Aakar’s arguments (The Ghost’s in the Details, Ma’am, Apr 30) are amusing and naive. He seems to have no understanding of tribal realities. If they accepted the church, it is because it came with a message of life and hope; they refuse to accept mining barons because they bring bad development and death.
Francis Minj, Ranchi
Give up, Aakar. There’s no way anyone can reform Ms Roy.
Lakshmanan J., Coimbatore
If we are nowhere despite adopting the British model of governance for more than 60 years, it’s because benefits don’t reach the people who need them most. No wonder huge swathes of territory are controlled by Maoists.
Ramesh Parida, Delhi
Patel gets it right when he asks, “Why is the tribal unrepresented in the body that does battle for him? Because the tribal is uninterested in the ideology of extremist Marxism.” That should educate the likes of Roy.
Patel’s article, full of facts and figures, is an interesting, thought-provoking counterpoint to Ms Roy’s ‘India is evil and the only good in India are the Maoists and Kashmiris’ view.
Prashant M., Bangalore
Patel’s piece is a hurried and ill-prepared apology for those Roy attacked in her article. He touches on the issues tangentially but only to distract readers from the real problems.
Jiwan Kshetry, Kathmandu
I’ll any day prefer Ms Roy. She writes rubbish but is eloquent; this guy writes rubbish and is not even eloquent.
I stopped reading the goddess long ago; and I won’t read anything countering her as well.
Jaleel Khan, Lucknow
What needs to be debated is what kind of capitalism India needs, coz for all its faults, there’s no viable alternative.
Patel writes too simplistically, I’m afraid. Learn a bit more about aid and this sin-washing term ‘charity’ and then make your expert comments.
Soumya S., Germany
I think Aakar Patel was just superb (The Ghost’s in the Details..., Apr 30). This is probably the first time someone’s had the gumption and the intellect to forcefully counter Arundhati Roy using facts and figures from officially available statistics. Arundhati’s forte lies in maligning the state, accusing it of just every conceivable crime—from the lack of a holistic developmental strategy to shielding the rich and the mighty, of which she is very much a part. She is typical of the drawing room parasites who have nothing better to do than to dig up a cause, magnify it to the level of ‘national consciousness’ and then strut back and forth before the media and the glitterati who lap up everything. Reminds me of a Bollywood actress of yesteryear, who positioned herself as a champion of free government housing for the homeless in Mumbai even as she herself is a member of the privileged set and stays in a 4,000 sq ft bungalow in Mumbai.
Rosen John, Mumbai
Who is this Aakar Patel? He begins his piece with a quote from Nirad C. Chaudhuri, who by his own confession was more British than Indian. And so what if the Jindals, Ambanis, Tatas, Mittals, Ruias et al are not involved in mining? Once others do the dirty job, they jump into the fray and wipe out all the others. This is what happened with mobile telephony in India. As for Patel’s fascination with the Bill and Melinda Gates charity, they apparently gave a $100 million grant to the International aids Vaccine Institute a year ago. After Gates left India, the same institute was allowed human trials of their under-research vaccine in India! Patel is also surprised that caste Hindus are Maoist central committee members. A lackey of the corporate lobby will see only caste and religion in a movement that is above their convoluted intelligence. Joseph Stalin was the son of a landlord and Lord Eden the son of a cobbler. When they met, Stalin remarked they had both betrayed their class. Has Mr Patel ever thought of declassing himself?
Mahasweta Mitra, on e-mail
The difference between Ms Roy and Mr Patel’s write-ups is of empathy; the former writes with empathy, the latter lacks it completely.
