jats claiming to desendent of Ramji and Yadav claiming to be desendent of Krishanji, its difficult to argue OBC want to challenge hinduism. OBCs in North are more against beef than Bhraman or Bania.
PS: I am an OBC.
Correction. In my previous post, I meant "Yadavs from NorthIndia do not believe in BEEF eating""
Being an OBC, originally from a town in Tamilnadu bordering Kerala with antecedents in Andhra and currently living in Karnataka, I can say with some authenticity, the central theme of this article in faulty. Most OBCs belonging to agrarian society consider cow as sacred and buffalo as something that is dear to us in agri activities.
I remember in my father's village, on pongal days, cows were decorated and treated with utmost reverance and I am aware this practice is so widespread in South India across communities. I am also given to understand that Yadavs from NorthIndia do not believe in meat eating.
Given this, to say that OBC consider BEEF eating as asserting their identity is at best an effort to create a divide among Hindu communities for ulterior motives. Expectedly, provokes non-OBCs to lash at reservation as a whole eliciting further reactionary response.
The author must be ashamed to write such ignorant / sweeping pieces in the name of journalism, either out of ignorance or deliberate divisive agenda. I suspect it is the latter as I see a sudden spurt of divisive topics, in popular media in recent times, all over India dividing people along castes, regions and religions, economic classes with active media collusion. As usual, our unsuspecting population falls prey to it. History keeps repeating.
Tribals eat the meat of Peacock, Boar, Bison & quite a few wild animals - it is a crime because the govt says so. If the govt can ban the meat these animals, they can as well ban beef.
Charan Dewry >>Why should TALIBAN alone make profit from OPIUM trade.
The students who celebrated the Beef festivals in OU campus were Hindus from many segments of Hindu society. Only people who opposed it were ABVP. The plight of farmers is a joke for you. What are you going to recommned next? Prostitution! Cattle based agricultre is becoming uneconomical for a small farmer. Man invented machines to make life easy. India produces a million Engineers a year, and you see on City streets people still carry 100 kg sacks on their heads. Our so called smart City guys could not design simple affordable wheel barrel to carry. You rather starve our cattle than using their meat for consmption by some. Instead of eating lamb with Rs 400/kg once, one can eat beef at Rs 100 kg four times and save the money. Learn from Japanese, Chinese and Koreans who have advance their socity much further than India.
>>>>>I have some Brahmins friends in US who eat beef.<<<<
Eating BEEF is not the issue- making the SC do it as a BEEF EATING festival in Muslim dominated HYDERABAD is. This is part of MUSLIMS efforts to create communal divide amongst HINDUS and split HINDUs on CASTE lines. BEEF is eaten all over NE India & South India without any problem.
If the plight of farmers is the issue, allow farmers also to grow OPIUM as food crops have become non-renumerative. Why should TALIBAN alone make profit from OPIUM trade.
I've matured enough to tolerate someone sitting besides me eating steak or pork or chicken. I hope we Indians get matured enough to tolerate and respect ones food habits without having to resort to stone pelting and bus burning.
Come'on Subbarao,
Those students who are agitating against beef being served in Indian academic campuses are going to automatically mature themselves when they arrive in the US. :-)
Why don't we give them a chance to mature in India itself?.
The small farmers can't feed the uneconomical cattle. We can't expect a farmer to plough the land with bulls when rental tractors are becoming cheap. Milk giving cows are not slaugtered, and only bulls and non-milk giving cows are used for beef. The cost of beef is Rs. 125/kg vs goat/lamb is Rs. 400/kg . Also think what are you going to do with these animals. As a farmer's child 50 years ago, I witnessed the agony of my father for not able to feed his favorite bull in summer months after it got old. Few years he tried to feed and eventually he could not see the bull starving and sold it to slaughter crying. That is the economical reality of rural farmers. Also beef is cheap and provide protein for many poor Hindus. I have some Brahmins friends in US who eat beef.
Dear Selva 43/D-16,
I am sorry, I am unqualified to comment about the taste of steak in Dallas because I am a vegetarian.
I go out with my friends for lunch and eat garden salad while others feast on steak. I've matured enough to tolerate someone sitting besides me eating steak or pork or chicken. I hope we Indians get matured enough to tolerate and respect ones food habits without having to resort to stone pelting and bus burning.
I gratuated from Osmania and there was no demand for Beef in my times (a decade ago), well, Kancha hadn't risen to this prominence during that time.All sc/st's/bc/fc enjoyed whatever food was served in the mess.
I was commenting about the specific case in India and not US. In India it is common to find veg/non veg sections, no one gets offended by separate kitchens, unless Dalit saviours like Kancha and Meena raise a stink.
Having segregated kitchens will satisfy both parties, please note that several of my SC and OBC are vegetarians on certain days due to their religious beliefs, they will also benefit from such an arrangement. It is a collossal myth to think all SC's and OBC's are beef eaters, there are several communities that detest beef among the lower castes.
