Where were you guys when Salman Rushdie novel was banned. That was the time to stop. And also, until we get it in our head that Freedom of Speech and Expression is absolute .... no if, then and elses ... no buts, this will keep happening. We have become Banisthan ... someone always doesn't like something done/said by someone else. The automatic reaction in us is Ban .... depending on our the cirumstances and the weight of our reaction we get Bans easily .... if nothing else at least in a State or a Library or Bookshops or Movie theatres. They work because don't have even basic policing working ... no rule of law and no faith to depend on it if needed. We also have a stupid law to protect ... "hurting the sentiments of some group or the other".

The colonialists thought of us a children, underdeveloped people (culture) and possibly adoloscents at best while they were adults and hence had to rule us. The state post freedom also still assumes the same. And so we have made it a self-fullfilling prophecy - we behave like children - needing parental authority and big brother to protect us from the evil out there. Everyone hurts easily and everyone hurts someone else very easily.

Re 24/D-84:

 " ... but you seem to have a knack picking on words. " -

I have focused on the essence of the matter to dispel imprecise logic.

"If thats the case then Darul Uloom must be asked to shut up." -

I am happy to keep this mob (and others on its bandwagon, eg. our resident mullah) yelling. That way anybody with basic education will find out their fundamental limitations in modern day society.

"Ramanujan's essay case went to the SC and their appointed committee...." 

What were the terms of reference set by SC on their appointed committee ?  I have not seen that in the media. Hence it will be misleading just to quote that to raise the suspicion as if something dubious was done in that context.

As an aside, let me point out that in my understanding of the functioning of this world, not everything goes by "democratic norms".  For example in the academic world, no thesis is ever passed in the faculty seatings by raising hands and counting "yes" and "no" votes !  Such democratic mechanism is replaced by peer review. One of the responsibilities of the academic board is to oversee such measures are applied in their determination of things.

>>> 23/D-71

Ok Pinaki da .. I stand corrected, but you seem to have a knack picking on words. What I meant simply that every one have their freedom of speech in democratic India. I didnt  know that this does not apply to organizations. If thats the case then Darul Uloom must be asked to shut up.

Ramanujan's essay case went to the SC and their appointed committee. If the academic council at DU (which is not western) can overule both of them then I rest my case ...

"Since Durul Uloom is based in India which allows full freedom of speech and expression, they are entitled to raise their objections to any academic research that ...." -  22/D-52

I am not so sure how the assertion "ENTITLED" is applicable, or even valid, in this context that the Indian Republic is a democratic nation.

Democracy does entitle an INDIVIDUAL CITIZEN to his freedom of speech and expression, but that does not translate to an ORGANISATION or some BODY such as a club. Any such body or organisation must operate under the rules and regulations stipulated the State. They could be even banned if the authorities determine so.

To my understanding Durul Uloom is a RELIGIOUS BODY or seminary and in this matter is infringing on the academic freedom in the area of research which they are definitely NOT ENTITLED to being an organisation of some sort inspite of the fact that the Indian State is a parliamentary democracy.

"A case in point is Ramanujan's essay "Three Hundred Ramayanas" controversy at DU last year ... where the VC and the Academic Council over ruled the opinion of the history department, as well as the expert committee appointed by SC and removed the essay from the list of recommended readings." -

This is a false analogy and deceives the fundamental fact that in any University of the (Western) Democracy the Academic Council is the final arbitrator in all matter that concerns course structure, examination and the curriculum  (i.e. courses to be taught) etc.  They can overrule any department under their academic structure whatever be the issue. There is no context of academic freedom in this regard.  After all the University has to stand up for its academic activity  and be accountable to the State and the academic council holds responsibility for that.

Since Durul Uloom is based in India which allows full freedom of speech and expression, they are entitled to raise their objections to any academic research that according to them "glorifies" Salman Rushdie's work, BUT they have no right to enforce their "fatwas" with coveted threats of violence. I am sure the educated and liberal minded Muslims as the above list confirms would oppose any such antics which are essentially intimidatory in nature, or in its context. Its motive is double-edged, first is Uloom's self-serving egocentricity to arouse the muslim masses and rally behind them, and, secondly then, to create a sense of alienation among their followers thus damning the idea of a secular India.

