It’s as if the Dalits are now some neo-holy cows (A Cowed-Down Nation, Apr 30). Any criticism and you are branded anti-Dalit and banished. They expect everyone to carry the burden of the supposed sins the forbears of a “forward” Hindu committed. Forgive me, but is this not identical to a caste-Hindu position? This is the real dilemma today. The caste Hindus cannot forget their caste; they are continuously reminded of it by the pro-Dalit ‘politirati’. PS: If Ms Kandasamy wants to be another Arundhati Roy, at least let her learn some English. It might make her articles worth reading—as a piece of fiction.
Sharat Chandra, Kalpakkam
Isn’t it ironical that it is Dr Ambedkar, the father (not mother) of our Constitution, who put down Article 48, on banning cow slaughter?
C.V. Venugopalan, Palakkad
The issue here is the right of people to eat what they want. This holds true as much for eating beef in Osmania Univ as it does to eating pork in Aligarh Muslim University.
Zafar, Sydney
Didn’t Dr Ambedkar call upon Dalits to convert to Buddhism which insists on stricter ahimsa and prohibits killing of all animals, not just cows?
Charan Dewry, Guwahati
Opinionated pieces are welcome, but when you pass even those completely lacking in logic, you touch a new low in journalistic standards. If you must fill your pages, please do so with gossip about Ukrainian politics or some such rather than this sort of lopsided piece reeking of prejudice.
Chittaranjan, Bangalore
A very silly article this. No one is stopping a Dalit from eating beef, but also no one has the right to offend any other group in public. And what has Modi got to do with the beef-eating episode? Is there some unwritten code that if there isn’t some Modi-bashing, the article will not get published?
Maya S., Mumbai
It’s the Jainism/Buddhism influence which made India more vegetarian. And anyway, with mutton beyond reach for many poor Hindus, they’ll have to turn to beef. It’s cheap, it’s healthy, people everywhere eat it. Why can’t we?
K. Madhu, Hyderabad
The article seems to have been written in a vacuum. You cannot expect a select group to be tolerant and allow their beliefs to be compromised when an entire atmosphere of appeasement has been created in the country. Let people eat, read, listen and see what they want, but don’t limit this maxim to Hinduism only.
Navien K. Batta, Muscat
Earlier, when the cows grew old, the farmer used to sell them to slaughterhouses. But now, with cow slaughter illegal in many states, and the sort of vigilantism afoot, forget cows, even bullock carts are disappearing from villages. It’s come to such a pass that the farmer can’t afford to keep cows!
Kalpana Bala, Mumbai
Please stop promoting these Arundhati Roy wannabes. Kandasamy isn’t even a Dalit, she was born to upper-caste parents and, like a few others we know of, has only taken up the Dalit cause just to keep herself in the news.
Selvan, Boston, US
Is it that Meena, having failed to give it back to her commie ex-husband, is taking it out on upper-caste Hindus now?
K. Suresh, Bangalore
What is the relation between sexual desires and a cow? What nonsense is this association of an Oedipus complex with a “love” for cow’s large eyes and white colour? Most absurd. Cows have some great qualities, but they are far beyond the imagination of this writer.
B.V.G. Rao, Warangal
The Mahabharata describes how 2,000 cows were killed every day in King Rantideva’s palace. The skins were kept heaped and the liquids oozing out created a river, ‘Sarmanvadhi’ (emanating from skin), as Vyasa described it. Many Brahmin guests graced the dinners arranged by the king as recorded in the chapter ‘Vanaparva’ 208: 8-10. Kalidasa also eulogised Rantideva in Meghdoot for having created the Sarmanvadhi (Meghdoot 1.45). Scholar Rahul Sankrityayan has extensively quoted these passages in his work, From the Volga to the Ganges. It’s not that the cow was not sacred during the Vedic era. It was held sacred, which is why it was killed and eaten. It has been recorded thus in the Vajasaneyi Samhita, “Cow and ox are sacred. So they must be eaten.”
V. Tholibangan, on e-mail
She is a sick hate filled woman.
It is people like her who are responsible for riots.
Outliik specialises in promoting fascist Hindu haters.
If there is dispute between Vedas and any other text, then Vedas are considered supreme according to all scriptures as they are shruti literature and mahabharata would be part of the itihaasas. The allegation of cow-killing at Rantideva’s palace is a fraud allegation refuted decades ago by several scholars. 1. Anushasan Parva 115 lists Rantideva as one of the kings who never consumed meat. How can that be possible if beef was amply available at his palace? 2. The particular shloka alleges that each day 2000 cows were killed. This means more than 720,000 cows were killed each year. Is it logical to take such a shloka seriously? 3. Mahabharat Shantiparva 262.47 asserts that one who kills cows or bulls is a great sinner. The same Mahabharat calls King Rantideva a great saint and pious person. How can there be such a blatant contradiction in same text? 4. In reality, the shlokas have been distorted by Mr. Rahul Sankrityayana who Mr.Tholibangan mention.This Rahul Sankrityayana deliberately quoted only 3 lines of the verse and left 1 line from Dronaparva Chapter 67 first two shlokas. He misinterpreted Dwishatsahasra to mean 2000 when it actually means 200 thousand. This itself shows his competence in Sanskrit.None of these lines have any reference to beef. And when combined with 4th line that he deliberately missed, it means that Rantideva had 200,000 cooks in his kingdom who used to serve good food (rice, pulses, cooked food, sweets etc) day and night to guests and scholars. 5. On the contrary there are ample verses in Mahabharat which talk of non-violence and condemn beef eating. Further they praise charity of cows and their nurture.
@Zafar:It's strange how a lot of people feel the unrestrainable urge to 'prove' the existence of endorsements of beef-eating in the aadi granthas. The link you gave me-of some Mr.Chakravarthy who contradicts himself repreatedly-was not helpful at all mate. This guy is confused and keeps talking about how the same scriptures that-in his eyes recommend beef-eating-ALSO in several verses, clearly state that the cow should not be slaughtered.So,EVEN this chap knows that there are anti-cow-slaughter verses in these scriptures. If you read the vedas you would not have this opinion.This is like some hindus claiming that prophet muhammed believed in rebirth.By that I am referring to the 'cycle of life and death',many births & many deaths.They claim this on the basis of this quote of the prophet mentioned in the hadees>>The Prophet said: …I would love to be martyred in Allah’s Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred… [Bukhari 4.54]. Could the Prophet, who was an ideal person and a role model for his country, the chosen one of Allah, think anything opposite to Allah’s will? If concept of rebirth is anti Islamic and against Allah’s will, could Muhammad wish to get life again and again? Answer is no. Do you believe this mate? So the beef-eating point is similiar for the dharmikas? As I have already stated in my previous post,people who treat even the holy crap & urine of the 'holy' cow with respect are obviously offended by this." You & I may not have a problem but this goes against their fundamental beliefs. :-) Please do read these articles,the links of which are provided below, if you don't have the time to read even the disputed verses from these scriptures.In these articles there are relevant references & they tally with my copy of the vedas.There are many other articles that you shall find on the internet that prove there is no beef-eating in the vedas. 1)http://agniveer.com/68/no-beef-in-vedas/ 2)http://agniveer.com/3942/no-beef-in-vedas-part2/ Cheers!! @Shri Shri Shri Anwaar Baba:Babaji,anyone who knows anything about B.R. Ambedkar will know exactly what his views on Hinduism were. But do you know ,what his views on the decline of Buddhism in south asia were? He was a neo-buddhist remember!! Here,read on>>“There can be no doubt that the fall of Buddhism in India was due to the invasions of the Musalmans,” writes the author. “Islam came out as the enemy of the ‘But’. The word ‘But,’ as everybody knows, is an Arabic word and means an idol. Not many people, however, know that the derivation of the word ‘But’ is the Arabic corruption of Buddha. Thus the origin of the word indicates that in the Moslem mind idol worship had come to be identified with the Religion of the Buddha. To the Muslims, they were one and the same thing. The mission to break the idols thus became the mission to destroy Buddhism. Islam destroyed Buddhism not only in India but wherever it went. Before Islam came into being Buddhism was the religion of Bactria, Parthia, Afghanistan, Gandhar and Chinese Turkestan, as it was of the whole of Asia….” Dr.Ambedkar also laments the nature of priesthood and the practices of the communities (Buddhism and Hinduism) that enabled Hinduism to survive, while, Buddhism was not so lucky, against the brutal assaults by Muhammadans. “Such was the slaughter of the Buddhist priesthood perpetrated by the Islamic invaders. The axe was struck at the very root. For by killing the Buddhist priesthood, Islam killed Buddhism. This was the greatest disaster that befell the religion of the Buddha in India….” He continues elsewhere “…and the difference is so great that it contains the whole reason why Brahmanism survived the attack of Islam and why Buddhism did not.”
230 poor souls have become the victime of a troll. Hang on,SO HAVE I !!!!!! So make that 231 then
#229/D-55 @Sangeeta - Thanks for such a priceless link - even if it were April Foolean.
"That explained why many 'progressives' and 'radicals' were horrifically negative as human beings, many of them being irritatingly obnoxious, judgemental, cantankerous, dour and sullen. Their penchant for protest made them only more so. Believing themselves to be somehow morally superior to others because they had, so they thought, devoted themselves to the 'oppressed' made many of them painfully sanctimonious and proud."
One can easily identify a number of 'activists' answering to this description.
Quickly, heres the latest talk of the town... I dont know but I dont still believe it. It could be a mere hoax or an april "phool" prank as well. Whatever it be, perhaps its time for some "social activists" and step back and reflect upon themselves (sorry, didnot know where else to put this info). Meenaa ??
Why I Gave Up On 'Social Activism'
By Yoginder Sikand
Zafar, Thats fine. While going through the comments, I saw you commenting the directive to be dubious. But in later posts you were almost conclusive about it. So I had to post info reg the directive and my stand on this is clear from my earlier post. From what I observed (in my native), farmers (many of them) cannot even afford to have a pair of oxen (Cows will not be engaged/yoked-to in ploughing the land/) and have seen oxen being engaged even after their aging to the extent that they cannot stand or are very shaky when they do
>> It's murky
Thanks for the link.
>> I don't think it's wrong to differentiate cow slaughter from killing pigs - one impinges on religious sentiments, the other does not
One can differentiate. Would still be wrong to ban either.
The only concession I would make, and that too with a lot of apprehension, is that in certain areas (talking about public places only of course. Private institutions have a right to institute their own rules), restrictions be allowed. e.g., AFAIK, in Haridwar, meat is prohibited. It's not something I would usually support. What if a resident there wants to eat meat? Is he/she required to move, or be forced to travel out of town just to eat meat? Despite this, in very limited areas (which should not increase with time), restrictions might be supported
@ Alakshyendra - though I do think you keep trying to change the subject. Why?
@ WIAN
It's murky:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/some-ban-some-restrict-a-few-dont/895341/0
Uttar Pradesh: The UP Prevention of Cow Slaughter Act prescribes imprisonment up to seven years, as per an amendment in effect since 2002, a police officer says. Consumption of canned beef is allowed but sale or transportation of cattle for the purpose of slaughtering will invite prosecution. The officer says someone caught slaughtering frequently can face charges under the Gangster Act and the National Security Act.
And I repeat - I don't think it's wrong to differentiate cow slaughter from killing pigs - one impinges on religious sentiments, the other does not. Let's just be up front about why we ban cow slaughter and not pretend that it's for other reasons.
@ Sangeetha - why can't we just leave it up to farmers to decide what is in their own best economic interest wrt keeping a cow, killing a cow, etc? The Govt doesn't need to tell a farmer this - the farmer is not STUPID. jmho.
@ Alakshyendra - okay. I'm sorry I was mean. I apologise.
Regards to all.
As a secular fascist who wants to provoke riots as your collaborators did in Godhra, you should certainly try it.
This is strange. I wanted beef and pork festivals where people volunteer to eat. No one is force fed. How does that translate to fascism. I think you are intellectually changed.
Pradip Singh,
>> The filth and idiocy is coming from the jihadi fascists.
True, and it is coming from you too. Just read the last six or eight of your comments, and you will agree.
Zafar,
[[Hey I'm pretty nice to you Alakshyendra. Even when you write stupid things.]]
If I listed out every stupid thing you wrote here, I would have no time for anything else. Thank god I'm not tempted enough to respond to everything you write. But the fact remains that when a man resorts to writing stuff as above, you know that he has no answer and has to write something like that.
Anwaar Dallas, United States
>>>>>>Do you come to this forum just to spew your mindless filth? It seems all you want to do is to make an idiot of yourself!
The filth and idiocy is coming from the jihadi fascists and thier collaboraotrs which is to be expected from the soldiers of Islamic exapnsioism.
But do not worry you will meet resistance.
Selvan Boston, United States >>>>>This is just the start. You are going to see a lot of beef eating festivals all over the country. I like it and would be glad if they introduce pork too into it.
>> But the law (and the Constitution, if one takes its directives seriously) is supportive of one religion based ban (even for non-Hindus in many states) while it is neutral on the other.
Which is why the law is wrong, and I've criticized it many times. It's similar to religion based personal laws and exclusive privileges to minority community. They should all be abolished.
>> which is why it's illogical to try and say that they are the same.
I never said they are same. I'm just curious if Pork is served in any such institute, and if no, has anyone ever demanded it.
>> It boils down to: in AMU you could go to jail for eating beef while there is no legal panalty for eating pork.
Is there a ban on beef in UP? I don't know. Just curious.
And yes, such a discrepancy would be wrong. But it doesn't answer my question.
48 under 'Directive principles of state policy' reads as follows
48. The State shall endeavour to organise agriculture and animal husbandry on modern and scientific lines and shall, in particular, take steps for preserving and improving the breeds, and prohibiting the slaughter, of cows and calves and other milch and draught cattle
and the summary of the same here is
Organisation of agriculture and animal husbandry
Clearly the directive does talk about other milch and includes draught cattle too, along with the cows. And hindus revere only cows and ban is sought only against cow slaughter (its different topic on how its implemented). Now pray tell me, wheres the religious connotation to the directive principle ? Is it because cow is included in the list or because of its explicit mentioning ? Immediately following it is the amendment 48A which reads as follows
48A. The State shall endeavour to protect and improve the environment and to safeguard the forests and wild life of the country.
Reg the draught animals heres something which I had a chance to go through sometime back. Excerpts from it ...
Animals continue to be major source of motive power of India and used by majority of the small farmers.In 1961 the contribution of the draught animals to the total energy requirements of the farming system was 71 per cent. other operations like interculture and seed drilling are almost exclusively carried out with work bullocks. During 1961-62 to 1991-92, the population of working bovine has reduced from 77.81 to 77.69 million, registering negative growth of 0.20% perannum.
