The authors of An Aarti From Time, A Brookings Chalisa (Apr 2)—Anil Dharkar, Cyrus Guzder, Nandan Maluste and Teesta Setalvad—need to be taken to task for plagiarism. Part of the article is taken straight from Salil Tripathi’s column ‘Incredible Impunity’, which appeared in Mint on February 29, 2012, but does not acknowledge the author or the source.
Gauri Hiren, Gandhinagar & Chhayank, on e-mail
Doesn’t Outlook tire of letting the usual secular suspects hog its pages? Here’s why so many people love Narendra Modi and would like to see him as PM : he provides clean governance, has brought in transparency, and cares for the country.
Krishna, on e-mail
Trust Outlook to give Teesta & Co a forum to express their ridiculous views, riddled with misinformation and malicious propaganda.
Shirish Chaudhary, on e-mail
Looks like the years of labour the secular brigade put in have marred by these two write-ups on Modi.
Dr V. Mahadevan, Chennai
Trustees of Citizens for Justice & Peace indeed! They probably want neither justice nor peace, obsessed as they are with Modiphobia.
Hilda Raja, on e-mail
I’m no fan of Modi, but have no hatred for him either. I’ve travelled across India, and would ask these writers to show me one example of a leader from another state who stands as tall as Modi in providing an efficient, non-corrupt administration and is also liked by all. Take a trip to Ahmedabad, or even to small-town Bhuj, and you’ll be surprised by the amazing and visible development he has brought about.
I’m sure those who like Modi are loyal citizens of Gujarat and meek followers of a dismal king. My constitutional rights allow me to hate Modi. I wonder how long it will take to bring justice to those harmed in the Gujarat riots.
Ritu Wadhwa, Delhi
Some facts to correct what Dharker & Co have said: a) Against the national growth rate of 7.8 per cent in the 10th Five Year Plan, Gujarat registered 10.97 per cent; b) in recognition of this, the 11th Plan set Gujarat a target of 11.2 per cent; c) Gujarat was one of the first to enact the FRBM Act way back in 2005, and its revenue surplus is Rs 3,615 crore.
M.K. Verma, on e-mail
It seems Modi is just lucky that the people of Gujarat love him. And I suppose the Tatas, Bajajs and Ambanis are fools to be taken in by the growth chart Modi’s drawn for Gujarat.
Priyakant Patel, Marietta, US
Being blatantly pro-corporate can indeed get one on the Time cover. This is not the first time this has happened. The saving grace is that none of these figures lasted long.
M. Vijayakumar, on e-mail
Like in much of journalism today, Dharker and friends have used per capita income and GDP—two highly misleading indices—to make Gujarat look bad. As for revenue deficit, which state is not indebted, including the Centre?
J.N. Bhartiya, Hyderabad
It’s time the Modi myth is taken apart and I hope this article has started that exercise.
Santosh John Samuel, Kochi
[Have you told people how Modi & team appealed for calm during the Godhra train burning tension situation? Just go to Youtube and see the Doordarshan broadcast during that Godhra evening where he made a passionate appeal to the Gujaratis to remain calm. I have watched it many times. Even though I don't understand Gujarati for most part (I am a Kannadiga), the appeal was very genuine and appealing to everyone.]
If you don’t understand what he was saying how are you so sure that the appeal was genuine and appealing?
@ Raghav Hegde
What about a rally for Yeddyurappa?
@ Ramesh Swamy
[The ability of the left to keep religious violence in the public domain when it is committed by the 'right' is impressive but perhaps not as impressive as their ability to conveniently forget virtually every violent act committed by themselves over a 50 year period]
So why doesn’t the Right keep religious violence in the national conversation when it was committed by non-Right parties like the Congress?
Why, would you say, the Rights fails to do this in any consistent way (perhaps even avoids doing it?) for the victims of the 1984 anti-Sikh pogrom in Delhi?
Attacking the Left for inconsistency (fair call) is no defence of communal violence, is it? It’s just an attack on the Left.
[The current generation of Muslims cannot be blamed for that.]
* faints with shock *
Read as ; Gun Powder
OutLook please give another anti- Modi Article as Modi haters and baiters have exhausted their gu powder on this Chalisa .
>> Why is the NRI ship so lopsided?
You are extending this discussion beyond all reason. The percentage of NRI's supporting the BJP is much higher than the percentage of Indians in India supporting the BJP. I shall let you figure out the reason yourself. My last post in this thread.
answer this then:
If your hypothetical ship sailing with 'I hate Modi' flag is so balanced,
Why is the NRI ship so lopsided? (according to you)
Both are a slice of India, no?
>> I am not accusing. I am concluding.
Concluding without proof is as bad as accusing without proof.
>> you need the counter-weight of people of other religions to balance the ship you are sailing on.
No! I need them only to answer your silly question.
>> do you realize the part religion is playing in your own post here?
Religion was the gist of your question! How can I answer it without mentioning religion?
To answer your first point:
I am not accusing. I am concluding.
To answer this one:
"If you are referring to your question, "If this is not done for religious reasons, then what else is this done for?", the answer is simple. There are as many Hindus and Christians trying to bring Modi to book as there are Muslims. Are they all doing it for religious reasons? Most of the anti-Modi articlse, and the best of such articles, are in fact written by secular Hindus."
So you need the counter-weight of people of other religions to balance the ship you are sailing on. OK, do you realize the part religion is playing in your own post here? I am not saying all the people on this ship are doing it for religious reasons. Some need a purpose in life, some need religion.
If you want to compare Modi with Hamas I am not going to give you any argument.
>> you expect me to produce a proof.
You mean you can make an accusation without producing a proof?
>> I asked you a question.
If you are referring to your question, "If this is not done for religious reasons, then what else is this done for?", the answer is simple. There are as many Hindus and Christians trying to bring Modi to book as there are Muslims. Are they all doing it for religious reasons? Most of the anti-Modi articlse, and the best of such articles, are in fact written by secular Hindus.
It's amusing that you expect me to produce a proof like a lawyer by digging through the numerous posts you make here. It's a nice ruse, 'hey can you prove it? no? you are a liar and a retard!'
Couple of posts ago I asked you a question which is relevant to the proof thing you seem to want to latch on. I am yet to see evidence that you understood that question.
If you cannot (actually, will not) understand that question, there is no point in arguing.
Anwar you say Hamas is duly elected & is intolerant...It simply states the mindset of followers of Islam....Elect fantics & radicals Dont tolerate People of other religion...So you should not have any problem If Gujratis have re-elected Mr Modi Twice ...Now you will give some childish/toddler explaination against my school going boys arguement..just pasting your reply for reference purposes
How many Christians are left in Gaza?
There are 4000 Christians in Gaza. Hamas is an Islamist organization, so the government is more intolerant than the PLA government in the West Bank. I do not support Islamists, but I do not ignore the fact that Hamas was duly elected, something Americans and others who claim to be pro-democracy ignored. By the way the condition of Muslims in Israel proper is pretty bad too.
>> It's a big ask of you to start emerging from your hate all supporters of Modi bubble.
You had said "religious bubble". When did it become "Modi bubble"? If I want Modi brought to justice, is that the same thing as hating all supporters of Modi?
>> thousands of years ago in a book.
Did I mention the Book? Do any of my comments or views show the influence of the Book? Give me just one example. If you can't, admit that you are either a malicious liar or a retard.
And the great Vinod Mehta with his head firmly lodged in his backside, is on a roll ( or so he thinks) by repeatedly allowing extra long polemics from his ( this is pure imagination on my part of course ) one time girl friend, and Ellsworth Toohey wannabe, Arundhati Roy.
Heh, I know Outlook rarely engages in what can be called balanced journalism, but the recent tide of articles are making it lean so far away from the central point, that they seriously risk losing long term readership at he cost of short term eye-balls.
IMHO, of course.
Just for the record, I don't support Modi per se. But I hate the witch hunt campaign by those who, whether they admit it or not, are as communal, and just as banal as those they deludedly believe they are winning their fight against.
When an Islamic journalist is arrested for his purported ( emphasis) involvement in some Israeli high stakes brinksmanship, the community erupts to his defense. He is innocent, they shriek. (innocent until proven guilty, right?)
When court after court, commission after commssion fails to find Modi guilty, these same people are livid! (guilty until proven innocent)
If this is not done for religious reasons, then what else is this done for?
If a court finds Modi guilty tomorrow, I will not feel bad, after all, guilty must be punsished. But to go on a witcht is just as banal and should be censured. It's the right thing to do.
>> To figure you out, one does not have to be an Einstein.
You have not shown a single piece of data that helped you figure me out. You are just blowing hot air.
I said so before. It's a big ask of you to start emerging from your hate all supporters of Modi bubble. You are ferociously proving my point.
Get rid of your love for what people were blowing out of their asses thousands of years ago in a book. You will begin to see the truth as its meant to be analyzed by intelligent human beings. Again, a big ask of you.
>> "wide celebrations that broke out in muslim areas all over India every single time Pakistan beat India at cricket in the tournaments held in Sharjah and elsewhere. " - Raghav
That was true only for the first (or worst case, second) generation Muslims of post-independent India. Many Muslims remained in India for practical reasons (their land, property, business were in India) even though their heart was with Pakistan. The same was probably true for the Hindus or sikhs who remained in Pakistan. The current generation of Muslims cannot be blamed for that.
>> Hindus in India have been hating muslims, been suspicious of muslims.
And guys like you have been contributing to such hatreds and suspicions! Making so much out of the fact that some Muslims applaud Pakistani cricket teams shows your mindset. Indian Muslims have not shown any sympathy for any Pakistani government actions or policies and are just trying to deal with their own problems such as job discrimination, housing discrimination and poverty. I see more communalist poison in people like you than I see in most Indian Muslims.
"Can you show me which of my comments show an inclination to religiosity?"
I have been reading you for a long time. Why do you oppose something, or support something? To figure you out, one does not have to be an Einstein, with all due respect!
ALso, do you seriously believe that I will have a clipping of all your posts you have made (and many deleted due to Outlook website policy, ahem) where you are refering to one set of religosos as much worse than the other? (is the light shining yet, bloke?)
Anwaar....hindus in India have been hating muslims, been suspicious of muslims, look upon them as Pakistani sympathizers long before anybody heard of Narendra Modi. Modi has nothing to do with the wide celebrations that broke out in muslim areas all over India every single time Pakistan beat India at cricket in the tournaments held in Sharjah and elsewhere. Modi has nothing to do with Indian muslims refusing to contribute to the Kargil war fund. Modi has nothing to do with the utter silence of Indian muslims when their Kashmiri co-religionists were ethnic cleansing the hindus in that state. You know very well the reasons hindus hate muslims. It has nothing to do with Modi. Try being Indian, support India, not Pakistan. Then talk to us.
>> Muslims in Karnataka as well as in the rest of India dont even support India against Pakistan at cricket.
True for some Muslims, but you can be expected to generalize it to all Muslims. Modi too is an expert in dividing us into "us" and "they".
Anwaar, forget supporting Modi. Muslims in Karnataka as well as in the rest of India dont even support India against Pakistan at cricket.
>> when you come out of your religious bubble.
Can you show me which of my comments show an inclination to religiosity? Is my opposition to BJP/RSS religiosity? Is the support of others for BJP/RSS religiosity? Or do you usually say things without knowing what you are talking about?
There is a certain economy with the memory that writers to the left of the political spectrum usually have and the 4 co-authors of this piece are no different. I take issue with leftists assuming upon themselves the mantle of 'keepers of decency'. I am old enough to have grown up in Delhi in 1984 when a certain 'decent' person declared about his recently assasinated mother "when a giant tree falls, the earth shakes". That statement referred to the loss of 2700 lives (by the governments own statistics so arguably, massively understated), the displacement of 50,000 people and more importantly, at least till 2011, no arrests. The ability of the left to keep religious violence in the public domain when it is committed by the 'right' is impressive but perhaps not as impressive as their ability to conveniently forget virtually every violent act committed by themselves over a 50 year period - and there have been several....
"NRI's have been supporters of RSS/VHP for a long time. No wonder they support someone who made flagrant violations of raj-dharma. Many of them were Bush supporters."
If ( I know it's a big ask ) and when you come out of your religious bubble, you will understand my post better.
I can't speak for all the NRIs, but I hate all religiosos, including Hindu fanatics. And I do hate Islamists too, with militant (heh heh) passion.
>> NRI's have been supporters of RSS/VHP for a long time.
NRI Muslims too?
Perhaps they don't matter in your hate Calculus.
>> Most people in Karnataka would give their right hand to have him as our chief minister.
Karnataka Muslims too? Perhaps they don't matter!
>> So many NRIs support him.
NRI's have been supporters of RSS/VHP for a long time. No wonder they support someone who made flagrant violations of raj-dharma. Many of them were Bush supporters.
And if Teesta Shitalvad holds a rally, lot of Bangaloreans will attend it. Armed with foul smelling eggs and over ripe tomatoes.
I cannot speak for other Indians. But I have lived all my life in Bangalore. I know how people in Bangalore think. At least the general trend. If two people - Rahul Gandhi and Narendra Modi hold a rally in Bangalore - I am sure the only people attending Rahul's rally will be villagers from outside Bangalore brought in trucks and paid by the Congress party machinery 100-200 bucks each to attend the rally. But a rally by Narendra Modi? Real people in Bangalore will attend it. You wont have to pay us even a single rupee for that. One man is an absolute achiever worthy of admiration. Other is a loser who has done nothing in his life other than be the son and grandson of somebody, and worthy of only contempt.