As a non forward caste (defined 5000 yrs back) non reservation caste (defined 62 and again 21yrs back) person of the majority religion of India, I find the entire discussion very amusing and equally bigoted.
( As everyone identified themselves implicitly or explicitly here, I felt my views wont have any value if I too do not do this :) )
While there is no doubt that caste system is followed in an extreme inhuman way in the hinterlands of India, most of the people advocating their rights are the ones who have relished the reservations (just like their own father and grandfather before them)and never really faced discrimination first hand. Their only agenda is to gain prominence by following such causes. They will never highlight the bane the caste system is on the country nor will take any steps towards eliminating it.
On the other hand the forward castes consider that its their birthright as well as burden to to shove down the 'correct' form of Hindutva down every 'other' Hindus throat. Justification of caste system / Vegetarianism/ Astrology even in todays society based on the sanathana dharma written 5000 years back(while simultaneously bashing quran for propagating ideas from medieval centuries) is very typical of them.
The question is- do the people of either castes have the right to assert themselves? Well in the inclusive secular democracy that we have, they do have the right. For some its by staying vegetarian, for others its by eating beef/pork. But it is always everyone’s private matter. Hurting your own sentiments is trivial and irrational here when what you eat dosent determine your caste anyways!
Our task must be to free ourselves ...by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and it's beauty...Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. -Albert Einstein Just Joe King
1)//Much of the problem can be addressed if we put beef on our plates// Really? How about keeping the animal alive & consuming milk & milk products? That is clearly more practical.Though,there are exceptions. But this is generally the case. 2)The author of the article talks about the protein content of beef.An extreme argument would be that the protein content of humans must also be high so why not eat dead bodies so that they don't go to waste? BUt that is not my argument. My argument is -Why not talk about the high cholesterol content? 3)I believe someone raised the olympic medal issue & connected the dots to believe beef would improve our chances in the olympics. Sushil Kumar is vegetarian. :-) Vijender Singh is not a beef eater & the other boxers who qualified this time consist of quite a few vegetarians & NO beef eaters. 4)Pork,is actually the most popular meat in the world. 2 out of every 5 Kg of meat eaten around the world is Pork. Pork is eaten regularly in the north east & is favoured in meat eating parts of India. Always has been among meat eaters of the sub continent. Goa is predominantly catholic and beef is available there but they prefer pork. it is pork vindaloo that is popular not beef vindaloo. But these 'festival' organisers were obviously scared of the consequences of a pork eating festival. 5)Our secularism in India,is a religious kind of secularism. Not the separation of the church and the state,but the inclusion of mandir,masjid,gurdwara,church,yajnya-shala with the state. Now,if you want to change this,that's absolutely fine. But,you can't go around expecting leniency from just 1 group of people.You CAN'T have such a bkatantly communal 'festival' in what is clearly NOT a private institution. 6)Isn't it about time to move past the birth-based caste-system? Pardon my language but,Why perpetuate this bullcrap? BTW A 'Dalit' can bloody well become a so-called 'Brahmin'. many have. I have personally met a pundit based in Delhi who was an ex-dalit from western U.P. I have also interacted with an ex-muslim from west bengal who is now a pundit. I also know of organisations who are conducting upanayana ceremony for everyone,every caste & women. The idiots who believe they are 'upper-caste' just because they have an ancestor from 2000 years ago who was reasonably intelligent are only perpetuating this nonsense & so are the people who believe them.This also applies to the so-called lower castes. Noone here is angelic. So,when India is changing,at least partially,why perpetuate these barriers? 7)I do NOT know my caste. But I must be upper-caste because I used to check the 'general' box while filling in national competitive exam forms.In any case evolution is a fact & I wish more people would not take religion too seriously. BUT,not slaughtering cows has become a part of our culture & sub-culture.This is very much like Diwali & Holi.These have become Indian festivals & are not just celebrated by the dharmikas(hindus,jains,buddhists,sikhs). No worries. Just Joe King
It is sad that people who want to call themselves as Buddhist are celebrating a festival of eating an innocent cattle. Is this the sensitivity what Buddha teached and what Ambedkar followed?
@ SACHIN- Jainism & Buddhism is anextremly peaceful religion but Hinduism is not. Where ever the MINORITIS in India are in MAJORITY- Christians in Mizoram, Nagaland and Muslims in Kashmir, Hindus have been persecuted while the "secular nation" quitely watched. NAGAS who have fully converted to Christianity blockaded NATIONAL HIGHWAY to Manipur with majority HINDUS for more than 100 days and the "NATION did nothing". But when Kashmir which has majority of MUSLIMS was blockaded at Jammu- by the subjected of J&K state itself- the POLICE swung into action to break it up in JUST THREE DAYS.
The BEEF EATING FESTIVAL also happened in MUSLIM MAJORITY AREA of Andhra- HYDERABAD. Why was BEER DRINKING & OPIUM FESTIVALS aslo not held. The SC/ ST of India consumed 'self fermened BEER & OPIUM" as indoxicant from time immemorial and if in doubt just visit any NE TRIBE who still fermant their own RICE BEER.