Vaeyuru Tholibangan, on e-mail
Aakar Patel's arguments sound amusing, if not silly. He has flawed arguments and shows his lack in understanding Indian society and tribal society in particular. Reality bites. Tribal situation is worsening day by day because of outside influence; the tribals are facing a clash of worldviews. Recent alien influences have been catastrophic. Patel should understand why the tribals accepted the Presbyterian church but refuse to accept the steel and mining barons. The church came with a message of life, the barons come with a message of development, which indirectly means death. The church came and consolidated the community, the state and mining and other companies come to destabilize the community. If Patel fails to consider this argument then he should vouch for all the tribal communities to accept Christianity so that they will, in his own words, they will have 90 per cent literacy. If, not the author must seriously analyze and distinguish the powers that build from the powers that upset the community.
The article was going well... and then I read the second last paragraph. Oh well. :-|
The author should have left it at dentifying the problem ... offering a solution that vague ruins it.
Please give it up. There is no way any one can educateher as she knows everything about anything. She courted controversy on Kashmir. Recent news leak from Pak and U.S. officials public comments confirm the well known fact that Pak Military is responsible for the chaos in Kashmir. Would that change her Kashmir views. No - because in India we have got a powerful secular machinery run by missionaries, minorities, criminal politiicians and of course the left ever willing to see India break so they can spread their tentacles more effectively as it has happened in Eastern parts of our nation.
Ramesh Parida puts his analysis of the problem as well as the potential solution diligently. Indeed a large no. of non-extremists on either side of political spectrum share that view. That is because the viewpoint comes from real observations at the lives of people rather than from any theorization. Yet the micro-perspective of the problems and the solution devised in accordance to it is micro after all (though of course the observation about the British colonial legacy is the macro one); like observing individual trees in the forest. Not underestimating the significance of this perspective, I would like to stress the significance of the macro-perspective of the issue.
The solutions Parida proposes like the round-table conference and state's real and coordinated approach to communities and families are already in place in theory. And they are bound to be amiss in practice because it is not some written piece of constitution or legislation that really makes the state deliver to its citizen. Nor is the state a neutral and just mechanism to serve the people. The rulers are rather a group of people who rule so that their personal, family, factional or party interests can be promoted with ease and in perpetuity. Interest groups whose interests are aligned with those of the rulers benefit in the process and vice varsa. Since everything can be bought with wealth in the current system, promoting interest mostly means earning money; and in the process it is natural that the population, especially those at the margins get increasingly pauperized.
The central problem of the system is that there are no checks and balances to this tendency of mass pauperization resulting from legal and illegal swindles in which the rulers indulge; not by exception or accident but by the very inherent nature of the system. Moreover the cacophony of our time, particularly in India, is that the rulers and their associates with aligned interests should not be even criticized; let alone forcing them to be checked and balanced. Here it is interesting to observe the way in which communism, arising from efforts of liberated workers and peasants, degenerated into one-party and one-person authoritarianism eventually making way for its collapse. Over past century, Corporate Capitalism is increasingly showing the same streak with ridiculous intolerance to alternative views as they project the monolithic picture of free-market utopia in what goes in the name of mainstream media.
While micro-measures may be useful here and there now and then, it is hard to fathom they will be enough to address the roots of the problem for long enough and widely enough. The real solutions can be expected once the illusion of seeing free markets as the 'cure of all ills' is shattered.
Even after adopting the British model of governance for the last 65 years, we are still nowhere, leave alone providing for the basic needs of the vast rural populace that includes tribals and dalits in large numbers. The British may have given us some very good institutions, but they never asked us to continue with their model of colonial governance. It's time people go and find out how the Americans, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Korean and the Europeans have their models of governance and find one which suits us the best. When I say us, I mean both the chattering middle class and the underprivileged class. The basic delivery mechanism does not work. That's why our local officials don't even reach the remote villages, with huge swathes of area falling under the control of Maoists in central and eastern India, and other militant groups in the far notheast who look after the local populace. On the use of natural resources, let there be a roundtable conference, where you invite all, including the Maoists, the tribals and other stakeholders and chalk out a plan as to how much to exploit and how much to leave for our future generations, without harming, of course, the lives of tribals who have been living there for centuries. But first and foremost, we should completely revamp our model of governance, which includes a rethink on the all India services, the type of social democracy that we have, and find out the model which suits us best. Instead of different departments and ministries, why can't we have a large number of small groups consisting of development officials, doctors and educators who can go to far-flung areas, meet each and every family and/or community, assess their needs and deliver accordingly. But this can happen only if we overhaul our old and rickety British model of governance. When we find ex-bureaucrats like B D Sharma, who did some excellent work in Bastar, revered by Maoists, and the abducted bureaucrat Alex Paul Menon reading Che Guevara, it surely give us an inkling of what the bureaucrats themselves think about the burgeoning and unproductive bureacracy that is manning the Centre and the states.