Bring in Manmohan Singh, only street dogs will stay to hear him speak.
Ritu Wadhwa from Delhi, seriously, just because you dont "like" Modi does not mean all those who like him are ugly nasty conniving guilty Gujaratis. Some of us are ugly nasty conniving guilty Kannadigas from Bangalore too... why should Modi go to US to serve NRIs ? Most people in Karnataka would give their right hand to have him as our chief minister.
Its amazing how Modi haters underestimate the man's popularity in the country.
"But, my fundamental constitutional right allows me to hate him!I wonder how long will it take to bring justice to the riot victims, instead of focusing on that Time chose to applaud Modi....but why dont ya loyal NRI supporters sponser him to US?"
Guilty until proven innocent does not work in the real world though. No matter how much you hate him. So sad, no?
So many NRIs support him. Could it be that those who are exposed to the US media tend to seek a balanced view? (the US media is very fair and balanced in general (with a few exceptions, like Fox News) If you choose to turn away from the balanced view presented to you, that says a lot about yourself, not the US media!
(that last comment goes for all the other relgious morons and their apologists who are out to lynch Modi on this board)
Outlook, along with Vinod Mehta are on a blind witch hunt. It will make for some quick advertising Rupees, but they risk their credibility if they have not done so already.
>> What I wanted to highlight was the fact they made money on wealth meant for the greater good of the community (Wakf),which they are supposed to safeguard zealously.
I agree with you but you had said, "Apparently Muslims of all places (other than Gujarat) don't want Modi ,but look @ what their politicos have done ....... 2 lakh crore Wakf Board real estate scam," as if Muslims should give up their struggle against Modi because some Muslims are corrupt!
I am quite sure that almost all of the 'likers' are the loyal citizens of Gujarat and meek followers of a dismal king. Simply because, you have not been part of the Gujarat genocide and were not directly / indirectly impacted the its wrath. Truthfully, I am not getting influenced/ affected by the policies/ investments in his state, so why care?
But, my fundamental constitutional right allows me to hate him!I wonder how long will it take to bring justice to the riot victims, instead of focusing on that Time chose to applaud Modi....but why dont ya loyal NRI supporters sponser him to US?
I would rather go with the rationalistic, statistically backed up analysis of time and brookings than some hardcore anti modi journal. dont u people get fed up of writing aginst modi... as the author was writing this, the supreme court trashed aside a PIL to summon modi... and mind its the 'supreme court'.... come back with some real statistics and data...
Does this debate on Modi and his rule take us anywhere.No.We have 136 who see no reason to see Modi"s rule and its achievements being scrutinised and Anwar one hand who sees nothing great in Modiland.Relax,How long is going to continue.sir
There is only so much Congress+muslim activism and partisanship I can take. I have stopped subscribing to Outlook. My only regret is I should have cancelled my subscription several years ago. Anyway, better late than never.
Also, I saw the new outlook editor Krishna Prasad on Arnab's NewsHour show on Times Now. I saw him use vulgar obscenities on live tv to brow beat the BJP spokespers Ms.Meenakshi Lekhi. Then, on his next appearence on the same show, he makes vulgar jokes about the wives of BJP politicians.At least Vinod Mehta was a charming crook. This guy Krishna Prasad seems to be a low life and a vulgar and obscence common gunda or thug. I can understand a journalist having his point of view and not liking a political party. But Krishna Prasad has taken it too far, and is using his post as Outlook editor just to express his hatred for one of India's two national parties, BJP.
I am done with this magazine. Enough said.
What I wanted to highlight was the fact they made money on wealth meant for the greater good of the community (Wakf),which they are supposed to safeguard zealously.
>>> Are Hindus not involved in scams?
Yes,there have been numerous instances where politicians have stolen temple wealth.
But the scale of the afore mentioned scam is mind-boggling 2 lakh crores. Kleptocracy is understood & everyone knows it goes around.But such mass plunder ???
I think this must bring about a change in voting patterns. The X caste will vote a X candidate, the A religion will vote an A candidate must go kaput.
All that loot took place under the watch of Secular Parties. There has been no such incident during the present regime. (Though I must say there are charges of serious corruption)
Also, I wanted to highlight that there has been no such incidence in Gujarat after Modi has taken over. Moreover the living standard of minorities has gone up as evidenced by the government statistics.
>> the thing is that you're trying to downplay corruption, and meanwhile Modi is overcoming corruption.
Totally irrelevant to the thread between Hari and me. Are you a retard?
@ Anwaar -" but I did support the civil rights movement in the USA, the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa and I was a peacenik during the Viet Nam war" : Lol, as if you led these movements
I'd read all the posts - the thing is that you're trying to downplay corruption, and meanwhile Modi is overcoming corruption. My suggestion is that communal Muslims go find Muslim-majority countries to go live in, so that they can be surrounded by their fellow chauvinists and crooks. The rest of us are simply fed up with these offensive antics.
If Hindus are involved in scams, then why are you voting for them, instead of voting for Modi?
It's the Congress Party, BSP, and SP who are most notorious for scams, so don't hypocritically complain about Hindus involved in scams, when you are voting for them.
Modi, by contrast, is a clean politician who is working tirelessly for the development of his state. The reason why Gujarat has progressed so well economically, is because he's pursuing development and not scams. The reason why the Congress Party, BSP, and SP attack Modi is because they are busy increasing their own wealth through scams, and know that by instigating suckers like you against Modi, then they will be able to continue their scam ride with your free support, at the expense of honest guys like him.
>> look @ what their politicos have done ....... 2 lakh crore Wakf Board real estate scam.
Are Hindus not involved in scams?
While everyone must stand up for all victims of human rights abuse, it is not right to just make it a one-dimensional vengeance against Narendra Modi. Particularly when the writers claim to be Citizens for "Justice".
I have just 6 questions to start with, and would appreciate if the writers of this article be kind enough to answer them, either publicly or privately (my email is with Outlook).
1) Have you told people about the Mohammed Kalota & team which burnt down 58 women, men and kids in Godhra that sparked riots? Have you counted how many of those finally given life sentence & death penalty were Congress party members or supporters at Godhra Municipal council?
2) Have you told people about Gujarat's fractured society which has seen 100s of small and big riots over 300 years?
3) Have you told people about the 1969 riot under Indira Gandhi's PM tenure when far more people were killed in the same areas of Gujarat?
4) Have you told people how Modi & team appealed for calm during the Godhra train burning tension situation? Just go to Youtube and see the Doordarshan broadcast during that Godhra evening where he made a passionate appeal to the Gujaratis to remain calm. I have watched it many times. Even though I don't understand Gujarati for most part (I am a Kannadiga), the appeal was very genuine and appealing to everyone.
5) Have you told people how quickly & effectively Modi regime called army & police help, unlike Rajiv Gandhi's 1984 when he just let his party's goons go on a 3000+ minority killing spree?
6) Have you told people how the 3 neighbouring states of Gujarat, all three Congress party ruled, refused to send police help during the riots? Wasn't it criminal on the part of responsible Chief Ministers of those states? Have you ever written about their misconduct?
The list is very long. When one sees through the overall scheme of things in India where Hindus and Muslims have hit each others right from independence, the real picture of Gujarat will come out. Till then, it would just be a one-sided hate filled propaganda.
By the way "Chalisa" is a sacred Hindu way of chanting prayers. Examples are Hanuman Chalisa and Durga Chalisa. Don't insult Hindus by mocking Chalisa.
Contact me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kiranks
Apparently Muslims of all places (other than Gujarat) don't want Modi,but look @ what their politicos have done ....... 2 lakh crore Wakf Board real estate scam ...... the operators Muslim politicians -Wakf Board members-Real Estate sharks ........ Beneficiaries Opposition politicians ( majotity of them Islamic).
"If Godhra residents set fire to the train, Godhra Muslims must be punished, preferably after full investigation. But why kill and rape Muslims in Ahmedabad, Vadodra, Surat, in fact all over Gujartat for something that some Godhra residents did? Hindutva terrorists bombed Samjhauta express killing 68 people, mostly Muslims. Do you think a reprisal killing 2000 innocent people would have been justified?"
I wouldn't say that the Gujarat Muslims deserved the Godhra aftermath, but the Godhra Muslims' actions were an accessory to the crime that happened.
Remember these words miyan?
"What guarantee do we have that there will not be more Gujarats and more Modis?"
What guarantee do we have that there will not be more partitions of India on religious lines?
>> Gujaratis retaliating MEANS no more riots in Gujarat.
That is because the Bajrangis have been reined in as a result of some efeective prosecutions, starting with the convictions obtained when the cases were ordered tried outside Gujarat by the Supreme Court. Modi too has learned his lesson from universal national and international condemnation.
>> Muslims could try not provocatively burning trains with other people in them.
If Godhra residents set fire to the train, Godhra Muslims must be punished, preferably after full investigation. But why kill and rape Muslims in Ahmedabad, Vadodra, Surat, in fact all over Gujartat for something that some Godhra residents did? Hindutva terrorists bombed Samjhauta express killing 68 people, mostly Muslims. Do you think a reprisal killing 2000 innocent people would have been justified?
>> Arafat asked his Christian wife to convert.
What does that have to do with the fact that Muslims and Christians have fought their war for justice as one and are in the PLA government as partners?
>> How many Christians are left in Gaza?
There are 4000 Christians in Gaza. Hamas is an Islamist organization, so the government is more intolerant than the PLA government in the West Bank. I do not support Islamists, but I do not ignore the fact that Hamas was duly elected, something Americans and others who claim to be pro-democracy ignored. By the way the condition of Muslims in Israel proper is pretty bad too.
>> Hamas poised to take control over Egypt.
Ther is no Hamas in Egypt. Muslim Brotherhood is much less Islamist than it was 25 years ago, and moderate and liberal parties too will be in Parliament to check the Brotherhood. I hope this is a temporary phase and I hope Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (just like the BJP in India) will soon decline and disappear.
>> you're expecting me to believe that if Palestine was hypothetically all-Christian...
I can't answer hypothetical questions, but I did support the civil rights movement in the USA, the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa and I was a peacenik during the Viet Nam war. None of them had anything to do with religion.
"What guarntee do we have that there will not be more Gujarats and more Modis?" Faruki
Riots I don't think will happen but yes more and more Modis will be rising in India as the new generation has seen through you Secs' agenda after the exposure of so many scams .Latest is the Karnatka Muslims Waqf land of Rs 2 Lakh Crores .
New generation including Muslims want development,education and decent living conditions .Unfortunately Secus have nothing to show except 2002 .
They want Vibrant Gujarat like progress not seventh Century dogmas and stone age conditions like Afghanistan and Pakistan .
63 yrs back Muslims were given the lands to live separately and they ended up in establishing Terror Factories . You people are calcified and fossilized hence not suitable for New India .
"What guarntee do we have that there will not be more Gujarats and more Modis?"
You give a guarentee that no more trains will be burned and we guarentee that no more riots will happen but the logic of Anwar miyan and and all his fellow islamists happens to be the same:
It all started when he hit me back!!
"False! Muslim and Christian Palestinians have been one in the fight for justice. Christians are prominent members of the present PLA government."
Again, Arafat asked his Christian wife to convert, which shows your standards on sekoolarism. India supported Arafat/PLO from the beginning anyway, and promoted its cause among the NAM while Pakistan aligned with the US.
How many Christians are left in Gaza? None, I'd wager, thanks to CAIR's brothers in Hamas. And with Hamas poised to take control over Egypt, along with even more rabid fanatics who also got a big chunk of the vote, I can't see Christians even being able to stay on in Egypt, let alone Palestine. This is in spite of the fact that they supported the Arab Spring protests.
But really, you're expecting me to believe that if Palestine was hypothetically all-Christian, that you'd be supporting their cause in the same way. Suppose all Palestinians had converted to Christianity under British rule - would there be support across the Muslim world for their conflict with Israel? Nahhhh, there's not even a 1% chance of that.
Post # 116,
What guarntee do we have that there will not be more Gujarats and more Modis?>>>>
More Godhras will produce more "fanatic Modis". As far as i see, Mumbai serial Blasts = Shiv Sena retaliation MEANS nor more riots in Mumbai.
Godhra burning = Gujaratis retaliating MEANS no more riots in Gujarat (incl Ahmedabad).
Trust me; except Kashmir, you won't see riots. Sanity is prevailing over "Islam Khatrey mein hain".
Well, Muslims could try not provocatively burning trains with other people in them - that might be a start. I realize that you didn't even consider that option, since Muslim communalists like to safeguard their freedom of action as a sacred right, but I thought I'd be daring and suggest the unthinkable.
Or on the other hand, you could try a little learning experiment:
Go to another state in India with a Muslim mob, and burn another train as was done in Godhra. I'll go out on a limb and make the prediction that such an act might provoke similar backlash as occurred following Godhra. Hey, I know, I know, you can't bring yourself to believe what I'm saying, because you've already told me that Modi's presence is essential for riots to happen, but let's just say I have a vague hunch on this.
>> India abides by the dharma of 'live and let live'.
True for most Indians, but then we also have you, Sanjay and Modi!
>> "What guarntee do we have that there will not be more Gujarats and more Modis?" - Anwaar
India abides by the dharma of 'live and let live'. Don't breach that norm if you are so wary of the consequences.
>> what is the guarantee that we non-Muslims won't become the targets of such co-religionist solidarity?
What guarntee do we have that there will not be more Gujarats and more Modis?