It is funny that people who live in the west especially US are suggesting that beef must be avoided in universities. Do you suggest the same to the authorities or refuse to send your kids to schools/colleges over there ?. :-)
I've already suggested that the best thing the Hindutvadis do is to organise pork and beef festivals in Govt. funded Muslim academic institutions and invite Kancha Ilaiah / Meena Kandasamy et.al the "non-Dalit" Dalit activists who have either their own agendas or their masters' agendas. As they say in Tamil, you can hit two mangoes in one stone, endear yourself to Dalits and other lo castes and expose these fraud activists.
Simple solution to this bovine conundrum, Let there be veg/nonveg dining places across all university campuses (or atleast where they want Beef/pork ) to be served, so that students who relish beef and who loath beef can enjoy their sumptuous lunch without offending the sentiments of one another.
Mr.Subbarao from Dallas,
I've heard that steak is tasty there. Do you want the same segregation for veg/non-veg to happen in universities there?. Why don't you migrate to wherever you want the segregation?.
Haven't the SC/ST's found any other way of asserting identities apart from eating beef ,while selectively excluding Pork as not to offend the other "opressed" minority community?
How about asserting identities by shunnin reservations and competing in open category along with other FC students and setting a glorious example to the generations ahead?
How about abdicating the relaxed age limits and lower cutoff marks for SC/ST's and assert their caste identity by proving they are not inferior to anyone and can give forward castes a run for their money ? Perhaps I am asking too much here.
Simple solution to this bovine conundrum, Let there be veg/nonveg dining places across all university campuses (or atleast where they want Beef/pork ) to be served, so that students who relish beef and who loath beef can enjoy their sumptuous lunch without offending the sentiments of one another. Or will veg/non-beef students be accused of enforcing Bhraminical segregation now ?
@Charan dewry : Yet to see any Jains or Buddhists disrupting law and order over the issue. You are wrong,its the sanghsis alone!!
The STs of NE INDIA- Mizos, Nagas, Khasis, Gharos, Dhimasas, Kukis, Hmars, Paites, Bodos, Arunachal Tribes etc etc were never ever discriminated by HINDUS as they lived in their geographic areas with their own KINGS and VILLAGE HEADMAN. The real discrimination was done by US CHRISTIANS who "captured, transported, sold, Bred and traded" the BLACK AFRICANS like ANIMALS but the BLACKs refuse to accept RESERVATION as it exists in India insisting that they are equal to WHITES. RESERVATION IS OPEN ACCEPTANCE OF THE INFERIOR STATUS, especially by the NE TRIBES who were never under Hindu control. The NAGAS/ MIZOS etc has/had money to buy AK47 to fight with Indians but do not have money to have a Medical Collage or Engineering Collage in their states. They join ASSAM professional collages in reserved seats for ST but discriminate against ASSAMESE in their states. MIZOS study in SICHAR MEDICAL COLLAGE in Assam on ST quota but keep out Assamese from MIZORAM just 40 Km from Sichar and calls them VAI- outsider. BEING A HINDU IS THE BIGGEST CRIME IF YOU LIVE IN NE INDIA and secularism in India is equated with anti-Hinduism while in PAK, the Indian Muslims- yes Pak Muslims were Indian Muslims till 1947 has sorted out the HINDUS.
How is BEEF EATING only anti-HINDU????? The JAINS & most BUDDHIST do not eat any ANIMAL MEAT while most SIKH also do not eat BEEF. So why is BEEF EATING not anti-JAINISM, anti- BUDDHISM or anti- SIKHISM???
When there are so many issues with people of nation, why are you publishing issues related to beef, this is 3rd time, that you have raised this issue? @Outlook
If beef is a symbol of resurgence, it will be a pathetic resurgence indeed.
That aside, the whole issue of banning cow slaughter is phony. Eating beef does not take one outside the hindu fold. It is a phony issue and people who advocate banning cow slaughter are doing so only because they have nothing else to do.
>>>>There must be a gentler, more sensitive way to assert one's identity.......Ashok Lal
Well said, sir. Irrefutable argument. In a world poisoned by an overdose of violence, what we need are gentler and more sensitive methods.
You had the first word, let it be the last too.
@Sachin
I don't give a rat's you know what for phallic worship, I have nothing against cow slaughter, if anything, it will ensure cleaner streets.
But I think your excuse for reservations has run its course.
1.THEY were never discriminated against, nor are today's descendents of Brahmins responsible for their ancestors action and to punish them for being their descendents is casteism, plain and simple
2.STs were NOT discriminated against.
3.There are many UPPER CASTE OBCs, like the Jats in Haryana, Baniyas in Jhatkhand, Gujjars in Rajasthan, etc.
So reserving seats for them, doesn't make any sense.