Anjaneyulu's allegations against me contribute little to the debate and are thus inconsequential. He defends the prevalent system in India and he has the right to do so. He is also right in pionting that the critics of capitalism have contributed little constructive towards solving the problems in India and elsewhere. It is high time they did so and I am quite hopeful that will be possible now that the excesses of capitalism are alienating more people and intellectuals and demise of Soviet model has given an important historic lesson. Yet even many in the right admit that the way the Indian democracy and economy is managed is far from perfect. Here comes the need for all this debate and it is good to have healthy arguments.
First if India's increasing inequality is exposed and deplored thereby revealing the loopholes in the system, it need not be equated with advancing the interests of China. Indeed China is also more or less in same position as India in the issue (both increasing corruption and inequality) and they too need to address it. Then; it is obvious that India's poverty is not America's problem yet when it comes to formulating policies for India, if the elites educated in the west (or educated with western 'policies' ) choose to promote the interest of those at the top of the prosperity ladder at the cost of those at the bottom, that adds to the existing problem. US policy to subsidize cotton can literally kill farmers in India after forcing them into bankruptcy. Their policy to let one MNC to monopolize a life-saving drug can also kill millions; albeit indirectly.
And if the corporations are to be heaped with praise and shielded from any kind of criticism, that is hardly possible in this era. Also, charity is most often the mask to obfuscate the far ugly aspects of their legacy. Given that we have the freedom to do so, why not to engage in a meaningful debate? Does anyone think that those in the right are speaking the eternal and absolute truth and their critics are spouting nonsense?
Nonsense need not be even replied or acknowledged as that contributes nothing meaningful in the debate. If it does, I hardly think it is nonsense; rather it is a different viewpoint. And I am pleased to have a different viewpoint from that of many in the debate.
Jiwan Kshetry from Kathmandu, must be one of those "Maoist" Prachanda sycophants. The gnani despite admitting that no one knows if it was "arm-twisting or transaction" has still concluded it was arm-twisting. As US US Sec. of State it is Hillary Clinton's duty to push the business interests of her nation. Nothing wrong there. Now if only the South African Ambassador were to push the interests of Ubuntu...But wait. Ubuntu is available for free on the internet and can be downloaded and insralled on your PC or via free DVD ordered from the publishers or anyone else who can hel you. You can install Ubuntu on your PC or Mac or buy a pre-installed laptop from Dell. Bill Gates and Microsoft do compete with Ubuntu and it is but natural they will do everything to push their interests. There's nothing strange about this. But coming as you do from Nepal whose "peoples' leaders have sold themselves for a song to the Chinese "Communists" and advance that nation's interests while they live in luxury, I don't expect Kshetry to understand what it means to stand up for your country's interersts. It's not America's problems that a large number of people in India live on very little. It is India's problem, more specifically the fault of endless years of secular socialist/communism peddled by hypocrites like Arundhati. The contribution of these charlatans to India's progress is zero and their capability to come up with solutions is again zero. When people like Bill Gates or the TATA trusts run successful charities the likes of Arundhati choke and sputter because the oxygen that fuels their outrage and sanctoimony is snuffed out. The TATA group is an outstanding corporate citizen and has been a pioneer in industry, welfare, scientific research and education for over a century. Hucksters should read up before they spout nonsense.