But with the growing mechanisation of farming, I think perhaps its time to review/amend the art. Reg cow protection, I think, that canbe done with a tie-up with local temple administrations in keeping gau-shalas, which may be maintained by donations from the concerned and the ("nonutilitarian") cattle can be purchased by it. If not sustainable, the temple may put out its grievanaces reg the same, further to which it can be decided upon what to do. I dont know if its workable but just thought I'll put forth my views on this
Finally, here are the views of MKGandhi (not the fake one) on cow/cow slaughter
But the law (and the Constitution, if one takes its directives seriously) is supportive of one religion based ban
Right, Law is not right. This law must be taken out along with Muslim and other religion specific personal laws.
There must be Uniform Civil Code and no religion based laws.
[The main idea was not to equate the two, but to point out that the issue here is the right of people to eat what they want. This holds true as much for eating beef in OU, as eating pork in AMU.]
But the law (and the Constitution, if one takes its directives seriously) is supportive of one religion based ban (even for non-Hindus in many states) while it is neutral on the other. Perhaps for good reasons, because the two are actually different in nature, which is why it's illogical to try and say that they are the same.
It boils down to: in AMU you could go to jail for eating beef while there is no legal panalty for eating pork.
[Hindus worship cows and they are sacred for them. Muslims hate pigs and are proscribed to eat pork.]
I am not the one trying to equate a ban on beef with a ban on pork.
Barua
<<but surprsingly find your fetish fantasy about the author absolutely fine>>
What is the writer of this article writing about. Insintuation of Hindus have Oedipus Complex and bestiality? Meena Kandasamy is getting what she deserves. If you are going to abuse a religion then you are going to get back in the same way.
>> Because that is certainly the same as a constitutional directive or a law passed by a State Parliament, wahwah! lajawaab
Had written a detailed response to this post, which for some reason, can't see now.
Won't bother repeating. The main idea was not to equate the two, but to point out that the issue here is the right of people to eat what they want. This holds true as much for eating beef in OU, as eating pork in AMU.
@ Gaurab Bannerji
I think 'Socialist' and 'Secular' were not there in 1950. These were added to the preamble much later when Mrs. Gandhi was prime minister
<<Our laws penalise cow slaughter and eating beef>>
Hindus worship cows and they are sacred for them. Muslims hate pigs and are proscribed to eat pork.
Jinnah said that Muslims eat beef and they want a separate country. Why are Muslims and Dalits hell bent to destroy the social fabric of the country.
You can't eat dog meat in USA. Even in China towns, orientalists are not allowed to eat dogmeat and is banned by law. If a US citizen of Korean origin can respect the law of the country even when dogs are not sacred, what is wrong with the minorities who want to eat beef in open.
Last but not the least, there is an episode about the prophet advising his followers to drink the camel piss. What will happen if some nutty writer writes about the insinuations of bestiality of a particular religion. By the way, the infamous Pakistan animal sex search had included camel sex as well.
Still I have no problem with someone eating beef in private. Why are you eating the beef and celebrating it. This means that Dalits wants to show theit separate identity. If dagggers are drawn, you better watch your a**.
Alakshyendra
[Trying to make it an issue about constitutional directive or law is just trying to divert the issue to something totally irrelevant and just splitting "baal ki khaal". ]
Laws are how societies enforce certain behaviours and penalise other behaviours. Our laws penalise cow slaughter and eating beef.
[The fact remains that in not one state in the entire country is beef not available.]
Gujarat.
[Muslims or whoever else eats beef have never had any problem finding beef.]
Really? I grew up in Delhi and while you could buy buffalo meat, but beef was completely unavailable as it was ILLEGAL. I don't think this is unusual in North India.
[Coming to cow slaughter, even if it is enforced, what makes you think beef won't be available? Is cow the only source of beef?]
The cow and her progeny are the only source of beef. In some states the ban on cow slaughter is specific to cows, in others it includes their progeny. (See the MP law posted earlier, for eg.)
[By the same token, I guess you (your community)]
Oh and which is my community? Muslims? Cutchi Memons? North Indians? Delhiwallahs? Middle Class Indians? English speaking Indians? Indian men? Indian migrants? Indians with college educations? Indians who do not define their views and interests by religious identity? Which of these shoudl I exclusively pick and why?
[should focus on how you treat and interact non-Muslims rather than rant endlessly about how miserably you're being treated?]
Hey I'm pretty nice to you Alakshyendra. Even when you write stupid things. You should acknowledge that.
Regards
Where are my bill of rights. The freedom provided to me to speak my mind in the constitution. Why are my resplendent, intellectual comments are deliberately deleted.
[[I think the Dalit issue at Osmania goes deeper than beef, and has more to do with the way caste Hindus view them and treat them and their customs. Maybe you should deal with that rather than giving them a hard time because they are hurt?]]
By the same token, I guess you (your community) should focus on how you treat and interact non-Muslims rather than rant endlessly about how miserably you're being treated?
[[Because that is certainly the same as a constitutional directive or a law passed by a State Parliament, wahwah! lajawaab.]]
Trying to make it an issue about constitutional directive or law is just trying to divert the issue to something totally irrelevant and just splitting "baal ki khaal". The fact remains that in not one state in the entire country is beef not available. Muslims or whoever else eats beef have never had any problem finding beef. Coming to cow slaughter, even if it is enforced, what makes you think beef won't be available? Is cow the only source of beef?
[I would be curious to know how many Muslim universities like AMU allow Pork on the campus for students who are interested.]
Because that is certainly the same as a constitutional directive or a law passed by a State Parliament, wahwah! lajawaab.
In the North NO university would allow beef on the menu. No matter what its religious affiliation was, there would be no beef.
The interesting thing about Osmania is that the demand for beef on the menu is being made by a section of Hindus who eat beef, it isn't being made by non-Hindus. Trying to turn it into a discussion of AMU's wicked (presumably) pork banning ways is deliberately missing the point.
>>D-47/194
On the one hand we lack critical thinking. A fraud-science will ofcourse use scientific lingo. In the 2 cases that I have cited, in the first case, a scientist said that he would not like to comment on "such religious matters." In my opinion, it is the equivalent of doctors violating hippocratic oath The Times of India Journalists did a better job of explaining surface tension to non-science people.
In the 2nd case, it is a sad case of very incompetent people occupying posts in academic institutions along with brilliant ones. Now many or most newspapers do not have serious science journalists and they end up giving equal coverage to sublime and ridiculous.In science coverage it does not cause any serious problem, and can easily be set right. In the case of social sciences it has vitiated the atmosphere.
About beef eating, I found one posting www.outlookindia.com/feedbacks.aspx interesting. But I do not know how true it is. My response will ofcourse depend on that. As I see it, lot of emotion is being generated, without trying to understand the other party. I kow that most hindus do not eat beef but they would be horrified by the vigilantism of Dara Singh (Killer of Graham Staines and his sons, and also killer of a muslim cattle trader in a gruesome way.) Equally true that practically no muslim eats pork but they do not meddle with others eating pork.
1. Do you ban milk or what do you do with old cattle?
2. Before Hindutva parties came into existence (around 1925), what was the actual practice with cattle (as opposed to visible practice)?
3. About vaginal whitening cream or whatever, I did not know that such a thing existed. Wierd. On a light note, something I enjoyed on fairness creams www.himalmag.com/component/content/article/5047-why-fuss-fuss-about-mack-up-creams.html
>>GAURAB BANERJEE
SOCIALIST, SECULAR came during emergency but more than ever need to keep it there. I agree with your sentiment.
This is the most ugly, wretched piece of article I had ever read in my life.
It only shows very perverted, dissatisfied, frustrated life of the author,
Where is the relation between sexual desires and a cow? What nonsense is this association of Oedipus complex (having a sexual desire for one's own mother without any conscious awareness) with a "love" for cow's large eyes and white colour?? Most absurd!!
Cow's urine has anti-biotic properties. Cow's milk can replace mother's milk; in fact, in olden days or even now in villages, cow's milk is the only alternative for one's own mother's milk. Cow has one more great quality. One's its udder is full, whether its own baby calf sucked its milk or not ( for whatever reason) it comes to the owner ,stands in front of them to take the milk. If they do not take the milk, the cow on its own, begin to release the milk from its nipples. Cow shows some more great qualities, far beyond the imagination this author called Meena.
While a Bull can have sex 100 times in a single day, each time releasing copious amount of semen, (that is why Bull is the symbol of sex power and vehicle of Lord Shiva ) a cow does not exhibit as much interest in mating but once it had sex, it devotedly associates with the Bull with which it had a mating.
Naturally cow began to represent a culture, growth of a civilization when a poor or rich farmer's wealth was only a cow!!! And this has been the case since times of Mahabharata. Off course cow eating was mentioned in Vedas, and even sacrificing of cow was also mentioned.
Cow began to represent Hindu family culture and its only asset. It is quite natural for this society to develop a reverence for it. But reading too much between the lines, perplexed with one's own perversion can take to the hallucinated levels of associating a love for cow with Oedipus complex etc., If so, then what she would call her love for her pet dog for example?? Can our own children show the love and affection our dog shows to us when we return back home?? It is nearly impossible! Is it not? If you begin to eat dog meat right in front of me, how should I feel?
There are Hindus who eat a crow, a cat (I have seen it) and a dog as well. One should remember a simple minimum curtsey while eating. You can devour like a pig and pig itself but you should not hurt the sentiments and beliefs of others with your preference for eating a cat or crow or even a cow.
>> After a second reading
Shows your stupidity.
>> However, given the historical oppression against women by Indian menfolk, it does not give characters like Whats InAName from San Francisco to rant in such despicable and gross manner.
Of course, jehadis like you want to decide what rights others should have or not.
>> Well Whats InAName; now you have earned yourself a name, and that's "Sewer-Gate/Man-Hole"
Some priests shall soon be giving out water I emit and you shall be drinking it as a proof of miracle. See this story for details
www.wired.com/opinion/2012/04/reason-under-fire-in-india/
If you don't understand it, make sure you read it a second time.
Given that the only "talent" you seem to have is to call others names, any "discussion" with you shall be a waste of my time, and shall lead to summary deletion of posts by the moderators. So, I'll not waste my time responding to you.
I suggest you spend your time reading and re-reading the articles. Make sure you understand them before commenting, and displaying your stupidity to the entire world.
After a second reading of the hard hitting article by Meena Kandaswamy, I must say that having driven her point, she could have done away with the extreme abusive language that she used in the concluding paragraph. Quote,"There cannot be a shred of doubt that in a racist nation which advertises vaginal skin-lightening creams, the large, naive eyes and flawless complexion make the cow an attractive mother. Men take pride in being mummy’s boys, but it is high time Hindutva organisations and secular, state-run universities stop being swayed by bovine sex appeal, step out of their Oedipus complex and remind themselves that cows, at least the fertile ones, are only mothers of calves. Why kill for a cow, when you aren’t born of one?", Unquote.
And here I agree to some extent with Just Joe King and DC questioning about the justification of her reference to vaginal skin lightening creams to the subject issue, except that it speaks a lot about her strong feminist personality, and even stronger hatred for male chauvinism, and patriachal norm of Indian society.
However, given the historical oppression against women by Indian menfolk, it does not give characters like Whats InAName from San Francisco to rant in such despicable and gross manner. Quote,"She shall use the money earned here to buy some vaginal skin cream, and rent some bulls to satisfy her secret fetishes."
Well Whats InAName; now you have earned yourself a name, and that's "Sewer-Gate/Man-Hole". Btw, now that you have made your fetish and fantasy known quite loud and clear, you could be declared a serious risk to the women folk of San Francisco. Beware, you could be under surveilance of the cops there, and very soon can have a GPS anklet tied in your ankle!!!
>> Here is the initial reaction of some technocrats from IISc and IIT and Peoples scientist APJ Abdul Kalam ces.iisc.ernet.in/hpg/envis/herdoc98.html .
Actually, the link you provided has little info on reaction of people about the actual experiment. Here are some reactions from different people
Scientists witnessing his demonstration at the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) said they were baffled. ``It is incredible but true,'' exclaimed IIT chemist N K Jha
So, the scientists were baffled. They didn't understand the process, but as is only fair, didn't call it a hoax until they could prove it.
As for Kalam, the article says Defence science adviser A P J Abdul Kalam has been briefed and he is reportedly ``excited.''
That's it. Nothing about him witnessing or validating the experiment. It's a different matter that he, as a rocket scientist (or merely an engineer, as the leftists like to say), he had expertise on the subject.
Some other guys just tested the fuel provided to them in a two stroke engine, while others clearly said that they see the fuel generated (before they discovered the conjurer's trick), but are unable to explain the source of carbon necessary to make the hydrocarbon.
Of course, what all this has to do with beef eating, beef festival or the article is more of a mystery than Meena's rantings against Modi, vaginal creams, upper castes, cows, sexual instincts of upper caste men, etc. In her case, we know that she is driven by hate and her in built stupidity and crudeness, apart from the money she needs to satisfy her perverted sexual fantasies. What about you?
Here are eighty six words written by Dr.B.R.Ambedkar
"WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN, SOCIALIST, SECULAR, DEMOCRATIC , REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens: JUSTICE social, economic and political; LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship; EQUALITY of status and of opportunity; and to promote among them all FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation; IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this twenty-sixth day of November, 1949, do HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION."
The use of the upper case is mine.
How many people even understand these words?
Dr.Ambedkar was a strong man who wanted to build a strong nation for which strong citizens are necessary.
The preamble to the Constitution of India speaks not of rights but of responsibilities. They are hard words and they constitute a talisman by which to live our lives and inform our actions.
Shyamal Barua>>Now, don't count the ones who time and again jumped out of their bed and ran into the nearest Ganesh temple in their lungi, chaddis, pyajamas etc. to see the idol of Lord Ganesha seeping milk through his trunk from a spoonful of milk upon contact with the tilted spoon, that was hailed as a divine blessing of God, when it's a matter of sleight of hand and resulting surface tension of milk.
According to Times of India of 22 Sept 1995 <<Scientists at the Indian Institute of Technology and the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research refused to comment on "such religious matters.">>
Remember the Ramar Pillai hoax ? Here is the initial reaction of some technocrats from IISc and IIT and Peoples scientist APJ Abdul Kalam ces.iisc.ernet.in/hpg/envis/herdoc98.html .
>> Is there a Constitutional directive to ban pig slaughter in India?
I would be curious to know how many Muslim universities like AMU allow Pork on the campus for students who are interested.
[Why can't the outlook writers ever say that both beef and pork should be freely available. ]
Is there a Constitutional directive to ban pig slaughter in India? Are Indian States passing laws which make pig slaughter or the consumption of pork jailable offences?