Japan and Korea had their own Dalits, the Burakumin and the BaekJeong, they deconstructed them through industrialization and social reform, but then again, that is too much to be expected from you lot.
Yes, caste based reservations were meant to correct centures old injustice to the down trodden. But, what can justify that the children of rich babus (IAS, IPS and politicans, etc, who has benefitted from reservations) continue to avail it's benefits, while the poor forward class youth continue to remain poor, just because they belong to a caste...I feel that the caste based reservations should be restricted to just one generation in a family.
Now the non-beef eaters should come up with this: they should demand for hostels / messes which don't serve any beef..Just like non-smoking rooms / hotels..
The Hindu fanatics in this forum are the biggest proof that education does not bring enlightment. @ Naveen Kumar Singhal : Sir, please check the year. The world has progressed, time to stop going to shakha i guess. @RK Singh: what load of crap .How come these stupid theories keep coming back? Why don’t you cite a scientific research paper in support of your argument? @Vinod Kumar: The reservation is there to correct centuries of injustice. And to all those giving example of USA, search affirmative action. @bowenpalle venuraja gopal rao: You quote Osho and the matter really ends. May be wrong, but there is always a doubt about the mental ability of any one believing in Osho types. Nirmal Baba is the new trend, wake up bakht.
The purpose of this festival was to provoke period how much intellectual excuse( providing identity) you can try to give . Calling a hatemonger like Kanchan Illaih as sociologist is far more offensive than the Beef festival.
We have gone berserk. Media of our country has gone into hands of nerds. What are we deliberating these days in the name of personal liberty. Legalising consensual sex between two males and females against the order of nature with support from media. Allowing cow slaughter. If the so called dalits think that beef eating is the only way to assert their identity why don't they ask for human flesh in thier menu because at some point of time in history there were tribes indulging in cannibalism. Disgusting where our leaders and media have taken our country. Its high time that our leadership goes into hands of some hardcore nationalist who believes in the historial spiritual leadership that we attained when our vedic scriptures were revealed and we showed to the world the path to salvation.
Beef festival is only an excuse to hurt the Hindu religious susceptiblities.Kancha Ilaiah and his Christian mentors are ever so eager to humiliate the Hindu soceity under some pretext or the other.There are hundreds of Muslim run restaurants which serve beef items.No Hindu has ever objected to that.But people like Kancha Ilaiah are making false claims that beef is Dalit's staple food and they are damn scared to say that Dalits' preferred food is pork.
@@But I would not impose my views on others. @@@Anwaar
Yes, that is correct. Use of force or trying to enforce through an act of law would not solve the problem at all. At the same time , we have no right to hurt the sentiments of others. The biggest problem according to health surveys in India is that of people suffering from anemia and vitamin 'B' complex deficiency and surprisingly not the protein, that too in a county like India.
In USA nobody is asking them to adopt vegetarian food but many Americans are moving towards veg ( vegan) food and even raw vegetable food to solve problems like obesity ,premature ageing etc.,
Curry is a great gift of India to the world. Now it is conclusively proved that use of turmeric everyday prevents alzheimer' disease. A vegetable curry well prepared is actually an Ayurveda medicine.
so killing animals is how you assert your identity!
Bowenpalle,
I agree with you that vegetarian food is more healthy, and one can get all the essential nutrients from a well balanced vegetarian diet. But I would not impose my views on others.
There are these so called "intellectuals" who think and also propounded false theories like "Buddhism brought vegetarianism to Hinduism and that Buddhists gave the idea of building temples etc.”
The fact was that Hindu word was invented by Arabs. History of Ashoka the Great shows that he was a vegetarian much before he embraced Buddhism. And Buddhists were never Vegetarians in spite of Lord Buddha’s preaching not to kill anything just to satisfy your appetite.
If you go to Japan the first problem you may get is to eating a vegetarian food since beef is served everywhere. In Korea and Philippines, Thailand you would feel problem for proper food because monkeys are eaten in Thailand, dogs are eaten in Korea and Philippines. Some time back until Govt. banned it, monkey brain is eaten live (while it is struggling for life ) and blood was sipped right of live monkey in this Buddhist country called Thailand, right in the open markets. Dalai Lama eats fish and meat according to my knowledge.
Hinduism ( the correct word is "sanathana dhrama") was the first one to preach mankind to eat vegetarian food not just for good physical health but for good mental health. See the Zoo, all non-veg eating animals are extremely disturbed while all veg eating animals appear peaceful. Buddha enriched Hindu thought and he did not tell anything new , neither he "invented" any "AUM" or "OHM", it is a sound even a beginner in meditation can hear within just a few days !! Lord Buddha was not against Hinduism or Vedic thought but against Brahmanism. Hinduism and Brahmanism are not one and the same. I can be a Hindu but I can be an atheist. I can be a Hindu but against idol worship like for example Brahma Kumaris, Arya samaj, Brahmo Samaj and many other sects and cults of Hinduism.