"Kathmandu'ans... levelling laughable charges against Bill Gates" by Anjaneyulu from Chennai. This reminds me of the trip of US secretary of state Hillary Clinton to Chennai about a year or so back when newly-sworn CM Jayalalithaa was cajoled (none knows if it was arm-twisting or transaction) to go forward with tender terms that would make only Microsoft eligible to supply PCs to be distrubuted for free by the govt. Better and less costly alternatives were abandoned in favor of Gates' giant. If it were not for such opaque and corrupt transactions between corporate giants, US and the rulers in the developing countries; ones like Microsoft would never be in a position that they are now in. Yet Mr. Anjaneyulu finds it laughable even to mildly criticize Gates (as if he is god) and that shows either the denial in which many like him live in India or the fact that he has been trimmed by corporate media to give such knee-jerk reactions to serious issues. That is pathetic and pitiable rather than laughable; one can not laugh at these facts especially when people at India with majority living at less than $0.5 a day advocate policies of westerners whose cows get a subsidy of more than $2 a day.
Indian capitalism unfortunately is a particularly virulent and unpleasant strain, fuelled as it is by an unbridled lust for money and power which eclipses that of the western countries and is suffused with corruption and inhumanity.
Indian capitalism unfortunately is a particularly virulent and unpleasant strain, fuelled as it is by an unbridled lust for money and power which eclipses that of the western countries and is suffused with corruption and inhumanity.
it seems India is still suffused with colonial types, and distaste for the proverbial Indian businessman with his multiple gods. Indian capitalism is more virulent? Really. Did Indian businessmen trade in slaves or opium like the Arabs or Europeans. Saudi Arabia only abolished slavery in 1962. Well the Arabs have got oil and the Europeans are top dog but they will be back to shake down the Hindu bania :lol:
Capitalism in India still doesn't function well becasue the ruling IAS types are still ICS and they don't understand it. But they are learning. Capitalism in the West ironically is become more crony and corrupt. Its like they are unlearning it.
Roy is the classic type longing for the Brits to come back. She beleives that Indians have it got it lucky so far and its only matter of time. What she writes is like colonial propaganda from the 1930s. .
I don't think there is anyone in the world who would prefer to live a life of war rather than a life of peace. There is no smoke without fire, and whoever does fight, whether it is the Taliban, the Israelis, the IRA, the Palestinians or indeed the Maoists, it is not just for the hell of it, there is always a reason, particularly if they are taking on a well-armed state security apparatus who they have no chance of defeating. Indian capitalism unfortunately is a particularly virulent and unpleasant strain, fuelled as it is by an unbridled lust for money and power which eclipses that of the western countries and is suffused with corruption and inhumanity. Add to this the burgeoning aspirations of a nouveau riche middle class obsessed with status and hungry for wealth and material advancement, and a profoundly undemocratic society where lesser people like tribals are regarded as virtually subhuman, and the stage is set for conflict. Arundhati Roy gets my vote over Aakar Patel.
Suzie Roy makes for delightful reading. Her every article makes for a fun game of "fool or knave". She is given to outright lies, flawed logic, stupid fantasy, and a stubborn disregard for facts. Refuting Suzie is as much fun as shooting fish in a barrell. You get tired after some time. Aakar has done a good job taking apart her latest screed. Sadly Suzie's flunkies and cronies are if anything even less given to logic or evidence. So we find assorted Kolkatans and Kathmandu'ans quoting a clueless Jean Dreze and levelling laughable charges against Bill Gates. Impressive work by Aakar. It's fun to see Suzie's flunkies sputter in incoherent rage.
I guess A. Roy was referring to 'The Prejudice In The Details' where the capitalists exploit the Tribals and Advasis by deception, corrupt practices, wilful voilation of human rights and total disregards to the rule of law with the help of the State. Is this the way to progress and development?