If the powers that be give in to such crudely framed gullible demands and force the academia to conduct researches only in their chosen subjects, then this is coercion which is clearly motivated by the vote bank politics. Larger question, however, still remains unanswered ... should the relgious seminaries or power groups be allowed to choke and gag our democratic institutions ?

A case in point is Ramanujan's essay "Three Hundred Ramayanas" controversy at DU last year ... where the VC and the Academic Council over ruled the opinion of the history department, as well as the expert committee appointed by SC and removed the essay from the list of recommended readings.

>> I support their right to raise the issue

While reasonable, such vocal support goes curiously missing if Hindu organizations raise any issues. In such cases, criticism, insults and unsolicited advise are the only things offered by the jehadis.

[Remember that all rights carry responsiblities also.]

And that charity begins at home.

Pinaki Ray,

>>>> "I support their right to raise the issue"
>> If they raise these types of issues, they just prove in the eyes of all right thinking people of the world what sort of retrogade people they are.

True! But freedom of speech is not only for the progressive people. Deoband, like any other group, has the right to express its regressive views, even if it is unwise to do so. It is equally unwise to let their words succeed.

The area of concern is much bigger, and we all seem to be missing it.

Is a lousy, pointless topic like "Use of magic and realism in the major novels....." all that one needs to get a doctoral degree? I would presume most of them take up jobs either with the media or the government. No wonder, both are in such rotten state.

Remember that all rights carry responsiblities also

Sir not for some .

 "I support their right to raise the issue" - Faruki 3/D-1

If they raise these types of issues, they just prove in the eyes of all right thinking people of the world what sort of retrogade people they are. And they are the preachers of Islam, aren't they? 

And you go berserk to applaud the Deobandis as righteous people excercising their constitutional rights !

Remember that all rights carry responsiblities also.

Nothing is going to happen at all. The UPA-2 will go to any extent to appease the Muslims. Akhilesh Yadav, the new blood Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh will do the same. The country's establishment is sucumbing to fanatics whether it is the Hindutva brand in Gujarat and MP, the Islamic ilks in UP, Kerala and whole India, the Christians one in Goa, NE and Kerala. The space left for free thinkers is getting curtailed everyday. They are slowly killing the soul of India.

As usual, a spineless response from the people who compromise their stand under threat. Signature campaign are not the only solution to threats from bodies like Deoband. Take them head on and if need be invoke the might of the state if they resort to voilence.

Looks like India is turning into a quasi islamic state where fundamentalist from the community are having a ball of a time. Rushdie or Hussain cannot be blacked out on mere demands from certain people.

Post#10

Anwar bhai,

English is not my mother tongue and hence I may not comprehend completely. By the way, I could understand post #11; since it is loud and clear. I am a bit "slow" you see.

Well those 101 Teachers of Jamia who appear no where on OutLook what are your views on this issue ??

 this is a disgrace. darul uloom deoband is a blot on muslim ummah as well as humanity. no wonder the ummah wallows in medieval ignorance. the ulema of darul uloom deoband are fools. they can go on doing all kind of political jugglery to keep themselves entrenched as a power bloc but, they should remember, 200 years ago there was no deoband and 200 years later there won't be any.

i, as a muslim and fellow academic, condemn darul uloom deoband categorically and unequivocally for their inhuman, disgraceful, shameless and foolish act of scaring an academic into submission.

Pankaj,

>> Always sitting on fence in "such" matters.

Not if you understand English.

Hello there,

If the lady has the right under the constituition to try her fellow ship or whatever she wanted to do, at the same time the same constituition has given me equal rights to voice my displeasure and concern over the same issue. Why choose such a person to carry out her research? So why are these people making noises?

Situation in Deoband is far more serious than media reports. They are so heavily funded by rich islamic countries, they have built building as ostentatious as Taj Mahal itself. No wonder they can buy any political party and force people to stop "free" research.

Guns, automatic rifles can be bought in Deoband any day. It is almost like a small Pakistan overthere, and have a national presence in political decisions and not to mention great fatwas. Fankly they should not have any right to object to any research at least in India. It should be a banned institution already! 