But India is probably ( except Bhutan and Nepal ) the only country where you have exclusive Vegetarian Hotels or even small restaurants. Malnutrion is not related to vegetarian food. Many African countries are Muslim countries but in these countries ,even though, they are in middle of forests, people particularly pregnant and growing children are suffering from malnutrition. In India specially among OBC and SC/ST people are suffering from malnutrition even though all most all of them eat beef ( dead or live ) ,crows,pigs,and rats. Most of them pigs and rats( they go hunting for rats by digging in paddy fields ).
Animal food gives only proteins but not iron or minerals or vitamins. In India most of the woman of OBC ,EBC,SC/ST have a serious deficiency of iron and majority suffer from anemia. Children born to them suffer from lack of memory ,drowsiness, beriberi and other problems associated with vitamins and minerals which are plenty in milk and milk products, leafy vegetables like palak etc., The issue about proteins has been blown out of proportion , as if it were a panacea for all malnutrition problems in India.
CALL FOR SANITY AND SOME OPEN QUESTIONS
I am reposting part of a comment that I posted on another thread.
As I see it, lot of emotion is being generated, without trying to understand the other party. I kow that most hindus do not eat beef but they would be horrified by the vigilantism of Dara Singh (Killer of Graham Staines and his sons, and also killer of a muslim cattle trader in a gruesome way.) Equally true that practically no muslim eats pork but they do not meddle with others eating pork.
1. Do you ban milk or what do you do with old cattle?
2. Before Hindutva parties came into existence (around 1925), what was the actual practice with cattle (as opposed to visible practice)?
I have my roots in rural Tamil Nadu. I know that farmers sell off their old cows and bulls. These days since farm labour has become very expensive, small farmers prefer to hire tractor rather than maintain draught animals. Male calves are sent to slaughter house. Cow slaughter is illegal in TN, so old cows are transported to Kerala where cow slaughter is legal. Everyone knows and everyone looks the other way.
In the north I don't know what happens. None of my north indian friends has any rural roots. But I feel very sad about the muslim cattle trader who was brutally killed by Dara Singh, the bloated empty head who thought that he was doing a great service to hinduism. Harrassing cattle traders was one of the chief activities of Bajrang Dal. I agree the traditional way of life in India, which held cow sacred yet allowed for (non visible) slaughter of cows was hypocritical, but life is thus, full of life affirming hypocrisy.
Or we can take the Gandhian way, no hypocrisy, say drinking cow milk is equivalent to drinking cow's blood (Gandhi was very consistent, grant it), carry a goat everywhere, which you milk and take care of.
Or there is a way which comes from having right hemisphere of brain damaged. So all reasonings and rationalisations without any sense of proportion. The directive principle of state policy on cow slaughter comes from that. So do all plans of go-shalas.
Try imposing ban on cow slaughter in Kerala, there would be riots in Kerala and Tamil Nadu atleast. Not because some people can or cannot eat beaf, but because of the strain such a step will put on rural economy already under great strain.
Correction
*SCs and OBCs and Muslims
Personally, I don't have any problem with allowing cow slaughter, provided it comes with a uniform civil code that ensures that every one, even pig-lovers like Nasir Ahmed pay alimony to their ex wife, same rule for everynody scrap the Muslim penal code.
@Nasir,
I wish to offer a perfect solution to your problem, there is a country in the subcontinent that has a Muslim controlled media, Muslim controlled Judiciary, it's called Pakistan, why not move there?
As for the rest of the clowns who are cheering for the OBCs against the upper castes, please know that THERE ARE PLENTY OF UPPER CASTE OBCs,
One such example being the Jats, they are Kshatriyas , but help themselves to reservation under the OBC tag.
And there are also many intermediate castes like the Reddys and Kamas, who are classified as Forward castes, but still have to compete in the Open category, just because they breed just as many children as they can feed.
@Brainless Forward caste Hindus asking for National solidarity
It's too late, folks, it's here, the murderous poison called cultural Bolshevism.
If our extremely fertile friends in the SC and OBC communities feel marginalized by the Forward castes, then it should be our duty to lay out a plan for another partition, like in 1947.
Reserve 85% of the Indian landmass for the SCs and the Dalits and the Muslims and let them build their own egalitarian Utopia, while we build our Republic in the remaining 15%.
About time we put and end to this non sense.
@@@Hindus eat goats, then why not cows? This is superstition, nothing else. With rampant hunger and malnutrition it is stupid see food walking all over and not consumed. Moreover with the availabilty of affordable protein rich diet I am sure it will fetch a couple of medals in Olympic. @Rajesh Phoenix, United States
Mr.Rajesh
Everything is not just "material' and there is something else. And that "something else" is bhavava or your own feelings. A famous surgeon who conduct 60 operations per month cannot cut open his own daughters stomach even if it is an emergency and she were to die if not operated immediately.
Actually reverse is true about protein food. That is , everything is "bhavana" while the material or the matter is the result of your bhavana and not the cause.