>>>Before you exult, have you read Ambedkar's views on Hinduism?<<<
What ever Dr Ambedkar said about Hinduism, he did NOT certainly exhort DALITS to eat BEEF nor did he coin a term like "FOOD FASCISM". More inportantly, Dr Ambedkar called upon DALITS to convert to BUDHISM which originated in India and insisted on "stricter AHIMSA" & prohibited killing of all animals - not only cow. Dr Ambedkar certainly knew about the philosophy of religions which originated in West Asia- "Judo-Christain- Islamic religions" which insist that "god has created all animals to be eaten" but did not call upon DALITS to convert to these religions but to the religion which sponsor the highest form of AHIMSA- BUDHISM.
>> "Btw, can you name one, just one Indian academic, scientist, politician, poet, writer of repute, or any person of rational thought and substance, who had not defied the social dictats of Hindutva and said some kind words about Brahminic Hinduism!!!"
1. What so you mean by "social dictats of Hindutva"?
2. The fact that left-lopped jokers like you have queasy expectations about someone lauding Brahminism or the caste system, is as dead give-away that you are still living in the 1800s. Wake up and stop seeing red all around you!! Even your town got painted blue while you were having caste-laden orgasms.
Nagaraj,
>> Dr Ambedkar's views so lucidly and correctly.
Before you exult, have you read Ambedkar's views on Hinduism?
>> What are you trying to achieve ? trying to become Chief Editorin NDTV or CNN IBN or Timesnow?
Right now, she's just trying to make some money. We are helping her cause by responding here, making both her and Outlook happy.
She shall use the money earned here to buy some vaginal skin cream, and rent some bulls to satisfy her secret fetishes.
Why can't the outlook writers ever say that both beef and pork should be freely available. I am no rss worker but it is not unfair to expect a balanced secular and not pseudo secular approach in a magazine.
@ Joe
http://beef.sabhlokcity.com/2010/12/beef-eating-in-ancient-india/
Of possible interest
I appreciate your chopping of logic, though if you ban cow slaughter and beef transport then people can only eat beef if it falls from the sky, right? So a fairly meaningless distinction. But in answer to your question, unsurprisingly:
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_total-ban-on-cow-slaughter-ferrying-of-beef-in-gujarat-from-today_1603024
After protests and agitations by Maldhari community for two months, the state government has finally imposed a complete ban on illegal cow-slaughter, transportation and selling of cow-beef. The Gujarat Animal Preservation (Amended) Act, 2011 which was passed in last assembly session will come into force in the state from October 24....
According to the Act, those involved in cow-slaughter and related crimes will be penalised with Rs50,000 fine and imprisonment of up to seven years. Anyone directly or indirectly involved in the storage, transportation or sell of cow-beef and its products will also be made to undergo the sentence under this Act. The vehicle used for illegal transportation will be seized.
And
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mp-law-7-yrs-in-jail-for-eating-beef-c.../895107/
Cow slaughter is now a serious offence and could invite a jail term of up to seven years in Madhya Pradesh. Consuming, keeping or transporting beef of any cow progeny will invite the same punishment. A police official not below the rank of a head constable — or any person authorised by a competent authority — has the power to enter, inspect and search any premises “where he has reason to believe that an offence (under this Act) has been, is being or is likely to be committed and take necessary action’’.
Fwiw, I am on balance supportive of the ban on cow slaughter and beef consumption in States where either of these is likely to cause public disorder and commnal disharmony. (So Gujarat, MP, UP - basically the cow belt.) I don't believe the cow is holy, but if enough people genuinely do, then it is good manners, at the very least, to show some respect for their sentiments. I also think that the law should be up front about why beef consumption is banned - religious sentiment - and not shilly shally with bogus agronomic economy reasons which make no sense.
I think the Dalit issue at Osmania goes deeper than beef, and has more to do with the way caste Hindus view them and treat them and their customs. Maybe you should deal with that rather than giving them a hard time because they are hurt? Just a thought.
Fact No.1 : Every human being is a product of heredity and environment.
Fact No.2 : Every human being wishes to analyse history to buttress their own views.
Is it historically possible that our forbears were beef-eaters? Why not, if at that point they were pastoralists rather than farmers.
Is it possible for dietary habits of societies to change over time? Why not, if as farmers some other group of forbears found that slaughtering the cows reduces the availability of animals suited for ploughing. Or maybe the spread of cow disease drastically reduced the number of animals. Anything is possible.
Is it possible that the protests against serving beef, that is, against cow slaughter as on date have got nothing to do with "imposition of caste-Hindu dietary diktats on Dalits"? Perhaps, but saying so will make you a "right-wing commentator". Discretion is always the better part of valour.
Opinionated pieces are welcome, but when you pass them even when they completely lack in logic, you touch a new low in journalistic standards. If you must fill your pages, please do so with the gossip about Ukrainian politics rather than such lopsided pieces reeking of prejudice. The writer might do well with a few sessions of counselling, and I will do well giving up the subscription. For, much like the writer herself, you too reflect a low opinion of your readers.
What are you trying to achieve ? trying to become Chief Editorin NDTV or CNN IBN or Timesnow? Please do not be overambitious with your pranks, those editors will become angry and may even bar you from writing articles!
BTW, will you promote Pork eating in all campus? Please let us know when you can start thinking rationally instead of blaming everything on Hindus!
Hats off to Kiran Bagachi @168D,for bringing out Dr Ambedkar's views so lucidly and correctly.
My question is simple; you don't have to go to the Constitution or debates in assemblies to prove your point. Is there a ban on the consumption of beef anywhere in the country? Or has any individual/group of people been prevented from consuming beef?
Aaah mediocrity strikes again!! Or atleast attempts to,in the form of a certain Mr.Barua. Where did he learn history?Perhaps the CPI HQ? I would think so. I,unlike him,have read all the religious scriptures(took me quite a few years) & I continued to remain agnostic.In fact,my agnosticism was strengthened because I know various religious beliefs. I know what I don't want to believe in. ;-) Anyway,Gau dhan ,as he-& this is ironic-rightly alludes to vaguely, would be used to refer to someon who is rich with cattle.Gau or Go can mean different things depending on context but here it denotes cattle-rich people.Yes,cows did become a kind of currency,in a way. Actally,in Haryana & punjab atleast,they still are. In ancient times it made perfect practical sense to not slaughter a cow because the meat would rot quickly in the relatively hot climate of India without any refrigerators existing(not that it would matter in our heat) & hence could be used to feed only a limited group of people for a very short time.Keeping the cow alive and domesticating it was a much better arrangement & gave the concerned people milk & of course milk products for quite a few years,ie. a much longer time-period.This,of course,is the practical aspect. My primary point was about the spiritual aspect,the ancient dharmik/vedic scriptures & any endorsements or recommendations of beef-eating. There are none. Whoever believes there are such endorsements should please put forward the relevant mandal,kaand and mantra. I know that I can put forward several verses from the same vedas that talk about cows being protected and not be harmed under any circumstances.
Even the 'holy crap' & 'holy urine' of the 'holy cow' was treated with respect-which is a little off-putting to some of us- but ,never mind!! Now this doesn't mean it NEVER happened,as a few people have already pointed out. Rape- by definition,is against the laws of all lands but this doesn't mean everyone follows these laws. Similiarly,in the vedic times ,of course there must have been people who ate beef.Doesn't mean it was common or even remotely endorsed by the dharmik scriptures.
When it comes to popularity,after poultry & fish ,it is Pork & not Beef that is consumed in the indian sub-continent & this has been the case for millenia.Some people believe the buddha ate pork.So perhaps there is a case for a pork eating festival to be organised in various universities across India by these same in-your-face-aggressive ,self-proclaimed 'Dalit' students. : )
//Democracy doesn´t means dictatorship of majority. Democracy means respecting belief, personal ideas, religion of minority. //
Agreed!!But similiarly democracy doesn't mean disrespecting beliefs,personal ideas & religion of the vast majority.To give only one community a bum rap all the time for whatever reason & in this case-their diet, & organise a 'festival' in a PUBLIC UNIVERSITY is deliberately provocative and unnecessary. No one is stopping them from doing this or organising other 'festivals' in a private environment.To come to daft conclusions like - this is disrespect of Dalits- is quite childish and unimaginably naive just like the "Burn the Qura'an" day. Remember what Good Ole Winston once said-
“An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last”. Winston Churchill
Alakshyendra,
[Just when have Hindus stopped people from eating beef - have you ever been?]
For your edification.
There is the ambiguous and possibly self-contradictory (directive) Article 48 in our Constitution
http://indiankanoon.org/doc/1452355/
Article 48 in The Constitution Of India 1949
48. Organisation of agriculture and animal husbandry The State shall endeavour to organise agriculture and animal husbandry on modern and scientific lines and shall, in particular, take steps for preserving and improving the breeds, and prohibiting the slaughter, of cows and calves and other milch and draught cattle
But it’s directive along the same lines as the one promoting the UCC. So unsurprisingly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_in_religion
The law in India
Slaughter of cattle is allowed with restrictions (like a 'fit-for-slaughter' certificate which may be issued depending on factors like age and gender of cattle, continued economic viability etc.) in fourteen states, it is completely banned in six states, while there is no restriction in four states.[19] Cows are routinely shipped to states with lower or no requirement for slaughter, even though it is illegal in some states to even transport cows for slaughter across provincial borders.[20] Many illegal slaughterhouses operate in large cities such as Chennai and Mumbai. While there are approximately 3,600 slaughterhouses operating legally in India, there are estimated to be over 30,000 illegal slaughterhouses.[21] Efforts to close them down have so far been largely unsuccessful.
Iow, it’s hard to legislate successfully against ordinary people acting in their own economic self interest. And it’s also hard to enforce laws, in the courts or by street violence, that try and stop people from acting in their own economic self interest.
Despite this, in 2010
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/58978/cow-slaughter-ban-bill-passed.html
Bangalore, Mar 19 (PTI)
Amid uproarious scenes, Karnataka Assembly today passed the controversial cow slaughter ban Bill, which provides for stringent punishment for violaters and makes the offence cognisable and non-bailable….
Earlier, Chief Minister B S Yeddyurappa defended the Bill, saying it was aimed at protecting cows and preserve cattle in Karnataka. A number of states, including Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Chhatisgarh and Jammu and Kashmir, already had similar legislation, he added.
Cow slaughter ban is in force in Cuba and Iran, Yeddyurappa said, and highlighted the medicinal benefits of cow urine which have been proved by research.The bill prohibits slaughter of cattle, sale, usage and possession of beef, puts restriction on transport of cattle and also prohibits sale, purchase or disposal of cattle for slaughter.
The offence is punishable with imprisonment not less than one year which may extend up to seven years or fined between Rs 25,000 to Rs 50,000 or both; second and subsequent offence would attract a fine of not less than Rs 50,000 up to Rs one lakh along with imprisonment penalty.
The bill was intended to replace the Karnataka Prevention of Cow Slaughter and Cattle Preservation Act, 1964, to prohibit the slaughter of cows and calves of she-buffaloes, bull, buffalo male or female.It is also aimed at preservation and improvement of the breeds of cattle and to endeavour to organise agriculture and animal husbandry in terms of Article 48 of the Constitution…
Siddaramaiah said such a bill can be enacted only in "Hitler's regime" and not in democracy. "Is yours a Hitler's regime ?" he asked.
The BJP Government, he charged, was thrusting "vegetarian culture" on the people, adding, if the bill was passed, the price of mutton per kg would shoot up to Rs 1,000 from the present Rs 260 or so.
By this act, those dependent on the products such as shoes, leather, belts, nail polish, films, buttons and other beef products would lose their jobs. "You are making their life miserable", he said.As several opposition members flayed the bill in the debate that saw sparks fly, Siddaramaiah cautioned it would create "disturbance" in society and have an adverse impact on harmony.
Defending the bill, C T Ravi (BJP) said there would be severe shortage of milk in Karnataka in future if the current rate of cow slaughter continued in the State….
Qamarul Islam (Congress) said the bill would create "hatred" among different communities, leading to "law and order problems". Several opposition members argued it poor eat beef as this meat is affordable and inexpensive at around Rs 60 per kg, compared to chicken and mutton. The choice should be left to the people, they said…
Shymal Barua,
[[If you don´t want to eat beef I respect that but you cannot prohibit somebody who wants.]]
You must be smoking something really potent to be seeing people being prohibited from eating beef or pork or whatever else they want to eat (except perhaps their fellow human beings).
Coming to Vedic Hindus eating beef, there were also child marriages and Sati happening less than a century ago. Should we go back to that just because our ancestors were doing it?
Please grow up!!
It is a fact that beef eating was mentioned in Rig Veda, the oldest pre Hinduism Vedic literature. The cow slowly became a sort of currency in India, Gau Dhan as it was called. As Vedic religion changed to Hinduism and the ancient civilization became more mature if not corrupt, Hindus, the upper caste Hindus started venerating the cows and beef eating almost vanished from the upper strata of caste hierarchy. The depressed castes with their familial trade associated with labor continued to eat beef in India.
Democracy doesn´t means dictatorship of majority. Democracy means respecting belief, personal ideas, religion of minority. If you don´t want to eat beef I respect that but you cannot prohibit somebody who wants. In India exist theocracy, not democracy. Ninety percent of the vile comments against the author show how the religion of the majority still have big influence on Indian society.
Is the Holy Cow the same as the Golden Calf in the Old Testament where we find it as a idol of Baal worship? Just saying…
Kudos to Meena for opening the lid off the Pandora's box and hitting the theocrats where it hurts the most; 168 comments and counting; seems there's gonna be another mutiny over eating beef and pork.
Pls grow up!!!
.
As the president, chairman and the sole member of Hindu Jaag Gaya Hai Baki Sab So Jao (HJHBSJ) rights group, I denounce this anti Hindu vitriolic essay in vehement terms and I demand Outlook Magazine to issue an apology for publishing this essay. If Outlook Magazine refuses to issue an apology in next edition, I publicly announce that I willstart fast unto death at Jantar Mantar on 01.04.2012.
yhwh,
Chairman,
HJHBSJ
lol
And Zafar bhai, I forgot to add an important point. In the old city area of Hyderabad, Hindus and Christians who eat pork need to come to the new city area to buy it, far off from their homes because Muslim dominated areas won't allow pork shops in their colonies. So much for Muslim tolerance!
[[Except that Muslims won't stop non-Muslims from eating pork.]]
Really Zafar bhai? Please do not talk about the "tolerance" of Muslims; everyone by now knows about it. Just when have Hindus stopped people from eating beef - have you ever been? The issue here is not the right to eat beef, but making a display out of it. What if a pork festival was held in the old city of Hyderabad? Or Lucknow or Delhi? Let's see how tolerant Muslims are.