>> The (Palestinian) Christian members are incidental.
False! Muslim and Christian Palestinians have been one in the fight for justice. Christians are prominent members of the present PLA government.
>> You say that worldwide Jewish support for Israel doesn't bother you...
And I had asked you whether it bothered you, since Muslim support of Palestinians bothers you so much.
>> You claim the Socialist Left are the least sectarian people of all. As previous noted, National Socialism (aka 'Nazism') is one of the most notorious ideologies...
To bring in Nazism as an example of today's liberal socialism shows the degree of your dishonesty and deceptiveness. The points you raise and the questions you ask reveal your strong Nazi and fascist inclinations.
I repeat my question - when you are justifying co-religionist support by Muslims for one another, then what is the guarantee that we non-Muslims won't become the targets of such co-religionist solidarity? Telling me that sanghis have not asked such questions makes no difference, since I am an atheist and belong to no sangh.
Palestinians are not getting support from the Muslim bloc because of their Christian members. The Christian members are incidental. The sekoolar Arafat required his wife Suha to convert before marrying him. Notice that he wasn't willing to convert to her faith, nor was he willing to accept her as she was. So much for the sanctity of the Christian component of Palestine. When the Palestinian sekoolar-in-Chief couldn't accept the Christian identity of his own wife, then it shows the real face of Palestine. Remember that sekoolar is a relative term within the Muslim bloc. Even the most sekoolar are only sekoolar relative to their more rabidly Islamic types, and simply aren't secular by normal standards.
You say that worldwide Jewish support for Israel doesn't bother you, but I'd say I somehow get a teensy tiny bit of a feeling that it seems to bother a lot of Muslims, since they constantly prattle on against Jews of every stripe. I bet if you took a poll among Indian Muslims about Jewish support for Israel, it won't quite conform to the stance you clam to have. Maybe all those different terrorist attacks against Jews in various corners of the world by Islamists might be a slight hint that the wider Muslim world has a problem with them. You know, little things like that Jewish residence being attacked on 26-11, the recent killing of Jewish schoolchildren in France, desecration of Jewish graves in France and the rest of Europe, a machine-gun attack on a Jewish synagogue in the US, kidnappings of Jews in Afghanistan and Pakistan, previous terror attacks like the Achille Lauro. You know, just little things like that give me just a tiny bit of a hint.
You claim the Socialist Left are the least sectarian people of all. As previous noted, National Socialism (aka 'Nazism') is one of the most notorious ideologies in the history of sectarian warfare. Its propaganda against Jews neatly matches views propagated against them by communal Muslims. There's a strong convergence of communal views there. And that propaganda neatly matches the same caricatures used against Brahmins, whom communal Muslims love to despise. So the Shylock caricature suits the prejudices of both Left-wing and Muslim communalists quite nicely.
>> What guarantee is there to the rest of us that you don't consider Pakistan's Muslim chauvinism to be a "cause that is right"?
What kind of a moron would ask for such a guarantee? Even the most rabid sanghis stopped asking such questions years ago.
>> Why should the rest of us be willing to run that risk?
If you are not willing to run the risk, what will you do? I have not heard anyone asking such idiotic questions in recent years.
>> The "worldwide support for Palestinians" which has mysteriously pulled you in, has always been at its core worldwide Muslim support for Palestinians. Co-religionist support.
Partly true. Palestinians consist of both Muslims and Christians. The support for Palestinians consists of Muslim and non-Muslim support the world over, including many Hindus. The fact that sanghis do not support Palestinians is an expression of their anti-Muslim animus. Shame on you guys! By the way Jews in the US, Canada, Europe and the world over support Israel. Does that bother you too? It does not bother me.
>> The Socialist Left have recently decided to bring their collective into a marriage of convenience with the Islamic collective, and join in support for the same causes.
Absolute rubbish! The correct way of seeing it is that the Socialist Left is largely free from the communalist poison that you saffronites spew.
>> doomed to unite the world against them.
Dream on! Prediction of a hate-crazed paranoid.
The "worldwide support for Palestinians" which has mysteriously pulled you in, has always been at its core worldwide Muslim support for Palestinians. Co-religionist support.
The Socialist Left have recently decided to bring their collective into a marriage of convenience with the Islamic collective, and join in support for the same causes. The Palestinian cause is only one of a range of causes they support along with the Islamic bloc. Their support of other minorities is conspicuously less vocal. I don't see the "sekoolar" Left speaking up for minorities in Pakistan and other Muslim countries in the same way as they do for Palestinians. And this is in spite of the fact that the various non-Muslim minorities add up to a lot more people than the Palestinians. The Left has been increasingly exposing its penchant for sectarian affiliation, which they have adopted out of convenience.
You blame India for establishing ties with Israel - but you and the rest of the communal Muslim bloc have been establishing ties with each other since Day One. It shows that the double standards you support are unsustainable. When you're all maintaining co-religionist ties with each other (and innocently denying it), then why wouldn't non-Muslims similarly join hands?
Like I said, the community which continues to avoid self-criticism and continues to want double standards between others and itself, is doomed to unite the world against them. More and more non-Muslims are joining hands everyday. This is happening in response to your communal behaviour, which you fatuously deny, and laughably expect us to believe.
>> you're tacitly acknowleding your supra-national co-religionist sentiments
What guarantee is there to the rest of us that you don't consider Pakistan's Muslim chauvinism to be a "cause that is right"? Why should the rest of us be willing to run that risk? And when there are other non-Muslim minorities whose causes you don't support with equal fervour, then what are we to infer from that? How are the rest of us supposed to differentiate from Muslim majorities which routinely and invariably behave in a chauvinist manner towards non-Muslims, and Muslim minorities which routinely support other Muslim "causes which they feel to be right"? It's a rather strange and incredible statistical argument you're making to me - that all the "righteous causes" which you happen to support are unrelated to Muslim co-religionist sentiments.
Like I said, the community that reflexively seeks to justify itself at every turn - no matter what the double standard is, no matter how differently they treat others from themselves - is a community that is only going to run into conflict with others. You're only living in a Fool's Paradise.
>> The supra-national Islamic bloc is a figment of your sick imagination
None so blind as those who do not want to see.
>> Pakistan has problems with with Afghanistan, Iran has problems with Saudi Arabia, Syria has problems with Turkey, Sunnis have problems with Shias, Wahabis have problems with Sufis and so on.
SP has problems with BSP, which has problems with Congress, which has problems with Peace party and so on.
Yet, yesterday, you neatly clubbed them all as non-Hindutva parties, getting 69% of the vote, and BJP as the Hindutva party getting 15%.
Same is the story here. They might have problems with each other. But they shall unite against a common enemy like India.
>> You claim that Indian Muslims have the right to support Palestinians in the same way that Indians have the right to support minorities in Pakistan.
We have the right to support causes that we believe are right.
>> you're tacitly acknowleding your supra-national co-religionist sentiments.
Calling it " supra-national co-religionist sentiments" is malicious and idiotic.
>> why would the rest of us non-Muslims believe that you won't support the Pakistan's chauvinist Muslim majority, who are your co-religionists as well?
You can have any malicious and idiotic thoughts you want t have. I can't stop you.
>> You've already basically admitted that co-religionist sympathies are your preference.
If you read that in my post, you are more stupid than I thought. I thought you and I were having an adult converstion, but you were playing a villainous "got you" game with me. You should be ashamed of yourself.
>> You say you don't want a "Hindu sangh" but yet you justify the "Muslim sangh"?
Support for Palestinians is world wide. There are millions of supporters of the Palestinian cause in Europe, United States, Canada and South America. Are they all part of a Muslim Sangh? Are Hindus who support Pakistani Hindus part of a Hindu Sangh? I have written a lot in support of Pakistani Hindus. Am I a member of a Hindu Sangh? You sound more and more like a retard.
>> Why are the INDIAN MUSLIMS not supporting the BUDDHIST in TIBET?
Are Indian Muslims supposed to support all displaced people? Why don't you get off your ass and pick up a good cause yourself?
ANWAAR, Independent Tibet has been occupied by CHINA and HAN CHINESE are being settled in TIBET by CHINA which is similar to what is happening in Palastine and what ISRAEL is doing in West Bank. Tibetans are "burning themselves" in protest against CHINESE OCCUPATION. Why are the INDIAN MUSLIMS not supporting the BUDDHIST in TIBET???? Why are the MUSLIM countries starting from Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc etc not extending any support - even moral support- to TIBETANS, like it is being done in Palastine??? Don't spread TAKIYA. ISLAMIST support only MUSLIMs and actively try to subjugate all NON- MUSLIMS where ever they get a chance- AFPAK, EGYPT, TURKEY, IRAQ, UAE, SAUDI ARABIA, NIGERIA etc.
>> Organization of Islamic States.
It is a toothless and meaningless body of bureaucrats. The only ones I see talking about it are the Sanghis. I never hear any Muslims even mention it.
>> . Their (Iran's) campaign against Israel is not just due to domestic politics but due to their desire to overcome their schisms with the Islamic world.
Such international power plays went on in Europe for centuries. How does that support your thesis of "pan-nationalism"?
>> none of you guys would give even 2 hoots about the Palestinians if they were a bunch of Buddhists.
You care for Pakistani Hindus, but not about Palestinian Muslims and Christians. Hindu NRI's in the US send millions to the RSS and BJP in India. Tamils in Chennai feel for Sri Lankan Tamils. It is stupid to make a big deal about it.
>> People who don't learn their lessons through self-criticism and introspection are only doomed to unite the world against them.
Sanghi pipe dreams! The world is not united against Muslims. It is united against Al Qaeda, Talibans, L-e-T and Al Shabaab. I am against them too, just as I am against RSS, VHP, Bajrangis, Abhinav Bharatis, ABVP, Sanatan Sanstha, Jai Vande mataram, Hindu Janajagruti Samiti etc etc. Your arguments are just old hollow propaganda tools of the RSS.
You claim that Indian Muslims have the right to support Palestinians in the same way that Indians have the right to support minorities in Pakistan. Since you're tacitly acknowleding your supra-national co-religionist sentiments by defending them as your "right", then why would the rest of us non-Muslims believe that you won't support the Pakistan's chauvinist Muslim majority, who are your co-religionists as well? You've already basically admitted that co-religionist sympathies are your preference and your "right". If that's the case, then what's your credibility in admonishing other communities against co-religionist support? You say you don't want a "Hindu sangh" but yet you justify the "Muslim sangh"? Why would non-Muslims find credibility in that stance?
India has no special refugee law for non-Muslim minorities to take shelter in India. Pakistan has all kinds of special laws to discriminate in favour of its own preferred community. The supra-national Muslim sangh extends all kinds of special preferential treatment for its own members, and your defence of your pro-Palestinian sympathies is an example of that co-religionist bias.
"Non-Muslims must not support their co-religionists, because that might discriminate against me and hurt my feelings. But I must support my co-religionists wherever possible, because the equality or feelings of other communities is of no concern to me. What's Mine is Mine, What's Yours We Share."
You say that Islamic pan-nationalism is my imagination. There is no Organization of Christian States, Organization of Hindu States, Organization of Buddhist States, etc - just an Organization of Islamic States. Only one religion likes to group itself into a bloc. The reason why Iran likes to take the lead in attacking Israel - a country it doesn't even have a border with - is because Iran has problems with not just Saudi Arabia, but with the entire Sunni Arab world. Their campaign against Israel is not just due to domestic politics but due to their desire to overcome their schisms with the Islamic world. Once again, the infidel Shylocks become the scapegoats required for the Muslim bloc to forge unity among themselves. Socialist collectivists need such scapegoats too - witness the similar Shylock-baiting by the communal Left in India.
Like I said, none of you guys would give even 2 hoots about the Palestinians if they were a bunch of Buddhists. There are plenty of conflicts going on around the world, but of course you don't notice any of them - just the ones involving your co-religionists. How very non-communal of you. How very sekoolar.
Pakistan's own desire to suppress Pashtun nationalism was the reason that it despatched the Pashtuns to attack Kashmir in 1948. Jinnah decided that in order to divert the Pashtuns from their own separatist nationalism, he could conjure up the bogeyman of "Hindu conspiracy against Islam" as a nice battlecry. As we can see, artificially conjuring up that bogeyman and stirring up conflict with India did not solve the root problem of Pashtun nationalism, and Pakistan later had to resort to further stunts like creating Taliban to cope with the ongoing threat of latent Pashtun nationalism and separatism. In doing so, Pakistan has in turn provoked further conflicts which it's become haplessly entangled in, thus forcing itself (and its amen-corner of Muslim supporters) to now rail not just at Hindus but the entire Western world as well.
People who don't learn their lessons through self-criticism and introspection are only doomed to unite the world against them. They will keep provoking conflicts repeatedly until they find themselves fully isolated and having painted themselves into a corner. It's happened to other people before - like the National Socialists (Nazis), as previously mentioned - and it will happen to you guys as well. It's too bad you're too stupid to figure this out.
>> Afghanistan had problems with USSR before it suffered defragmentation. Turkey was needling Cyprus before Syria popped up. Today, neither Afghanistan nor Turkey has the luxury to choose a non-Islamic adversary.
What the hell are you talking about? You seem to want to say something hateful but have lost your bearings.
>> "The supra-national Islamic bloc is a figment of your sick imagination. Pakistan has problems with with Afghanistan, Iran has problems with Saudi Arabia, Syria has problems with Turkey, Sunnis have problems with Shias, Wahabis have problems with Sufis and so on. " - Anwaar
Afghanistan had problems with USSR before it suffered defragmentation. Turkey was needling Cyprus before Syria popped up. Today, neither Afghanistan nor Turkey has the luxury to choose a non-Islamic adversary.