This nasty and shameful episode shows  how far  Darul Uloom Deoband-- the leftover filthy Medieval  mindsets-- can go in enforcing  their Fascist dicta even in the academia. They have absolutely no business to interfere in a researcher's intellectual pursuit. Yet. given the Demographic Givens in UP where Muslims constitute as much as 19 % of population, they dare to do that  due to arrogance borne out of sheer numbers and their political clout under the new political  dispensation. This is highly condemnable. Are we living in India or Saudi Arabia ? 

And look at a different scenario. A twenty year -old can dictate terms to the Bombay University on matters related to the prescribed  texts for graduate  students . Since he happens to be a Dear Grandson of  a notoriously influential politician with his Fascist ideology--both in theory and practice--, the University tamely bows down its head to this juvenile's demand for removal of the tex ! To what pathetic depths  India has fallen to !!

As a fellow-academic,  I fully share the anger and anguish of this group of signatories. It is time such Medieval mind-sets and the Neo-Fascists are cut down to size and shown their place in society.  

Post #3 Anwar Bhai,

Humesha do kashtiyon par sawaar...Always sitting on fence in "such" matters!

Hear hear!

Deoband should write a fatwa ordering itself to stay out of political and cultural controversies.  What does secular academic inquiry have to do with Deoband?  Nothering. Morons.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-04-28/lucknow/31451506_1_major-novels-ugc-salman-rushdie

 Meerut University has not asked her to change her research subject. She has requested the university to change it as she wants to avoid any controversy. 

While I vehemently disagree with Deoband's denunciation of the Rushdie research proposal, I support their right to raise the issue. And while I support Meerut University's right to conduct such research, I condemn their caving in and cancelling the project.

Must say that I'm pleasantly surprised to read this. Some signatures from Anhad and a couple even from JNU (though AMU and Jamia are missing).

Moreover, I would have typically expected such appeals to be "balanced" by citing some instances of "Hindutva" muzzling of FOE (say talking about Ramanujan's essay). The signatories steered clear of that too.

Hopefully, this shall not be a one-off. They shall continue to raise this and other similar issues with the frequency and passion they usually reserve for "Hindutva censorship".

This is not acceptable. Meerut univeristy should re-instate the scholarship and scholar should be allowed to conduct her research in fear free atmosphere.

This is not acceptable. Meerut univeristy should re-instate the scholarship and scholar should be allowed to conduct her research in fear free atmosphere.

Must say that I'm pleasantly surprised to read this. Some signatures from Anhad and a couple even from JNU (though AMU and Jamia are missing).

Moreover, I would have typically expected such appeals to be "balanced" by citing some instances of "Hindutva" muzzling of FOE (say talking about Ramanujan's essay). The signatories steered clear of that too.

Hopefully, this shall not be a one-off. They shall continue to raise this and other similar issues with the frequency and passion they usually reserve for "Hindutva censorship".

While I vehemently disagree with Deoband's denunciation of the Rushdie research proposal, I support their right to raise the issue. And while I support Meerut University's right to conduct such research, I condemn their caving in and cancelling the project.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-04-28/lucknow/31451506_1_major-novels-ugc-salman-rushdie

 Meerut University has not asked her to change her research subject. She has requested the university to change it as she wants to avoid any controversy. 

Hear hear!

Deoband should write a fatwa ordering itself to stay out of political and cultural controversies.  What does secular academic inquiry have to do with Deoband?  Nothering. Morons.

Post #3 Anwar Bhai,

Humesha do kashtiyon par sawaar...Always sitting on fence in "such" matters!

This nasty and shameful episode shows  how far  Darul Uloom Deoband-- the leftover filthy Medieval  mindsets-- can go in enforcing  their Fascist dicta even in the academia. They have absolutely no business to interfere in a researcher's intellectual pursuit. Yet. given the Demographic Givens in UP where Muslims constitute as much as 19 % of population, they dare to do that  due to arrogance borne out of sheer numbers and their political clout under the new political  dispensation. This is highly condemnable. Are we living in India or Saudi Arabia ? 

And look at a different scenario. A twenty year -old can dictate terms to the Bombay University on matters related to the prescribed  texts for graduate  students . Since he happens to be a Dear Grandson of  a notoriously influential politician with his Fascist ideology--both in theory and practice--, the University tamely bows down its head to this juvenile's demand for removal of the tex ! To what pathetic depths  India has fallen to !!