An interesting article on internet:
"Both the Marxist and Missionary Mafia actively invoke the name of Dr. B.R. Ambedkar and urge Dalits to treat them as confidants and friends. Their history of India is one where Brahmins devised a social order designed only to oppress Dalits and that at various points, external aggressors came to India to emancipate Dalits. In this phony history enterprise, bigoted genocidal maniacs like Aurangzeb and Tipu Sultan become heroes and their religion, a religion of benignity and love.
However, it appears doubtful that the Dalit leadership or intellectual class has actually read what Dr. Ambedkar wrote about Islam:
"Hinduism is said to divide people and in contrast Islam is said to bind people together. But this is only a half-truth. For Islam divides as inexorably as it binds. Islam is a close corporation and the distinction that it makes between Muslims and non-Muslims is a very real, very positive and very alienating distinction. The brotherhood of Islam is not the universal brotherhood of man. It is the brotherhood of Muslims for Muslims only. There is a fraternity but its benefit is confined to those within that corporation. For those who are outside the corporation there is nothing but contempt and enmity." [Thoughts on Pakistan, Dr. B.R. Ambedkar, 1940]"
And this is just by way of a small illustration. Little wonder that they are being preyed upon by the likes of Owaisi who had a “role” to play in the riots that ensued during the Beef “festival.” Perhaps Ambedkar was and remains till today, the only Dalit intellectual in the truest sense. His criticism of Brahmins and the Hindu society was rooted in an accurate, wide, and honest reading of history, his own experiences and reflection. But the period since his death gave birth to a history that can only be called toxic brainwashing.
The real issue is the disturbing fact that the Dalit students had to eat beef as a way to assert their identity, a very portentous event that shows yet again the extent of the schism that has been driven by the Marxist Mafia within Hindu society. And it’s not just with Dalits: every single group that seeks to assert its identity today does it by defining it in terms of an opposition to the other. This is again a device pioneered, perfected, and injected into the system by the Marxists: Females versus Males, Brahmins versus Dalits, Muslims verus Hindus, Christians verus Hindus, Dravidians versus Aryans… The idea is to assert identity by emphasizing the so-called irreconcilable differences, a surefire way, in the long run, to tear the nation into pieces.
And yet, not very distant in the past were people like Gandhi, and Patel who sought out and worked with the Dalits in a spirit of reconciliation, sought their forgiveness and tried to earn their goodwill with genuine feeling for their plight and an honest desire to uplift them. Thus it’s no surprise that thanks yet again to the Left, the Dalits came to regard the term Harijan as an insult, adopted the term Dalit to define themselves, and developed a passionate dislike for Gandhi.
Why not a pork festival in the Old City in Hyderabad .... The Beef Festival is certainly the brainchild of mischief-mongers ....... who I'm sure pose as academics involved in NGO activity for the depressed classes. Such incidents help them showcase that inequality of the castes is present in India (though actually there is a considerable improvement in that arena) and avail themselves of the cash from foreign foundations/businesses/donors. NGO activity in many areas has become a profession (a profitable activity for the full-time activists/a good side-business for the part-time).A Masters in Social Work (MSW) has beome a very sought after qualification,though not essential for these jobs. The students in this case were just pawns used by the actual brains .....
Beef fests/ Pork fests/ any such activities are deplorable and the police must arrest the original brains behind them (of course the students need to be left alone,they were just poor souls influenced by jaundiced minds)
How about the right of of others to hurl abuse at you, your parents and your children.
I'd gladly welcome any non violent verbal abuse (except for the children part) . Adults must be capable of handling abuse and it generally shows the abusers in poor light. Pope, Muhammad, religion, God, food taboos etc.. are all open to debate and discussion.
This is just the start. You are going to see a lot of beef eating festivals all over the country. I like it and would be glad if they introduce pork too into it. Hindutvadis instead of whining should take the lead in organising them. After all Veer Savarkar wanted all Hindus to eat beef.
Pradeep Singh,
>> How about using some abusive language aganist your mother, Pope, and Mohammed.
Do you come to this forum just to spew your mindless filth? It seems all you want to do is to make an idiot of yourself!
>>>>Bharat Paul "Only for ignorants like you.. Paul is Bengali Hindu last name.."
Really Paul as oppsed to Pal!
In any case even if you were born a Hindu, you are a collaborator to the cause of the Hindu hating fascists.
Shyamal Barua [[I appreciate her courage in taking on to Hindutva-vadis on this issue head on, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading the article, including the offensive language which is required to change the general mindset of caste Hindus who always look down upon dalits, christians and muslims for eating beef.]] How about using some abusive language aganist your mother, Pope, and Mohammed?
That will change your filthy mindset.
Selvan>>>Selvan, Boston, United States
"University that too (I believe) a government funded one is a public place and Dalit students have every right to demand the food they want served in their hostels. "
You want free for all and you want riots. That is what you want.
Isn't it ironical that Meena Kundaswamy finds a hero in BR Ambedkar and is hell bent to destory Ambedkar's dream. If Dalits are finding their separate identity in beef, I don't think we can ever see the obliration of caste system.
Except that Muslims won't stop non-Muslims from eating pork.
The beef eating issue is more along the lines of tearing up a Koran - which is how it's dealt with in North India. (iow, with violence.)
I'm unsure what the legal situation is in Andhra, but it clearly looks like a bunch of people are picking fights or defending turf and it all has very little to do with cows or diet. jmho.
Shyamal Barua
[[I appreciate her courage in taking on to Hindutva-vadis on this issue head on, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading the article, including the offensive language which is required to change the general mindset of caste Hindus who always look down upon dalits, christians and muslims for eating beef.]]
Another Hindu-hating commie pops out of the woodwork!! No wonder illegal Bangladeshi Muslim immigrants are swamping WB like locusts. The day is not far off when these closet Islamists would be dragged out of their homes and lynched by these very guests after Friday prayers for not being Muslim.
Now that you've established your credentials as someone who likes people being jolted out of their mindsets, why don't you write another offensive article that carries even more vile language which is required to change the mindset of Muslims who look down upon people who eat pork?
On the face of it, Meena's mother Vasanta Kandaswamy is clearly wronged. She does seem to be academically very well accomplished and the treatment meted out to her in regard to promotions seem prejudiced. She appears to have rubbed her seniors the wrong way.
I know of persons in similar plight. They are outspoken, loners, always itching to pick a fight, have very few friends/sympathisers, not very social, cynics, have an air of (over)confidence about their achievements, few people are willing to be seen in their company, languish in a junior post for long durations while their (incompetent) juniors overtake them in their career. BTW, the two persons I know happen to be Brahmins. So this phenomemon goes beyond caste barriers.
"It’s funny to see so much courage from someone who was tolerating physical/psychological abuses from her commie husband for six months and couldn’t see anything wrong with it during that period."
Is it that Meena, having failed to give it back to her commie ex-husband, is taking it out on upper caste Hindus? Throw in BJP and Modi and she gets the right platform, outlook, to peddle it. All her marital suffering has not gone waste. She has got the vicarious pleasure of offending her bete-noire with her offensive articles, has been in limelight, and got paid for that.
An earlier link I had posted suggested that violence was started by ABVP members. This link suggests otherwise
"It was past midnight on Sunday when the organisers of the festival located one of the students who strongly opposed inclusion of beef in the menu and stabbed him. They also torched a media van deployed at the university for covering the beef festival. Early on Monday, the protesting students set on fire a state road transport bus passing through the campus."
Given the inconsistent details, it's clearly unfair to blame ABVP for starting the violence, till more facts emerge.
At first Sashi Tharoor got into trouble for trivializing the "Holy Cow", and now Meena Kandaswamy called for "Aa baiil mujhe maar".
I appreciate her courage in taking on to Hindutva-vadis on this issue head on, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading the article, including the offensive language which is required to change the general mindset of caste Hindus who always look down upon dalits, christians and muslims for eating beef.
Good job, and keep it up, Meena.
To Mr. K.Madhu who might not be the most informed person commenting here- 1)//All over the world people eat beef// Actually, PORK is the most popular meat around the world,followed by pultry and THEN Beef. SO why not a Pork eating festival then?Everyone here knows why that shall not happen in Universities in India. Look,It is just silly to create a tamasha like this when you can happily eat pork or beef or for that matter,even a dog in a private setting. : ) 2)//Even vedic aryans killed cows in yagnas and ate beef.// First, the word is arya not aryan.Second,please provide the exact reference from whichever scripture you are basing this childish allegation on.I repeat what I stated in my earlier post-There is no credible evidence to even allege that Beef-eating or even meat-eating ,was the norm or encouraged in vedic times. 3)// First beef is cheap, it is healthy, people all over the world eat, and it is economical. // This is an oxymoron. If it is cheap beef,it is remarkably unhealthy.If it is healthy ,then it will be expensive.Pork with the fat removed is far healthier and has a much higher nutritional value. Pacific Islanders breed pigs and pork is staple food there.They will tell you & they believe strongly that they are the best rugby union players in the world primarily because they eat a lot of pork & are hence big & strong. Contradicting arguments exist too.In india for example,the jats of haryana are lacto-vegetarians.Atleast 95% of them don't eat meat of any kind and certainly not beef. They are the best sportspersons in India by far.So don't have a blinkered,rigid postion on diets please. But Does this really even matter?Eat it(beef),by all means.But what these students have done or atleast attempted to do is very much like the daft-BURN A QURA'AN DAY. Hating islam doesn't make you a better christian,similiarly if you believe in the birth based caste system-which is not the most intelligent thing to do-then hating the people who you call "Brahmins" doesn't make you a better self-proclaimed "Dalit".
It is not Hindu vs dalits. Please remember dalits are also Hindus. I have been eating beef for last 42 years in US. It took me couple of attempts to enjoy beef hambergers and stakes. All over the world people eat beef. Even vedic aryans killed cows in yagnas and ate beef. Cow is a grass eating animal much healthier than a chicken and pork. The infulence of jainism and Buddism made India more vegetarian. India slowly industrialising, and people moving away from cattle plowing the land and renting Tractors on hourly basis. Milk giving cows are economical for small farmers, but bulls and non-milk giving vcows are a burden. The economics are forcing small farmer not able to feed these animals for 365 days and at times he had problem in feeding his own children. Also goat/lamb meet has become beyond reach for many poor Hindus. If someone want to eat beef why that is a problem to ABVP of OU. First beef is cheap, it is healthy, people all over the world eat, and it is economical. Some urban business community who have no clue about the rural economy want to impose their arrogant habits in the name of religion To Mr. K.Madhu who might not be the most informed person commenting here- 1)//All over the world people eat beef// Actually, PORK is the most popular meat around the world,followed by pultry and THEN Beef. SO why not a Pork eating festival then?Everyone here knows why that shall not happen in Universities in India. Look,It is just silly to create a tamasha like this when you can happily eat pork or beef or for that matter,even a dog in a private setting. : ) 2)//Even vedic aryans killed cows in yagnas and ate beef.// First, the word is arya not aryan.Second,please provide the exact reference from whichever scripture you are basing this childish allegation on.I repeat what I stated in my earlier post-There is no credible evidence to even allege that Beef-eating or even meat-eating ,was the norm or encouraged in vedic times. 3)// First beef is cheap, it is healthy, people all over the world eat, and it is economical. // This is an oxymoron. If it is cheap beef,it is remarkably unhealthy.If it is healthy ,then it will be expensive.Pork with the fat removed is far healthier and has a much higher nutritional value. Pacific Islanders breed pigs and pork is staple food there.They will tell you & they believe strongly that they are the best rugby union players in the world primarily because they eat a lot of pork & are hence big & strong. Contradicting arguments exist too.In india for example,the jats of haryana are lacto-vegetarians.Atleast 95% of them don't eat meat of any kind and certainly not beef. They are the best sportspersons in India by far.So don't have a blinkered,rigid postion on diets please. But Does this really even matter?Eat it(beef),by all means.But what these students have done or atleast attempted to do is very much like the daft-BURN A QURA'AN DAY. Hating islam doesn't make you a better christian,similiarly if you believe in the birth based caste system-which is not the most intelligent thing to do-then hating the people who you call "Brahmins" doesn't make you a better self-proclaimed "Dalit".
Outlook allows Report Abuse link for comments for offensive posts. With these kind of offensive articles, it needs to add it to the the actual articles also. The article leaves really bad taste in the mouth.
Meena Kandasamy
A few issues earlier I was carried away by your personal experience with marital violence and was indeed sympathetic .But now, after reading this article interpersed with rhetoric and polemics I wonder whether your narration of personal experience was true or it was embellished with poetic licenses and exaggerations and selective ommissions.
You seem a wanna be Arundhati Roy seeking famoushood through provocations and controversies while following in her foot steps to jump from literature in to activism. Obviously the Outlook provides platform for every Arundhati Roy who can sell more magazines through provocative writings and at the same time prove the neo liberal credentials of the magazine.
I am a Hindu. I enjoy going to stakehouses. And I know other Hindus who also like beef. But I also feel religious sensitivities of millions of other Hindus who do not eat beef for religious reasons. Even millions of Jews and Muslims eat Kosher and Halal food for religious reasons. Muslims do not eat pork. Do you make fun of people's religious beliefs? Should we ridicule the eaters of Halal and Kosher food? Does secularism mean offending religious beliefs of others?
I refuse to acknowledge the beef-fest as an act of Dalit assertion. ( How many dalits told you that beef is their staple food that they could not eat because of dietary dictat of upper caste Hindus?) Instead it is a deliberate act of offending religious sentiment of millions of Hindus. ( You should be aware how rioters provoked mobs by throwing beef and pork at temples and mosques during communal riots).
Even the sworn liberals take cultural sensitivities quite seriously. You displayed total insensitivities. Also you are raising totally irrelevant issues linking Hindutwa, Modi. Gujarat riots and veternary hospitals for cows.
Let me quote from your article: " There cannot be a shred of doubt that in a racist nation which advertises vaginal skin-lightening creams, the large, naive eyes and flawless complexion make the cow an attractive mother." Is this the kind of expression you use? And you call yourself a poet and a secular and a liberal? (Also I cannot believe that a national magazine like Outlook allows its authors to go overboard with utterly offensive language e.g. a university hostel mess was not Sankara math...; bovine sex appeals etc.. )
In any case, Arundhati Roy despite my personal differences with her opinion and writings writes elegant English. Instead of aping her offensive approach please learn a thing or two from her about writing better prose.
Let's eat, drink and be merry...