Yes there is there is an oppressor in the oppressed and this has to be kept in mind while designing a new society but it does not allow us to ignore the present oppression.
This reads like a hurried and ill-prepared apologia for those attacked by Roy in her article. This touches the issues in concern tangentially and tries to distract the readers from the issue in question rather than validly countering Roy's arguments. For example, is Salwa Judum a simple tribal-vs-tribal issue? Not even Indian judiciary thought that; Patel talks about all this with detachment; apparently in an attempt to be objective but that is a way of distorting the truth with gentle words.
And his argument about the genuineness of corporate philanthropy are naive and laughable at best. While depicting Bill Gates as the savior of Polio and Malaria-infested people, he conviniently forgets that it is the monopoly and arm-twisting of the obscenely wealthy Microsoft Corporation that is choking the rival proponents of free software so that poor people at India and elsewhere are forced to eitehr use his costly and sclerotic software or remain computer-illiterate. On factual accuracy, most he does to rectify apparently erroneous data in Roy's article is "The figure “trillions of dollars” is far from accurate." As if the 'accurate figures' are displayed everywhere.
Not that capitalists are weak at defending their position. But this article deceives their cause if the purpose is to counter Roy's well-argued piece.
Hi Aakar Patel, devil is in the detail man! Its true. Now get your facts right and read this. http://wws.princeton.edu/news/Kohli_PovertyPlentyInTheNewIndia2012/
Also, read : http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?278843
Very interesting Article
Your article is very interesting,very mature and thought provoking.Unlike of Arunghuti Roy you have substantiated your comments and remarks with facts and figures and hence it has becomes more authenticated.Arundhati Roy sees a ghost in every shadow and according to her every thing in India is evil except tribal the Maoists and "innocent"Kashmiris.After reading the article I felt she has got very less practical knowledge about what she has written.I will request Madam Roy to visit Kashmir and to stay with army people for few days like Barkha Dutt and Sony Razdan were doing.Army is not that bad madam as you think.
Good one. "Why is the tribal unrepresented in the body that does battle for him? Because the tribal is uninterested in the ideology of extremist Marxism." This one line should educate the likes of Arundhati, if they can be.
20/D-111 @ Sachin,
It is the new guy Krishna Prasad who is trying to earn his stripes, beining more leftist than the man who named his dog. Did'nt you see the return of the usual suspects (S. Anand, the perennial Goddess of BIG SCREAMS, Meena Kandasamy et al). Did you read the esoterica about Ambedkar and Marxism? Watch out now for the Bolshevik regurgitations on the upliftment-cum-removal of masses of the poor in China and Waste Bengal.
I am a staunch supporter of Capitalism and not Crony-Capitalism. Sad to say, even in the temple of Capitalism that I live in, it's the Crony-Capitalism that has upended the system. I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I do believe in the ideal free-market though.
I will always be opposed to Arundhati Roy and her ilk (Noam Chomsky, others) for their idiotic views about the 'downtrodden'.
We need to ask ourselves a question: what is ' progress'? A tribal who known nothing better than subsistence living - is he really unhappy in his/her world? What is happiness? Could it be defined as a state of contentedness with oneself? Is a tribal who is, let us assume making ends meet, and is happy with whatever his/her lot in life is, really need exposure and assistance to bring him 'up'? (house, Maruti Alto etc were mentioned earlier by other posters)
Nature abhors charity. Every animal/plant/organism lives because it has earned the right to. We humans, the intelligent, thinking, progressive species subverted the altruistic nature ingrained in our DNA to do charity. It *is* infinitely human to help another fellow human in need. If asked, I would certainly help anyone in need.
However, it is the humans that make charity itself a goal of their life (Arundhati Roy, Noam Chomsky, et al) that I absolutely loath.
I might disagree with this Aakar guy about his other opinions regarding Modi, but if he has facts to back up his argument, I don't see why anyone should hate him for that.