For the Mullahdom, conflict is like oxygen. If there is no scope for conflict, they will invent one just to ensure their own survival and sanity. For example, just look westwards in Pakistan. Since, they are blast bombs often enough in USA or India, they are bombing their owns.
>> "Sunnis have problems with Shias, Wahabis have problems with Sufis and so on."
Even amongst the Hindus, inter-caste conflicts have existed since centuries. Even Christianity struggles with inter-belief conflicts. But, they go around bombing each other to hell.
>> Pakistan's ugly treatment of its non-Muslim minorities.
The BJP government did not do anything for Pakistan's minorities either, nor could the Congress government do much for Sri Lanka's Tamils. Our intervention in 1970 in what was then East Pakistan was justifiable only because we were the recipients of huge numbers of refugees who were pouring into West Bengal and Assam. If our government speaks up for Hindus in Pakistan, we will be accused of interfering in their internal affairs, but in spite of that I have urged that the Indian government should speak up. I have repeatedly urged on Muslim websites that India's Muslims must speak up for Pakistani Hindus, even though it may not have any impact. Several Pakistani voices and Pakistani English language newspapers have weighed in in favour of Pakistani minorities, including the sister of President Zardari, former PM Nawaz Sharif, and Pakistan’s deputy attorney general, Muhammad Khurshid Khan, who in penance for the atrocities perpetrated on Sikhs by the Taliban, goes to Gurudwaras and sits on the floor polishing the shoes of devotees.
>> Unlike Palestinians, whom Zafar and your CAIR obsess over because they are Muslim, the helpless minorities of Pakistan get no such support.
If one follows your logic, if Indian Muslims support Palestinian refugees, then Indian Hindus must support Pakistan's Hindus. But I do not agree with this kind of lame arguments which you seem to specialize in. Since many of you guys are supporters of Israeli occupiers, you are much more guilty in this regard than India's Muslims. Last year one of the forums I belong to sent a joint appeal to President Zardari protesting the treatment of a Christian girl who was reportedly being forcibly converted to Islam.
>> The supra-national Islamic bloc thrives on hypocritical double.
The supra-national Islamic bloc is a figment of your sick imagination. Pakistan has problems with with Afghanistan, Iran has problems with Saudi Arabia, Syria has problems with Turkey, Sunnis have problems with Shias, Wahabis have problems with Sufis and so on. The things that you and your Sanghi friends speak about so confidently are often just not so.
"India is a nation of minorities."
Agree. But such is the state of affairs now that all "sickular" political parties like congress and SP use the terms Muslims and minorities interchangeably. So when they declare sops for "minorities" they actually mean to attract only "Muslim" votes. They assume that Muslims can’t do the math and won’t figure out that they have to share these sops with other minorities also.
In fact Parsees are truly in minority as a religion. But they have given a lot to India and have asked virtually nothing in return. They are educated, give employment opportunities to others, instead of standing in line at employment exchanges. Unlike muslims, who came here as looters and later ruled India for more than 500 years, Parsees came here as refugees. By sheer hard work and progressive attitude, they mingled with natives beautifully and contributed handsomely to their adopted country. Muslims should learn many lessons from them.
Your friend Zafar argues for accommodation of Pakistan's ugly treatment of its non-Muslim minorities, pretending that appeasement of this irredentist state will help their miserable lot. Unfortunately, we see that even under the current "peace process" Pakistanis are simply taking full advantage to continue their harm. The corrupt Congress Party, whom both of you support, is fully happy to sacrifice such helpless people, so that it can curry favour with your communal-minded vote bank.
Unlike Palestinians, whom Zafar and your CAIR obsess over because they are Muslim, the helpless minorities of Pakistan get no such support, and are left to be preyed upon. We all know the ugly truth that if Palestinians were a bunch of Buddhists, you guys wouldn't give 2 hoots about them. Only members of the supra-national Islamic bloc get the preferential treatment. So the contention has never been about minorities-vs-majorities, because there is no outcry from Muslims over the treatment of non-Muslim minorities living among Muslim majorities. Where the supra-national bloc sees itself as a local minority, it wants to talk exclusively about "minority rights", and where the supra-national bloc sees itself as a local majority, then it quickly acts decisively in favour of that majority to crush minority communities.
The supra-national Islamic bloc thrives on hypocritical double standards of course, and that's unsustainable.
>> Read more about Islamic "tolerance".
Pakistan's treatment of its minorities is atrocious and unforgivable. Are you using that to defend Modi? Do you even think before saying something?
Dewry and Sanjay,
>>>> hatyachar on a minority community
>> An INDIAN CANNOT be MINORITY in INDIA.
Is such semantic pedantry appropriate when the massacre of over 1000 people is being discussed? Both of you must be ashamed of yourselves.
Read more about Islamic "tolerance":
This is what genuine minorities are facing - minorities in the Muslim world - in contrast to the well-treated Muslim "minorities" who act as a supra-national political bloc anyway.
I agree Charan - India is a nation of minorities. The voting patterns show that. Islam is simply the largest minority in a sea of minorities, so they are actually the big fish. That's why they're able to exercise influence in disproportion to their numbers. It is the rest of the various communities of India who are minorities in comparison to them.
>>>hatyachar on a minority community<<<
An INDIAN CANNOT be MINORITY in INDIA. A community which claims that they ruled India, including Gujarat for about 800 years can never be minority. The BLACKS of USA were " bred & traded" like cattle but do not claim that they are minority in USA. Remember, the BLACKS got voting rights in USA in 1965 much after ALL INDIANS got voting rights in 1950. The INDIAN MUSLIMS also did not have get up and offer their seats to anyone else in bus/ train as the BLACKS had to do for WHITES in USA- jest google "ROSA PARK" and read. Anyone feeling "oppressed by minority feeling in India" can migrate to any country like ANWAAR has done and enjoy being the MAJORITY COMMUNITY.
@RSM - #92/D-118, 'those in the margins', is an attempt to squeeze in the fascist secus hiding behind minorities. They are afraid they may not 'find a place' in a 'decent society'.
>>The question is: Where does Modi fit into a vision of decent society in which the minorities and those in the margins have a place, in which dissent has a place?
It’s nice to squeeze in ‘those in the margins’ to have that added effect. But assuming you take his hatred for minorities as gospel, what evidence have you provided that he is against those at the margins? Secondly, if dissent didn’t have a place, how do you think scavenging on Gujarat riot victims became a full blown industry?
Once I happened I travel from Varanasi to Allhabad by road and I was shocked at the poverty and underdevelopment of UP towns in a state which always had the upper hand in national politics. Poverty striken people are a common sight. I tell you you do not see squalor and poverty anything like that in any South Indian states .Even by Indian standards they are backward. It is truly a paradox that the cowbelt along the mighty river Ganges is so backward when all other towns and cities along the banks of other rivers and deltas in India are certainly far more prosperous and do not bear such BPL like look. The reason is exactly bcz of a large uneducated people and a large muslim populace unwilling to educate but contribute in big numbers to the family counts.
>> Anwar will only vote for crooked politicians, because crooked politicians love to tell them what they want to hear.
That describes both the Congress and the BJP politicians, but you forgot the politician who has been getting votes for letting loose hatyachar on a minority community! How come you come up with such dumb arguments?
"Enlightened to me are those who are secular, free from prejudice and free from hate."
In other words those who are your opposites.
Nitwits like Anwar will only vote for crooked politicians, because crooked politicians love to tell them what they want to hear. Remember Natwar Singh screeching over his dismissal following the Volker Report? Look at Mulayam Singh Yadav and his propaganda on Palestine, Iraq, Iran, etc. The crooks know their vote bank will always come running.
This is why Uttar Pradesh is one of the worst underdeveloped provinces, because of Red-Green alliance. This Socialist-Islamist alliance is what made Bihar so backward. And you may remember that the thug Lalu was only too happy to repay his vote bank by declaring that the Godhra train underwent spontaneous combustion! Immaculate conceptions and crimes without perpetrators - the product of unholy marriages.
>> Anwaar's definition of "enlightened" exclusively means those who mimic his one-sided prejudices.
That's stupid! Enlightened to me are those who are secular, free from prejudice and free from hate. In other words those who are your opposites.
>> Egypt's Mubarak was a greedy kleptocratic tyrant.
And I consistently condemned him. He too was an enemy of Hamas, just like you. You do come up with some of the dumbest arguments! By the way, I have been a consistent critic of dynastic rule. You have been making a fool of yourself with every post that you write to me and to Zafar. You are truly pathetic.
You are right! In the UP election the BJP got 15% of the vote, whereas the combined vote of the anti-Hindutva parties was 69%.
Anwaar's definition of "enlightened" exclusively means those who mimic his one-sided prejudices. Preferably Leftists, of course, since their mercenary politics allows them to sell out to any lobby in the interest of lining their own pockets.
Again, we can all debate until the cows come home, but those who are in tune with the laws of physics and reality will prevail in the end. Modi has shown that he is not a kleptocrat and that he knows how to pursue social progress. The Left, by contrast, have shown that they only know how to line their pockets, and will tell any lie or humor any liar in furtherance of their selfish kleptocracy.
Since Anwaar embraces Hamas as his brothers, he should be acutely aware like the rest of us that Egypt's Mubarak was a greedy kleptocratic tyrant. The Congress Party have always been close admirers of Mubarak's regime, and their little prince-in-waiting Rahul Gandhi was a close friend of Hosni's heir. Both parties have a simple strategy of lining their pockets while ruling undemocratically and buying elections - and let's not forget their common habit of labeling all opponents and critics as "fundamentalists".
Indian Spring is not far away. The crooked allies of the corrupt regime of course fear the day it falls.
Anwaar .... " In the final analysis it is only the enlightened Hindus who can keep Modi out of the PM gaddi, and fortunately there are enough of them to do so ...."
Personally, I think the real protection for Indian democracy not falling into extremes comes from the masses fractured primarily around region and caste. They intuitevely vote for local issues rather than intellectual stuff. However, it is good to also have enlightened intellectuals too.
Now, we know Plagiarism can push you into the league of Impeccable credentials of Non-Sanghi variety.
And pointing that out is another example of underhand tactics employed by Right Wing Hindutva Vadi.
How many can say that with such conviction as Anwaar?
>> Anwaar assures us that anyone who disagrees with him is a "sanghi".
Another lie! Many people have disagreed with me but I do not call them any names. I use such adjectives for Hindutvadi hate merchants and Muslim baiters like yourself.
>> . I don't know what credentials you claim for yourself that enables you to assure everyone that you mean no harm to them, and only want to pick out "sanghis".
I don't know what the hell you are talking about.
>> you're not far off from pointing your poison finger at any of us.
One would have to be blind to not know that this forum is mostly right-wing Hindutva. But not all Hindutvadis in this forum are hate peddlers like you.
>> your contrived vocabulary of "Righteous Muslim vs Savage Heathen Infidel"
Another invention of yours! A classic example of projection. Do you habitually make such comments without any basis in fact? Do you go attacking windmills everyday?
Haha - Anwaar assures us that anyone who disagrees with him is a "sanghi". Doesn't matter who - as long as they disagree with his royal highness. Sorry, Your Majesty, but your imagined credibility doesn't wash with me. I don't know what credentials you claim for yourself that enables you to assure everyone that you mean no harm to them, and only want to pick out "sanghis".
The reason nobody here is buying your claptrap, is because they know that you're not far off from pointing your poison finger at any of us, to accuse anyone and everyone of being a "sanghi". All that's required for you is that others disagree with you, and suddenly your poison tongue will shriek "sanghi"!
No thanks, buddy. I'm not interested in subscribing to your fake bill of goods - your contrived vocabulary of "Righteous Muslim vs Savage Heathen Infidel"
I'm happy to continue replying back, until you get tired and back off. Too many communities are suffering from your communal gamesmanship, and I see it as my civic duty to respond back.
>> "impeccable credentials" according to Anwaar.
But not impeccable according to Sanghi morons! No surprise here.
This article is written by intellectually bankrupt authors. They have lost objectivity and sense of proportion. They are biased. I am not a Modi fan nor I have any hatred for him. I travel to many states of India for my business and also many countries in the world. I meet poor, middle class, and rich people. My unbiased (and outsider) impression about Modi is far better than what is described by Time magazine or Brookings Institute. For the sake of sanilty, can these authors show me one leader in India from any party, any State, who is even half as efficient, non-corrupt, and liked by the citizens of his State. It is truly amazing that in spite of relentless bashing and harassment by people like these authors, Congress party, religious organizations; Modi gets elected by convincing majority. You walk on the street of Gujarat. You may talk to road side vendor, Muslims of Gujarat, merchants, industrialists, or even retired people. You will hear the wonderful things he has done for Gujarat. These authors are very good at distorting facts. They cannot see even good things. Look at the speed at which he gets the things done! You will not find any leader as clean, as efficient, as visionary as Mr.Modi is. I would like to challenge these useless aothors to show me such leaders not only in India but in the entire world!!
Instead of writing such hateful article sitting in Mumbai, please take a trip to Gujarat. You may visit small towns like Bhuj or big city like Ahmedabad. If you cannot see amazing development, please get your eyes checked. If you cannot listen the people's satisfaction, please get your ears checked. If you cannot see the bigger picture, get your brain scanned.