There is a perpetual effort to keep the Hindus divided in India- the BEEF FESTIVAL is such an effort- ELSE why not allow "RICE BEER FESTIVAL" or OPIUM FESTIVAL. Hindus in India are facing prosecution where ever the MINORITIES have become MAJORITY.
-- KASHMIR situation requires no elaboration.
-- MIZOS have declared that MIZORAM is for Christains and evicted everyone else.
-- NAGAs who are again Christians blockaded Manipur which is predominently HINDU for more than 100 days and the Govt did not do anything.
Ref 145
Mr Rao,
I think the last 2 paragraphs was the authors attempt at being funny as well as thumbing her nose at Hindutva politics, but it ended up being sarcastic and mean distracting the readers from the crux. I also think there is latent hostility against Indian men for being momma's boy, which I think most of us are. But when I spoke about PATRIARCHY, I was referring to quote by Michel Foucalt at the start of the article talking about exposing the institutions that oppress. According to the author that institution in India is Hindutva which I termed Hindu patriarchy. Please don't take the definition of patriarchy literally. As Bell Hooks says, Patriarchy has no gender.
Ref 141/D--74 Shri Harish K :
Numerous references were made to the term PATRIARCHY in Shri Harish's write-up from which the following debatable propositions emerge. They make one sit up and take notice of . They are :
(i) Hinduism is different from Hindu Patriarchy. "Hindu Patriarchy" is unacceptable to him because, in his view it preserves casteism,sexism, intolerance and hatred. It rationalises hierarchy in Hindu socity. And he suggests that Ms Meena Kandasamy is also AGAINST HINDU PATRIARCHY.
(ii) "Muslim,Sikh & Christian Patriarchy in India has gained recognition from Hindu Patriarchy "--Harish.
(iii) "But when we as Hindus show more outrage over the killing of cow as opposed to lynching of dalits it is the fault of patriarchy which sees life of cow over a human being. "--Harish.
And these propositions do surprise the reader. Here the villain of the piece is Patriarchy. And how and where does this "Patriarchy" creep in ? And what is "Patriarchy"?
The Dictionary meaning of the term "Patriarchy" is :
-A community of related families under the authority of a patriarch: the patriarchal system.
And a Patriarch is "One who governs his family by paternal right " .
Harish believes that Like him Ms Meena Kandasamy has also questioned Hindu Patriarchy .
I AM NOT SO SURE .
For Ms Meena appears to be making reference not to Patriarchy but to the power a mother wields on her progeny.
" Men take pride in being mummy's boys, but it is high time that Hindutva organisations and secular state-run Universities stop being swayed by bovine sex appeal, step out of their Oedipus complex and remind themselves at least the fertile ones are only mothers of calves "--- Ms MeenaKandasamy.
In any case, one should congratulate BOTH the organisers of the "Beef Festival" as well as Ms Meena kandasamy for their success in achieving what they really wanted to :
PROVKE A TOTALLY AVOIDABLE CONTROVERSY, RAISE A RUCKUS AND
GLEEFULLY ATTAIN SOME NOTORIETY.
I wonder whether this article wasn't intended to divert readers' attentionn from the far more serious issue of controversial defense purchases through Vectra / Tatra Sipox companies discussed in another article in this very issue of Outlook.
In any case, wittingly or unwittingly, that exactly seems to have been the net result of Kandasamy's piece.
138 D
The fact that she complains about being a woman explains all.
The feminists are a menace to the nation.
anothe bullshit veom spewing anti article....just tgalk about eating pork like this... let me answer the blog in one sentence...just like one shud not kill someone for eating beef, one shud not eat beef to offend someone...
Meena Kandasamy is not Arundhati roy. Roy is against capitalism whereas Kandaswamy is against Hindu patriarchy. While I believe capitalism as a limited economic model with stringent checks and balance is preferable to any other model, it can surely take the form of monster when applied to whole of social & political life limiting the accessibility of government & judiciary to only the powerful & rich (industrialists, goons, politicians etc) as we see in U.S.A. I concur with Meena Kandasamy’s questioning of Hindu patriarchy. Just like in Pakistan, there is Muslim patriarchy & in US, there is white patriarchy, in India, there is Hindu patriarchy. Hindu patriarchy is not Hinduism. Without the complete destruction of patriarchy, there can be no Hindus. It is this institution which preserves casteism, sexism, intolerance, hatred. For me as a Hindu, all life is equal. But when we as Hindus show more outrage over the killing of cows as opposed to lynching of dalits, it is the fault of the patriarchy which sees the life of cow over a human being. How many of us have servants we look down upon, give them separate utensils to eat, and make them sit on floor while we sit in chairs. How many of us look down upon those who collect our trash. How many of us search brides & grooms of the same caste since we see people of other castes as not our equal. How is this Hinduism if we don’t treat others equally. What gives us the right to dictate what others eat, how others dress, how one should speak and write. All this is Hindu patriarchy & not Hinduism. When this author defends the rights of Dalits to consume beef based on economic circumstances, the totally unrelated pork question is brought to divert the topic. Again there should be no regulating of foods to accommodate religious patriarchy. Muslim, Sikh & Christian patriarchy in India has gained recognition from Hindu patriarchy. Where RSS, Deoband heads, Roman Catholics, other Christian clergy, Sikh clergy concur unequivocally is to keep their flocks together and to keep them from mingling with other castes and religions. Uniform civil code is against their interest as it dilutes their power over the flock. Salman Rushdie was right when he asked the likes of congressmen and Akhilesh yadav ( both of whom are products of Hindu patriarchy) not to succumb to Muslim clergy. What they ended up doing was treat Muslims as one monolithic unit as opposed to individuals with same socio-economic problems as Hindus. In effect they ended up legalizing the power of Muslim clergy over the Muslim population. Hindu patriarchy supporting Muslim patriarchy.
>> The letter from Meena's mother to President Kalam complaining of how shabbily she was treated at the Indian Institute of Technoloy, Madaras, because of her being a "Backward Class woman", may provide a backdrop to Meena's anger.
Everyone can give reasons/excuses/justifications for their "anger". I'm sure some people understood the "anger" of the people who flew planes in WTC too.
I read most of the letter written by Meena's mom, and she likely had legitimate grievances, though it's unfair to arrive at conclusions without hearing the other side. In the parts that I read though, there was no evidence of caste being a factor; sounded more like nepotism. She is the one in fact, who talks about caste, not only for herself, but by listing out politicians and organizations supporting her.
The letter from Meena's mother to President Kalam complaining of how shabbily she was treated at the Indian Institute of Technoloy, Madaras, because of her being a "Backward Class woman", may provide a backdrop to Meena's anger.
>> but does that mean that the beef festival organisers have no valid issues
They have valid demands, as I've repeatedly pointed out. The "argument" (not much really) was about something else.
>> Its a university, not a public place to enforce your rights.
Students should be able to protest and demand their rights in a university. In fact, universities, with their more open environment, and centers of debate and new ideas (hopefully), should be centers of this. Given that it's not a public place, outsiders should not have the same privileges, but students should certainly have them.
>> People are bound by rules and regulations of that campus.
Yes. But do the universities disallow protest?
>> If university does not allow beef and you still want it, go to some other university.
University does not offer beef in the menu. Does it disallow a beef festival? And if you want one, should you not be able to make a demand for it, instead of going to a different university?
And frankly, if university places stupid restrictions on protest, it would not be illegitimate to break some restrictions and protest. I know it's a very fine line, but we have all protested against something we felt about, in the process, breaking some laws. During Mandal agitation, we protested, and took out rallies. In some areas, probably sec 144 and likes were present, and despite our efforts, I'm sure we hindered the traffic.
Universities and govts need to provide space for protests that don't trouble others (they can be offensive), and are non-violent.
The university has a right to disallow beef. However, that consideration should be based on factors such as health, affordability, number of students demanding it, etc. If some people don't like that others are eating beef, it is their problem.
>> There are universities which do not allow non-veg. Are we going to hold a non-veg festival there after giving authorities one year notice?
This is a valid point, and frankly, I don't know. I'm guessing that universities like AMU and Jamia shall probably not allow pork. Broadly, I would argue that people should be allowed to eat what they want. However, in such places, where traditionally, some kinds of foods have been disallowed, I'm not sure how to support this right for people who might want a change in menu.
>> University is a place for learning
Learning is a lot more than reading books. Learning to respect different food habits of people is also learning.
>> we can have book festivals but this beef festival has nothing to do with rights of dalits - its is pure politics.
Of course it is politics. Politics is part of universities. Nothing wrong in that.
Who the hell are Christians to represent Dalits?Are they the owners of Dalits,the way the whites in America treated the blacks?A Dalit who converts to Christianity,is just a Christian and no more a Dalit.Converted Christians are playing the biggest fraud by calling themselves as Dalits.Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar was clear and catagorical that Dalits should leave the Hindu fold,but was emphatic that Dalits should embrace a religion born in India and not a religion which has come outside, like Islam or Christianity.It was with this conviction that Dr Ambedkar organised conversion of Dalits to Buddhism at a function in Nagpur.With this historic background,Dalits should choose to convert to Buddhism,if they want to leave the Hindu fold and not to Christianity.Our constitution does not recognise a caste called Dalit Christian.And will the Dalits be saved from caste discriminations once they embrace Christianity?Are not Dalit Christians made to sit in separate segments in a Church?Can a Dalit ever become a priest in the Christian soceity?And why are there separate burial grounds for Dalits in Christian cemeteries?Will an upper caste Christian marry a Dalit Christian?Dalits should ponder over the fact that conversion to Christianity does not bring them emancipation from caste prejudices that they suffer in the Hindu soceity.Let the Dalit soceity realise that Christians masquerading as Dalits will never live amongst the Dalits in a Basti,the way Mahatma Gandhi lived in Harijan bastis.For Christians ,Dalits are just slaves,the way black Christians were treated by their white masters.A Dalit who becomes a Muslim is just a Muslim and no more a Dalit.Likewise,a Dalit who embraces Christianity is only a Christian and no more a Dalit.All these Christians who are imposing themselves to represent the Dalit soceity should be asked to take care of their own soceity and leave the Dalits to make their own decisions for upliftment.The startnig of a Dalit Chamber of Commece is just one shining example to show that Dalits have their own intrinsic strength for alround growth.
[The problem is not beef eating in itself but making a festival of it. If anyone wants to eat beef he can do so at his home or in the restaurants where it is available…Why make a public tamasha?]
I guess they’re making a series of points. Whether wisely or not is debatable.
[This is her mom's letter to the president complaining of caste discrimination in the IIT where she states that she belongs to the OBC. www.scribd.com/doc/19460058/Prof-Vasantha-Letter]
What happened to her mother is cruel and horrifying. No wonder she is angry.
WIAN
[Seculars frequently like to claim that BJP/RSS/ABVP/VHP, etc don't represent/speak for Hindus, and that's a fair point. But fail to extend the same logic to other religious/caste organizations/parties.]
And that also a fair point. I was agreeing with you. (oh God….head spinning….aaj suraj kahan se nikla…)
[Maybe Dalit organizations have wide support amongst Dalits. But that doesn't mean that all or most Dalits in OU supported this festival, or even care for beef on the menu. Most of them likely want to work like the rest, and get a job once a graduate.]
Also possibly true – but does that mean that the beef festival organisers have no valid issues? Logically that does not necessarily follow. Regards
Kandasamy, in an attempt to sound principled, spews venom against Brahmins, Hindus, cows mothers, Hindutva, Narendra Modi etc. It’s funny to see so much courage from someone who was tolerating physical/psychological abuses from her commie husband for six months and couldn’t see anything wrong with it during that period. Off course, she conveniently wrote a sympathy seeking essay immediately after that. Hence one always wonders what part of her article is genuine and what part is an attempt to grab attention.
Its a university, not a public place to enforce your rights.
This is strange. University that too (I believe) a government funded one is a public place and Dalit students have every right to demand the food they want served in their hostels.
It is nothjing but politics of hindu hating low lifes like Kancha Illiah and Kandasamy.
>>Given that the students had tried the legitimate means to achieve what I consider very legitimate demands, they were justified in holding the festival.
Its a university, not a public place to enforce your rights. People are bound by rules and regulations of that campus. If university does not allow beef and you still want it, go to some other university. There are universities which do not allow non-veg. Are we going to hold a non-veg festival there after giving authorities one year notice? University is a place for learning, we can have book festivals but this beef festival has nothing to do with rights of dalits - its is pure politics.
If true, it shows that Meena is a liar, out for cheap publicity. The credibility of every other piece she wrote becomes zilch.
Yes. Many of the well known Dalit activists like Meena Kandasamy, Kancha Ilaiah are not Dalits but belong to Other Backward Castes. This is her mom's letter to the president complaining of caste discrimination in the IIT where she states that she belongs to the OBC. www.scribd.com/doc/19460058/Prof-Vasantha-Letter
>> Why kill for a cow, when you aren’t born of one?
was it ok then to kill for the hindu mothers who were mercilessly burnt to death in Godhra ?
While various relevant factors are being discussed, let us not forget the violent and aggressive history of Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP). It was involved in Delhi campus violence, it ransacked a missionary school in Bhopal and it was accused of being involved in the murder of a professor. Sadhvi Pragya was a member and rose to become a state secretary. I do not support the beef festival, but we do need to worry about these violent right wing gangs of thugs. There are several of them besides the ABVP.
The problem is not beef eating in itself but making a festival of it.
If anyone wants to eat beef he can do so at his home or in the restaurants where it is available.
Why make a public tamasha?
I think it also has to do with ritual cleanliness, the use of different cooking utensils and so on; the use of moral equivalency in the write-up is unfortunate (a comparision of the past with the present); finally, so is the use of generalization, even as rhetoric (is she acquainted with all her accused, or is she a trained psychologist/psychiatrist, to assert an Oedipal epidemic?). To carry her logic to its ultimate conclusion, nothing in thsi world, save a man's mother, is worth defending (killing, of couse, represents an unacceptable extreme).
>>>>K. Madhu
Hyderabad, India
Come over to Bihar/UP/MP and try and do that and then see what happens to you.
It is not Hindu vs dalits. Please remember dalits are also Hindus. I have been eating beef for last 42 years in US. It took me couple of attempts to enjoy beef hambergers and stakes. All over the world people eat beef. Even vedic aryans killed cows in yagnas and ate beef. Cow is a grass eating animal much healthier than a chicken and pork. The infulence of jainism and Buddism made India more vegetarian. India slowly industrialising, and people moving away from cattle plowing the land and renting Tractors on hourly basis. Milk giving cows are economical for small farmers, but bulls and non-milk giving vcows are a burden. The economics are forcing small farmer not able to feed these animals for 365 days and at times he had problem in feeding his own children. Also goat/lamb meet has become beyond reach for many poor Hindus. If someone want to eat beef why that is a problem to ABVP of OU. First beef is cheap, it is healthy, people all over the world eat, and it is economical. Some urban business community who have no clue about the rural economy want to impose their arrogant habits in the name of religion.