Aakar Patel rebuts Arundhati Roy's 'Capitalism, a Ghost Story' article in 'outlook's" latest issue - Apr 30, 2012.
He says that Roy has her facts wrong. It is useful for a magazine to publish such rejoinders to show their neutrality. Actually, 'Outlook' is misleading readers when it publishes such opinion without comment from the editor.
Both ‘isms’ – Communism and Capitalism are dead, unless one would, Ostrich-like, ignore the 2008 meltdown
Patel should read Santhosh Hegde's Lokayukta Report on illegal mining in Karnataka, and if he has read it admit that he suppressed facts there in to suit his views. Now, that is not very honest capitalism, if indeed there could be any honesty about an ideology based in the profit motive. Galbraith (no ‘commie, except, perhaps, to fringe Republicans) called it re-branding of capitalism, as "Free market", "innocent fraud, when the word came to be associated with the evils of exploitation of man by man!
The loss to government, read people, as per the Report is Rs. 1,22,28,14,22,854/- (Rs. 122.28 Crores) in five years, from 2006 to 2010. Out of total illegal exports of 17.58 Lakh MT, 14.85 Lakh MT were exported from Krishnapatanam port, administered and managed by a private company. As the ‘New York Times’ said, “The hidden hand of the market will never work without the hidden fist”. “McDonald’s cannot flourish without McDonnell Douglas, designer of F-15’s”. (Read, “The Corporation that changed the world” – Nick Robins).
“From Plassey to Waterloo, fifty-seven years, the drain of India’s wealth to England is computed by Brook Adams at two-and-a-half to five billion dollars” – a quote from “The case for India” by Will Durant. This is the loot by just one foreign company.
Indian looters, from a CM (Jharkhand) in jail to another charged with the same crime, looting India’s mineral wealth, have shown themselves more efficient in practicing this variety of capitalism.
It is indeed strange that after 2 G, CWG, Mining, Tatra, Devas and other scandals, which we have seen, in this era of a scam-a-day, people still think that Capitalism works. And this, when over 300 million Indians starve daily.
Would Patel re-check whether the “Ghosts” of either ignorance or prejudice are in his mind!
Fully Agree with ANWAAR.
Give the tribals good houses with running water, electricity supply, good schools & roads, affordable hospitals and may be a MARUTHI AULTO too. Then ask them if they want to be in the forest holding on to the MINERALS or would they prefer the "newly offered Life". 99.99% would opt for the "better life". The only problem is that the SHOPS of Arundhti and Medha will be closed permanently.
Is this the same Aakar Patel who Minted the 'We are South Indians , Not Indians' or some such obscenity ? If so , I am afraid Outlook has fallen in bad company.
As to his opinion on Arundhati' ghost story , I am sure this man's ghost as well as hubris need be downsized. Inclinations permitting , I'll be back.
Is this high school standard essay a revenge on us for reading the contents for free on outlook website. I can assure VM that I do buy the print edition once in a while but I am glad that I did not buy this one. Reading this article after paying some money would have been more depressing.
Capitalism requires the harshest of criticism, no point in objecting to that. But the equally harsh truth is that there is no viable alternative to this deplorable system for the foreseeable future. So what is to be seriously debated for our immediate purpose is the question--what type of capitalism is best for India?
In this context one need not glorify the essentially fruitless violence and destruction unleashed by the Maoists (the term, by the way, is a misnomer). Nor can we agree with the critic of Arundati, Mr AAkar Patel, who wants the tribals to be dragged into the so-called modernity by forces whose credentials are not yet fully established.
Why can't Arundhati ask the Christian missionaries like 'World Vision' to leave the tribals alone instead of making them anti-nationals like Maoists or Naxals.Maoism is the highway for evangelical activities and conversions,as it has happened in Nepal where after the Maoists have taken over a new church is coming up everyday.
Between the two, I'd definitely prefer A. Roy. She writes rubbish, but at least is eloquent. This guy writes rubbish and has no style.
Thanks for this article. at least it backs up his claim with some facts and figures rather than the motional fiction like Arundhati. The fact is tribals are being used by all... Maoists, arundhati, miners politicians etc.. because they are uneducated .. they are not aware of the world outside their surroundings.. So instead of fighting government arundhati should fight Maoists who have not done anything to educate them.. and on the contrary are destroying school buildings
Patel is not glorifying corporates but projecting a middle ground. A. Roy must realise that her accusaions are false and higly prejudiced and withdraw her support to the misguided Maoists whom she glorified as 'Ármed Gandhijis'. Maoist strategies are useless and destructive. They have lost all sympathy from an overwhelming majority of the people. The only path they should take in order to cleanse the system is Anna Hazare's or something similar.
I stopped reading Godess' verbiages long back. And I won't read anything countering her as well. It is simply waste of time.
The Goddess and many other who like to scoff at the "criminal" middle class at each and every opportunity are cunning enough to sleep and agree with the mullahs as they know which side has the daggers drawn to chop off the heads of Nicolas Bergs and Salman Rushdies.
The Goddess and her ilk are fortunate enough to be educated in expensive schools and their 5 star lives and they write in English. Otherwise they are not even fit to tie the shoelaces of the likes of Sunil Gangopdhyays.
This is getting boring. Is outlook suffering from a paucity of good writers? Even Roy would have suggested to take her rants with a bucketful of salt. And, now we have this irrelevant buffoon peddling his high-school essay-esque analysis. Akaar Patel's columns are suited for a evening tabloid. I have a sincere request to Outlook not to fall for such charlantans.
Btw, I spent a considerable part of my life in Jharkhan. Yet to meet a tribal who waxed lyrical over his jungle life. Poor tribals' lives are excessively romanticised like our famed bandits of the Chambal ravine. That reminds me of an interview with the famous Malkhan Singh or some other Singh from that line of dacoits. When asked if he had a horse to trot up and down the ravine, he famously quipped that if he could afford a horse, he wouldn't have been a dacoit in the first place.
Roy and this jackass are two sides of the same coin: idlers masquerading as intellectuals.
BTW, watch out for comments from people like " SOUMYA SAXENA
WACHTBERG", 'Saraswati- zurich', Ganapathi- Luxumburg' etc..... These folks are actually Maoists posting from some dusty net caffe in Ranchi or Bastar...
Interesting!! Arundhati Roy Vs Aaker Patel-
Alien Vs Predator comes to my mind... dont know why!
After reading this article I feel that my degree in Humanitarian Action has not been a waste.
I find Mr. Akaar Patel has written just too simplistically. You can give figures of mining industries and Tata's and Jindal but ask yourself are they complete?You can speak against Ms. Roy but you cannot certainly deny the exploitation of tirbals and natural reserves of our 'mahaan nation'.
You talk about Bill Gates giving about his money for 'charity', do you know what charity is? do you know that just flowing in money does no good to people stripped of their habitats? Do you realize why African countries are still backward? Corporations are busy bleeding it white while flowing in this 'charity' money to wash off their sins or possibly set it off.. did it do any good? a big NO and same is the case in this situation.
And same goes for the Tata's charity you are talking about. He wouldn't have to give it if he did not disrupt the lives of these tribals in the first place.
Then you give this wonderful example and put the entire blame on the Tribals for their crimes and corruption by citing examples of Shibu Soren and Madhu Koda.... forgetting the BIGGER corruption issues of the corporate giants who roam around in white collars. Sounds pretty much racist and caste based disparity to me.
Then you give this utterly simplistic, school essay competition conclusion that state does not need to change and tribals should have external influence, women hygiene etc, etc. But you need to understand that this external influence need not be the corporate hand of god, these problems are pretty much created by state and fueled by the corporate monster on rise.