Please stop such hateful writings. I am sure you are all well educated. If you have better ideas, why don't you run against him and defeat Modi by convincing the people of Gujarat.
Mark my words. Whether you like it or not, Modi is going to be Prime Mister of India withinh next three years. All Indians should be proud to have such gifted leader.
Heh, "impeccable credentials" according to Anwaar.
Again, a disingenuous attempt to cultivate claptrap artists and Left-wing fanatics as allies, imbuing them with undeserved false credibility.
It's like a pair of junk-bond traders bidding up the price of each others' junk holdings, to make them seem more valuable.
Anwaar, you can trot out as many phlogiston theorists and quacks as you can find, but the laws of reality are not on your side.
>> Eternal vigilance of course is always good - as someone smart and bright has said - it is the price of freedom.
That is the whole point! There was a spate of excellently written cautionary anti-Modi articles on the occasion of the 10th anniversry of Godhra, about 90% of which were written by liberal secular Hindus with impeccable credentials. In the final analysis it is only the enlightened Hindus who can keep Modi out of the PM gaddi, and fortunately there are enough of them to do so, although you would not know it if you read only the comments in this forum.
Dear Oh Dear! Doesn't Outlook ever get tired of allowing the usual secular suspects hog your pages, both paper and electronic. Also don't you think that regurgitated vomit is not exactly clean.
This lot of pseudo intellectuals who have written the article by cutting and pasting from assorted sources, such as Salil Tripathi and adding a bit of fiction from here and there are really showing their jealousy of Modi. Fact is these worthies can never ever dream of being on the cover of TIME or even a part of the footnotes.
Here's why so many people love Modi and would like to see him become the Prime Minister of India. He will Provide clean governance. He will eradicate corruption from the root by making transparent and effective processes. He cares for the country. And that is just the beginning. Gujarat is no longer a microcosm of India because it has gone far ahead.
Time that these people who have ridiculed my religion by the title to their article, realise that their industry of Modi bashing is really sick and is likely to give up its ghost soon! One more thing, if they had ever dared to ridicule a minority religion through an inappropriate title, they would have been at the receiving end of riots. It says a lot for Hindus that they do not object to these titles. So much for their being communal!
"I am surprised that you are actually spending time reading this article."
I read the comments and what caught my attention was Vivekananda-who has become an useful stick to beat hindus with in recent years. A rather sharp turn from how he(and Aurobindo) were viewed right after Independence by the same succulars. So I read the entire article found a few succular gems though I am quite ignorant about its value.
This article has as much to do with Islam, as TATA chosing Gujarat has to do with 2002 riots. or 2002 riots have to do with Gujarat's sterling show on GDP growth.
Why is outlook even lending them this space to these Obvious Blatant anti Modi vitriols? Are we citizens to value Teestas and Dharkar who already have eggs on their faces or Times and Booklyn Studies. The repute is not even comparable. The bias is pretty obvious with the baseless data being shown in this blabber (and called a column). Is someone in outlook editing the write-up for veracity of data cited? Also blatant bias is convenient exclusion of all the Opposition ruled states. Karnataka, Tamil Nadu, Uttarakhand - all have performed better than the states quoted above - of course would like to know the data source of Gujarat's.
Had Muslim not participated, what would have these authors written? They haven't forgiven and hence stayed away. When they come, they still say the same thing. Time CJP does some serious sould searching and justify its very existence. All attempts to target Shri Narendra Modiji has failed in all aspects - Legal, Electoral and Governance. Scoot now!
In the entire affair, what baffles me is the level to which Outlook has descended! Time the editorial board seriously look at their contributors (and contribution) before publishing. It does no one any good, to attempt increase in circulation by allowing a tangential opinion that tried to create a impact.
As I write this, here goes another egg on Teesta's face straightaway - SC refuses to ask Nanavati Commission to Summon Narendra Modiji.
Finally, the citizens judge whether someone has become a Statesman or remained a politician. Just as we decide whether Teestas have grown up or remained a squabbling streetfighting person.
NO,Time and Brooking is not drowned in Modi mangetism but rather your are drowned in hatred for Modi so mush so you became modern day DRUTRARASTRA.yOU ARE A CHEAP CONGRESS PAID WRITER.
Outlook cannot show reality from the perspective of a chosen few. These writers cannot have more than their share of space when it comes to Modi bashing.
"Modi has failed to provide a civilisational answer to the crisis of Gujarat"
What exactly this means?"
I am surprised that you are actually spending time reading this article.
TIME’s story on Modi’s performance and potential is no excuse for this demeaning headline.
Most Outlook articles on Modi are now descending at the level of pure nonsense than any genuine criticism.
"Modi has failed to provide a civilisational answer to the crisis of Gujarat"
What exactly this means?
"Oddly, Modi might fail by the norms set by his own hero, Swami Vivekananda"
It is not clear what norms Vivekananda set. One norm I know is he wanted to reconvert muslims back to hindus. As he put it, every convert is not only a man less, but an enemy more. Did Modi fail to reach this norm?
Anwaar .... "History shows that such unprincipled power-seekers, if allowed to reach the top, bring only disaster and dishonour to a nation."
Anwaar, tension nahi lena kaa.
If BJP ever hopes to come to power in center, and right now even with UPA-2 in a sorry state of disarray, BJP coming back is not a given, it will have to be with support of many regional allies across India (except may be Jayalalitha none of the allies want to be even seen with Modi in the same frame and BTW BJP didn't even use Modi in UP elections). This in itself will ensure Modi stays limited to Gujarat. Whether he becomes CM for life or not is for Gujaratis to decide - remember earlier Chandrababu Naidu was the poster boy of AP - nobody talks about him anymore - he appears to be lost in the wind (between Congress and YSR's son). US think tank/media rehabiliation of Modi, if that is indeed the case, will not make any difference to this uniquely Indian situation - in fact in some cases might work against the very project being attempted.
If indeed Mr. Modi himself is attempting in his own way to atone for his sins (not practising Rajya Dharma in 2002), it is OK. Sometimes in practicing to becoming good, even if it starts as a cynical excercise, might make the person good (not inherently but may be in practice which is all we should depend on anyways). Who knows - no harm in letting him try since his impact is likely to be remain very limited given our political landscape for a long time to come. Even the original thinking of the elite that may be with coilation politics eventually we might head towards a democrat (UPA) /republican (NDA) like formation doesn't seem to be visible - if anything more regionalism seems to be on display. The reason this isn't happening anytime in the near future is because no internal democracy exists in any of the parties nor is there any movement towards it - most parties are either family affairs, or one man show, or remotely controlled.
I trust the fact as for all our faults one of the genius of the desi (and hence India) is survival - we are Vishnu Bhakts mostly most times. This requires that we quickly find a moderate/pragmatic place with only very short momentary lapses into extremes to ensure survival. It has it's benefits - we might produce duplicate wanna-be Ceasars, Czars, Napoleon, Pol Pots and what nots but our genius is that they will not bubble up to the top - they will be either limited to a small region or for short-time or both. We might remain mediocre in everything we do but we will survive and outlast others - may be that is our genius - our strength. One reason why even when ugly, as in ours, Democracy is so beautiful.
Eternal vigilance of course is always good - as someone smart and bright has said - it is the price of freedom.
Anwar, your attempt to smear Modi by pretending he led mobs only shows your own venal prejudice. Modi did nothing wrong. He led no mobs - unlike the Congress Party whose murderous 1984 massacres you are quite silent to. Modi had no way of predicting the train would be burned, and certainly you show no rejection of their act. Those riots would have occurred regardless of who was Chief Minister. The LA riots of 1992 had nothing to do with the Mayor of LA or the Governor of California, they had to do with Rodney King's beating. Likewise, the post-Godhra riots had nothing to do with Modi, they were caused by the burning of the train and the innocents aboard. But Muslims don't care whom they burn to death - they only cry foul if someone retaliates.
When the 9-11 attacks occurred, Muslims were as usual only concerned about themselves. Their typical reaction in such instances, whether 9-11, 7-7, 26-11, is to first expression apprehensions about how others will perceive them. Those who can only think of themselves, and can't internalize sympathy for the suffering of others, are only a liability to society. Try to remember that those innocent pilgrims on the train did not deserve to be burned to death. If you want to blame someone for the post-Godhra riots, then blame those who burned the train.
Amazing that shamelessly plagiarising from somewhere else, neither results in removal of those paragraphs, not does it elicit any comment from Teesta's fans.
If somebody says, " Islam with its record of intolerant absolutism is not pluralistic," and I answer, "What does that have to do with this article?", all I am saying is "Do not bring up something that is not relevant." I am not saying anything about whether some Muslims or some Hindus are intolerant or not. You were trying to be "too clever by half," as the British say.
However if you made an honest mistake, I withdraw the unkind epithets I threw at you.
Your religion or lack of religion is of no interest to me. Your absolving Modi of the charge of being possibly complicit in a major massacre is noted. I have already expressed and discussed the opposite view in innumerable posts. The fact that you, a non-moderate yourself, do not encounter moderate Muslims on the web, indicates your ignorance, but you fail to note that there are hardly any moderate Hindus on this site. This forum is an excellent example of group-think. Your threat to urge revenge against Muslims if they continue to oppose Modi shows the kind of Bajrangi mentality you have. You are as bad, if not worse, than the "intolerant" Muslims you berate. You are repeating the usual Sanghi shibboleths, but with much more venom.This will be my last post in this thread.
First of all an article of this kind which is coauthored by the likes of Teesta is suspect! I find it even demeaning comment on this as the writers sound like little KG kids complaining to their teacher that ‘Modi needs to be leashed.’ The fact is that the article in “Time’ has shaken activists like Teesta who have a very specific agenda – that is to destroy Modi. And its obvious articles of this sort which will not touch corruption at the centre but attack the leaders who work for the country, will sprout like weeds and means only one thing – Modi has become a formidable power that frightens the corrupt.
Arties too is HIndu ,Jain Budhists and Sikh ways of prayers .
Dear Vinod Mehta ji
Some guidance needed here .
Chalisa is always referred to as Hindus Religious Paths or Poojas or prayers like Durga Chalisa or Hanuman Chalisa etc .
Since the Hindu Religious rituals have been jeeringly and mockingly referred in this Article so it tantamount to mocking of Hindu Rituals :
1 ARE similar mocking references to some Islamic,Chritian etc payers now onwards are allowed ?? Or that will be still hate mails and will be deleted ??
2. This Article too where persons from other Religions have mockingly referred to Hindu practices should be deleted .
I must clarify that I am follower of Sikhism though an mona Hindu but my Religion teaches respect to all other Religions .And I do respect all Religions !!
#37/D-100 - @Vaidyanathapura - "My simple submission is that if there was any credible evidence to nail mr modi it would have been found by now"
The very fact that Teesta had to manufacture fake affidavits is proof enough that there was no credible evidence. You can't blame Teesta & co for going mad when reports like the one in Time is going to have serious repurcussion on the flow of funds to secus.
This article is a clear case of, "those who live by delusion, die by it".
The same people who were thumping their chest when Modi's US visa was banned; logically as it goes, breast-beating when some good is written about him in US.
People like me, who admire Modi for his work, are calm in both situations.
Looking back at that US visa fiasco, it was a tactical mistake in their (US) part.
If one remembers that the ban came in the back drop of Indian states passing the anti-conversion law one after another.
US under the pressure of her hard-line Christen organizations retaliated.
It hardly matters in this case if it was BJP or any other party leader.
Just as if today we need to retaliate, put similar ban on some US leader, we will look for leader with weakest point, rather than a party.
Little did they know that one day this guy might come calling the PM chair in Delhi.
One must not forget the wise words, "every politics is local politics"; so was the Modi's visa one.
It indeed was graceful of PM Manmohan Singh that he condemn this in our parliament. Rising above the party politics when it came between "ghar and baahar".
And you guys writing this article, stop being sour losers. Not sure about you, but many people do know economics. Stop fiddling with numbers, that just sound desperation on your part.
And as we were always saying, and glad that you too now, lets wait for the courts to decide.
The Congress party is playing games on Modi prosecution. Even if there is 100% proof against Modi, they wouldnt arrest him fearing loss of Hindu votes. At the same time, if there is no proof against him, they wouldnt allow him to be pronounced innocent since they would lose Moslem votes. All this so called crusade against communal politics is purely for votes and nothing else. Their penchant for votes and thereby power is ruining this country. If Modi is guilty, let them put him behind bars. They fear that if Modi becomes PM ,the cellular jail in Andamans would be re-opened just to fill the top leaders of Congress. Anwaar can take up the part time job of being their cook at the jail.
PS Anwaar: Madame prefers pasta to mutton biriyani
Come and read the latest tidings from the "Religion of Peace"
And yet those who claim to speak for minorities are always cheerleading the so-called "peace process" with the Islamic apartheid state of Pakistan. I think their double standards are glaringly obvious.
>>>>The question that needs asking is whether modi fits into a vision of a society where the minorities have a place, where dissent has a place.<<<
If GUJARAT has "no place for dissent" TEESTA would have not been allowed to enter Gujarat. "No place for dissent" was when BABA RAMDEV was chased off at midnight after he was carried on the shoulders of CABINET MINISTERS of India. Mr MODI is the best CM and could be the best PM too. He will put the looters of SCAMS GALORE- 2G, CWG, ISRO, ADARSH, COALGATE etc behind bars and get the INDIAN BILLIONS from SWISS BANKS back. Mr MODI will direct POPE - whose heart bleeds for the poor- to "excommunicate" all SWISS CHRITIAN BANKERS if the Indian Billions are not returned as the "poor in India are dying of starvation" due to LOOTED INDIAN BILLIONS stashed in SWISS BANKS.
>> Finally Anwaar al-Dallasi has accepted that .....
What a malicious and mendacious comment!
Dallas, United States
Anwaar,all I pointed out is that you have said it is true but it has nothing to do with the present context. I thought it was brave of you to admit the fact that a section of persons are indeed intolerant. There is no malice or even the intent to be malicious.
I am ready to agree that there is a microscopic section of Hindus who are extremist in their beliefs.
There is absolutely no malice or the intent to do so ..... I'm sorry if you did think so ....
"All true, Sanjay, but these crooks are not the only ones who callhim Hitler ka bhai. Some of these are his innocent victims, what about them?"
The ratio of Muslim deaths to Hindu deaths in the 2002 Gujarat riots was 3:1. It was not the one-sided pogrom you pretend it was. So who killed those Hindus -- the Tooth Fairy? Modi is no Hitler, he certainly did not lead any mobs to kill anyone - even though the lying Left will claim "Modi sneezed after the train burning, which was a code signal to start rioting" -- what absolute garbage. "Modi blinked his eyes, and this communicated to others that they should riot" -- what flimflammery. "Modi was inside every police jeep. Modi was on every cellphone" -- what rubbish.
There are plenty of Muslims voting for the Congress and supporting the Congress, and they don't care that thousands of Sikhs were murdered by the Congress during the 1984 riots -- a far greater deathtoll than the Gujarat riots. They have no qualms or guilt about supporting the Congress, or about supporting Mulayam "Hallo bol" Yadav and his overtly riotous mentality. Please don't tell me that Muslims are against politicians who promote riots -- such a claim is absolutely laughable. When it comes to mob mentality, the Leftists wrote the book on the subject. Their entire approach to politics is through the mob, so please don't pretend otherwise.
Like I've said, Hitler was a socialist, and it was socialism which motivated him to commit his crimes. Trying to compare those whom you hate to Hitler while embracing socialist mob-leading politicians doesn't make your case. It only shows you to be a hypocrite.
Look at those leading mobs in Afghanistand and Pakistan, over the mere burning of books. Muslims are the first to resort to mob violence and savagery, but as soon as someone assembles a mob bigger than theirs, then suddenly they cry victim. Learn to repudiate your own Islamist mob politics before jabbing an accusing finger at others. When have you ever seen a Muslim trying to calm his own mob-minded community first, as opposed to demanding other communities show tolerance towards him?
I'm an atheist, and not a Hindu. I don't pray, I don't believe in any god, and beef and veal are my favorite foods. But I certainly support Narendra Modi, who is a hard-working innocent man who has been subjected to a smear campaign with the intent of character assassination, demonization and vilification. Those who are attacking Modi are the most dishonest crooks and opportunists.
Let me tell you that if I wanted to join a religion for the purpose of promoting tolerance, Islam would be the last choice on the list, because of its absolutely lousy record of promoting intolerance. Every day, I encounter Muslim activists on the net who claim that "if everybody joins my Islam, then there will be no more wars" - the ugly attitude of these slimeballs shows what Islamic tolerance is all about. And of course you'll find no "moderate" Muslims to oppose or argue against them. When Muslim "moderates" show their face, it's only to demand more tolerance towards their community - it's never for the purpose of telling the rest of their community to show tolerance towards others. This is the credibility of Islam. This is the track record that Islam has sought to cultivate for itself, even while disingenuously demanding goodwill from others. It's a collectivist belief system, and if you had the courage to recognize it, then you would distance yourself from that collective, or otherwise bear the consequences to your credibility from it.
The quickness and fervour with which Islamic activists have latched onto Modi shows the overwhelming tendency for groupthink in that collectivist belief system. When Hindus are massacred in Kashmir, or made to wear yellow scarves by Pakistan-created Taliban, they don't all latch onto that like the Islamist collectivists. Again, the intrinsic core nature of Hindus is not one of a monolithic majority, but of polytheistic diversity and flexibility which stands in contrast to Islamic collectivism and groupthink.
As a staunch atheist, I will continue to support Modi until the end, and if Muslims prey upon him I would urge revenge against them to ensure that their brutish regressive monolithic collective is not allowed to have the last word. It's not India which invaded and colonized the Middle East - it's the Middle East which invaded and colonized India. Just as Islamic fanatics and predatory slanderers are motivated by zeal and bloodlust, so too must those of us opposing them be zealous in thwarting their malevolent designs. They can put on whatever pretense of "justice" they want, but their collectivism shows their true intent. The voting pattern of Muslims in India, and the pattern of governance in Muslim-majority countries speaks out very clearly. If Muslims don't take steps to criticize and reform their dangerous political instincts, their relations with others will only deteriorate to the point of uniting the entire world against them.
Here is the link where Comptroller and Auditor General of India praises Gujarat govt's Fiscal Responsbility act http://deshgujarat.com/2011/04/01/cag-appreciates-modi-govts-fiscal-transparency-and-accountability/ Now what does teesta, cyrus, dharkar and nandan have to say on this???
Also Read this two liks
World's renowned magazine 'The Economist' praises Narendra Modi and also states the economic performance of Gujarat govt under Narendrabhai is really decent.
Also the famous 'Wall Street Journal' has praised Narendra Modi. Check this http://www.thenarendramodi.info/gujarat-wall-street-journal/
Now I am sure that after accusing renowned 'TIME' magazine and 'Brookings' Institution, Tessta, Nandan, Cyrus and Dharkar will also blame 'The Economist' and 'Wall Strret Journal'. It seems that these 4 "secularists" believe that only they have intelligence and renowned magazines/institutions like 'TIME', 'BROOKINGS', 'The Economist' and 'Wall Street Journal' do not have the same. God save us from these "intellectual" secularists.
First let me mention that the article written by these four louts is not only viod of substance, full of rhetoric but even has added falvour of copycat work. Let me tell the readers of this article that these 4 chaps viz Dharkar, Cyrus, Nanadan and Teesta have taken initial statictics from the article written by another self appointed Modi baiter Salil Tripathi. Those who want to confirm kindly google "Salil Triathi-Icredible impunity-Mint" and you will realize that these fools have tried to befool the readers of Outlook by almost copying excerpts from that article.
Now lets come to some figures and information which these writers have conviniently ignored about praises of Gujarat state, Gujarat govt led by Shri Narendra Modi
(1) Gujarat emerges as the fastest investment destination of India leaving behind Maharashtra and Andhra Pradesh. Check this http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/industry-and-economy/economy/article2889300.ece
(2) Gujarat receives apreciation from United Nations agency. Infact UNICEF (UN body) has already patted back of Gujarat govt for achieving rapid progress in field of Education, Health, Nutrition and Human Development. You want to confirm. Check this link. http://post.jagran.com/Gujarat-achieves-Human-Development-Index-for-2015-1306913347
(3) The writers of this article have failed to mention that same Supreme Court has appreciated Gujarat govt for having excellant Public Distribution System and also wanted that other states should follow model adopted by Gujarat. Check this out http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-09-15/india/30160014_1_food-grains-fair-price-social-audit
(4) The way these writers have shamelessly cast aspersions on the credibility of renowned magazine like TIME and even prestigious and one of the oldest institution, it only shows that they are not only full of baseless rhetoric against Narendrabhai but also biased and abuse credible institutions. For the readers of this article, I would like to inform that even revered World bank has praised Gujarat govt's work in the field of rad development and even said that the roads of Gujarat are of international standard and Gujarat govt's path of reform should be followed. Check this out http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-08-24/ahmedabad/28273169_1_road-network-highway-sector-km
(5) Also I can quote innumerable details about how Gujarat has made excellant progress under the 10 year rule of Narendrabhai. I would like to share this wonderful article which thrashes the claimes of "secularists" about Modiji's regime in Gujarat. Check here http://centreright.in/2011/10/a-decade-and-counting/#.T296l2Hrqf8
(6) As far as land of Gujarat is concerned let me tell the readers that Gujarat is the only state where despite wonderful industrialization, the area under forest cover has actully increased. Again this comes from Union Minister for enviroment and forest Ms Jayanti Natrajan who is member of CONGRESS party. Check this. (poor teesta & co your claims are getting thrashed and that too this one comes from member congress party member jayanti natrajan. I am sure now tessta & co will also blame jayanti natrajan) Check this one please. http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/forest-cover-in-guj-increases-moef/448172/
(7) Now the writers have raised issue of absence of lokyukta in Gujarat. Let me inform the writers and readers that Gujarat govt under Narendrabhai made best efforts to appoint Lokayukta in state but opposition congress has been playing dirty tricks in the matter and the appointment of lokayukta gets deferred in the state. The real truty with behind no lokayukta with timeline can be check from here http://deshgujarat.com/2011/08/29/seven-years-without-lokayuktachronology-of-dates-and-events-reveal-fact/
(8) Now the writers have mentioned about other states implementing FRBM (Fiscal Responsibility bill) in their article. However it is not important whether the sates were earlier or later in passing the bill. What is important is that the bill should be effectively passed and the law should be efficently implemented. Gujarat too has passed FRBM-Fiscal Responsibilty bill. So what if other states passed it before Gujarat. Read this. The governement's highst account vouching body i.e. CAG-Comptroller & Auditor General of India has praised FRBM-Fiscal Reposbility bill of Gujarat govt. Read it here.(again the lies of teesta & co is punctured)
(9) Apart from indstrialisation, Gujarat under Modiji has witnessed excellant growth in agriculture also. Read this. Gujarat posts recrd 16% growth rate and this rate is 4 times the rate of India's average http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_gujarat-posts-record-16pct-growth-in-agriculture-in-fy11_1664604 Now what teesta & co has to sat about this?
(10) It is due to committed efforts of Gujarat govt under Modiji that today Gujarat is all set to emerge as the largest industrilized state of India leaving behind Maharashtra http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_gujarat-may-become-indias-largest-industrial-state_1666158 Now what will teesta do about this?
(11) Also it is important to note that as per Sachar committee report Muslims of Gujarat are having much better life compared to their peers from other states. Also Muslims of Gujarat have highest per capita income compared to their peers from other states. Also the literacy rates of muslims in Gujarat are much bette than figures from other states. Read this http://blog.lkadvani.in/blog-in-english/sachar-committee-tell-tale-facts-about-muslims-in-gujarat
(12) Also the secularists wh shed crocodile tears about the conditions of muslims in Gujarat should know that Gujarat is the only state which provides highest benefits meant for OBCs to muslims. infact as many as 34 various groups and sub casts of muslims are provided OBC benefits. It is important to note that no other state is able to provide OBC benefits to muslims groups to this great level. What is important is that truth is totally different from what is portrayed. Muslims of Gujarat are the biggest beneficary of OBC benfits compared to their peers from the other states. Check the list of muslims getting OBC benefits in Gujarat over here http://www.tn.gov.in/bcmbcmw/obc/faq/gujarat.pdf
(13) Also just like tessta & co some other self appointed "secularists" were levelling fake allegations about damage to land, environment, mangrove etc in Gujarat. Read this CONGRESS party member and Union minister Jiram Ramesh has praised Gujarat govt for taking poractive steps in preservation of mangroves and even asked maharashtra govt to emulate Gujarat http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/todays-paper/tp-economy/article995501.ece?ref=archive
(14) Now the statistics which they have quoted are also taken from elsewhere and that too are half baked. Read the rebuttal of Salil Tripathis's article (same article from where this teesta & co has mentioned certain data) over here http://centreright.in/2012/03/incredible-ingenuity/#.T29xCGHrqf8
(15) Now what sort of person is teesta and whare are her credentials can be also verifed from this article. Qutubddin Ansari whose crying face is often used by these so called "secularists" to tar Narendrabhai and Gujarat. Same Nasari is being harassed by Teesta which again is deliberately ignored by "Secular" media. Check this. Ansari is fed up with teesta and demands help to save himself from Teesta. http://indiawires.com/8161/news/national/save-me-from-teesta-and-mahesh-bhatt-face-of-gujarat-riots/
The reason I have provided all the data with links is that since last 10 years the self styled self appointed so called champions of humar rights like teesta, dharkar etc have been tweaking and twisting facts to furhter their malicious agenda of defaming Narendrabhai, Gujarat govt, Gujarat state and above all people of Gujarat who have been consitently voting for Narendrabhai who works tirelessly for the state. As a Gujarati I am proud of Gujarat govt. Lets see if teesta, dharkar, nandan and cyrus can respond to this factual data which I have shared over here.
So, Modi is lucky, his state is full of Gujaratis, not impressive achievement compared to other states, etc. The writers I wonder ever heard of deductive & inductive logic! The Tatas, Bajajs, Ambanis', and so many national and multi-national are bunch of rich fools that cannot understand the simple economics; and are bent on trashing their and their ancestors hard-earned wealth simp[y because, either they are mesmerised by the Modi charleton, or they are probably Muslim-bashers! These kind of myopia & implied logic by none other than Setalvad & co. who in their life never attempted to try to sell even peanuts on the curb side, let alone understand the compexities of business and economic growth.
Msrs Setalvad & Co, as long as, you and the like NGOs do not get enough courage and integrity to criticise with equal enthusiasm the Rajiv Gandhis, Pawars and all those rulers in Delhi and Mumbai (then Bombay) who presided, condoned and systemically & ruthlessly spearheaded the killings of thousandas of minority community members, you have zero credibility. Zilch. People like you have, as Swapandas Gupta said, have created a cottage industry out of Gujarat Riots, and at the same time either deliberately ignored or outright condoned more gruesome killings in other parts of the country. Please search your own souls before slinging mud on others.
And BTW, the Gujaratis did not happen when Modi came on the scene, They are there for milenia. And Gujaratis were there under decades of Congress misrule, go figure!
>> Finally Anwaar al-Dallasi has accepted that .....
What a malicious and mendacious comment!
>> When confronted with the fact that Islam ....
Are you too dense to understand that this article and this discussion is not about Islam or Hinduism? It is about Modi, about the Gujarat massacre and about the apotheosis of the undeserving. It is about communalism but not about religion. Just because you are stupid enough to bring in religion here, I do not have to respond to it.
>> you only want to talk about tolerance by others towards you.
Obviously you are new in this forum. I have condemned intolerance whereever I see it.
The rest of your post is just pure venom. You must be an embarrassment to other Hindu posters here. Get some help for their sake as well as yours.
In one line the authors say "His technocratic credentials are not in doubt,....." and few lines later they say " Investment and development, even with the distorted statistics bandied around, are poor substitutes for such a vision."
So if his technocratic credentials are not in doubt, then how are the statistics distorted? And if statistics are distorted, then how can his technocracy be credential?
But its really amusing to see all these people getting their knickers in a twist getting a wedgie everytime something good is written about Modi. And it is amusing to see the excuses being dished out:
a) No there is no development in Gujarat
b) there is development in Gujarat, but other states are doing equally well or even better
c) There is development in Gujarat, but it is not due to Modi. The Gujaratis are natuarally enterprising and therefore are doing better
d) The people of Gujarat hate Muslims like Modi does and vote for him as they are all communal
e) Modi is winning elections because they are rigged and they are not free and fair.
Depending upon the day of the week, pick an excuse and bash Modi. I think they should start a board game about this. Would be a hit with the psecs.
She either has an agenda of her own or is serving the agenda of a moneyed clique.
>> "The only MUSLIM CRICKET HEroes come from Gujarat... " - Pankaj
They may be your heroes. Or my heroes (though Munaf is such a lousy bowler). Not necessarily theirs. Their heroes come from Azamgarh.
when we were all thinking 1.75 lakh crose 2G scam is a slap on the face of the nations poor who starve to death due to the incompentence of the nations's government - new breaks out of 10.75 lakh crore coal allotment scam - and all these perverts are worried about is a report on Modi by foreign media .enough said
The media often says-
1) Modi is communal.
2) Gujaratis are communal.
Muslims are suffering yet.....The only MUSLIM CRICKET HEroes come from Gujarat...
Zaheer Khan came from Baroda, Yousuf & Irfan Pathan come from Baroda (Baroda= Best bakery) Munaf comes from Bharuch but played in Baroda...If there was no support to these guys in a communally charged Gujarat; how did they excel?
EXACTLY because they were not carrying a minority TAG on their chests.
PoorJyotiThottam, Taking on Indian Secular warriors is always fraught with risk.Ditto for the blogger for Brookings Institution, whose praise of Modi is sure to raise the hackles of secular brigade!Years of labour by these warriors has been dented by two thoughtless write-ups.If you must famialarise US citizens with India start writing about true secular heroes.Avoid Modi at all costs.Who knows ,reach of our secular pundits is long enough to get such writings and publications banned in India.
The authors have several questions for which my response would be as follows:
The question is: Where does Modi fit into a vision of decent society in which the minorities and those in the margins have a place, in which dissent has a place?
The answer is the same society which whole of India wants to be in and every political party is trying to find that society in the way they think and mr modi is no different from any one else. Do the authors think that dissent has a place in all other political parties.
Is Modi’s future a participative future and a pluralistic one?
Mr modi will have to abide by his party principles and if his party does not represent the participative future and a pluralistic one then he will fall by the way side.
His technocratic credentials are not in doubt, but his vision of democracy needs to be examined.
Who decides what is the vision of democracy. Who, better than the electorate, to decide the vision of democracy. Democracy is not uni-dimensional and also not simple, but complex.
Oddly, Modi might fail by the norms set by his own hero, Swami Vivekananda.
Firstly the swami was a philosopher and not a politician and mr modi has acted firmly with conviction in his own beliefs and come out successful and this to me is following the swami.
Modi has failed to provide a civilisational answer to the crisis of Gujarat.
Pray, may I ask what is the crisis in Gujarat that mr modi has to answer and that, too civilisationally. Have their been riots post 2002, Have the minorities not progressed under mr modi. Why has not the congress taken up the civilisational issues and addressed the same as there would be considerable political mileage for it.
Investment and development, even with the distorted statistics bandied around, are poor substitutes for such a vision.
Mr modi is a simple no nonsense unconventional politician who is trying to run a state government and according to information from the central government he has been doing a good job. Even the authors themselves acknowledge his technocratic credentials and his penchant for investment and development. Would the authors care to explain what the good substitutes are.
First of all what is this article trying to tell us. What do the authors want mr modi to do.
Let us assume two scenarios:
1) mr modi was complicit and he allowed hindus to vent their anger. Now, the congress government in the centre and all those who have taken up cases against mr modi are trying their level best to find evidence to nail mr modi. The situation is now being monitored by the highest court of the land. So far mr modi has not been found to be guilty. My simple submission is that if there was any credible evidence to nail mr modi it would have been found by now and mr modi could be censured/prosecuted/sent to jail. Do the authors think that the congress is foolish enough to have the evidence and not use it to nail mr modi. Do the authors believe that mr modi will simply plead guilty and put himself and his party at peril. Do they realize that he is a politician just like any other politician and he is thick skinned and he will not allow anybody to run over him. He expects his opponents to give him a great fight and he will retaliate with whatever he has got. The moot point here is that he has not allowed such diversions to impinge upon his primary task of governance for which his electorate has given him a mandate not once but twice. If mr modi is guilty why has not the congress found the evidence to nail him.
2) mr modi is not guilty and whatever happened in 2002 was a communal riot of the worst kind. Have all the detractors of mr modi ever considered such a situation and wondered whether the story could have been worse had mr modi really allowed hindus to vent their anger. Could you juxtapose this event with the event of the sikh riots in 1984. Would you say the congress allowed the Sikhs to be murdered and if the congress really had allowed could not have the numbers been much larger. Now, if mr modi is not guilty why should he take it lying down. He will fight to retain his honour and he is doing it.
Unfortunately in the event of 2002, politics has taken centre stage over prudence. It is high time congress puts a stop to all this by doing either of the two things a) fast track all cases and get a fair verdict and take appropriate action based on the verdict or b) stop targeting mr modi and concentrate on running the government in the centre (which unfortunately it has not been able to do in its upa 2 tenure).
This targeting of mr modi seems to be the undoing of the congress and it will be a wonder if it can regain power in the next general elections whenever it happens.
First of all the authors of this piece need to be taken to task for plagiarism. They have plagiarized the entire first part from Salil Tripathi’s article and that too without acknowledging the author, which speaks volumes about their intellectual credibility.
Second we see deliberate vilification of any person of body that praised Narendra Modi in the past. Till now Brookings was a reputed think tank but now its reputation stands sullied. Its only crime- to praise Modi with facts and reporting the situation from the ground. The whole world praises TIME but now this group finds TIME culpable as well. This is very wrong.
Thirdly, the ‘aarti’ or ‘chalisa’ stands nowhere close to the endless Vedas and Puranas Teesta & Co. have penned in disregarding anything that Narendra Modi has stood for and the good he has done for Gujarat.
As responsible citizens, lets debate issues without biases and add constructively to the process of peace and justice in our nation. Narendra Modi has done it in Gujarat, its time others learn from him.
[If I were a crook like Mayawati and using private jets to ferry sandals, if I was mob-leader like Mulayam, if I was chasing away job-creating auto factories like Mamta, if I was guilty of massacring thousands during the 1984 riots like the 'Gandhian' Congress partymen -- then I'd be calling Modi a 'Hitler' too, in the hopes of drowning out my own ugly record.]
All true, Sanjay, but these crooks are not the only ones who callhim Hitler ka bhai. Some of these are his innocent victims, what about them?
>> Islam with its record of intolerant absolutism is not pluralistic.
What does that have to do with this article?
Dallas, United States
Finally Anwaar al-Dallasi has accepted that "intolerant absolutism" does exist atleast among a section of persons of his faith ....
Anwaar - no, it's you who exhibits more hate than sense.
When confronted with the fact that Islam has the worst record of intolerance, you simply shrug and say, "So what? What does it have to do with the article?" That sums up your attitude: "So what? Why should I criticize myself, when I prefer to only criticize others?"
Your lack of credibility stems from your one-sided communal approach to tolerance: ie. you only want to talk about tolerance by others towards you. You don't at all want to talk about your community's tolerance towards others (because you know your religious community has a lousy record on that). People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. You're the pot calling the kettle black.
Buddy, the only ones who try to use the word "civilization" as an adjective ("civilizational") or as an adverb ("civilizationally") are pretentious peacocks on the Left, whose abysmal track record of governance have given India absolutely minimal achievements to speak of, thus forcing these Leftists to fall back on wallowing in civilizational pride, as if they were each hosting a National Geographic special. We NRIs prefer to take pride in our own actual accomplishments and achievements, unlike professional coattail-riders and hangers-on like yourselves, who have no accomplishments to their name.
Don't lecture me on which one of us is more well-read, Anwaar. I think even the most cursory glance at each of our postings shows the difference in quality. What are your qualifications again?
>> Islam with its record of intolerant absolutism is not pluralistic.
>> You have no credibility in discussing human rights.
That is a very stupid comment.. What does a person's religion have to do with his credibility in discussing human rights?
>> Who the hell tries to use "civilization" as an adjective?
If you have not seen the word "civilizational" being used, your reading must be very limited. You exhibit more hate than sense. Get some professional help, please!
Let me answer this babbling Anwaar, who only tries to talk past the points raised by others, instead of addressing them. Islam with its record of intolerant absolutism is not pluralistic, whereas a polytheistic religion is the natural forerunner of pluralism. Physician, Heal Thyself.
Take a look at countries where Islam is in the majority, and you'll see no rights for minorities. Take a look at countries where Islam is in the minority, and all they do is screech about minority rights to exclusion of all else.
"Where my religion is in the minority, we'll only talk about minority rights, and nobody else's rights. Where my religion is in the majority, then minorities will have no rights, and we will treat them like 3rd-class citizens."
You have no credibility in discussing human rights, when you can't even see much less acknowledge the asymmetric view that your culture takes on the subject.
Islam is a collectivist religion, whereas polytheism is inherently diverse - and this is shown by the voting patterns. The so-called Hindu "majority" shows an extremely diverse voting pattern, whereas the so-called Muslim "minority" votes as a bloc.
You have no case to make, other than what you can contrive by repeating the same lies over and over again. There's your "civilizational" answer.
And what kind of stupidly pretentious phrase is that? "Civilizational"? Really? What pedantic nonsense, spewed by idiots. Who the hell tries to use "civilization" as an adjective? Only 3rd-rate preening peacocks who think they're living inside a National Geographic documentary. Pathetic.
>> "The question is: Where does Modi fit into a vision of decent society in which the minorities and those in the margins have a place, in which dissent has a place? Is Modi’s future a participative future and a pluralistic one? His technocratic credentials are not in doubt, but his vision of democracy needs to be examined. Oddly, Modi might fail by the norms set by his own hero, Swami Vivekananda. Modi has failed to provide a civilisational answer to the crisis of Gujarat. Investment and development, even with the distorted statistics bandied around, are poor substitutes for such a vision. In Americanising him, the reports reveal the modernist flaw deep within his programme."
These are crucial issues that the saffron brigade in this forum is either unwilling or unable to confront. They are all too willing to accept useless clean chits given to Modi by grossly defective investigations and have no hesitation in holding up as a potential savior of the country a man who may be complicit in the massacre of a minority community. One wonders whether they really admire him for the economic progress as they say, or for nothing better than his possibly having facilitated the anti-Muslim pogrom.
The secular brigade in this forum,will now target even a broad minded,truly secular,deeply religious Catholic Christian, like Hilda Raja as a communal person for her not being anti-Modi.
The trustees of Justice and Peace is a dicotomy because it wants neitherJustice nor Peace and the organisation suffers from an incurable disease-namely Modi phobia.It is simply obssessed with Modi bashing and that does not reveal an character of unbias.Time magazine is not a third rate yellow journal.It had done its homework well and hence gave a correct picture of Modi ji and his achievements.On the other hand the NGO citozens for Justice and Peace are opposed to Modi-good and bad-they are prejudiced and are fighting false and foisted cases.It wants to call reality a mirage and fool people.It suits the vested interest of the NGO to which funds flow and anti Modi is a channel to let garner these funds.How can an NGO with vested intest be truthful?It is for people who live in Gujarat and who experince the climate of peace and harmony who have the authenticity to prove Modi.I am one such.It seems to me that some are stuck in the quicksand of time-and the NGO Citizens for Justice and Pace are stuck in theGujarat riots.As though that was the first riotin India-nay even in Gujarat.Nobody is stuck in the Sikh massacre and in the Bhopal gas tragedy which was the biggest global industrial genocide.Even today unlike the victims of the Gujarat riots these Bhopal survivors are living in the hell of pain and and in the slow throes of death.But no NGO faults the then Congress governments both at the State and the Centre for this blatant betrayal of the Indian people.They gave an airplane to allow Warren Anderson to escape the Justice of this land.Similarly the Sikh massacre-the brutality in which the minority community was targetted and slained is put behind.Why only thisselective amnesia for Gujarat riots.A riot is a riot and cannot be withheld easily.As CM Modi did what a CM had to do-tried his best to control the upsurge of anger of the affected.But mob psychology.is mob passion uncontrolable easily.Gujarat and its Muslim community have moved forward since then-but the organistion and its vested interest persons do not want the Muslims and the Hindus to live in harmony for their selfish aims.Why pick at Modi who had since then won twice the trust of the people of Gujarat and is the best CM in India.Can truth become a lie by simply stating lies?The trustees of the NGO Peaceand Justice should not become victims of their goulish designs in the Modi bashing obsession for vested interest of their own.