Secularism involves ONLY Hindu bashing and asking ONLY Hindus to change their traditions.
TAKE IT TO THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION SINCE YOU LIKE FESTIVALS SO MUCH AND TAKE DELIGHT IN YOUR HATE HINDU CAMPAIGN
Why not have an opium festival?
Or insult prophet mohammed festival?
Or incest festival?
Why not have an OPIUM festival?
Or even a cannibalism festival?
Vinod Mehta and his ilk are disgusting creatures.
They will sell their mothers to earn an extra penny. The concepts of integrity and dignity are alien to these creatures from the gutter.
>> "accusing Mr Modi..... of ''sparking off'' the ''state aided slaugher'' of Gujarati Muslims is SLANDER."
It is not slander. Based on what is known, it is a justifiable accusation. The fact that some prosecutariol mechanisms have been pre-empted does not mean he has been exonerated.
Right!! Just an analysis of this 'article'- 1)Having read the ancient scriptures and D.N Jha's book filled with bogus cant, let me assure everyone reading this that -there is no credible evidence to even allege that Beef-eating or even meat-eating ,was the norm or encouraged in vedic times.I am not religious but I have as much opinion as I have information when it comes to religion & I can point to several verses in the dharmik scriptures that talk about respect for bipeds and quadrupeds which even the author of this article takes digs at.So she contradicts herself a couple of times here. 2)Why do I get the feeling that the author of this article thinks that hinduism & buddhism are different? : ) Buddha was hindu just like jesus was a jew.People can debate this endlessly but if you are remotely rational you will see this.In present-day Nepal where the Buddha was born & around the Bihar-Nepal border where I have been several times,the locals do NOT distinguish between Sanatan Dharma & Bauddha Dharma.All the basic concepts are the same.Ms. Kandasamy may not like that.Did the buddha eat pork is debatable but they(buddhists) were not beef-eaters,never have been. ; ) 3)A large minority portion of the article consists of matters irrelevant to the issue being raised here.What do vaginal skin lightening creams have to do with the given issue? 4)Overall it is a pointless article with factual errors & I don't think too many people are going to take the author seriously.
This piece from Ms Kandaswamy suggests that she is suffering from paranoia and persecution complex.But she is not a fool or else she would not have invited so many comments, mostly adverse. She needs attention and she got plenty. Eating beef/pork, using special creams at unmentinable parts of the body and becoming bovine-lover in a special way is better left to individual's need and choice. Why to make a fuss and link these with individuals, caste or religion. The whole thing gives an unwholesome feeling.
>> But the simple and logical way to do that was to make a representation of the concerned authorities, and make such a request.
Actually, it seems that the Dalit organizations did do something like this
www.sunday-guardian.com/investigation/the-beef-eaters-of-osmania
The beef festival held at the New Research Scholars' Hostel was preceded by yearlong efforts by several Dalit students' bodies to include beef in the non-vegetarian menus.
Given that the students had tried the legitimate means to achieve what I consider very legitimate demands, they were justified in holding the festival.
>> Though that got us Mayawati last time
But not this time. And that's only in one state. What about say, Paswan in Bihar, or Ramdas Athvale in Maharashtra?
But that's not the point. Seculars frequently like to claim that BJP/RSS/ABVP/VHP, etc don't represent/speak for Hindus, and that's a fair point. But fail to extend the same logic to other religious/caste organizations/parties.
Maybe Dalit organizations have wide support amongst Dalits. But that doesn't mean that all or most Dalits in OU supported this festival, or even care for beef on the menu. Most of them likely want to work like the rest, and get a job once a graduate.
While we are obsessed with beef-fest here, heres some more cud to chew dear Meena
Suspended for chanting Hindu prayer
Nice post by Mr.Rajesh Chary. I think it should be left to the individual's choice on what he/she eats or prefers to eat and theres nothing to feel hurt about it. But per my knowledge beef (here I mean cow meat) is not the main NV food taken even by the dalits. During nava ratri festival times, in villages normally the she-buffalos will be sacrificed and consumed, but not cows atleast in AP
They propped up pork to silence other minorities
And why is it wrong ? You cannot be selective in your criticism, no?
broken men (and women) rebelling against caste became untouchables because they were Buddhists and beef-eaters
You mean, buddhists were beef-eaters ?
Beef, being a Dalit food, was kept away from caste-Hindus and stigmatised
Well, we were told by Secu historians that it was the rise of buddhism that led to this stigmatisation. Blame it on the Buddha, dear ! Obviously, you counter argue against yourself, were you to believe secus ! :P
Modi gloats that no cow has to travel more than three kilometres to reach a health camp
Think positive, if even cows are well cared for Guj - how well the people there should've been !!
The Myth of the Holy Cow documented the problematic (and under-appreciated) history of Brahmin/Hindu beef-eating in ancient India
Not only brahmin/hindus, but the article mentions about buddhists and jains too. Werent these all-encompassing, compassionate, egalitarian philosophies that were there to counter "castist/racist" hinduism......myadam ? BTW, Akbar forbade cow slaughter in his territory, Ashoka moved one step ahead and banned all kinds of animal slaughters .... must be "racist pigs" !
Manish Jha’s film Matrubhoomi: A Nation Without Women depicted the sexual abuse of a cow by sex-starved men
Sorry, lady. We donot have enough time to watch every stupid-themed film that comes to town. Seriously you should engage in some useful activity. 'your time will be better spent.
There is no point getting offended if someone enjoys beef in all its juiceglory
Agree
Men take pride in being mummy’s boys, but it is high time Hindutva organisations and secular, state-run universities stop being swayed by bovine sex appeal, step out of their Oedipus complex and remind themselves that cows, at least the fertile ones, are only mothers of calves
Sorry, whats this buffalo saying/barfing here ? I cannot say about your dad/brothers or the "editor" who thought your crapping about personality disorders is worth publishing here, dear lady, but I can assure you that a man's relation with his mother is not what you are thinking it is ! Just imagine your father once in something you revere so much.... are you having "Boedipus"(copyrights reserved) complexes now ?
"He sparked off the state-aided slaughter of Muslims a decade ago"
Narendrabhai Modi has been exonerated of any wrong doing by several independent investigative commissions. The maximum charge he faces is of negligence and dereliction of duty when the Gujarat riots were happening. However, and I wish Ms Kandasamy reads this.. accusing Mr Modi, a 3 time Democratically elected Chief Minister, of ''sparking off'' the ''state aided slaugher'' of Gujarati Muslims is SLANDER. Indian law has very serious penalties for slander and defamation. This begs the question: What wouldn't rabid leftist demagogues do to achieve their 15 min of fame?
96 D
Anwaar, all these feminist groups seem to made of Meena -like 'victimhood', shrill, liars.
Meena, We expect a full apology from you for accusing Hindus of being sexually attracted to their own mothers and cattle. Replace ''Hindu'' with ''Muslim'' or ''Dalit'' or ''Jew'' or ''Homosexual'' and it would correctly be labelled as hate speech. Do you not understand what hate speech means? Or do you consider Hindus as less than human?
Vindo Mehta, I've give up my subscription and want my money back. I'm asking all of my friends and family to stop buying outlook. Consider this payback for the vicious anti Hindu and anti Indian campaign you've been spearheading with hateful ideologues like Ms Roy/Kandasamy etc etc..
While no one can have anything against Dalits or non-Dalits eating beef at their homes or in eating places where it is served or sold legally, one fails to approve of the methods and motives of those Dalit students of Osmania University who could think of nothing better to celebrate than a "beef eating festival", knowing that -- rightly or wrongly, logically or illogically-- the cow is object of worship for the Hindu majority. I am afraid the education these fellows were supposedly getting at the Osmania U. has been an utter waste if it hasn't taught them that social and communal harmony and national integration are far more important than them being served beef in the hostels where the preponderant majority comprises caste Hindus for whom beef is an anthema and where beef has never been served before.
There is no dobt that these Dalit students were horribly misled by narrow-minded, semi literate, self-serving politicians hankering to increase their share of Dalit votes by fair means or foul.
[Do Dalit organizations speak for the Dalits?]
Excellent point, Sir. I would say "no" if you asked me about self styled "Muslim" or "Hindu" organisations - so perhaps also for self styled 'caste' spokespersons. Perhaps it would be more honest to put these things to electoral test? (Though that got us Mayawati last time, so....)
"Because India is a Hindu state at heart despite all apparitions to the contrary" doesnt this same state subsidise Haj travels for Muslims as an example?
"He sparked off the state-aided slaughter of Muslims a decade ago" The incident which triggered the riots was the burning of coaches at Godhra station by a Muslim mob burning alive dozens of kar sevaks. Modi could perhaps have done more to prevent further rioting, but the damage was already done and he did not trigger it.
"Dalits, Adivasis, Muslims and Christians, being beef-eating minorities, cannot press for similar privileges" what? they dont have insurance and health plans? thats the same for the Hindu population as well. Everybody needs to pay for insurance/health plans etc. Next she will say Project Tiger is a Shiv Sena initiative (because they have a tiger as their emblem) and why ordinary dalits, muslims, christians etc dont have the same rights as the tiger?
"Men take pride in being mummy’s boys" tirade against men in general?
"secular, state-run universities stop being swayed by bovine sex" if universities have to be truly secular then why should they organise a beef fest when it hurts the sentiments of the other members of the Hindu community? after all secularism is about showing tolerance to everyone's religious proclivities isnt it?
Meena Kandaswamy comes across as a rabid hater of men, the majority, the state - and her article is pathetic offering no cogent arguments, rather a lot of hot air making generalised accusations. A piece of journalistic shit - even cow dung has its use - this article is a useless waste of space.
>> If their intention was to challenge the right of the ABVP to speak for them as Hindus, the Dalit organisers of the festival have shown a certain PR flair
Do Dalit organizations speak for the Dalits?
Timing seems odd. And why did Rama Rao change his complaint, why did he leave out the names of his assailants in his first complaint?
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-04-17/hyderabad/31354991_1_abvp-students-campus-bandh-c-hostel
HYDERABAD: A day after the beef festival, tension prevailed on the Osmania University (OU) campus with members of two student organisations slapping cases against each other. Rama Rao, an activist of Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP) filed an attempt to murder case against members of the festival organising committee. In retaliation, T Venkateswaralu, a member of the festival committee, lodged a complaint against some ABVP students for allegedly beating him at the Old PG hostel.
Rama Rao, a second year MA (Sanskrit) student who allegedly suffered a bleeding injury near his ribs lodged a police complaint at 2 am on Monday against two unknown persons who allegedly gagged him and injured him with a knife. Rao, however, revised his complaint and named seven members of the organising committee of the fest as assailants at around 11 am. Rama Rao was initially admitted to Gandhi Hospital and later shifted to a private hospital at Habsiguda for treatment. Around the same time, students of the festival organising committee lodged a complaint with the police accusing seven members of ABVP of attacking them the previous night. The OU police have booked cases under section 307 and SC/ST Atrocities Act respectively in the two cases.
Sounds like that 300 Ramayana hungama at Delhi University, but less esoteric.
If their intention was to challenge the right of the ABVP to speak for them as Hindus, the Dalit organisers of the festival have shown a certain PR flair.
The beef industry is alive and kicking. More carnivores-the better the business!
As with cigarettes, beef is being actively promoted couched in diatribe.
>> Meena Kandasamy is not a Dalit. She is born to upper caste parents, Vasantha Kandasamy a IIT Chennai professor is from a non Dalit caste and her father is also from a non Dalit caste
Interesting.
Wonder if NWMI is aware of this and lied themselves, or were taken for a ride.
But that's not surprising for Outlook writers.
Parthasarthy,
>> t is a fallacy to talk about GENUINE oppression - such as that faced by lower castes.
Please see comment # 94.
>> Do they have only one hostel? Why can't some hostels serve beef and other hostels not serve beef?
Don't know the system followed in OU, but not all places have a mess attached to a hostel. e.g., not sure about now, but during my time at IISc (long long ago), we had 4 messes; one exclusively veg, one veg with egg optional, one non-veg, and one mixed, where people could choose veg or non-veg option. Beef was not served in any of them.
If OU has messes attached to hostels, they can potentially have one that serves beef. However, then the charge shall be that the university is following the process of ghettoization. Professional cribbers shall always find a reason to complain.
>> Why is this such a big deal?
It is a big deal, since people who organized the beef festival wanted to make it a big deal, and the ABVP idiots were stupid to fall in their trap.
It is legitimate for some to demand that beef be part of the menu. But the simple and logical way to do that was to make a representation of the concerned authorities, and make such a request. In fact, a suggestion such as yours, that one mess should be allowed to have beef as an option, and students can choose it, if they so desire. A representation showing the number of students supporting it, and willing to pay the higher potential cost would have made sense.
Instead, they chose the provocative method of holding a festival. I don't know if they broke any laws in holding it. If not, they were within their right to hold such an event. Doesn't make it smart though, unless the idea was to hopefully elicit a violent response, and play victims.
Selvan,
I do not know anything about her caste. What you quoted is from the statement issued by the 'Network of Women in Media, India'.
Do they have only one hostel? Why can't some hostels serve beef and other hostels not serve beef? Why is this such a big deal? Frankly I think people are looking for non-issues to latch on to because the real issues are difficult to resolve.
ANWAAR ,
""The fact that she is a dalit, especially one whose work focuses on caste annihilation, linguistic identity and feminism, clearly makes her even more of a target."
It is a fallacy to talk about GENUINE oppression - such as that faced by lower castes, for eg., with feminists in the same breath. Let us stop playing ( gender ) politics.
--
Anwaar,
This is a BIG FAT LIE. Meena Kandasamy is not a Dalit. She is born to upper caste parents, Vasantha Kandasamy a IIT Chennai professor is from a non Dalit caste and her father is also from a non Dalit caste.
She probably chose the Dalit identity to get famous. Nothing wrong with that.
Will be holding "RICE BEER DRINKING" festival in at Osmania University- RICE BEER is also not served in student mess, has health benifits & is an ADIVASI & DALIT DRINK-( if in doubt visit NE states where it is consumed in large quantities even today). Will the SECUS extend same support???
Also plan to grow OPIUM in my feilds as agriculture has become extreemly non-remunerative. (why must TALIBAN alone make profit from opium trade) Fermented drinks like RICE BEER and intoxicant like OPIUM were used in India for a long time. OPIUM use has been stopped by Govt as DALITS & ADIVASIS will "GROW OPIUM POPPY" and consume it for intoxication rather than buy ALCOHOL from GOVT VENDS giving large profit to companies producing RUM, WHISKY, BRANDY, ARRACK etc. So will the DALIT & ADIVASI supporters "publish article in OUTLOOK for me too"???