You simply sound like not only supporting the corporate but also think their intervention is like a boon for the Tribals.
Again a big NO. Things need to change for themselves not because it becomes easy for corporations to get what they want by handing a aid package to the affected people.
USA is one of the leading aid provider but half of the problems are created because of them, to the extent they use their aid policy as a foreign policy tool. you mess with them and they take away their money and you are left with no bread.
Are you proposing a similar scenario?
Learn a bit more about Aid and this sin washing term 'charity', their ill effects and then give your expert comments.
Romanticizing India's tribals, just as romanticizing America's native "Indians", does them no good. They need the same things the rest of us do: job security, health care, good schools etc. Scribes may glamorize their stories, but as long as they depict their real lags and disadvantages to us, they are serving a useful function.
I have worked in NGO, and I can tell you few things which most of you dont know. Arundhatis and Megha patekars are not about the trible rights and fights but about Platforms for fame and career. Just like patekar has anti-dam, Roy has anti-capitalism 'platform'. And they dont like each other trespass either's terratory. When Roy came to Narmada to expand her 'platform', Patekar was so furious that she run away to avoid any pictures taken with her. They dont have slightest 'feeling' for those tribes!
Tribals are 100s time lot better in their 'displaced' land than their jungles even if it doesnt match urban set up.
I expected an entertaining showdown between a quasi-intellectual provocator and a professional insulter.
I am deeply disappointed.
An attempt by Aakar Patel to infuse logic in his arguments makes this article quite insipid.
He just manages to regurgitate data without any meaningful derivation. This round goes to Arundhati.
"Shielding tribal from the outside world keeps them just as they are. This might have aesthetic appeal for some, but most tribal don’t think so"
Those who think that tribal should be left as they are, should join them in forest. All humans were tribal at one time. If it is good for the vast majority us who joined the modern world, why it should not be good for few who are still living as tribal?
May be it has aesthetic appeal for some selfish “intellectuals”. Who draws pleasure from this aesthetic appeal? Isn’t it in our mind? The question is what appeals to tribal?
Xavier, are you associted with the JOHAR?
This guy is the Ron Paul of India!
Firstly, Aakar Patel is unfortunately a male. He lacks the shrillness of a feminist authoress.
Secondly, Aakar is unfortunately a male. Hence, he is less likely to be trusted or believed by an anti-male populace.
Idiot vs Idiot. lol
<<Ore and minerals haven’t made India’s big companies wealthy, for they contribute less than one per cent to India’s GDP>>
How much have tribals benefited from minerals and ore export other than losing their land and traditional livelihood.
<<All this changed in 2004, with Chinese demand growing>>
On September 21, 2004, through the merger of the Communist Party of India (Marxist–Leninist) People's War and the Maoist Communist Centre of India (MCC). Can you see the similarities?
<<Ratan Tata has less than 1 percent in Tata Sons>>
And an Irish citizen is the largest shareholder.
<<Who are the Salwa Judam thugs? Tribals>>
That is a vapid logic. If there are terrorists, the government should arm the people to fight them. Superb, why waste tax payers money on military and paramilitary forces.
Since it is hobson's choice, I am with you, Aakar Patel, because the lady sleeps with the comrades.
Not just Arundhati Roy, a lot of the educated left on the side of the dispossed against those selfish middle class pple......are all upper middle or upper class types closer in personal manner and thought to a western ground. They have all gone to chic and some very expensive schools :) many of them speak more english than any vernacular atleast in spirit!
since independence our liberation ideas come from two strains- one selfish, that is I am in it becuase this is abt my pple. The other is upper class slumming around revelry, they all talk abt village, tribal and agrarian women and land up in upper class univs, tv and talk circuits.
Our leaders depended on our industrialists and the anti-capitalists depend on their capital,aeroplanes and expensive univs and libraries :)
Like Sarojini Naidu it takes a lot of money to keep......in poverty
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