As a fellow-academic,  I fully share the anger and anguish of this group of signatories. It is time such Medieval mind-sets and the Neo-Fascists are cut down to size and shown their place in society.  

Situation in Deoband is far more serious than media reports. They are so heavily funded by rich islamic countries, they have built building as ostentatious as Taj Mahal itself. No wonder they can buy any political party and force people to stop "free" research.

Guns, automatic rifles can be bought in Deoband any day. It is almost like a small Pakistan overthere, and have a national presence in political decisions and not to mention great fatwas. Fankly they should not have any right to object to any research at least in India. It should be a banned institution already! 

Hello there,

If the lady has the right under the constituition to try her fellow ship or whatever she wanted to do, at the same time the same constituition has given me equal rights to voice my displeasure and concern over the same issue. Why choose such a person to carry out her research? So why are these people making noises?

Pankaj,

>> Always sitting on fence in "such" matters.

Not if you understand English.

 this is a disgrace. darul uloom deoband is a blot on muslim ummah as well as humanity. no wonder the ummah wallows in medieval ignorance. the ulema of darul uloom deoband are fools. they can go on doing all kind of political jugglery to keep themselves entrenched as a power bloc but, they should remember, 200 years ago there was no deoband and 200 years later there won't be any.

i, as a muslim and fellow academic, condemn darul uloom deoband categorically and unequivocally for their inhuman, disgraceful, shameless and foolish act of scaring an academic into submission.

Well those 101 Teachers of Jamia who appear no where on OutLook what are your views on this issue ??

Post#10

Anwar bhai,

English is not my mother tongue and hence I may not comprehend completely. By the way, I could understand post #11; since it is loud and clear. I am a bit "slow" you see.

As usual, a spineless response from the people who compromise their stand under threat. Signature campaign are not the only solution to threats from bodies like Deoband. Take them head on and if need be invoke the might of the state if they resort to voilence.

Looks like India is turning into a quasi islamic state where fundamentalist from the community are having a ball of a time. Rushdie or Hussain cannot be blacked out on mere demands from certain people.

Nothing is going to happen at all. The UPA-2 will go to any extent to appease the Muslims. Akhilesh Yadav, the new blood Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh will do the same. The country's establishment is sucumbing to fanatics whether it is the Hindutva brand in Gujarat and MP, the Islamic ilks in UP, Kerala and whole India, the Christians one in Goa, NE and Kerala. The space left for free thinkers is getting curtailed everyday. They are slowly killing the soul of India.

 "I support their right to raise the issue" - Faruki 3/D-1

If they raise these types of issues, they just prove in the eyes of all right thinking people of the world what sort of retrogade people they are. And they are the preachers of Islam, aren't they? 

And you go berserk to applaud the Deobandis as righteous people excercising their constitutional rights !

Remember that all rights carry responsiblities also.

Remember that all rights carry responsiblities also

Sir not for some .

The area of concern is much bigger, and we all seem to be missing it.

Is a lousy, pointless topic like "Use of magic and realism in the major novels....." all that one needs to get a doctoral degree? I would presume most of them take up jobs either with the media or the government. No wonder, both are in such rotten state.

Pinaki Ray,

>>>> "I support their right to raise the issue"
>> If they raise these types of issues, they just prove in the eyes of all right thinking people of the world what sort of retrogade people they are.

True! But freedom of speech is not only for the progressive people. Deoband, like any other group, has the right to express its regressive views, even if it is unwise to do so. It is equally unwise to let their words succeed.

[Remember that all rights carry responsiblities also.]

And that charity begins at home.

>> I support their right to raise the issue

While reasonable, such vocal support goes curiously missing if Hindu organizations raise any issues. In such cases, criticism, insults and unsolicited advise are the only things offered by the jehadis.

Since Durul Uloom is based in India which allows full freedom of speech and expression, they are entitled to raise their objections to any academic research that according to them "glorifies" Salman Rushdie's work, BUT they have no right to enforce their "fatwas" with coveted threats of violence. I am sure the educated and liberal minded Muslims as the above list confirms would oppose any such antics which are essentially intimidatory in nature, or in its context. Its motive is double-edged, first is Uloom's self-serving egocentricity to arouse the muslim masses and rally behind them, and, secondly then, to create a sense of alienation among their followers thus damning the idea of a secular India.

If the powers that be give in to such crudely framed gullible demands and force the academia to conduct researches only in their chosen subjects, then this is coercion which is clearly motivated by the vote bank politics. Larger question, however, still remains unanswered ... should the relgious seminaries or power groups be allowed to choke and gag our democratic institutions ?

A case in point is Ramanujan's essay "Three Hundred Ramayanas" controversy at DU last year ... where the VC and the Academic Council over ruled the opinion of the history department, as well as the expert committee appointed by SC and removed the essay from the list of recommended readings.

"Since Durul Uloom is based in India which allows full freedom of speech and expression, they are entitled to raise their objections to any academic research that ...." -  22/D-52

I am not so sure how the assertion "ENTITLED" is applicable, or even valid, in this context that the Indian Republic is a democratic nation.

Democracy does entitle an INDIVIDUAL CITIZEN to his freedom of speech and expression, but that does not translate to an ORGANISATION or some BODY such as a club. Any such body or organisation must operate under the rules and regulations stipulated the State. They could be even banned if the authorities determine so.

To my understanding Durul Uloom is a RELIGIOUS BODY or seminary and in this matter is infringing on the academic freedom in the area of research which they are definitely NOT ENTITLED to being an organisation of some sort inspite of the fact that the Indian State is a parliamentary democracy.

"A case in point is Ramanujan's essay "Three Hundred Ramayanas" controversy at DU last year ... where the VC and the Academic Council over ruled the opinion of the history department, as well as the expert committee appointed by SC and removed the essay from the list of recommended readings." -

This is a false analogy and deceives the fundamental fact that in any University of the (Western) Democracy the Academic Council is the final arbitrator in all matter that concerns course structure, examination and the curriculum  (i.e. courses to be taught) etc.  They can overrule any department under their academic structure whatever be the issue. There is no context of academic freedom in this regard.  After all the University has to stand up for its academic activity  and be accountable to the State and the academic council holds responsibility for that.

>>> 23/D-71

Ok Pinaki da .. I stand corrected, but you seem to have a knack picking on words. What I meant simply that every one have their freedom of speech in democratic India. I didnt  know that this does not apply to organizations. If thats the case then Darul Uloom must be asked to shut up.

Ramanujan's essay case went to the SC and their appointed committee. If the academic council at DU (which is not western) can overule both of them then I rest my case ...

Re 24/D-84:

 " ... but you seem to have a knack picking on words. " -

I have focused on the essence of the matter to dispel imprecise logic.

"If thats the case then Darul Uloom must be asked to shut up." -

I am happy to keep this mob (and others on its bandwagon, eg. our resident mullah) yelling. That way anybody with basic education will find out their fundamental limitations in modern day society.

"Ramanujan's essay case went to the SC and their appointed committee...." 

What were the terms of reference set by SC on their appointed committee ?  I have not seen that in the media. Hence it will be misleading just to quote that to raise the suspicion as if something dubious was done in that context.

As an aside, let me point out that in my understanding of the functioning of this world, not everything goes by "democratic norms".  For example in the academic world, no thesis is ever passed in the faculty seatings by raising hands and counting "yes" and "no" votes !  Such democratic mechanism is replaced by peer review. One of the responsibilities of the academic board is to oversee such measures are applied in their determination of things.

Where were you guys when Salman Rushdie novel was banned. That was the time to stop. And also, until we get it in our head that Freedom of Speech and Expression is absolute .... no if, then and elses ... no buts, this will keep happening. We have become Banisthan ... someone always doesn't like something done/said by someone else. The automatic reaction in us is Ban .... depending on our the cirumstances and the weight of our reaction we get Bans easily .... if nothing else at least in a State or a Library or Bookshops or Movie theatres. They work because don't have even basic policing working ... no rule of law and no faith to depend on it if needed. We also have a stupid law to protect ... "hurting the sentiments of some group or the other".

The colonialists thought of us a children, underdeveloped people (culture) and possibly adoloscents at best while they were adults and hence had to rule us. The state post freedom also still assumes the same. And so we have made it a self-fullfilling prophecy - we behave like children - needing parental authority and big brother to protect us from the evil out there. Everyone hurts easily and everyone hurts someone else very easily.