About non-vegetarian food Acharya Rajneesh or Osho told a very good story(see youtube). The story was about a king who went for hunting deep inside a forest.
At noon time, he was very hungry and so he ordered an "untouchable"(chandala) to prepare good non-veg food for him who happened to live deep inside the forest. Chandala feared the punishment of the king because he could not get any animal to kill and cook. So, he killed his old mother and cooked a delicacy. Now the king ate the food, and told the chandala that the food was very tasty and none of his cooks in the palace could make it like this. The king told him to cook the same food again next time he comes. But the chandala told the king "Oh! King like anyone else , I have only one mother !" . Then the king realised how dirty it is to eat non-veg food and stopped eating non-veg food ever since.
Osmania University became a hub of separate Telengana activity and hence congress politicians devised this clever ploy. SC/ST youth are becoming sacrificial goats , for this self-defeating game. You will become an outcast by hurting the sentiments and ugly behaviour. I suggest the congress politicians to organize pork festival, rat festival and dragonfly festival whereby dalits eat dragon fly ( in telugu it is called "ushillu" which are trapped at the electric bulbs and then fried on pan, and then eaten like popcorn by SC/st, obc people. I studied in a village school where these students used to come with their pockets full of these worms and eaten by them by fistfuls. )
Now I suggest that "ushillu" should be included in the menu of Osmania University.
If food culture embraces Beef as affront to Brhaminism why not include PORK too so food menu will be Secular Ms.Anuradha Raman. After all Indian Christians too eat Pork in Goa, North East and rest of India-tthat will be Indian SECULARISM do you dare ? Or are you scared of the Middle East lobby. What is food for the goose is food for the gander!
Outlook magazine should not insult Bahrmin beliefs are BRAHIMNS IN INDIAN NEW JEWS OF INDIA????????? Shame o Outlook magazine to communalise and casteist sentiments in food! Kancha Ilaiah is not a Scholar by any means or methodology -what you achieve is DIVIDE AND RULE which enemies of India want ti promote in name of modern thought -UNSCIENTIFIC AND SELF DESTRUCTIVE......
@ Saroja - please dont prevent Nasar from sharing his wonderful words of wisdom and insights with us.
If it were not for him, I would not know the hold that the Brahmins have on the media, bureaucracy, judiciary, legislature, law-enforcement etc.
As a Brahmin, I feel warm and tingly inside when I read how much influence my ilk can exert. Please don't deny me this pleasure.
I had given my views on Meena Kandaswamy's pro-beef rant . It is fashionable to "take up their cause" nowadays in the psuedo-secular media . The only outcome is that they will end up antagonising peace-loving hindus like me . Why the hell do you have to enunciated something which hurts people ?? There are other forms of meat that can be had . And socities build on coming together not going away . I would give up a practise that hurt my fellow men !
The ban on Beef is the law because the constitution allows it as a directive principle and so no one should have a problem .
Also , it is time to bust the myth that BCs are not well represented in administration . They actually operate some of the most powerful lobbies within the IAS and other services usurping good postings etc. Now some governments have even taken up the cudgel to promote them ahead of time . It seems that all of them now want to retire no lesser than Chief Secretaries !!
Finally I may say that all this beef has changed another person (that would be me) from being a "centrist" to being a "rightist" and going further right. And you asked for it .
Great. Mallika Sherwats is the beacon of Indian women's liberty:)
Why don't we follow with pork festivals too (my heart will bleed for the unfortuante pigs just like i am crying for the helpless cows:(. I hoped the beef festivals would have been beef + pork festivals.
>>Much of our problems of malnutrition could be easily addressed if we regularly put beef on our plates,” says Veena Shatrughna, of the National Institute of Nutrition (NIN), Hyderabad. Great great great revelation of the last two centuries. Hats off to Veena Shatrughna. Cannot we confer World Ratna or Nobel to her ? Lets start a movement, Let us call for a "World Bandh" to demand this. Now we know why so many Indians are malnourished excluding the beef-eating Muslims. So we know chicken, fish etc. are infinitely inferriror to beef. Vegetarians must start eating beef, else they won't obtain nourishment and attain nivarana. Lets start another movement for world ratna for Veena.
BTW what is protein content of monkey meat? In many countries monkey meat is eaten and especially monkey brains are very high in demand. I think we start another monkey meat eating festival too. It will help solving the problem of mal-nourishment in Indian population and will be anothet statue of liberty.
People of progressive countries like Switzerland,China, Korea eat dog meat. It is high in protein content. Why don't we follow this noble path in India also. This will certainly solve the problem of malnourishment. One more great thing about it that many cities and towns in India are facing severe stray dog menace. Dog meat revolution will do away with this menace as well. So, why aren't we starting a dog meat festival and a revolution. I am eagerly waiting for another gems from Anuradha Raman and insightful comments from our nourishment-specialist Veena Shatrughna.