>> religious matters are different from religious history.
well done .. the hair is well split ...
dont you think ?
religious matters are different from religious history.
Just to clarify , I have a lot of respect for Gandhi and was making the point just to highlight we do overlook a few things in our approach to history / historical figures , unlike meena who rakes up muck on the holy-cow ..
but I do feel it is ok as this is a comment on meena kandasamy's article which invariably is themed around sex and incest ;)
>> Secular means not connected with spiritual or religious matters
>> India is a Hindu majority country and our narrative of history should be based on Hindu view point.
read the first sentence , now read the next sentence - to make these two statement in the same response and say that it is me who doesnt make sense .. well .. not much to say there. dont you think ?
Good article.
>>>>"Indian Breivik won't take too much time to arrive if this communist hypocrisy continues."
Very well put. The secularists are pushing the limits and they will eventually force even the most moderate Hindus to take up extremist positions in self defence.
They want domination, they do not believe in peaceful co-existence.
The secular fascists pose real and present danger to peace and harmony (I was tempted to use the term secularism, but I did not because it is an import from the west which has no meaning in Bharat).
As per Network of Women in Media, India (NWMI) letter and I take it at face value, Meena Kandasami is officially Dalit. Does that mean she has a right to write for beef eating? Does this give her the carte blache to carte blanche to imply Hindus as suffering from Oedipus complex and have bestiality feeling?
The problem with her article is that she is inventing casteism in a politically motivated beef eating festival. Ambekar's criticism about caste problem was rational and the lady has no rationality in her rants. Why didn't she dicuss the pork issue? Why didn't the Dalits included the pork in the menu?
And my name is not Sidharth Shankar. Whoever he is, call the cops. Indian Breivik won't take too much time to arrive if this communist hypocrisy continues.
>> but then the same people made a hero out of Salman Rushdie! Let Muslims put up with Rushdie and let Hindus put up with Meena!
I support Rushdie to write anything and muslims to oppose his writing , challenge him with opposing ideas or thoughts , ignore him or sue him - I still think he has his right to his expression and lead a life free of fear and without a price on his head. Most importantly , I think it is not the GOIs business to ban his book and stop him from participating in events ( even a webcast for godssake ) - To say this is not making him a hero - afterall one is not saying it should be made mandatory reading in schools
The same applies for Roy and Meena Kandasamy as well ..
what I dont understand is the same secular folks who are so understanding about minority sentiments ( GOI banned satanic verses , karunanidhi banned davinci code even before it was to be published ) standing up for freedom of expression and raising hell to conitnue to have 300 Ramayanas as mandatory reading in History ( while labeling Ramayana as myth through the school years )
Should Bible be added as mandatory reading in science / evolution classes ( on how it got everything completely wrong ) - 300 Ramayanas in history classes has the same relevance - I dont support one and I dont suppor the other . Iam consistent , probably because Iam not infected by secularism .
Kalpana Bala
>>now bullock carts and ploughs are disappearing from villages, and since most of land holdings are small, farmers rent tractors, have to pay in cash and if crop fails, they fall into penury
Can you be more specific and give details of the economics involved? Both the article and other comments seem to miss this aspect
wrt the letter posted by Anwaar. The tweets mentioned in it are obnoxious and against our cultural ethos. There cant be two opinions on this. They should be condemned unreservedly.
Truly great writers and thinkers are those who are able to reach out to their opponents and have a dialogue. Ms Kandasamy on the contrary is deliberately and unduly provocative. Her articles are full of insults directed at Hinduism and she manages to alienate even people who may agree with some aspects of what she wants to say or who may have otherwise been willing to listen to her. She seems destined to preach to the converted.
>> "let me suggest an addition to your list: The right to heap abuse on prophet mohammed." I am not surprised at that suggestion coming from you! I have always supported Rushdie's right to publish Satanic Verses, and I have criticized the fatwas against Rushdie as well as against the Danish cartoonists. I myself however would never abuse either Mohammed, Rama, Jesus or Moses
>> Overall, it was an amusing read - it had the standard ingredients of A Roy and Saba naqvi tales: upper caste bashing, Modi bashing, Hindutva bashing. Plus some added masala of MK - the bestial and sexual angles
Brilliant analysis.
Outlook was not satisfied with the crap doled out by Arundhatis and Sabas. Probably their pay masters in Congress directed them to fall even further, if they wanted more imported wines and imported cheese.
It is nice to see Meena Kandasaamy defend the rights of the Dalits to eat beef and have a festival while eating beef. Her arguments wuld have had a more poerful impact if she would have also stated that she would defend the rights of Dalit Muslims (yes, such a category apparently exists though Islam is a caste-free religion) to have a festival eating pork. Afterall, Muslims too would have eaten pork sometime in their past a few hundred years ago before it was forbidden.
Secondly, if she is such a staunch believer of freedom of expression, why does she have a problem with companies that sell vaginal skin lightening products and people who use them. Just as there is a dalit market for beef burgers, there may be market for skin lightening products too. Is it her contention that only upper-caste men (and women) prefer light skin down-under?
Thirdly, what's oedepial complex got to do with "saving a cow"? Should we say that people who keep crying "save the tiger" also suffer from an oedepial complex as they are taken in by the feline charms of the big cat? So can we tell the "save the tiger" chaps that tigresses are only mothers of cubs. So we can kill them for their claws and skin?
Overall, it was an amusing read - it had the standard ingredients of A Roy and Saba naqvi tales: upper caste bashing, Modi bashing, Hindutva bashing. Plus some added masala of MK - the bestial and sexual angles. In one of her ealier articles she said the habit of men to gaze at women's breasts had its origin in the Hindu casteist practice that forbade dalit women from wearing blouses and covering their breasts. Now she says the Hindu's desire not to eat beef is tied to the fact that Hindutva's warriors find the cow attractive because of an oedepial complex. Freud would have been proud.
It seems to be the begining of end for 'Outlook' when a writer of Meena Kandasamy calibre is imposed on the hapless readers.Hope and pray that your magazine will not have a mighty fall.Why not give some juicy stuff like what goes on in the dark corners of Catholic seminaries,instead of always writing against Hindus?But,VM is a product of La Martienere.
In much of rural India, the cattle is fed the byproducts of agriculture, ie hay, cottonseed, oilcake etc. The farmers who grow vegetables also keep goats etc that eat over ripe vegetables, worm infested vegetables etc that cannot be sent to market. The cows provide milk and oxen are used to plough the field, to draw water from the well, and to drive carts. Add to this biogas plants then we have excellent environment friendly practices which suits subsistence farming which most of our agriculture is anyway. When the cows grows old, the farmers sell them to slaughter houses. What is wrong with this? Since cow slaughter is not legal in many states earlier people used to look the other way when cow or bull was slaughtered. Now with the sort of vigilantism that is afoot over "smuggling" of cows, now bullock carts and ploughs are disappearing from villages, and since most of land holdings are small, farmers rent tractors, have to pay in cash and if crop fails, they fall into penury. Earlier when they owned draught cattle even when crop failed, the farmers did not face destitution as they would not have borrowed money.
Rip
Nice, France
Mr RIP
I know how one could respond to your disgusting post, but I would not advocate stooping the level of a creature from the gutter.
>>>>"The Talibans are those who force others to follow their rules e.g. keep beards or, as in this case, don't eat beef. I can see how the article may be offensive to some, but then the same people made a hero out of Salman Rushdie! Let Muslims put up with Rushdie and let Hindus put up with Meena!"
Since you are such an enlightened liberal, and you are a keen advocate of free for all,
let me suggest an addition to your list:
The right to heap abuse on prophet mohammed.
"Bharat Paul
Your name gives the game away." @Pradip Singh
Only for ignorants like you.. Paul is Bengali Hindu last name..
Meena Kandasamy is the next Arundhati Roy wannabe and outlook seems like is promoting her that way. She is not a Dalit but born to upper caste parents and has taken up the Dalit cause to get famous.
As others have remarked, Dalits also eat pork. So it should have been a beef and pork festival.I'm against the food prejudices of the past and people should be open and broad minded to allow everyone the same rights that they wish to have (i.e to eat and be served the food of their choice). I'm sure that none of the upper caste students who oppose this beef festival would voluntarily opt out og working/living/studying in the Western countries where beef/pork et.al is served in the open and public spaces inculding university and office cafetaria.
Irreverent,
>> She's not shaking it off, but actually PROMOTING Talibanic tendencies.
Wrong! The Talibans are those who force others to follow their rules e.g. keep beards or, as in this case, don't eat beef. I can see how the article may be offensive to some, but then the same people made a hero out of Salman Rushdie! Let Muslims put up with Rushdie and let Hindus put up with Meena!
Beef has an enormous water footprint. Producing 1 kg of beef requires 15400 litres of fresh-water, in terms of feed production. Beef consumption as an essential part of diet is hardly sustainable in the world today, especially in a water-starved country like India. Vast swathes of Africa have become desertified owing to people keeping large numbers of livestock. Earlier these areas used to be much greener. This is a problem now termed as "boverty".
It is likely that Indian culture has discovered the environmental pressures of eating animal meat, and thereby abandoned it over history. Eating beaf is also harmful in terms of its cancer risks, and on the impact of greenhouse gas production.
In this context, why exactly should beef-eating be encouaged in India ? Except to rake sensitive religious sentiments ? People can go about consuming beef in private, but should this really be made into a "cause-celebre" ??
>> "Meena Kandasamy may be difficult to take for some, but we need these provocations to shake us out of our Talibanic tendencies." - Anwaar
Read the article again. Or, get someone smarter to explain it to you. She's not shaking it off, but actually PROMOTING Talibanic tendencies. Many Mullah bigots and caste apologists are enjoying the orgasm. How come you are missing the fun!?!!
>> we need these provocations to shake us out of our Talibanic tendencies.
all that is needed to shatter the illusion that seculars support for beef on menu for the sake of freedom and the necessity to shake off Talibanistic tendencies now , will be for Modi to mandate all public institutions to offer pork in their menu in celebration of dalit culture .
If he does then he will be both the provocateur as well as the taliban and seculars will be fighting for freedom on the other side .. such is the history of secular consistency .
A new leader has arrived to perpetuate the bigotry of the Mullahs and Naxals!!
I think beef eating should be made compulsory in India. It should be part of mid day meal, college hostels, hindu temples, jain temples, sikh temples and buddhist temples. moreover, the oath taking ceremony of any mp, mla shouldn't be complete without partaking the beef. and then india will become the greatest country in the world. lol
Come to think of it; Rahul Gandhi recently declared that he was a Brahmin, and Meena tells us about the tendencies of upper castes.
Is that why Rahul is still a bachelor? Next time he goes for campaigning, people should probably hide their cows.
In Jihadi and pseudosecular eyes, this Meena Kandasamy, who is supposedly a poet (she seems to have the right level of sensitivity and insight for a poet) should be worshipped as an anti Taliban crusader. If that is what she is, why does she not try her youthful aggressive energy in the home of Taliban - not Afganistan, Pakistan - the land of the pure.
>> " In implementing Hindutva, nobody outdoes Narendra Modi. He sparked off the state-aided slaughter of Muslims a decade ago, but now tries to balance his karma by conducting dental and cataract surgeries for cows. Note: Hinduism only asks of a ruler to protect cows from slaughter. While Muslim victims of the Gujarat riots still languish in relief camps, Modi gloats that no cow has to travel more than three kilometres to reach a health camp."
Very incisive but truthful! Some readers are mad at her apparent insensitivity to Hindu feelings. Some Muslim readers on another website were mad with me when I criticized Muslim students in London Metropolitan University for demanding a ban on the sale of alcohol on campus. Since the University is planning to agree to their demand, I had called it "Talibanization of England". Meena Kandasamy may be difficult to take for some, but we need these provocations to shake us out of our Talibanic tendencies.
>> By publishing this hate filled putrid article, Outlook has totally exposed the filthy fascist face of its tribe peddling Hate Hindu Crusade as a form of secularism
I find it amusing that Outlook sometimes has a stricter policy for comments than for its writers and editors.
If readers post unrelated content, it is often deleted. But in a story about a beef festival organized to provoke others, Meena finds it worthwhile to spew hatred against Modi, talk about vaginal skin-lightening creams, cows being attractive mothers, men being mummy's boys, bovine sex appeal and Oedipus complex.
The editors love it, since such hate drives more traffic, which pays for the imported wine in Mehta's cellar, and imported cheese for the editor. If Meena's articles keep providing these to Mehta, he might even loan her the editor to satisfy Meena's secret fetishes.
If Ms. Kandasamy wants to be another Arundhati Roy, at least let her learn some english. It might make her articles worth reading as a piece of fiction. This angry middle aged lady role makes her look only ridiculous ...
I do not have any problems with beef eating. I have eat it myself and like it. After all I am from Lucknow :-)
The problem arises when people want to do it in public as an act of asserting their so called political freedom. The dalits in India act like the Neo Holy Cows. If some one critisizes them he is branded anti dalit and banished. They expect that everyone should carry the burden of the supposed sins that the forbears of a "forward" Hindu commited against the dalit's forebears. Is this not a caste-hindu position? This is the real dilemma of our society today. The caste hindus can not forget their castes as they are continuously reminded of it by the pro-dalit politirati. Keeping alive the so called dalit issues is in their interest as it has become their life-blood.
Bharat Paul
Your name gives the game away.
Part of the christian converison/jihadi/pseudosecular alliance.
There are not many people who truely support freedom. So I commend Meena for writing such an article. I fully support people right to eat whatever they want to and hold celebration of such event. This is not provoking anybody but just enjoying their life and food.. If someone doesn't like it, they should just stay away from it.. There are very few things in life that one can do without offending someone or other. Girls wear jeans, Ram sena's sentiments are hurt. Muslim women dont put burkhas, mullahs' sentiments are hurt. Rushdie comes to india, some folks' sentiments are hurt. In a village, a dalit sits on horse, upper caste folks sentiments are hurt. If your sentiment is getting offended, too bad, make it strong so that it doesn't get offended. you have no right to dictate what others should do or shouldn't do.
In the beef festival case, the organizers had informed the police and administration before. So this appears to be a case of police not doing their duty. It remains to be seen, what action administration takes against the police for failing to prevent the violence.
Meena hates only Hinduism.
"Heard the Azaan. Was worth staying up :)" http://twitter.com/#!/meenakandasamy/statuses/164860998300336130
By publishing this hate filled putrid article, Outlook has totally exposed the filthy fascist face of its tribe peddling Hate Hindu Crusade as a form of secularism.