Pretentiously calling yourself secular is not the same as actually being secular. Some people have merely sought to hijack and appropriate such titles for themselves, with the ambitious hopes of contriving a moral highground over others.
Modi's Gujarat and its high quality of life are tangibly there for all to see, and not mere slogans or rhetoric. The contrasting failures of the pretentious Left are likewise there for all to see. If I were a crook like Mayawati and using private jets to ferry sandals, if I was mob-leader like Mulayam, if I was chasing away job-creating auto factories like Mamta, if I was guilty of massacring thousands during the 1984 riots like the 'Gandhian' Congress partymen -- then I'd be calling Modi a 'Hitler' too, in the hopes of drowning out my own ugly record.
Fake liberals like Outlook and their slander brigade (the pretentiously named "Citizens for Justice and Peace") have gotten a bad case of hemmrhoids over Time's article on Modi. The reality is that even just a visit to Gujarat will show how much more developed it is in comparison to the deplorably run hellholes of UP or WBengal. Muslims certainly aren't flocking to leave Gujarat for those unsightly dumps - rather, they're queuing up to get into Modi's Gujarat. It's precisely because of Modi's strong ethical character that the state has made such progress on development.
Meanwhile, one has to wonder how the Teesta Setelvaads and her brood are able to obsessively fixate over Modi while giving a free pass to Sonia's Congress Party, whose partymen personally led mobs to massacre thousands of Sikhs. This is the same party which never hesitates to adorn itself with the name of Mahatma Gandhi. Physicians, heal thyselves first, before lecturing others.
Outlook spent most of his recent articles bashing Modi, some were very obnoxious that it would normally reject. But I have not seen any article here in the past discussing some article in another newspaper. It looks outlook is really hurt by article in Time by Modi.
It'll be interesting to see this 'clean chit' if it ever actually is given. Until then...meaning if wishes were horses Modi might be PM, but till that happy day in Parzania (where there are moutains of chocolate and rivers of coca cola) we have to wait and see.
So far: no clean chit. What can this mean?
@ PB Joshipura
[Modi bashing article after Modi bashing article, from the forum it is clear that Modi supporters out number Modi bashers, 10:1, 20:1, 50:2 100:3 etc.]
Certainly seems to be the case with people who comment on Outlook. Can't actually draw any conclusions from this about the rest of the country - in fact the only thing one can say is that comments here are completely unrepresentative - because otherwise Modi would either be PM already or in jail already. Neither of which is the case.
[yet, Outlook keeps on publishing anti-Modi articles. I wonder why? Does Outlook have a secret information that some how Modi-bashing articles are making it more popular? After publishing Modi-bashing article, Outlook is selling more copies?]
It gets them more hits from people (like your goodself, and my goodself) who feel moved to write a comment, respond to comments, argue, etc. This means that they can charge more for advertising spots on their website. Being deliberately provocative delivers a commercial return.
So, just to be helpful, I suggest that Modi is Hitler ka bhai. Discuss!
Modi bashing article after Modi bashing article, from the forum it is clear that Modi supporters out number Modi bashers, 10:1, 20:1, 50:2 100:3 etc. yet, Outlook keeps on publishing anti-Modi articles. I wonder why? Does Outlook have a secret information that some how Modi-bashing articles are making it more popular? After publishing Modi-bashing article, Outlook is selling more copies? Or Outlook's Editorial board's personal haterate towards Mr. Modi, is at work? And hell with the readers liking?
Trust Outlook to give people (like the authors of this article) a forum to express their ridiculous views, riddled with misinformation and vicious malicious propaganda. What is Outlook's interest in furthering such retrograde opinions like this one & Arundhati Roy's article (on capitalism)? The jury is out on this.
OutLook has collection of JOKERS Journ.This pseudosecular like other have same senil brain which cannot see the truth becuse they are so much blinded by their arrogant,stupid idelogy.They are becoming jealous when Times and Brooking write some positive about Modi and realizing that their dream of knocking Modi out from political scene is not fruitified.I read sometime back there are lots of pseudosecular journ in Dehli area unemployed and looking for job nad here comes congress party to their rescue if they propagate lies against modi.Also Teesta and other like minded so called activist are paid by congress party and foreing funds to do propaganda against Modi.Well looks like they are all looser against Indian Public opinion.By the way after riots more muslims from UP has moved to Modi's Gujarat for betterment which samajwadi party cannot give them.MODI is capapble of bringing a big ECONOMIC revolutuin in INDIA unlike congress party.
Modi is business friendly. Look at the thriving cottage industry of Teesta & co.
Modi wants to bribe his way out by being corporate friendly, gaining support from the corporate honchos (and hence silence the media too, as media is dependant on the corporates). Thanks to relentless efforts of people like Teesta working against extremely powerful/hostile elements, Modi is having a hard time in spite of all this big money and corporate support. All one can say, is hats off to the activists.
>> "Where does Modi fit into a vision of decent society in which the minorities and those in the margins have a place, in which dissent has a place?"
There is no bigger rebuttal of this crap than the fact that the rabid jokers like Teesta have the freedom to operate in Gujarat. One must look at how Anna and Ramdev were handled to appreciate the freedom that the sickular gang enjoys in Gujarat.
>> "Oddly, Modi might fail by the norms set by his own hero, Swami Vivekananda. Modi has failed to provide a civilisational answer to the crisis of Gujarat. "
When Swami Vivekananda was alive, the Mullah apologists used to brand him with choicest abuses. It was much later that his vision started getting appreciated. What is meant by 'civilisational answers'? Last heard, the Muslims have been doing pretty well in Gujarat. Gujarat is one state where Muslims are fighting elections under and voting for BJP. If these jokers acknowledge the 'civilisational answers' only when someone utters "Osama ji" with a bent back, Gujarat is the wrong state to be in.
>> "It is time that the Modi myth is taken apart systematically." - Santosh John Samuel
There are two 'myths' (depending on which side you are on) that surround Modi. One, about his alleged complicity in 2002 riots. Second, is about the extraordinary (by Indian standards) governance of the Gujarat govt.
The onion-layered myths on 2002 riots seems to be losing the race now, the SIT 'clean chit' being the first formal lid on the sickular propaganda. The frustration of the sickular gang is very evident now. Of particular amuse is to see Teesta behaving like a deranged woman on TV debates. But, this battle is yet to reach any conclusion. No reason to deny or celebrate any of the two 'myths' yet.
Very appropriate response to TIME/Brookings' hack journalism. One of Modi's signature talents is self-promotion and self-advertisement. He has created a huge state machinery to keep himslelf in the limelight, to project himself as a strong leader in national and international arenas, and to recreate a white-washed record on his conduct during the 2002 massacre that the Raghavan SIT and the Nanavati Commission are just too eager to swallow. History shows that such unprincipled power-seekers, if allowed to reach the top, bring only disaster and dishonour to a nation.
Another article on Modi? Don't you have anything else to write about?
Outlook really needs to start paying some royalty to him.
>>>>>>>The question that needs asking is whether modi fits into a vision of a society where the minorities have a place, where dissent has a place.<<<<<<
In 1947 India was divided- Pakisatan was made- because a "specific religious group" felt that they can not live in India which has a HINDU MAJORITY. In 1971, India increased the option by 100%- created an additional nation- Bangladesh- for people who felt so. There after an INDIAN CAN NOT BE MINORITY IN INDIA. Any INDIAN who feels that they are MINORITY in India must migrate from India to whereever they feel that they do not feel the oppressiveness of being MINORITY. Any takers???? The PARSEES who are the "absolute MINORITY" in India has never been heard making such a STUPID staement. SO WHY THIS "KOLAVERI DI"??????? If you do not like India and feel that as an Indian you are MINORITY in India - GET OUT--- "GET OUT" for good. Believe you me- no Indian will miss you.
That you guys hate Modi is acceptable, that newsmedia gets paid by rulers to get positive reveiws is understandable, that you guys get free space (in return for cash, of course) in national newsmagazines to spew venom on anyone from Modi to Anna Hazare is tolerable, that irrespective of credentials or credibility you challenge reputed newsmagazines such as TIME is probably even foolhardishly appreciable.
But please dont make it so blatant as where your livelihood is coming from, by giving such instances in your article. -
''. The Congress, though weak as an opposition, has highlighted a major issue. Land is being bequeathed to major corporations like Tatas and Adanis on easy terms, transforming public lands into private goods.''
"An Aarti From Time, A Brookings Chalisa" -
The subtitle of "An iconoclastic tirade against the Kafir" would've been apt. Curiously the article starts well with giving dev-stat figures (well, there was only one such occurrence) and comparing them against the other states. Abruptly the figures evaporate and usual accusations surface. And are there no photos (to "balance") which are worthy of printing, of those attackers who've attacked and burnt alive people in Sabarmati coach with such scord and hatred which even could not be dreamt of in our wildest of our dreams ? It was also a "failure" of Mr.Modi, no ?
Which section of Muslims is voting for Modi? Two, is a vote for Modi a legitimation of Modi or is it a shotgun wedding of a community that is desperate to survive
Which section of Muslims is voting for Modi? Two, is a vote for Modi a legitimation of Modi or is it a shotgun wedding of a community that is desperate to survive
Meaningless question ! It could also be a vote for good governance. Why? If not, they have the option to abstain from voting to him, which doesnt seem to be the case. How do these all-know-how(lers) know that muslims are not voting to Mr.Modi in Guj ?
ANIL DHARKER , CYRUS GUZDER , NANDAN MALUSTE , TEESTA SETALVAD
Reason enough not to contemplate reading the article. The riot cottage industry is perennially encouraged by the mainstream media to throw mud against Modi.
Being blatantly pro corportate/big-business can get one to time magazine. Exaggeration of supposed development by a individiual, is needed to camaflouge crimes - and as a subtle excuse to support (or at least overlook) the individiual and his crimes. Not the first time such a thing is seen in world history. Only saving grace is that none of those lasted long.
Thank OutLook that it has clubbed in one Article four anti Hindu hate mongers viz Anil Dharker , Cyrus Guzder , Nandan Maluste , Teesta Setalvad .We have been saved from their individual poisonous froth spitting on Gujarat .
We are grateful Mehta sahib for exceptional and rarely bestowed small mercy .Thank you Sir !
Modi must be part of a NDA Government @ the Centre.
According to the likes of Teesta,even Time magazine has turned communal or it has been 'Paid' by 'Friends of Modi' to put him on the cover.Imagine,it it were to be Rahul on the cover,the same writers would have gone ga-ga on the fairness of that magazine.Infact an article of this type is not required at all with a surfeit of 'Hate Modi' articles for 12 long years.
Just a name like Ms Shitwala is a certainty that any rebuttal point-by-point or otherwise would be an excercise in futility. For as a private citizen living both in Delhi and Vadodara I know first-hand that in Vadodara I have a peace and comfort of reliable water and electricity supply, my internet will run reliably, the roads and infrastructure has improved considerably, rubbish collection works better, industries have come, and generally I do no see here the wretched poverty I see in the capital. Am I grateful to Modi for all this ? You bet I am. But then let the Dogs bark.
All that people care about is development, peace and corruption-free, responsive policitcal administration- amply shown by Gujarat under Modi. All other talk is mere hyogwash. CJP and dozens others would yell ad infinitum, and won't make a difference. I have met people (ordinary) from various parts of India, and am yet to come across one who does not admiore Gujarat under Modi. In fact, they too want -like politicians who strive to do something, than just promising or patronizing own family. India has to suffer much before this is rewalized by all politicos and Modi-like CMS rise in all states to bring India to its destined place in the World.
As to the so called plight of the minoroty, the roof-top-shouting-brigades need to look around (in other countries) to find many other worthy (?) examples to espouse.
the more liberals are unable to understand that while existential qs about secular beliefs are important......secular parties HAVE NOT delivered the goods in terms of basic facilities and justice.
Justice is also about other civil matters and many other minorities like elite Parsis seem to have a great equation with Modi.
as far as the US or Europe go, remember they do very good business with China and so if they find that other secular parties are both corrupt and inefficient......they may want to talk to Modi.
I am not a Modi fan but the fact remains that more and more people in corridors of power in the west are aware how corrupt the Indian elite is both monetarily and otherwise.
It is time that the Modi myth is taken apart systematically. Hopefully this article has begun that exercise.
Nice to see Outlook not resorting to yellow journalism sometimes. Times magazine has Murdoch's involvement. The magazine culture can be guessed. No wonder it is only TIMES, and not GOOD TIMES or BAD TIMES. Magazine is known for inflating pride to propel the target into thin air when his fall is confirmed. That's why I love TIMES !! :-D