And how are we not arranging a rat meat festival. Many people around the world and many in India eat protein rich rat meat.But in castiest India, only the "lower" caste people eat rat meat. Why are we bised towards high caste beef, why rat meat is ignored. Shouldn't a rat meat festival been arranged first ? What is Kancha's point here ? We need justice and so a rat meat festival is the need of the hour. Then we follow up with cockroach and worm eating festivals !!!
NASAR AHMED>>Brahmins have turned their religion for business shamelessly for their own purposes.
This mindless brahmin bashing must stop. I have known at least one serious RSS worker from TN who took to RSS only because of taunts that he faced as a brahmin from other fellow non brahmin students. Unnecessarily temperature is raised everywhere so every idiot who can string some words together, strings them so maximum heat is produced and no light. And this statement is coming from a hindu who does her best to combat anti- muslim feelings in other hindus. Criticise brahmins but in such a way that everyone who just happens to be born in a brahmin family does not have to bear the burden of all wrongs of centuries before. Do you think anyone seriously takes brahmin superiority NOW except when they are cornered emotionally?
>>Brahmins have a strong grip over the media and they will do anything that undermines their authority in any field.
I think Muslims have a stronger grip and that is why media was so eloquent in their support for MF Hussain and so tight-lipped when it comes to Salman Rushdie and Taslima Nasrin.
Nassar, your theory for Aum and OM is "really great". Do some googling and you will know Christoph Luxenberg and his reasearch works. And you will know the facts about origin of the "reveleations". And when you cannot beat the logic, you will say it is propaganda and the donkeys will be out with their swords.
When Mandal commission was eancted there was a big uproar in the media which was a big surprise.Because it was benefitting the majority!Then what were the media representing?Only Brahmins and other upper castes.
Brahmins have a strong grip over the media and they will do anything that undermines their authority in any field.Cow slaughter is targetted simply because majority of the butchers are Muslims all over India! It is well known and an historical proof that Brahmins were meat eaters and had liberal dose of locally brewed liquor.Then picked up many prctices from other religions.Buddhism is one of them.OM is a chant picked from Buddhism which is in fact AUM!
Brahmins have turned their religion for business shamelessly for their own purposes.
Those who oppose beef festivals offer typical pseudo intellectual responses, Their premise is we have to preserve social harmony, social orders, for that some people should give up their rights- for eg. some people shouldn't enjoy beef; girls shouldn't wear jeans/minis; dalits should stay out of sight of upper castes and shouldn't enter temples;
What is always seen is that these pseudo intellectuals always want dalits/OBCs/women/Minorities to give up their rights, but never upper castes/classes..
Definitely it is a way to assert caste identity and it shows how far the country has travelled. Till recently and probably even today it is common to see cookes in university hostels including IITs belonging to brahman or aptly high castes. SC/ST/OBCs were few and lived per terms set by the upper castes. Now things are changing. Diversity is good.
Hindus eat goats, then why not cows? This is superstition, nothing else. With rampant hunger and malnutrition it is stupid see food walking all over and not consumed. Moreover with the availabilty of affordable protein rich diet I am sure it will fetch a couple of medals in Olympic.
Indian constitution is not offering equal protection to OBCs and dalits. Why are their food rights being taken away.. Why is there ban on cow slaughter? Nobody should be forced to eat they dont want to eat & This is clear case of indian constitution forcing OBCs/Dalits to eat other food, when they want to eat beef. Cow may be holy to section of hindu upper castes so whoever considers them holy can stay away from slaughter and eating beef. Nobody is forcing them to do these things. But why stop others..
The nod of the UPA government to the ban on cow slaughter proves that UPA govt is anti-OBC and anti-dalits. The fact that courts are biased towards upper caste and are filled with them is a known fact. Their judgement on the cow ban shouldn't come surprise to anybody.. Indian supreme court needs to people representing all the section of society. Otherwise only protection of upper caste interests(and suppression of OBCs, dalits and minorities) will continue..
Good. It is time for beef and pork festivals all over the country in the academic institutions. Vegetarians can have their own "pure veg" festivals.
Well, as rightly said, why not also start festivals for pork, dog meat, monkey meat, snake meat, tiger meat, lizard meat, etc. etc. After all, these all kinds of meats are consumed by the people somewhere in the world. In phillipine dog meat is a delicacy and when one of the British prime minster expressed her aversion, there was a protest in that country. In any case we Indians believe Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam. If some members of the kutumb (family) like to eat tigers or elephants or peacoks, why should we object???
How inclusive is the menu?
A very twisted question.
Why should public university menus be "inclusive" in terms of beef or pork being served? It should be inclusive in the sense as to enable people belonging to all communities eating there. It should not be offensive at least. Why should the tax payer either pay for or subsidize food which is supposedly used to assert the "views" of certain sections of the community?
up 70 per cent of India’s population. They say this is an important step towards real inclusion in places known to be liberals’ havens.
Fudging figures like a true journalist again! This is exactly why journalists are repeatedly called unprofessional when it comes to handling data of any kind. In no way does it mean 70% of India is looking towards beef as their unifying theme as the article seems to indicate. Just two university campus messes (or one beef festival) are in no way representative of beef eating in India. And seriously, the argument that eating beef will some how give these culinarily "oppressed" populations a seat at the high table is utopian to say the least.
It is high time that some political movement be initiated against caste based reservation and caste based politics . Social inequality shall go away only when we trhink like Indians.
In US , all kinds of races are like black Americans, Muslim Americans , Hispanic Americans and White Americans. No one demands separate priviledges for themselves nor is any given. That's the reason America could fight 9/11 so effectively.
What is wrong is wrong. Why this reservation should be there after 65 years of independence. Let the people rise against it. In the name of resevation few groups are trying to do what is forbidden Hindu religion, that too deliberatly just to tease non reserved category. There has to be a conflict and some Hindu political party ( no hopes from BJP ) should rise to protect the culture and pride who are not reserved. Reserved category people have started behaving as if they are sacred cow and can do what ever they feel like
"Many see the demand for beef as a sign of the consolidation of the backward classes and the most depressed castes, which together make up 70 per cent of India’s popul"
OBCs in north India do not eat beef. Gujjars, Jatts, Yadavs etc are among the most fierce defenders of the cow. Let Mr. Kancha Illaiah try uttering his stupid theories in any OBC dominated village in haryana, UP, Rajasthan etc and it would be interesting to see the response he gets. Madhya Pradesh, which recently banned cow slaughter has an OBC chief minister. The idea that issue of beef eating has the potential to consolidate the OBC population of the country is totally idiotic
In India , we tend to quote politicians' words as of profound wisdom to suit our agenda. Equating beef eating right in public in educational institutions is crass politicking of low class , aimed at raising divisive and hateful feelings among young minds in the name of branding SC or OBC.
Time has come that the our constitution be invoked to take action against such divisive forces bent upon spreading hatred in the name caste & creed. This is patently unconstitutional. All Indians should jointly oppose this unconstitutional and divisive (and thus anti national) forces, whosoever they may be.
Well-written Vasant, and mostly agree. And nice to see some sanity on a topic like this. p.s. A slight point of disagreement would be that i tend to view such actions form the 'this-had-to-happen' perspective, especially because universities are places where students tend to get radicalised and the fact that avenues for assertion are limited. I also believe that such symbolic breaking of barriers also serve a limited purpose -- that of affirmation in a physically non-violent manner. Whether (or not) such actions lead to some lasting good (sensitivity, as you said), i'm not sure. Would it force some to think why some students resorted to a beef festival? Might, or not.
We are always behind the developed world. Following the outbreak of mad cow disease and swine flu many years back there has been re-thinking in US and Europe on the consumption of red meat particularly beef and pork and greater number of people are turning vegetarian and taking white meats (fish, chicken etc). If some Dalits and OBC want to eat these to show their identity( surely all dalits and OBCs would not want to eat) let them eat privately. Why to disturb campus peace by insisting on eating beef with non-beef eaters.By the way, many vegetarians in India are doing much better in almost every field be it science, technology,business.
Certain things are done to register one’s presence. Others are done to improve the lot of the people in general or that of a certain section. And some steps are taken to provoke others and thus help establish the identity of one’s own group. We cannot dictate to anyone as to which method to use and when. But we can definitely say what we would prefer to do and let others decide what would be in their interest and that of the larger community. I think that insisting on something at a certain place where it would cause irritation would not help me gain friends or convince those who think differently. I am a vegetarian and do not approve of killing to eat. But I do not object to those who do want to eat meat. When I visited South Korea I survived on bread etc for a week. One has to adjust and not impose his/her wishes on others. There are of course certain things on which I would not compromise. If somebody discriminated against another because of his/her caste I would object. Admissions, evaluation, or unfair treatment at the workplace are things to rightly protest about. But if I were to insist on others having to respect my food habits even if it offends their beliefs I would not gain anything but lose a few friends who would otherwise have stood by me in most matters. I would disrespect their sensibilities only if I wanted to make a political point and not a moral or ethical one. And then the political point should be a truly significant one. If I ate meat I would not provoke a Muslim by eating pork in his presence or in the vessels which he intended to use. It is a matter for caring for others sensibilities. I may add that my Muslim friends do arrange some vegetarian food for me when they invite me over. Those who arranged the beef festival may have real reasons for being angry with the upper castes. But will eating beef in this way get rid of those reasons? It may start a cycle of events where those who are extremists in their views take over and moderates are pushed into the background. At the risk of having some attack me for saying what I have said I am saying it because I believe in dialogue and not confrontation. Let us not reduce the level of our sincerity in seeking a resolution to age old problems. I have great confidence that a large majority of us want to understand and live peacefully together and accept the need to change also. The presence of a few diehards does not matter in the long run. But they can do quite a bit of harm in the short one.
There must be a gentler, more sensitive way to assert one's identity.