These fascists do not believe in peaceful existence.
Make no mistake about it, their agenda is complete elimination of Hinduism from its own land. For this purpose, they will ally with anyone: jihadis, maoists, pseudointellectual moronic modernists who wish to impose monoculture etc.
Dear Indians, To give a fitting reply to these so called intellectuals and secularists, who are actually self serving hate mongers in disguise.. wait till 2014.. In 2014, go to the nearest polling booth and VOTE FOR NARENDRA MODI (BJP) to become the PM. Let the voice of the Indian people speak and for once, shut up these leftist loons.
I thought the purpose of the article was to advocate acceptance of beef eating in the tolerant Indian society. But No!! Meena Kandasamy uses this article to spew venom on everything she hates- 1. Men 2. Hinduism in General 3. Non dalit hindus in particular 4. Modi (New!) 5. Truth.
From Muslim slaughter to Vaginal fairness cream to cow fornication she has injected enough keywords to keep the write up provocative for people to take notice. She even says that cow is given motherly status for its sex appeal!
I guess being not accepted by any man at every point in her life has made her a bitter woman. Her desire but failure to be accepted by men has made her jealous of every other female manifestation that men love-whether it is a female quadrupled animal, their own country or their own mothers.
27 D
" She's a disgrace to Indian writers and activists." On the contrary, she exemplifies feminist ( anti-male) activism.
Meena is found lying, misrepresenting facts and playing victim to defame entire communities in the name of activism. She's also been observed ignoring and deleting genuine questions or debates in her Twitter and Facebook accounts. I felt very sorry for her when she recounted tales of her torture at the hands of her husband, but I'm now not so sure. She's been caught red handed lying, provoking and then playing the victim. There is no reason to trust her words and every reason to doubt it. She's a disgrace to Indian writers and activists.
Yes, good question. Is Meena a Dalit or not? Let her clarify, we'd like to see her caste certificate. If she is not, I think she needs to be booked for misreporting her caste, it equals defamation of a whole community, given what hateful utter rubbish she spews in the name of Dalits.
Being a Dalit, I have to say that beef has never been a mainstay of my meals. Even those whom I know in the community do not consume beef on a regular basis or on festive occasions. Beef is often consumed by people belonging to several communities as fast food (because it is cheaply priced) rather than a delicacy. Pork on the other hand is the one that is probably closely associated with Dalit food habits but even that is eaten very rarely.
I am therefore shocked by this beef activism by Ms. Kandasamy. And being a person who eats all forms of meat, I have never faced any issue with food ever in India - maybe there are residenditial pockets which impose some restrictions but I haven't been subject to any. People simply don't have the time to bother about one's personal food habits as long as it is not imposed on another.
Ms. Kandasamy is very adept at false propaganda. A non-issue becomes an issue. A complaint becomes caste-discrimination and anything rational is simply filtered out. She loves playing victim. And with her being a person who used to vehemently counter any argument by playing the dalit card(only the weakest of weak among us resort to these measures), why has she removed all references to her dalit identity created by herself? She has changed all her personal information from being a dalit to a dalit-activist after a controversy arose over her dalit identity. So Outlook, why should one be subjected to articles written by an individual who is either not sure about her identity or has perhaps assumed a false identity to enhance the victim image ?
It will make sense only to a secular mind that singing Vande Mataram is not ok it might affect mulsim sentiments irrespective of whether many citizens think it deprives their right as a citizen - but not providing beef in a public university is not ok as it deprives some groups right to eat beef and it doesnt matter that it offends some other groups sentiments
when I read Ms.Meena's personal story I felt sorry for her - but thinking back I guess I should have felt happy for her husband considering her ability to twist known facts ( the stone pelter getting stabbed is called the killer who is driven by some pervese logic of confluence of sex and motherhood ) especially since the poor fellow never got a chance to explain himself .
" Men take pride in being mummy's boys ".
Meena is a known male hater ( as seen in her previous diatribes against the gender in general and her ex-husband in particular )
Why does Outlook not look at what she writes before she writes sh**?
Meena Kandasamy and her like are a menace for the society. She is deliberately trying to insult and provoke Hindus. The language she uses is from the gutter.
People like her want to tear the society apart. She is doing all this under the veil of 'freedom'. What a joke that is. Her behaviour is despicable.
Oultook revels in casuing gratuitous insult and offence to Hindus. That is the sick and disgusting face of its pseuodsecularism.
Vegetarianism born of compassion is something to be respected even by nonvegetarians. Such was the vegetarianism of persons like Bernard Shaw. Such is the vegetarianism upheld by Saint Thiruvalluvar who belonged to the Pariah community of ancient Tamil Nadu, in his work, Thirukkural, which is of eternal significance to mankind as far as its basic teachings are concerned. In such a context if beef eating is viewed as undesirable one cannot condemn such a standpoint summarily. What is intolerable is the way beef eating has been made out into a marker of cultural and varna identity. A person who eats beef is not necessarily a bad or base person. Another who has an aversion to beef cannot on that account alone be regarded as a better human. Let us therefore speak the language of justice and moderation and abstain from trivialising the issue of fighting caste and prejudice. I am sure there are many, many Hindus who share my view.
“food fascism” hehe, I like the term.
"tolerance means ...... ", that is rich.
I heard this whole drama was created by Congress government to divide and divert students from telangana movement. Sounds logical to me.
I am not so much of "save the cow" person, but I don't have to be to puh puh this rant.
Arundhati Roy V2.0? Nah, and you don't have to like Roy to say that.
Oops, am I being castist? or may be misogynist? You never know.
I completely disagree that Ms Kandasamy would anyday ''replace'' Ms Roy. As much as I dislike Ms Roy, I cannot help but admire her looks (back when she was young), flair, passionate activism and command of the English language. She was an enemy whom we loved to hate. She had this ability to be magically provocative anything she did with aplomb. I guess we all fell in love with her.. either as an admirer or critic. Ms Kandasamy has neither the looks, flair, acitivism nor the same command of the English language. Her writing is largely copy paste and she tries very hard to sound convicing and look sexy (check out her FB photos to see what I mean) and FAILS COMPLETELY. She doesn't inspire the same awe that Arundhati did (and still does). If anything, her writing only evokes eye rolling and gag reflexes. I hope she reads this.
Why the hell all the writters in Outlook talk about secularism by urging all the Hindus to addapt to something which they haven't doing since time immemorial.
No talks on Muslims practicing some thing else. Will their effort not help build secularism?
Will someone tell if OUTLOOK is a Congress sponserd/Pakistan Sponsored or is the owner self against and promote writers to write against Modi and BJP?
At the last congrats to Ms Meena as she has joined hands with Saba Naqvi in her malicious effort to project modi as dark spirit and muslims as true sons of India.
Ms Meena Kandasamy,
Having stoutly defended you and your views earlier on in these columns, frankly I felt let down by your latest piece . Reasons : This is NOT based on facts, is insensitive to the sentiments of people who are against cow slaughter, is more rhetorical than analytical and therefore tends to be shallow, lacking in depth. I am truly dsappointed !
To start with some maniac threw a piece of meat into the premises of a Hindu temple which triggered the communal tensions in the "old basti" of Hyderabad and not the way you stated. You got your facts utterly wrong, Lady.
And what is the pupose of this "Festival" , so called ? Just to be provocative and raise the temperature in the OU campus? This is an irresposible, mischivous, ill-motivated event which sould be condemned by all--- including the "Progressives and Seculars"like you.
I tell you, this lady will replace othe lady as the most provocative writer in India. The good thing is that she defies logic in a better way than the other one.
The article is written only for the provocation but certainly it is not like a provocation that makes you think. The article goes from start to end ad nauseum. Pathetic but well written.
Dear Sir, I forgot to add one point in my last post. I sincerely advise my dalit brothers and sisters to particularly avoid beef since it is classified as "red meat" and is dangerous for human health in the medium and long terms. Consumption of beef by humans could in the medium and long term lead to heart attacks, cancer and other malignancies. Then there is also another issue. When animals are killed for food they undergo a tremendous amount of stress and this stress is transferred according to many scientists to humans who consume it. I hereby appeal to all dalits in their own interests to transfer to consuming wholesome vegetarian food and lead long, healthy and happy lives.
Dear Sir, I think that the entire world should become vegetarian. Scientific studies has proved that people as a rule live longer with vegetarian food (other things being equal) than by consuming non vegetarian food. One study conducted at harvard even asserts that vegetarians are happier than non vegetarians. Vegetarians have less blood pressure, cardio vascular issues, cancer, diabetes etc than non vegetarians. This has been documented in a number of scientific studies carried out in north america. This is apart from the moral issue of killing sentient beings for food. I think the time has come for humankind to avoid eating not just beef but all non vegetarian food and become vegetarians and lead moral, healthy and happy lives.
The article seems to have been written in a vaccum. You cannot expect a select group to be tolerant and allow their beliefs to be compromised when the entire atmosphere of appeasement has been created in the country. Let people eat, read, listen and see what they want but dont limit this maxim to hinduism only.
It seems no article at Outlook is complete without reference to Modi. Matter of bread and butter?
I stay in Malaysia and they slaughter (Bangladeshi Muslims) cows on Road in broad daylight!! It makes me sick as though I am pure Non-Vegetarian, I find it despicable to actually witness the goru sight! Hypocrisy??
Anyway, the attempt to "introduce" beef would have been "genuine", if there was an equally "sincere" effort to introduce pork on the same menu and from same Kitchen!
But then that would not mean secularism.
Nice post Meena. Since there are so many comments and sentiments were against you I feel urge to write this. I have always looked at awe-struck by your courage and conviction to defend what you write and what you speak. I always knew this when you were so much against oppression of freedom of expression when Sir Salman Rushdie was not allowed by religious fanatics to participate in Jaipur festival which not many holy cow worshipers who spew hatred against you wants to mention here. Be it anti-nuclear protest that took place in koodankulam. Or now beef festival. You are very equivocal against all religious oppression, stifling of freedom of speech. We will always be with you. Keep going dear...
>> Men take pride in being mummy’s boys, but it is high time Hindutva organisations and secular, state-run universities stop being swayed by bovine sex appeal, step out of their Oedipus complex and remind themselves that cows, at least the fertile ones, are only mothers of calves
Meena obviously takes pride in being stupid. She probably has sexual fantasies about a bull, and wished her father was more like one, or was one.
Does that pass the Outlook censorship test, or will it be purged?
>> A very silly article is this. If the Dalits want to eat beef they are free to do so.
Not always. States have rules that prevent killing of cows, and some, I think, even ban beef. So beef is not always easily available.
>> No one is stopping a Dalit from eating beef nor is there any rule.
I think there is in many cases.
>> However no one has a right to offend any other group in public.
I think right to offend is part of freedom of expression. Groups organizing beef fest certainly had a right to do so. It was stupid, but people who have issues need to suck it up.
>> BTW what has Narendra Modi got to do with Beef Eating episode?
Modi bashing is essential for Outlook's bottomline. It ensures that Mr. Mehta keeps getting his imported wines and his dog keeps getting his imported cheese.
A very silly article is this. If the Dalits want to eat beef they are free to do so. No one is stopping a Dalit from eating beef nor is there any rule. However no one has a right to offend any other group in public.
BTW what has Narendra Modi got to do with Beef Eating episode? is there some unwritten code amongst journos that if Na Mo is not bashed in an article the same will not get published?
I also noted that Ms Meena Kandasamy chose to ignore and delete serious questions from her FB and Twitter accounts and chose to let only the abuses remain. No doubt, her intentions were to present herself as a victim, after the serious provocations she made. She's every bit as small minded and bigoted as the Hindutva brigades she derides.
Great to see another liberal charlatan at work straight out of outlook's office . The kind that selectively use Brahmin/hindu tradition to drive home their point . So , they will quote D N Jha and the proponents of kamasutra as if the Ramayan and Bhagvad Gita were compiled in Latvia . Never say do your duty ... always say have good sex . It does not stop there . They will frame "liberal" laws for India , BUT there is a catch !! The so called Pan Indian laws apply only to Hindu Personal Law !! While other communities following other personal laws can still be "unliberal" because our liberal lords feel they need to "protect minorities' status" and "unique culture" . The implication is that you will be stripped of all you believe in if and only if you are a hindu . We are now second rate citizens in our own land .
A lot of academics will also say that India has a Hindu core and that this culture has seeped into all that is Indian , but things like that do not go to print because the liberals are busy copying the west in it's pursuit of a twisted agenda .
True Hindus will tend to see this land as a "mother" . This personification leads hundreds of young men to fight for her in war and otherwise . The image of a chained mother India was used to drive home a point even during the freedom struggle . The image of the cow as mother is built around her usefullness as cattle and because the cow is seen actively around Hindu pantheon of gods . It is best you eat the gazillion other forms of meat that are not proscribed instead of wasting page on beef .
There is a counter-argument to every argument . The discussion can stops only with the victory of a side and the defeat of another . And strenght is what ensures this victory . If the people in the states who voted the governments banning beef are fine with it , the rest should just "chicken out" of the fight .
BTW Ms. Kandhaswamy , the Brahmins that Jha talks about as eating beef were widely seen as the ones who were decadent and trying to enforce caste barriers and keeping up the myths that they could benifit from . Should we start practicing all the wrongs that they did (witch-hunting , power plays,sati,tantric rituals) or are you interested in invoking these devils to just have a bite of beef ?
What was the need to have a festival mocking Hindu sentiments? I'm sure most of the Dalit students assembled there don't eat beef at home.. this doesn't help the Dalit cause in anyway and is a political ploy to divide students and exacerbate communal tensions. It is as provocative as a Pork fesitval in Saudi Arabia.
Beef has never been the Dalit food.It has always been the Pork.One can see Dalits tending herds of pigs,and then slaughter them for it's meat,pork or ham.Infact ,Dalits are never allowed to sell pork in the heart of a city,by Muslims,while on the other hand beef is sold in what is called the beef and poultry markets.It is the Christianised Dalits who are indulging in this beef festival only drive a wedge between the dalit and non-dalit Hindus.
In this case, I have noticed that Meena Kandasamy have only RTed stupid abuses on twitter & chose to completely ignore genuine questions / debates. In effect, all this seem to be an attention-mongering exercise & have done no good to beef-lovers like me. Nobody objected others to eat beef / pork as they like. There is simply no need to provoke a particular community. If all that author needs is a 15-second fame, she can do a cameo role in some bollywood movie (if some producer willing in first place).
Unfortunately the facts dont seem to be so convenient. The student who was stabbed is an ABVP activist and a case of attempt to murder was filed against the beef festival organisers. Please see this story in the TOI: