Apropos The Snake Oil Salesman (Mar 26), ten years removed from Godhra, the Muslims in Gujarat are a cowed lot. They just want to stay below the radar and get on with their lives. Ergo, Modi’s job becomes that much easier.
Sheila Kumar, on e-mail
With all the international attention on Modi, it’s time to balance the books, is it?
Bonita, Chennai
Who has demanded of Aakar Patel to compare Manmohan Singh with Modi in terms of Indian macroeconomics? What is the logic behind such a frivolous comparison?
Ajay Pant, Moradabad
So? What are you trying to say? That Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi are best suited to run the country? You would have an easier time trying to prove that the sun rises in the West.
D. Adalarasu, Coimbatore
“Malicious distortion?” This from someone who’s indulged a bit in it himself? Paraphrasing one of Patel’s arguments: if Hindus in Gujarat were enraged, it is because they were provoked. Who said it was a justification to kill anyone?
Kiran Bagchi, Mumbai
Patel has a preconceived point and premise that he wants to drive home. For this, he weaves a web of caste, Gujju psyche and the insider view of a Gujarati journalist. The attempt to draw a contrast between Manmohan Singh and Modi is a joke.
Kautilya, Washington DC
My my, by what yardstick do you say “Manmohan Singh is a fine leader”? Is Manmohan “governing India well”?
Ramana, Hyderabad
He’s comparing a BJP majority leader with the UPA primus’s coalition dharma. It’s apples and oranges. He’d have done better to compare the Modi government with the performances of the Congress majority governments in Gujarat (1960-1990).
P.B. Joshipura, Virginia, US
Narendra Modi has done no development in last 10 years. All the development has been taken place only because of 6 croroe of Gujaratis. Modi has done huge corruption and that is why he is so scared of Lokayukta. People of Gujarat are so fed up of Modi that they dont want to see him back in power. Modi knows that he is loosing his ground and that is why he is coming so harsh on his critics. Plus he is projecting himself as next PM to be at least a CM. The fact is, Modi is loosing this election too
Narendra Modi is a leader only and only for the industrialist not for a common man! If narendra modi becomes the CM third time, he will sale out entire Gujarat.....
>> Not obvious to fifth columnists who have very little respect for due process. Not so! The conspiracy theory was blown to smithereens not only by Tehelka tapes, but by several groups and persons, Hindus, leftists and liberals, who visited Godhra in the immediate wake of the tragedy.
Only fifth columnist believe that ‘leftists’, ‘liberals’ and Tehelka opinion have more value than a court ruling. If these fifth columnists had their way, we would not need any courts, no facts, no evidence, no questioning, no cross-questioning – only the opinion of liberals to settle cases.
>>If your hero Modi was so concerned about preventing a retaliation, he should have
He should have, he could have, shouldn’t have …. its impossible to please jihadis.
>> Banerjee report says fire was caused by Kar Sevaks while cooking. So I will repeat the question – were burning rags thrown into the compartment or did Kar Sevaks land up immolating themselves? >>It could be either.
If it could be one, then it could not be the other! Then it could also be the that jihadi mullas torched the compartment full of pilgrims which the court also agreed with!
>>I did and I would do it again to show what a malicious liar he is.
And I said it was an irrelevant whine of a stuck pig loser!
>>So why didn't you go to one, you moron!
Because I also wanted to learn how jihadis like you think!
>>Kautilya's post was in response to Irreverent's post, "
Your response was to Kautilya not to Irreverent. And Kautiliya spoke about media and seculars not the Muslim community.
>>The violence started erupting after we had these sickular bigots clapping in unison, saying "they had it coming".
Even Irreverent’s comment spoke about secular bigots and not Muslim community. Do you have any shame? After you have been repeatedly exposed, you go around making a total ass of yourself
>>The previous point makes it irrelevant. As far as this discussion is concerned, the word "Muslim" is written large on it.
As far as as the discussion “Muslim” it is written large to a despicable low life who wants make every discussion about the Muslim community. It is written large only to jihadi mullahs who make mockery of cold blooded murder of kafir pilgrims. It is written large only to immoral douche bags whose attitude and thinking will ensure that there can never be amity amongst communities in India.
It is better to have 2,000 Muslims killed in riots '
Narendra
Nearly 60000 Muslims have been killed during various Secu Raj .But friends say they will discuss only Gujarat .Basically whole Muslim Samaj is taking out their feelings of frustrations and guilt of condoning those 60,000 deaths of Muslims on Gujaratis and Modi.
It is just blind Secu Swami Bhakati which seals their mouths , close their eyes and ears .Just remind them what about those unfortunate 60,000 and then you have it.
Aakar Patel is not different .He too is suffering from pangs of similar Hubris & loss of contact with reality.
but I do sometimes use unparliamentary language against hate merchants and liars like yourself.' Faruki
Sir don't write looking yourself in mirror as advised earlier .You end up perfectly describing yourself .
Not going to reply to the points that you made above, you have some unhealthy sense of competition that seems to retard your thinking, you know in which context we bring up these points.
Why blame Aakar Patel for it?
Well, it's his thread, on other threads where some pseudo intellectuals target Modi, we keep asking them this question, you know we do.
So why did you bring in Egalitarian Marxist in the first place?
Thank you for coming clean.
This will be my last comment in this thread.
Bye, just keep these things in mind, the same applies for Patel, Baqvi, Roy, Bidwai and other Modi bashers.
1.A party that killed 30,000 Sikhs is not a fair trade off for a party that killed 2,000 Muslims
2.It is better to have 2,000 Muslims killed in riots rather than have 6,000 starve to death everday.
RSM,
>> Not obvious to fifth columnists who have very little respect for due process.
Not so! The conspiracy theory was blown to smithereens not only by Tehelka tapes, but by several groups and persons, Hindus, leftists and liberals, who visited Godhra in the immediate wake of the tragedy. Dyed- in-wool communalists like yourself would fall for any conspiracy theory that Modi's prosecutors come up with.
>> Whenever there was a terrorist attack aided by Pakistan, did you see Hindu retaliation against Muslims?
If your hero Modi was so concerned about preventing a retaliation, he should have announced loudly and repeatedly that the cause of the fire was under investigation and that no one should jump to any conclusions. He should also not have paraded the charred bodies through the streets of Gujarat.
>> Banerjee report says fire was caused by Kar Sevaks while cooking. So I will repeat the question – were burning rags thrown into the compartment or did Kar Sevaks land up immolating themselves?
It could be either. But if you call it spontaneous combustion, I have to attribute it to your poor madrasa education.
>> You can say Modi blamed terrorists.
I did and I would do it again to show what a malicious liar he is.
>> There are places other than madrassas to get an education.
So why didn't you go to one, you moron!
>> Repeat the words ‘media’ and ‘sickulars’ a hundred times.
Kautilya's post was in response to Irreverent's post, " The violence started erupting after we had these sickular bigots clapping in unison, saying "they had it coming". The Mullahdom and their sickular apologists must realize nobody's patience is unlimited." Your lawyerly skills do not hide your habit of lying.
>> This is what Vir Sanghvi wrote.
The previous point makes it irrelevant. As far as this discussion is concerned, the word "Muslim" is written large on it. Some idiots even start their comments with "Anwaar miya"!
>> THERE WAS NO PROVOCATION! It is fitting that you should end your post with a blatant and despicable lie! My last post in this thread.
This is worst article of Aakar Patel I have ever read . His logic is bull shit , Case of Two third majority is not first time in Indian Majority . INC enjoyed it for more than three decade .
Narendra,
>> we all know what the reaction to tarring Sajjan Kumar and Kamal Nath's communities would have been like.
You are not making sense.
>> do share with us exactly what Modi said about the Muslim community in Godhra.
I did. If you do not know what Modi said, what have you been arguing about?
>> the problem is that NOBODY writes about 1984.
>> an egalitarian Marxist would have condemned Patel's comment about Modi's caste.
So why did you bring in Egalitarian Marxist in the first place? Seems your comments are getting hollower and hollower. This will be my last comment in this thread.
Great post RSM.
The jehadi liar just can't help himself. Lying is as much a part of his DNA as hatred for the BJP.
Ghai,
>> abuse like you, SIR, when looses the arguments ?
I don't mind losing an argument, but I do sometimes use unparliamentary language against hate merchants and liars like yourself.
Anwar writes: " with so many comments, outlook will invite Akar Patel back"
I can imagine Time magazine article about Modi is a causing quite a few upset stomachs.
When he is not been found guilty by any court or commission, why all the hatred?
Impartial outside publications have a balanced view of this. Can't you summon up enough courage and try being impartial for a while?
Your continued rhetoric can only hurt you. JMHO.
(BTW my iPad tried to to auto-correct your name as I typed it. Guess what it came up with to replace your name: 'A war' :-) ironic, isn't it)
>>The immediate perpetrators are all dead.
So what?
>>Geelani is acquitted.
So there is no conspiracy?
>>Now Afzal Guru is the "key conspirator".
So the case is made after someone is found guilty according to mullahs?? Well by your logic, 31 have been convicted in the Godhra conspiracy hence now they are ‘key conspirators’!
>>And you, with your mullah logic, pick this case for comparison with the Godhra conspiracy!
Blah blah blah
>> Godhra was obviously a planned operation. >>It is not so obvious to many.
Not obvious to fifth columnists who have very little respect for due process.
>>That is not the argument. Your stupid argument was that Modi, by blaming Pakistani terrorists, was helping Godhra residents. Suggesting a collaboration between Pakistanis and Godhra residents was not going to help Godhra residents in any way.
Whenever there was a terrorist attack aided by Pakistan, did you see Hindu retaliation against Muslims?? It is because the perception of blame gets shifted to Pakistan even though such acts take place with local involvement. Can’t you get a simple point into your brainwashed thick head??
>>Banerjee never suggested spontaneous combustion, you lying scumbag! Banerjee had concluded that the fire was "accidental".
I guess years of madrassa indoctrination have affected your ability to spot sarcasm. Banerjee report says fire was caused by Kar Sevaks while cooking. So I will repeat the question – were burning rags thrown into the compartment or did Kar Sevaks land up immolating themselves?
>> charge sheets are not filed by the police on the basis of what Modi said. >>Whether they are or not, my reference was not to the chargesheets. Modi came up with the brilliant idea of Pakistani terrorists, but that angle is now completely forgotten.
Your straw man does not refute the fact that the court upheld the conspiracy charge. You brought in Modi first when Kautilia spoke of Godhra being a conspiracy in order to rebut his claim. You can say Modi blamed terrorists, Pakistanis, Martians, Romulans but it would still be an irrelevant stuck pig whine.
>>Let us see what happens to the rest of the conspiracy theory as it goes through the appeal process.
Yes the ringleader could also be found guilty.
>>Which madrasa did you go to, you nitwit!
There are places other than madrassas to get an education which you are obviously unaware of twerp!
>> the issue was not about shock in Muslim community. >>Why do you lie so much? I had said, "There was overwhelming shock at the burning of the karsevaks which was overshadowed by what followed," and your idiotic and irrelevant reply was, : "This is what the Goddess of NGO industry.... had to say after the Godhra carnage:
Ah, a good opportunity to expose the lying stinkpots who fester this forum.
Which part of your statement speaks of shock in the Muslim community? To prevent you from engaging in further subterfuge, the following is the thread and context:
Kautilia : “One of the things that I vividly remember was the reasons that media and these sickulars put forth justifying an indifference to their killing, “
Repeat the words ‘media’ and ‘sickulars’ a hundred times lest you forget them by the time you finish reading the sentence.
Anwar: “>> an indifference to their killing.
This is pure rubbish. There was overwhelming shock at the burning of the karsevaks which was overshadowed by what followed.”
Now, where do you see the word or context ‘Muslim’ in your own reply to Kautilia? “In my wild fantasies” would not be an acceptable answer!
Al puncturing your lies: “>> This is pure rubbish. There was overwhelming shock at the burning of the karsevaks which was overshadowed by what followed.
This is what Vir Sanghvi wrote
"Even if you dispute the version of some of the kar sewaks - that the attack was premeditated and that the mob was ready and waiting – there can be no denying that what happened was indefensible, unforgivable and impossible to explain away as a consequence of great provocation.”"
Even a blind man would see this discussion including your post is about secular reaction. This is what prompted me to quote the Goddess herself who symbolizes the concept of secularism among twisted minds. I have seen shifting of goal posts but taking the goal post and running with it all over the ground is a first!
>> not talking about the Muslim community but secular reaction. >>Were you responding to me or to Sanghvi? If you scroll back, I was clearly saying that the Muslim community
Yeah right!
>> NOTHING provocative about pilgrims returning from Ayodhya to Gujarat. >>If you are suggesting that I had called THAT a provocation, you have too be a pathological liar, because no one can be that stupid.
Liar, we are talking about Teesta. She made that statement when she was in the US and when she didn’t even know whether the Kar Sevaks were ‘going’ for ‘coming’! Was the tea vendor or her daughter communicating with her real time during the abduction?? Now read the following 10 times as punishment – THERE WAS NO PROVOCATION!
>>>What is the relevance of this comment?
I mean, we all know what the reaction to tarring Sajjan Kumar and Kamal Nath's communities would have been like, as to your earlier comment about tarring Muslim communities, do share with us exactly what Modi said about the Muslim community in Godhra.
It is stupid to say that if one writes about one atrocity, he/she should write about all atrocities.
Oh no, Anwaar, the problem is that NOBODY writes about 1984, and we are right in pointing out that this bias has a political reason behind it.
This is tuly stupid! Did you start this dialogue with me because I am supposed to be an Egalitarian Marxist?
No, an egalitarian Marxist would have condemned Patel's comment about Modi's caste.
You sound more angry than rational! Is this the way you respond when you lose an argument? Relax! Try to have some happy thoughts.
LOL! You were never appointed judge of this debate.
You sound more angry than rational! Is this the way you respond when you lose an argument? Relax! Try to have some happy thoughts." Faruki
Means Narendra too should abuse like you, SIR, when looses the arguments ?
>> Actually you guys did not have much to say about the Sikh massacre until you decided to use it to mitigate Modi's massacre.
Just because everyone doesn't whine like stuck pigs all the time like you do, doesn't mean they don't have anything to say.
>> The same goes for Cabinet ministers, like Kamal Nath.
What is the relevance of this comment?
>> every journalist knows that 1984 is a question that shoiuld be answered.
>> we never claimed to be Egalitarian Marxists, unlike the pseudo-seculars.
>> you Muslim left wingers differ only in degree with regard to your Community- centrism....you guys are the Shield for Islamism.
Sangeetha,
>> the snake oil did not sell and instead got all bad reviews.
If that happens in this forum, it is good!
Muslims should not worry about Modi, the other Kafirs like Aakar Patel will take him down.
>> "A lot of people are coming to the conclusion that you guys are the Shield for Islamism, while your extremist brethren are the sword." - Narendra
A near-perfect way of putting it. Superlike....
>>>A CM should not tar any community in his state.
The same goes for Cabinet ministers, like Kamal Nath.
If he never wrote on the Holocaust, that does not mean he is giving a free pass to Hitler.
The issue is communal violence in INDIA, get it, INDIA, I think every journalist knows that 1984 is a question that shoiuld be answered, but they never do.
Actually you guys did not have much to say about the Sikh massacre until you decided to use it to mitigate Modi's massacre.
Yeah, but we never claimed to be Egalitarian Marxists, unlike the pseudo-seculars.
A right-winger's excuse for massacring Muslims!
Actually you Muslim left wingers differ only in degree with regard to your Community- centrism, not in kind, everywhere, even in the UK, which has a fully functional police force, and no history of communal violence you are only concerned with defending Islam, not reforming it.
A lot of people are coming to the conclusion that you guys are the Shield for Islamism, while your extremist brethren are the sword.
Look, I have little time AND patience for Phallic worship, Cow urine and time wasting rituals, but the reason for Modi's popularity is his governance, not his religion.
As long as Kamal Nath and Sajjan kumar roam free, the Congress has no right to claim the moral high ground on communalism.
And even if they did prosecute the two, which they never will, we still believe that 2000 Indians killed in 10yrs is better than 6000 Indians starving to death EVERY DAY, you better hope that Gujarat's Agricultural growth is a myth.
Outlook gave Mr.AakarPatel option to sell his snake oil through its (virtual) "window shop". Pity that the snake oil did not sell and instead got all bad reviews
>> there is no difference between him and Modi.
A CM should not tar any community in his state.
>> provide the link where he is just as crtitical of Kamal Nath as he is of Modi.
>> there is a very real double standard on these two riots.
>> this country caught up in the same frustration and hopeless state as the Germans in 1933.
@ANWAAR
Modi tarred the entire Muslim Ghanchi community of Godhra when he testified before the SIT. He now gets his own back!
Then clearly, there is no difference between him and Modi, at least Modi places greater value for development.
He does not give a free pass to Congress for the 1984 riots.
Please provide the link where he is just as crtitical of Kamal Nath as he is of Modi.
Delhi 1984 deserves full attention, but why use it to silence Modi's critics for Gujarat 2002?
It shouldn't, but the fact of the matter is, there is a very real double standard on these two riots, the only explanation is that Gujarat is being brought up for political reasons.
Are you trying to justify the incineration of 6 million Jews and an equal number of East Europeans?
Not justifying the Holocaust, but do try to understand it, as center right winger, I find this country caught up in the same frustration and hopeless state as the Germans in 1933.
And if given a choice between the Bolsheviks and the Nazis, I WILL vote for the party which is the lesser of the two evils, and the Nazis can't even manage a Bronze medal when you compare them to Stalinists and Cultural Bolsheviks.
it has become customary for journalists to bash modi in print. who has demandded of mr. aakar patel to compare manmohan singh to modi in economic matters of the nation? what is the logic behind this comparison?
modi was brought to power by gujaratis and labelling them 'muslim haters' tantamounts to libel. mulayam has been voted to power in UP through massive muslim support. are the muslims of UP hindu bashers? i demand an explanation from the editor for such frivolous publishing.
>> Geelani was identified as a ‘key conspirator’.
The immediate perpetrators are all dead. Geelani is acquitted. Now Afzal Guru is the "key conspirator". And you, with your mullah logic, pick this case for comparison with the Godhra conspiracy!
>> Godhra was obviously a planned operation.
It is not so obvious to many.
>> Local Muslims doing it without Pakistani terrorist support is not cause enough to inflame passions?
That is not the argument. Your stupid argument was that Modi, by blaming Pakistani terrorists, was helping Godhra residents. Suggesting a collaboration between Pakistanis and Godhra residents was not going to help Godhra residents in any way.
>> All this while Banerjee report was waved at us as evidence.
Banerjee never suggested spontaneous combustion, you lying scumbag! Banerjee had concluded that the fire was "accidental".
>> charge sheets are not filed by the police on the basis of what Modi said.
Whether they are or not, my reference was not to the chargesheets. Modi came up with the brilliant idea of Pakistani terrorists, but that angle is now completely forgotten. Let us see what happens to the rest of the conspiracy theory as it goes through the appeal process. Which madrasa did you go to, you nitwit!
>> the issue was not about shock in Muslim community.
Why do you lie so much? I had said, "There was overwhelming shock at the burning of the karsevaks which was overshadowed by what followed," and your idiotic and irrelevant reply was, : "This is what the Goddess of NGO industry.... had to say after the Godhra carnage: .....". Do you have any brains at all?
>> not talking about the Muslim community but secular reaction.
Were you responding to me or to Sanghvi? If you scroll back, I was clearly saying that the Muslim community was in shock at the train fire, but it was overshadowed by what ensued. Are you truly a moron or just a liar?
>> NOTHING provocative about pilgrims returning from Ayodhya to Gujarat.
If you are suggesting that I had called THAT a provocation, you have too be a pathological liar, because no one can be that stupid.
Hegde,
>> Speaking of "provocations"... most muslims in India would see even idol worship as a "provocation"...
What an empty-headed argument! Now wait for some other moron to argue that it is not empty-headed!
>> well the issue is if you dont have ans then you can definitely call it as high school stuff
He failed high school. The stuff you wrote was too logical for him to understand. He was actually paying you a compliment.
Considering the number of comments that his article has generated, Mr Aakar Patel will surely be invited by Outlook to send in more articles for publication.
Indian,
My answer in #88 was quite simple and clear. Have a good day.
Thanks Arun for #148.
@Anwar " what you wrote is high school stuff"well the issue is if you dont have ans then you can definitely call it as high school stuff......Any how have fun in US
I guess Modi could be PM if only the Outlook Netizens voted. His opponent, assuming anyone even dares, will likely get 2 votes - Anwaar and your truly from amongst the Outlook Netizens :-)
Good news in the real world the non-internet enabled unwashed masses also votes and they vote from all over, well beyond the borders of Gujarat.
More good news that your truly doesn't have to be a tourist in Gujarat - AB fortunately shows it to us on TV. Even more good news your truly gets all the Gujarati delicacies in Bangalore - the dholka, khakra, fafra, thepla and what not (as the movie says names sounding like missiles). All is well with the world - they maintain their aasmatha and your truly gets to keep his aasmatha.
Speaking of "provocations"... most muslims in India would see even idol worship as a "provocation"...they see our temples as a "provocation".... they see Bharat Mata as a "provocation"... they see Shree Ram as a "provocation".... in fact the very fact that there are people in this country who practise an idol worshipping polytheistic kufr faith called hinduism, is a grave "provocation"....
>>Geelani was not identified as "the ringleader".
Geelani was identified as a ‘key conspirator’. In any case, only mullah logic would suggest that for a conspiracy theory to be upheld, the key conspirator has to be found guilty.
>>It was obviously a planned operation.
Even Godhra was obviously a planned operation except for the Jihadis in denial.
>>That is B.S. Modi was trying to show collaboration between Godhra Muslims and Pakistani terrorists.
Really? Local Muslims doing it without Pakistani terrorist support is not cause enough to inflame passions?? Has your brain slipped down from your head? And why do you get all riled up when Pakistani’s are blamed??
>>Nobody ever suggested spontaneous combustion. There seems to be no limit to your lying.
What a lying scumbag! All this while Banerjee report was waved at us as evidence.
>>It was watered down from Modi's original invention. Don't you understand anything at all?
Pay attention twit, charge sheets are not filed by the police on the basis of what Modi said but on basis of investigation and those charges were never watered down! We are talking about the legal process which upheld the conspiracy theory and that process includes police investigations, arguments in court and the verdict and not what Modi says. Geddit??
>>Only a person with a very low I.Q. or a very high prejudice level would see in her comment a denial of overwhelming shock that prevailed in the Muslim community at the burning of the karsevaks.
Listen you madrassa bred jihadi imbecile, the issue was not about shock in Muslim community. There is a world beyond the Muslim community where Hindu pilgrims get murdered by jehadi mullahs. And it was about secular reaction to it!
>>Saying that the karsevaks were provocative is not the same as saying the community was unaffected by the tragedy.
Stop shifting goalposts – it was not about your community. Sanghvi’s article posted by Al was not talking about the Muslim community but secular reaction. Secondly there is NOTHING provocative about pilgrims returning from Ayodhya to Gujarat. Stating it as a provocation is a justification for murders.
Anwaar mian is a person who thinks throwing burning cloth rolls inside a train compartment is harmless. How on the earth can one argue with him?
"Moronic comments often ensue because morons do not follow a thread from the beiginning."
Moronic comments often ensue because morons do not follow lagic.
They also often ensue because morons have not studied in a regular secular schooling system but instead have been thru a rabid jihadi, madarsa school system.
So in their eagerness to pontificate, the morons don't realise that that their statements can backfire on them. And when they do, morons froth at the mouth and generally have a fit of name-calling!!
I am following the thread right from the beginning, miyan! you have been padelling BS for a long time and when you dont have an argument, you start name calling.
Coming to the same question again: Is it not true that Hindus in Gujarat were enraged, it is because they were provoked? Has anybody on this forum justified killing anyone?
Moronic comments often ensue because morons do not follow a thread from the beiginning.
"That is a malicious distortion. If Muslims at Godhra station were enraged, it is because they were provoked. Who said it was a justification to kill anyone?"
This coming from a guy who has been engaged in malicious distortion himself!! Let me put it this way:
If Hindus in Gujarat were enraged, it is because they were provoked. Who said it was a justification to kill anyone?
>> Who said it was a justification to kill anyone?
Sickulars.
Read Sanghvi's article again.
“It (Gujarat riots) was a well-organized and pre-planned Bajrangi operation.”
Miyan has been paddling this BS for quite some time.
When do you think was it planned? Before the train burning? Was train burning part of the plan? Did Bajrangis torch the train? If yes, your “provoking” of muslims (by kar sevaks) doesn’t hold.
So did the riots were planned AFTER the train burning? In a day?? Did bajrangis know the train is going to be torched so they were prepared for retaliation?
None of it is logical, but then they don’t teach you logic at madarsas!!
>> If Anwaar justifies the brutal murder of 56 hindus, mostly women and children....
That is a malicious distortion. If Muslims at Godhra station were enraged, it is because they were provoked. Who said it was a justification to kill anyone?
>> Why doesnt Muslim community come forward & hand over all the shrines desacrated by them to other religious communities.
Hush. These things are not to be said to seculars.
Don't you know that no temples were ever desecrated? All such talk is Sanghi propaganda. ASI is infested with Sanghis for saying that there stood a temple at the site of Babri mosque. All evidence to support this claim has been manufactured. The Banaras temple was destroyed since its sanctity was destroyed by a priest there, etc.
All seculars are taught these things in their Madrassa. They can only say such things, apart from labeling others as Sanghis, that is.
Anyway claiming that the hindu women and children were killed because they provoked the good, decent, innocent muslims is a slow improvement towards the goal of acceptance of the truth. Because until recently most people like Anwar used to claim they died because of either a spontaneous combustion theory (SCT) or because they were so evil minded that they committed suicide and burnt themselves and their children alive just to give a bad name to the pure, inncoent, noble minded muslims of India, and indeed the muslim mob, if it was there, was only trying to save these evil RSS women and children from killing themselves.
Anwaar : "An exaggeration! You also make no mention of the provocation offered by the karsevaks."
If Anwaar justifies the brutal murder of 56 hindus, mostly women and children, and even babies, with cries of "Allahu Akbar", by a mob of a thousand muslims emerging from a mosque, on the grounds that they, the poor, innocent souls, were "provoked" by the ghastly Kar Sevaks....... what is wrong in us mentionting the provocation of this particular act by Indian muslims in what followed later ?
Anwar, You people burn alive our women and children, and do you seriously expect us to do nothing about it ? Its okay and kosher for you people to get "provoked" and not for us ?
No, I won't call you names, but what you wrote is high school stuff. Have a good day.
@Anwar: My view is very simple. Justice needs to be provided to Hindus as well. Why doesnt Muslim community come forward & hand over all the shrines desacrated by them to other religious communities.Why still Muslim majority persecutes minorities every where....So if you consider yourselfbe true crusader ..get justice for all human beings who are persecuted by Islamist & this persecution is done by then when there is no instigation from minorities....Gujrat is one of exception but even there riots initiation was intiated by Minority & nearly equal no of people from majority community died ..but persection of minorities by muslim is daily affair & that too w/o any [provocation from minority ...i never saw you fighting for Hindus/Muslims /Christians when they are being subjected to most inhuman treatment by the followers of your faith........Now I am sure since you can noot defend any thing on above mentioned points ...as usual you will start calling me by names
I don't know what your point is. As far as I am concerned, the effort to bring the guilty to justice for the Gujarat atrocities should continue, as it should continue for all other atrocities. The Jews still continue to pursue Nazi war criminals over 65 years after the Holocaust. One of the Nazis died only last week in prison. You may have different views about it, but my view is quite clear.
@Anwar then why do u blame RSS VHP..As per your thought process they are seeking justice for attrocities which the followers of your religion committed..& you brazenly defend it ...as per your logic VHP/Bajrangis are asking to vacate landwhich was forcibly occupied in Mathura/Kashi & other places ...whats your take on that also Why dont you first seek justice for victims who are constantly under sufferings bcoz of followers of your religion...You can condemn NM/US policies simple coz majotity community in India /US is civilized...if you have balls dare to live in islamic country & critize any islamic scholar/practice & you will know what treatment will be given to you...its really funny that coutries like Iran /Taliban history begins only after the advent of islam...for peoplelike you mutilation of 1000s of non muslim on daily basis doesnt hold any importnace but a riot which was more of reaction is a big issue...& unfortunately my country also have history of producing traitors right from Jaichands to Teestas ,Arundhatis..etal...
>> May be, the mullahdom has the "first right" to feel provoked; but, they should not whine when others exercise their 'right' to feel provoked.
Why?
They have the first right to whine too.
Pradeep,
The irony is in your mind. My comment is clear and logical.
Irreverent,
>>>> Riots have abated because the Bajrangis have realized that they will not go scot free after their rampages. The Modis too have realized that there is a heavy price to pay. >> Does that mean that the Mullahdom is free to go about with their terrorism and rioting acts?
Apart from your comprehension problems, bigotry and hatred ooze from every sentence that you write. You are truly a sick man.
Sandilya,
>> why sub clauses to say some one deserves more privileges as MMS said?
MMS said that in the wake of the Sachar report which had shown that the condition of Muslims had fallen below that of the Dalits. I thought what he said was timely and noble but I am not surprised at all the flak he got from the saffronites. I am sure though that you are no less secular than your brother.
>> "You also make no mention of the provocation offered by the karsevaks." - Anwaar
Oh yes!! Thousands of Mullahs descended on the station early morning with inflammable materials, all WAITING TO BE PROVOKED. May be, the mullahdom has the "first right" to feel provoked; but, they should not whine when others exercise their 'right' to feel provoked.
With logic like this, one must not be surprised at the people across the world, jumping into that trench called 'Islamophobia'!!
Anwar says
" An exaggeration! You also make no mention of the provocation offered by the karsevaks. "
I know you will refuse to see the the irony in these 2 lines that highlights your ( and by extension most secularist's ) blindspot
1. "An exaggeration" .Death of 700-1000 muslims in a riot where 250+ rioters were shot dead by police within weeks is a "genocide" and "pogrom" , in a country where it was "normal" to have riots with atleast 5 times bigger death toll with not a single rioter punished ever before . whereas a statement which probably blows up the number of stown throwers in signal falia is the "exaggeration" that needs to be fought over .
2. "You also make no mention of the provocation offered by the karsevaks."
why do you even bring this up ? do you make mention of the provocation offered by cold blooded killing of hindu pigrims women and children by burning them alive when you refer to the Gujarat riots .
>> All of what I posted there is the info from various news articles and SIT report of Justice Nanavati.
That precisely is the problem!
>> lies you speak every third sentence.
You make these wild charges, but when asked for proof, you have nothing. You should be ashamed of yourself.
>> Geelani was found not guilty in the Parliament attack case. But....., no one concluded that the parliament attack case was not a conspiracy!
Geelani was not identified as "the ringleader". It was obviously a planned operation. Did you go to a madrasa? Did you do your apprenticeship in a sharia court?
>> Modi was not a court judge! .... he was trying to deflect the blame to outsiders and by implication absolve local involvement.
That is B.S. Modi was trying to show collaboration between Godhra Muslims and Pakistani terrorists. If you think that absolves local involvement, you did not go to a good madrasa.
>> Make up your mind. Wasn’t it spontaneous combustion?
Nobody ever suggested spontaneous combustion. There seems to be no limit to your lying.
>> It was never watered down.
It was watered down from Modi's original invention. Don't you understand anything at all?
>> the Goddess of NGO industry had to say after the Godhra carnage:
Only a person with a very low I.Q. or a very high prejudice level would see in her comment a denial of overwhelming shock that prevailed in the Muslim community at the burning of the karsevaks. Saying that the karsevaks were provocative is not the same as saying the community was unaffected by the tragedy. One may as well make a case that persons of your ilk were not shocked by the carnage that followed.
This stupid author is comparing apple to orange. He is comparing BJP majority government leader, Mr. Modi's performance with coalition (dharma) UPA government leader's performance. He should have just stayed in Gujarat itself and compared performation of Congress majority governments' (1960-1990) performance with Mr. Modi's performance. I remember I stayed on a waiting list for 24 months just to buy a scooter in 1968-69.
Kautilya,
>> thousands stopping, stoning and torching a train.
An exaggeration! You also make no mention of the provocation offered by the karsevaks.
>> why millions of people rioted
It was a well organized and pre-planned Bajrangi operation.
>> cure was administered not locally on a wound, but at a systemic level.
By calling an inhuman massacre a "cure" you are showing how much you have fallen because of Modi's influence.
>> "Riots have abated because the Bajrangis have realized that they will not go scot free after their rampages. " - Anwaar
Does that mean that the Mullahdom is free to go about with their terrorism and rioting acts? Ask your fellow-bigots to try Godhra again and see how far the public patience can be tested. The world is slowly agreeing to the view that no amount of reasoning works with the bigots. They have to be paid back in their own coins; and, with interest!! USA, Israel and Gujarat are good examples.
Anwaar,
You may wonder if I say I am a secular and strongly believe in representative democracy. But I do not subscribe to the Congress' brand of secularism which actually means what many readers in this forum accuse the congress of- minority vote bank politics and exploitation of age old fault lines for the sake of power.
When our constitution guarantees equal rights to all why sub clauses to say some one deserves more privileges as MMS said? I do not agree with such kind of blatant appeasement.
At the same time I do not say minorities are to be trounced. No, not at all. They are equals just like any from the majority. They shall have the same rights, privileges and opportunities as any one from the majority but nothing more and nothing less. Thats my view, and arguments are for.
In fact why harp on any identity at all when everyone in this country is a minority some way or the other. I guess I said this before.Take my example. I am a minority in TN state but never I felt discriminated by Tamils who are a nice people to get along . I cannot denounce entire Tamil population based on few unpleasant incidents I had faced. It can happen to anyone anywhere including ones own home state.
And as some one has said in this forum, may be, the majority should deal the minorities with dignity and magnaniminity to make them not become acutely aware of their identity. That I agree. But the minorities also should put efforts to integrate and avoid direct confrontation on mundane issues. In my district we as kids went to participate in Urs and I hear these days many muslim kids participate in Diwali celebrations. Thats what is required -mutual engagement for good relations as fellow Indians.
Sangeetha, all your efforts would have some purpose if you are arguing with a rational person.
Thanks for the link WhatsInAName !
Dear Anwaar, Nothing in that para of mine is cooked up. All of what I posted there is the info from various news articles and SIT report of Justice Nanavati. Reg the conspiracy angle, we have had argued about it earlier. I gave an IE link on why the conspiracy was upheld by the judge (trial court), a rediff link on Justice Shah's question to defense lawyer Mr.Sinha. I'd also posted info reg each para of SIT report and cross references between them and the testimonies of the passengers, ASMs, Railway security, the fire brigade. Unfortunately moderator had deleted the post as it was a digression and I donot have enough time, though I've the patience, to post the same again. Thank you
Either you are one of the worst liars and slanderers or you suffer from senile dementia. If the latter, my sympathies. ' Fruki
Every Ranga Siyar (dyed Secular Fox ) greets in this manner .When in doubt read Osama ji ji Bjagat Digi .
As if the burning rags were thrown into the compartment in the middle of a heated scuffle with the precise intent of burning 58 Karsevaks! " Frauki
Those were actually the Agarbaties for Poojas and not for burning the Karsevaks .Hold fast to Banerjee Report for which Railways paid through the nose and from our pockets . And what about the two thousand mob of Muslims pelting stones on th Kar Sevak's bogie.??
Sir malicious lies you speak every third sentence .
Mr Patel, you say "Manmohan Singh is a fine leader" (my, my, by what yardstick?). To use your catchy last line, is Manmohan governing India well? Ha ha ha...
Anwaar mian,
[[As if the burning rags were thrown into the compartment in the middle of a heated scuffle with the precise intent of burning 58 Karsevaks!]]
No, the burning rags were thrown into the compartment in the middle of a heated scuffle with the precise intent of providing warmth to the 58 Karsevaks.
Actually, Bekaar Patel, Anwar Patel, Teesta, Roy, and all others that form the Jihadi-Sickular nexus, are smarting under the fact that Modi is on the cover of Time magazine!!
They could shut up the indians here by labelling them right-wing fanatics but cant do so to Time magazine. Teesta was seen brandishing copies of Frontline and Outlook to explain how Time is wrong and how people should go by whats written in Outlook and Frontline on Modi. She was frothing at the mouth as always, just as our resident jihadi is.
These are really bad times for Teesta and Anwaar. on one hand, Modi is proving to be teflon coated for the whole riot indusrty throwing mud at him, and on the other, their clown prince is getting the worst drubbing. and now Time is praising Modi?? Too bad!!
>> it is hard to imagine someone like Vir Singhvi alluding to those thoughts.
Vir was relatively more honest amongst sicko writers.
Interestingly, at the end of the article he says
I wrote this column for the Hindustan Times in 2002 right after the train was burnt and was widely criticised for it
The sickos probably felt betrayed. I mean, one of their own, saying
"Have we become such prisoners of our own rhetoric that even a horrific massacre becomes nothing more than occasion for Sangh parivar-bashing?"
This is also the source of discomfort for jehadis like Anwaar. They lie shamelessly that there was widespread condemnation of Godhra, only for articles such as Vir's to puncture their lies, and expose them for the lying dirtbags that they are. No wonder likes of them criticized Vir.
>>This is pure rubbish. There was overwhelming shock at the burning of the karsevaks which was overshadowed by what followed.
This is what the Goddess of NGO industry (who is still worshipped by pea brains on this forum) had to say after the Godhra carnage:
“While I condemn today's gruesome attack, you cannot pick up an incident in isolation. Let us not forget the provocation. These people were not going for a benign assembly. They were indulging in blatant and unlawful mobilization to build a temple and deliberately provoke the Muslims in India.”
First she claims that they were ‘going’. Second, her statement blames pilgrims for ‘provoking’ which is worse than even Rajiv Gandhi’s infamous “big tree” justification. And we are supposed to believe there was overwhelming shock amongst secularists!
The ill-advised, ill-conceived attempt to make Godhra a jihadi laboratory went horribly wrong and the secu gang is still smarting from that. Going by Aakar Patel's article, the gang is going berserk.
>>It will be further watered down when it goes through the appeal process.
It was never watered down and the court upheld the conspiracy angle. Don't peddle your jihadi fantasies as fact.
>>As if the burning rags were thrown into the compartment in the middle of a heated scuffle with the precise intent of burning 58 Karsevaks!
Make up your mind. Wasn’t it spontaneous combustion? The cavalier attitude of seculars towards murder of 58 Hindu pilgrims mostly women and children sickens sane minds even today.
>>Modi's theory of conspiracy was even more bizarre. He wanted it called a Pakistani terrorist act!
Modi was not a court judge! Any person with half a brain would conclude that he was trying to deflect the blame to outsiders and by implication absolve local involvement. This itself punctures the secular claim that Modi inflamed the passions.
>>A pre-planned conspiracy in which the two "ring-leaders" were found to be innocent!
People who have never seen beyond Sharia Courts should know that Courts do not pronounce anyone innocent. Secondly your perverse logic has been refuted in the past but shamelessly you repeat in other threads. I will repeat it for your benefit - SAR Geelani was found not guilty in the Parliament attack case. But other than jihadis, antinationalist and traitors, no one concluded that the parliament attack case was not a conspiracy!
>> "Modi's theory of conspiracy was even more bizarre. He wanted it called a Pakistani terrorist act! ! " - Anwaar
It was no more bizzare than sick conspiracy theory of accidental-fire-caused-by-1-litre-kerosin that you peddled here on same forum for years until Bannerjee report was thrashed.
@ WHATS INANAME - thanks for the link - it is hard to imagine someone like Vir Singhvi alluding to those thoughts.
For me, it was the indifference to killing of the piligrims and the brazenness of the attack itself - thousands stopping, stoning and torching a train was what set the 2002 riots apart from other riots we have seen - the real reason why millions of people rioted instead of fringe elements or rabble rousers or anti social elements.
@ Irreverent - He should have exposed the bigots of Godhra and Signal Falia immediately
Signal Falia is just a microcosm of the infection/wound that is wrong with our system. If Signal Falia was cured, there would have been Juhapura some other time, or another neigborhood. Guj society evolved after the riots and the transformation was complete and away from loss of life just because the cure was administered not locally on a wound, but at a systemic level - on the pysche of the rioter and those who took things for granted.
>> can one say that because Modi got a clean chit from the SIT, the riots did not even happen?
One can say that the chit from the SIT is not worth shit.
>> Modi's attempts to deflect the anger was both thankless and futile.
He probably wanted nothing less than a war! No surprise that he is the hero of someone who wanted genocide!
>> "Modi's theory of conspiracy was even more bizarre. He wanted it called a Pakistani terrorist act! " - Anwaar
Yes. He was an idiot. He should have exposed the bigots of Godhra and Signal Falia immediately, instead of trying to control the situation by blaming an external entity. Those scoundrels needed a payback in their own coins. Modi's attempts to deflect the anger was both thankless and futile.
As for the sickular pied pipers, I have no doubts that they would rise up to defend even Pakistan or ISI if it helped them promote their bigot-laden agenda.
>> If I borrow this sickular logic, can one say that because Modi got a clean chit from the SIT, the riots did not even happen?
Don't go there. Only dim witted, anti national scoundrels are allowed to use sickular logic.
>> This is pure rubbish. There was overwhelming shock at the burning of the karsevaks which was overshadowed by what followed.
"Even if you dispute the version of some of the kar sewaks - that the attack was premeditated and that the mob was ready and waiting – there can be no denying that what happened was indefensible, unforgivable and impossible to explain away as a consequence of great provocation.
And yet, this is precisely how the secular establishment has reacted."
>> Your imagination!
Once again, from the same article
"And yet, the sub-text to all secular commentary is the same: the kar sewaks had it coming to them."
Almost exactly Kautilya's words
And then he goes on to write
"Why then are these poor kar sewaks an exception? Why have we de-humanised them to the extent that we don’t even see the incident as the human tragedy that it undoubtedly was and treat it as just another consequence of the VHP’s fundamentalist policies?
The answer, I suspect, is that we are programmed to see Hindu-Muslim relations in simplistic terms: Hindus provoke, Muslims suffer."
virsanghvi.com/CounterPoint-ArticleDetail.aspx
>> "A pre-planned conspiracy in which the two "ring-leaders" were found to be innocent! " - Anwaar
If I borrow this sickular logic, can one say that because Modi got a clean chit from the SIT, the riots did not even happen?
>> Post-2002, riots across the country, and particularly in Gujarat, have abated.
Riots have abated because the Bajrangis have realized that they will not go scot free after their rampages. The Modis too have realized that there is a heavy price to pay.
>> I can recount a few more.....
So you admit that your comment, " the riots would not have happened if the sickulars had not started celebrating the carnage," was a malicious lie!
>> the buring of 58 people on Sabarmati express a pre-planned conspiracy.
A pre-planned conspiracy in which the two "ring-leaders" were found to be innocent! Modi's theory of conspiracy was even more bizarre. He wanted it called a Pakistani terrorist act! When no evidence was found to support it, the conspiracy theory was watered down. It will be further watered down when it goes through the appeal process.
>> an indifference to their killing.
This is pure rubbish. There was overwhelming shock at the burning of the karsevaks which was overshadowed by what followed.
>> tiff with tea vendors and women on the Godhra platform which was put up as a reason why the 58 people (seems all of them were molestors and rabble rousers).
As if the burning rags were thrown into the compartment in the middle of a heated scuffle with the precise intent of burning 58 Karsevaks!
>> 58 people... who were burned had it coming and deserved no sympathy.
Your imagination!
>> "This is false and malicious." - Anwaar
Not half as false and malicious as:
1. Self-immolation Theory
2. Accident-by-1-litre-fuel Theory
3. Modi-himself-got-it-burnt Theory
4. They-abducted-a-tea-vendor's-daughter Theory
5. Newton's Law Translation by Sickulars
6. Sayeeda Story
7. Woman's-womb-ripped-out fables
I can recount a few more, but that is unlikely to help you find a cure to your hatefulness.
>> "The only reason why Guj has been riot free in the last decade is because the perpetual rioter now has a fear of reprisal, which did not exist before 2002 riots. " - Kautilya
Very true.
Post-2002, riots across the country, and particularly in Gujarat, have abated. Partly because media coverage ensures prompt administrative action on any communal inflamation. But, mostly because reprisal rioting is a feared consequence now.
@ Sangeetha and Irreverent (posts 83 and 84)
Inspite of the fact that the courts called the buring of 58 people on Sabarmati express a pre-planned conspiracy, it is sickening that these sickulars continue to distort the truth by playing an accident angle etc.
One of the things that I vividly remember was the reasons that media and these sickulars put forth justifying an indifference to their killing, which was the primary trigger to the violence. To say that they were Karsevaks and were somehow millitant hindus who were visiting Ayodhya beared heavily in reporting (irrespective of the fact that there were women and children). The second angle was the purpoted tiff with tea vendors and women on the Godhra platform which was put up as a reason why the 58 people (seems all of them were molestors and rabble rousers) who were burned had it coming and deserved no sympathy for being roasted alive by a mob.
If the same argument is turned on its head and said that the people who lost their lives in the post Godhra violence had it coming, then all hell breaks loose in the name of secularism and minorityism. The only reason why Guj has been riot free in the last decade is because the perpetual rioter now has a fear of reprisal, which did not exist before 2002 riots.
>> the riots would not have happened if the sickulars had not started celebrating the carnage.
This is false and malicious.
>> To remind you on what happened on that fateful day of 27-Feb-2002....
A very biased, incomplete and distorted version of what happened.
>> dont get blinded by hate.
Seeking justice is not just hate. If you come and kill my brother, should I say, "I won't seek justice because of what Mohammed Ghori had done"?
You usually start out as a reasonable and mature participant in discussions, but once you lose an argument, your contribution falls to the level of: "Rational arguments are proving worthless with dim witted seculars." It is such a pity!
>> Condmned Muslim communalism ? Hey- - hey hey.
Either you are one of the worst liars and slanderers or you suffer from senile dementia. If the latter, my sympathies.
@ Zafar "do you mean that Gujarat is trying to become like Pakistan? How about Dot Busters in NJ or the Dravidian Parties (both of them) in Tamil Nadu? "
why do you refer to Dravidian Parties in Tamil Nadu ? what have they done ?
To add to Sangeetha's points (# 83, last para), the riots would not have happened if the sickulars had not started celebrating the carnage. There was wide-spread disgust, but largely solemn and peaceful till the 28th Feb afternoon. The violence started erupting after we had these sickular bigots clapping in unison, saying "they had it coming".
The Mullahdom and their sickular apologists must realize nobody's patience is unlimited. When they inflict such carnage next time, the least that they must do is to not hail it. Else, they will be hit back with Gujarats and Kandhamals. Debganga is one example where they seemed to have learnt from their mistake. Blabbering bigots!!
To negotiate, one must accept the limitation of one’s position. Whether that position is right, or even moral, is irrelevant
What Mr. Bekar Patel (I like that...thanks Mr.Ghai :D ) tells us is - while negotiating we have to leave all ethics and morals to winds and be shameless and spineless. He is right in saying that MMS fits the bill. Nice ...
Modi has done nothing to suggest that he can do this
Yes. Could be because hes a "vertebrate"
Why inflict this on those visiting the portal?
Why sing cry-baby kolaveri about this when we have portals singing encomiums of our "visionary" leaders like Sonia madam and and the accompanying entourage ?
The blame for all the incompetent policing and sloppy investigation during and after the 2002 riots can be laid directly at Modi’s feet
This reminds of a cow-dung story my brother told me. There once was a dull student whose answer to any question in the Qpaper somehow brings in cow into the narration and ends with cow-dung cakes and their usefulness. I think your brilliant "negotiator" aka MMS would've frozen in such a situation
whose population shares his party’s dislike of Muslims and love of big business
Does this apply to minorities as well or is it only reserved for majority bashing? To remind you on what happened on that fateful day of 27-Feb-2002 - a mob of ~1500 (according to the eye witnesses) attacked the Sabarmati express and set fire to S6,S7 by throwing inflammable liquid into them along with cloth-rolls which were set to fire. Secondly, the fire brigade was stopped from reaching the station by another mob which if reached on time could've saved some of those unfortunate souls. No, the rampaging didnot stop at that. At 10:30-11:00 another mob swelled in no.s again tried to attack it but were somehow thwarted. Can you say something about this?
I have condemned both Hindu and Muslim communalism.''
Condmned Muslim communalism ??? Hey- - hey hey--- LOL !
' But it is true that in this forum I am often locked in arguments with Hindu communalists.'
Pot calling all others black ???
well outlook & Vinod mehta have stooped to a new low.....Mr Patel rather than presenting facts just wrote a pieceof crap & his allegations have no substance in it...
@anwar dont get blinded by hate. If you hate NMso much just beacuse of riots clained 800 muslim life ...then you hate towards follower of your religion shouldbe much more....right from distruction temples Somnath Kashi Mathura & mass murder of innocent hindus which continued unabated till last Mughal Emperor...In india..elsewhere followers of your faith are involved in distruction of their own past..Iran,Afghanistan,Pakistan.now egypt sudan as well....every where minorities are prosecuted & places of worshipproyeded distroyed Followers of other religion forcibally converted to your religion & still you claim your religion promotes peaceful co-existence..really dont understand how majority followers indulge into violence..
Worthless arguments are often called "rational" by dim-witted saffronites.
ANWAAR
Thats what we keep debating days and weeks withoutend on deciding whose arguments are worthless. For me its yours.
Emperor,
Yes,I too read that book and I have same views as you. I agree with you.Its old style turgid prose that can put you off. But one does come across some compelling arguments difficult to disagree with.
Agreed, mere possession of the book doesn't make a person fascist. One of our courts of Law has in fact acquitted Naxalites on this gorund saying mere possession of extremist Marxist literature does't make a person extremist unless there is clear evidence of extremism . Fair enough. Regarding the superiority of Europeans, I feel it is cyclical. Every civilisation has had its day. The Egyptians, the Chinese have had theirs. At one time we the Indians had such sophistication of thought and philosophy thats difficult for the ordinary to appreciate. Europeans were barbarians till as recently as two or three centuries and they renewed that image in Nazi Germany. But it is their turn now and therefore appear they are better placed than us. Let us accept it . Its another matter how they have attained it. We did not choose to eliminate all the weakilngs,exterminate the tribals with different culture, kill gypsies and carryout pogroms as the Europeans did. We at present are an amorphous characterless mass of humans floundering to know our identity and role in this challenging world. We are in a process of evolution and after all evolution is the function of time and mass deaths. So, only time will tell.
Sanjay,
I have condemned both Hindu and Muslim communalism. Not once, but many times. But it is true that in this forum I am often locked in arguments with Hindu communalists.
>>A Minister of State is a junior Minister in the Council of Ministers who may assist a cabinet minister or have independent charge of a ministry.
Is this the basis of the CBI arresting Amit Shah but not being able to grow the balls to touch Modi?
The new Editor of Outlook KP is sleeping. How in the world can he publish such a sick article with casteist remarks?
I am trying to search for any posts from Anwaar of Dallas to see where he condemns Muslim communalism. I don't see any Muslims condemning communalism emanating from the Muslim community. They're all such a bunch of saints, you see.
By the way, since Aakar Patel, the Congress bootlicker takes such pleasure in repeating old Congress jokes about Modi....allow me to use a Mahabharatha reference in the case of the prime minister Manmohan Singh he admires so much. Have you heard of Shikhandi ? Shikhandi was a king of eunuchs who was used as a ploy to kill the great noble warrior Bheeshma. Bheeshma was such a good fighter that nobody could take him on. So a strategy of using Shikhandi the eunuch king to confront him was used. Bheeshma would never fight a eunuch, and so turned away. Using Shikhandi as a cover, Krishna directed Arjuna to finish off Bheeshma, which he promptly did and killed the old noble Khsatriya.
Manmohan Singh is the eunuch Shikhandi of India today, and using Manmohan-Shikhandi as a cover, the Maino-Gandhi dynasty and the huge industry sustained by it, is systematically killing the old and great warrior Bheeshma, or the Indian nation.
"But since his government is dependent on allies, he persists, preferring tactical retreat to martyrdom."
A retreat becomes "tactical" only if serves a larger strategy. Otherwise it is called crawling.
What larger strategy is Manmohan Singh pursuing? He is presiding over larger loot.
As for martyrdom, what I think he means is frequent elections. National elections cost around 2000 crores. It is chump change compared to the massive loot that has happened right under Manmohan watch. There is really no virtue in Manmohan's "tactical retreats".
>> Ministers of state are loosely called "ministers"
Out of curiosity; Is a minister of state, when there is no cabinet minister same as MOS with independent charge, or is the latter a designation specifically assigned?
If there is no cabinet minister, is the CM obligated to fill that role, or is the MOS responsible, and enjoys the needed authority?
>> The sickulars first decided that they must target Modi and his government.
What an idiot! Hate has destroyed your mind.
>> Go to google or wiki to figure the answer.
Are you a total retard? Ministers of state are loosely called "ministers", but that does not change facts.
>> "Is that your excuse for having lied about Amit Shah being a Minister?"
What an idiot!! Go to google or wiki to figure the answer instead of puking here. Tell them that I sent you.
And, while you are at it, do lambast the CBI for botching the cases of your icons Ishrat and Sohrabuddin, by hauling up a "Minister of State" instead of holding the Cabinet Minister's neck!!
>> Rational arguments are proving worthless with dim witted seculars.
>> "However unjustly a state government treats you, grin and bear it!"
That is precisely the hate and prejudice that you talk about!! The sickulars first decided that they must target Modi and his government. Then, they started filing FIRs and inventing stories so that they could get Modoi's neck.
Ask that lady Zakia why the name of the accused were changed when she filed for a "revised" FIR? Ask your icon, Teesta and her co-litigants, about the proof of call records and that lady whose womb was rippd out? The sickulars of India must be the last dinosaurs on this planet to preach on hate and prejudice.
>>>> "What is the difference between Minister of State for Home and Home Minister?" >> Not much at state government level.....
Is that your excuse for having lied about Amit Shah being a Minister?
>>>> "That is a poor answer to give to those who speak up against an injustice." >> Find me ONE non-Muslim country where the Mullah apologists are not crying hoarse over some percieved or imagined injustice meted out to them! Only the most despicable poster would use such prejudiced and hateful language in an attempt to silence Muslims and secular Indians in their protests against the Gujarat massacre. The message to Muslims is, "However unjustly a state government treats you, grin and bear it!"
>> "What is the difference between Minister of State for Home and Home Minister?" - Ganesan
Talking in context of India.....
Not much at state government level, except the entitlements and number of white ambassadors that trail the minister's ass!!
At the central govt level, the MoS has the freedom to screw only specific department(s) of the ministry while the cabinet minister can screw the entire ministry. And yes, the cabinet minister has the command and control on other agencies for his misuse/ abuse/ peruse.
Ganesan,
>> What is the difference between Minister of State for Home and Home Minister? I thought they were the same.
A Minister of State is a junior Minister in the Council of Ministers who may assist a cabinet minister or have independent charge of a ministry.
>> For the first time, I have seen some one call Manmohan Singh a leader-that too a fine one.
You see what you want to see, and you don't see what you don't want to see. (Now someone will bring in Modi in this!)
What is the difference between Minister of State for Home and Home Minister? I thought they were the same.
" Manmohan Singh is a fine leader, and a good man, because he operates modestly within the confines of his limitations"
For the first time, I have seen some one call Manmohan Singh a leader-that too a fine one. There are some people who can be fooled all the time and the writer falls in that category.
"Modi has done nothing to suggest that he can do this"
Thank goodness!! And I hope he never does that.
>> Yet all Aakar patel will see is a snake oil salesman in Modi
What else do you expect from a snake?
The largest broadband computer network in india: gujarat government
Yet all Aakar patel will see is a snake oil salesman in Modi.
sandilya,
Mein Kampf is a book that evokes most interest in many people as it is written by the most infamous person of history. I too own a copy and for its thickness it displays itself well in my book collection in my living room. Most of the visitors to my place also directly pick that book up, disregarding the more famous ones in the shelf.
But the interest dosent really go beyond that as its translated in heavy English, is not contemporary and after the first hundred pages or so he keeps on explaining why the white european race is supreme. Obviously we dont agree with that and cant go any further.
But yes everyone definitely has a copy of that book. The question is - How many of those who buy the book read it and how many who read do really follow it? Owning a copy surely dosent make anyone fascist and the trend of its sales in India dosent really indicate the changing attitude of Indians.
>> "That is a poor answer to give to those who speak up against an injustice."
Find me ONE non-Muslim country where the Mullah apologists are not crying hoarse over some percieved or imagined injustice meted out to them!! The point is that these cribbing-machines have tasted success by using their rants as bargain tactics. Most countries have realized this game now. India is unable to act because of the sheer size and impact of this vote-bank.
so OUTLOOK has travelled a lot from..
1. modi should be hanged and his brains should be examined for eveil genes since hitler is dea
2. modi himself killed the 59 hindus to kill 750 muslims
3. modi planned and executed the riots etc etc etc
to
can he run coallition govt?
so slowly but surely OUTLOOK is comming to terms that NAMO wil be the PM, sometime
So, the summary of this piece by Aakar Patel is that Modi will not be able to manage things are the centre, if he does indeed reach there.
Only Manmohan a fine leader can do it...
Oh yeah..?
This is the same manmohan who was gloriously silent, while his bubling duffer home minister was fumbling from aftermath of one terrorist attack after another, while expressing full confidence in his incompetence.
This is the same Manmohan, who invited AR Antulat, to hear his rant, after Antulay accussed a Hindu extremist conspiracy behind death of Karkare and co.Despite it being established that Kasab fired the bullets killing Karkare.
This is the same Manmohan, under whose watch, the nation is drowning in Narcotics wave. Tirupati-Tirumala has turned into a narco town, amongst others.
This is the same Manmohan singh, under whom Dawood Bhai Realty and Dawood Bhai Corporation came into being and listed on indian stock exchange....its another matter that officially they are called Dynamix Balwa Realty and Dynamix Balwa Corporation.
This is the same Manmohan singh under whom inflation has rendered the oridinary man despondent, while every other day a scam opens up, on which he wont comment, except for blaming the BJP/ NDA.
This is the same Manmohan singh, who was alerted of the 2g scam as it was unfolding, by Arun Shourie. Yet the great singh, being the great leader he is, he kept quiet.
This is the same Manmohan singh, under which Goa became a Hub of Narco-Money laundering.
This is the same Manmohan singh being the great leader he is, refuses to comment on cancellation of 2G licences by SC.
This is the same Manmohan singh, under whom Dawood Ibrahim's brother is a free man in india.
Modi moving to delhi will be Gujrat's loss and India's loss. Gujarat's loss for obvious reasons. India's loss, because gujarat will be a gem worth far beyond what anyone can imagine while he continues there.
Its funny to see, how things turn out, the media having taken out a big stick to beat modi, realize that nothing is coming out of it, now media wants to retire the stick, however its ego makes it to try doing it under the garb of making modi expressing regret [when did he express approval that today all of a sudden he has to express regret].
Moreover, if he is guilty of having enabled the riots [200+ humans were killed in police action: comes to 7 killed a day for a whole month], he should be punished.
We need to wait for the Sanjeev Bhat episode to play out in whole...the man who knows everything and kept quiet till date.
If what sanjeev bhat said is true that indeed Modi asked for "Hindus to be allowed to vent their anger" in a meeting of top officials, then what happened of such orders?
Did the top officials who were in that meeting carry it out? because carrying it out would require the instruction to be transmitted, to the ground where the enforcers were deaing with the situation. Surely as the instructions travelled downwards to the enforcers, there must have been a leak somewhere there such instructions have come from the top?
Only Sanjeev Bhat heard the orders for "Hindu vengeance". The man who kept quiet for 10 years...who has refused to report to duty since Jan 2011, is a credible entity on whom the entire "Modi is complicit" narrative is based...
We need to see where Sanjeev bhat leads us to...
>>And so Modi has ruled a state whose population shares his party’s dislike of Muslims
Some people apparently discovered such profound moronic statements for the first time in B&W never mind few issues earlier liberals had called the Gujarati population criminal for voting Modi. Analysis of Gujarati people nowadays is so simple - if they vote for Modi, they must be Muslim haters! There must be some very sick minds amongst our liberals.
First I thought this was more about AB selling Gujarat to the rest of us (and may be beyond our borders). The photo looked like that and threw me off. Anyways, when I see AB and his Gujarat promotion - "snake oil salesman" is the only thought that crosses my mind.
Anyways, I too don't care for Mr. Modi but I must say the article seemed pointless. Except for the 1st time in B&W I see written .... "And so Modi has ruled a state whose population shares his party’s dislike of Muslims ....". and I agree.
Don't worry Aakar (Patel), Modi will be stuck with Gujarat, possibly a life long CM, and Gujjus with Modi. As the saying goes "we get the leaders we deserve".
>>> The Mein Kampf is very popular in India).
NARENDRA
The last time in a book exhibition, I just took the book Mein Kampf in hand and started browsing it. I heard a happy laughter behind me and I saw the stall owner in a big smile . I asked him what's so funny about it ? He said, "Sir, by any stretch of imagination I never thought I would sell so many copies of this book that I exhaust all my stocks and just now I have asked for another consignment to meet the demand and this is an exhibition copy not for sale. I wonder whats in that book that so many are buying and on seeing you taking the book in hand made me smile, sorry if I made it a laugh.The stall owner literally smiled all his way to the bank !!!!
>>Modi said that Godhra Muslims had criminal tendencies (" Godhra ke is ilake ke logon ki criminal tendencies rahi hain.")
It is well known that jihadis are not taught English in Madrassa - the above translation is a proof of that.
a handful of muslims who roasted karsevaks alive have tarred the entire muslim community. K.SURESH
Excellent counter propaganda.Serves right.
Rational arguments are proving worthless with dim witted seculars. Only way out is to follow their own methods of exaggerations, sweeping generalisations and offense as a form of defence.
>> Modi said that Godhra Muslims had criminal tendencies (" Godhra ke is ilake ke logon ki criminal tendencies rahi hain.")
How does that translate to "Modi tarred the entire Muslim Ghanchi community of Godhra when he testified before the SIT."?
You proved few days back that Physics, specifically Newton's third law of motion was taught at your Madrassa. Seems logic was not.
>> Delhi 1984 deserves full attention
Repeat that every day to yourself a 1000 times, particularly when you write posts about Modi, BJP, Gujarat, Bhat, Amit Shah, RSS, VHP, Babu Bajrangi, and so on.
Preach this also to the Vinod Mehtas and Arundhatis and Teestas and Aakars, and the rest of the jehadi crowd.
Suresh,
>>>> "Modi tarred the entire Muslim Ghanchi community of Godhra when he testified before the SIT." >> This is the kind of sweeping generalisation..... Modi said that Godhra Muslims had criminal tendencies (" Godhra ke is ilake ke logon ki criminal tendencies rahi hain.")
@Anwaar - "Modi tarred the entire Muslim Ghanchi community of Godhra when he testified before the SIT."
This is the kind of sweeping generalisation Aakar Patel indulges in. You are using the same argument. Let me assure you, for all your provocative arguments, no sane person generalises that - a handful of muslims who roasted karsevaks alive have tarred the entire muslim community. Nobody is a greater threat to the nation than a hate-filled secular who is using the muslim as a pawn.
>>Fascism & Theocratism are foreign to India.
No it is not - Nehru and his Congress created it and it has been kept alive in the form of Congress DNA till today.
>> the entire community has been tarred with a hideous brush.
>> don't you think his free pass to Congress on 1984 riots is a bit funny?
>> Why have there been a milliion articles on the Gujarat riots, while Delhi 1984 is doesn't get even a fracdtion of the attention?
>> Why are we supposed to sacrifice the well being of a Billion Indians for a community that always keeps its own interest above the rest of the country's?
That is a poor answer to give to those who speak up against an injustice.
>> Do you think that the Germans opted for Hilter because of a a misplaced sense of sadism?, or was it due to the grotesque social engineering that led to mass starvations and misery for their nation?
Aakar Patel is a lowlife who used to write trash regularly for the Mint and has the similar scruples to those casteists/communalists who admire him on this forum.
Hari,
>> Liberalism and henceforth its subset tolerance is ingrained in our Indian culture.
True, but there are exceptions.
>> Fascism & Theocratism are foreign to India.
Moonje, Savarkar and Golwalkar were so enamored of fascist and theocratic ideas.
And this is supposed to be the Indian progressive?
This is a blatanty casteist article, the entire community has been tarred with a hideous brush, and these guys are supposed to be the liberals?
This is the Marxist version of tolerance and harmony boys, if even a fraction of such hatred had been directed at Dalits, the writer would've been labelled the head of the SS.
Anwaar, don't you think his free pass to Congress on 1984 riots is a bit funny?
Don't you believe that there was no need to attack his entire community, or is that bullcrap reserved only for certain communities?
My questions for the Indian Marxist
1.Why have there been a milliion articles on the Gujarat riots, while Delhi 1984 is doesn't get even a fracdtion of the attention?
2.Why are we supposed to sacrifice the well being of a Billion Indians for a community that always keeps its own interest above the rest of the country's, heck, they care more for the Palestinians than they do for our own countrymen, and the last time I checked, THEY ALREADY HAVE THEIR OWN FUCKING COUNTRY, IT'S PAKISTAN.
3.Do you think that the Germans opted for Hilter because of a a misplaced sense of sadism?, or was it due to the grotesque social engineering that led to mass starvations and misery for their nation( think this is a far fetched comparison?, the Mein Kampf is very popular in India).
Anwar, Liberalism and henceforth its subset tolerance is ingrained in our Indian culture, even Conservatives in our land sound like liberals in other places. The ideals they seek to enforce are mild reminders of culture and nothing more. They are pacifists by nature, not aggressive. That is why we don't have the stringent intolerant laws of the Gulf States and other societies that mirror single race,single religion theme. [Religion itself is a concept foreign to India ,what we practice is Dharma which states that there are many paths to Truth (God)]
Mr.Modi too is one of us Indians & I'm sure his views would mirror the population he hails from, being deviant at the most to a very little extent.
Fascism & Theocratism are foreign to India.
They owe their roots to the Abrahamic religions which state strict adherence to rules & lines written in books written by unknown persons (perhaps an adaptation of the prevalent religious attitudes of their times).
>> He (Modi) also believes in universal amity.
That has to be the joke of the day!
Patel sahab, zara dekh lo ki kya hua tha dus saal pehle, riot control karne ki sabi step liya, tha, sena ko bi bulaya, mananiya CM ji ne. 28 saal pehle bhi tho dekh, us din ka varisht neta ne kaha riot situation pe, bade ped gira tho bhumi hila kartha.
Un dono mein itna farak hai, ek dhanga ko rok karne ke liye kaam kiya aur doosra dhanga ko aage badkar utne log ko hatya karne ki prayaas ki ......
Ab bolo kaun hai maut ki saudagar ........
Here in India all of us live on the principle of brotherhood,peaceful co-existence & understanding of each others cultures, habits developing a tolerance to some & respect to some aspects of each others culture. We do not mind living in the same compound,working in the same office, even marrying from a different culture...
I do think Mr.Modi is also that type of a person. He also believes in universal amity. The riot was an aberration held against him for too long. He has expressed sincere regret in not being able to control the situation. There is further no evidence that he aided & abetted a section of the rioters.The rioters were from both communities. Burning 60 persons is certainly a crime & it is sheer foolishness to expect that the community of those people woul accet their barbaric murder with a stoic silence ... I would like to know why the media don't follow up on the lives of the survivors & the family of those burnt alive ....
Well done Aakar Patel. If Modi-bashing does not help try Gujarathi-bashing, bring in caste if it helps.
By the way, I see you are attributing personal traits to caste and religion. Do you also attribute Manmohan's "ability to swallow his humiliation" to his religion ?
Two thirds majority in the Lok Sabha has a very twentieth century feel to it. Won't happen in this one.
>> Aakar Patel, whom I have admired for quite some time now, is a true Gujarati if Gandhis is the symbol of Gujarat
Whom you admire, be it Aakar, Sonia, Diggy or Osama is your business. But do you really have to insult Gandhi by bringing him in discussion over such a useless article?
Pankaj,
>> Irreversible result of Shiv Sena backed Riots in Mumbai and Saffron backed riots in Gujarat... LARGE SCALE HINDU-MUSLIM RIOTS ARE DEAD!
Large scale riots are dead only because the Shiv Sena and other saffronites have been reined in.
Aakar Patel, whom I have admired for quite some time now, is a true Gujarati if Gandhis is the symbol of Gujarat. For many in this forum however the symbol of Gujarat is someone allegedly complicit in a massacre!
I was referring to a post written some months ago by the Irreverent Indian proposing the concept of "permissible genocide" to deal with the stone throwing kids in Kashmir.
Manmohan Singh is a fine leader, and a good man, because he operates modestly within the confines of his limitations. He is able to swallow the humiliation that comes from the repeated ceding of his opening position. >>>
Whether on 2G or CWG or nuclear deal, or vote buying schemes of Sonia which are bankrupting this Country, the man has sold India's interest to save his job. He has knowingly betrayed the oath of office.
There is no need to compromise on corruption, or security or any important issue. You just need to do the job honestly.
Article is the usual Rudali Sangeet by Aakar Patel with ecstatic cries of Irshad, Irshad ,Marhawa... rendered by the fellow Rudalies .
akar patel...what if i tell u 'gabala' in gujarati.......it hurts right!!!!!
.pls mind ur language when u talk about someones cast and copmaring person with his caste.... and what is wrong with outlookindia and its editor. either they do not want to see what gujarti sees in modi or they got pseudosecular glasses...or is it something to do with vinod mehta's proximity to sonia.....need lot to explain.......i have read so many article on modi and riots.....pls make effort to write about his projects and work he has done if u r neutral magazine....if ur writers have no idea i list some of his project to get one article atleast..
1. solar power generation and modi's vision on it
2. power generation and efficiently running state elecricity board
3. gswan network and broadband to all taluka's and villages in gujarat
4. gas grid and network one of the largest in india
5. sucess of suart and ahmedabad as fastest growing city's in india and why?
list goes on.....
Irreversible result of Shiv Sena backed Riots in Mumbai and Saffron backed riots in Gujarat...
LARGE SCALE HINDU-MUSLIM RIOTS ARE DEAD!
Long Live Communal Harmony!
I have lived in Gujarat for 26 years, never read or heard about this Aakar Patel in any gujarati news paper...stupid attempt to establish credibility. Why doesnt he write about the caste of Godhra convicts...they were mostly muslim Ghanchis (oil extractors) even muslims (shia or sunni) hate them, even their jutti is not allowed outside the mosque.
Gujaratis calls Narendra Modi as NaMo (bow down), this panchali is a creation of loser congress's wishper campaign. BJP is going to increase tally from 125 to >150/188 in next election, not even Congress have doubt about it. Already some 100 muslim candidates of BJP has won in municipalty/jilla/taluka level.
Anwar from Dallas, I am assuming by the word "genocide" you are refering to the death of 790 odd muslims in Gujarat riots. I know, I know, you say 790 is just an official number and the actual death count is much higher. How much higher ? Majority of unofficial tallies put it down to 2000. 2000 muslim deaths is a "genocide" according to you ? May I remind you that 256 hindus were also killed - presumably by muslims ?
What happened in Gujarat was a communal riot. First muslims killed hindus. And then hindus killed muslims. The government ably led by Narendra Modi swiftly acted and limited the death count from going too high.
I will tell you what a "genocide" means. Genocide means what happened to Jews in WW2. 6 million killed. 6 million out of a population of 10 million. Now that is genocide.
How does the killing of 800 odd muslims, in response to the brutal massacre and burning alive of 56 hindus, most of them women and children, with cries of "Allahu Akbar" by a mob of 1000 odd muslims emerging after doing their namaaz at the local mosque, qualify as genocide ? The deaths of muslims was regretable, but it was only a response, and a spontaneous response to the evil deeds of Indian muslims in Godhra targeting and burning alive women and children merely because they happened to be hindu.
Now, if you people think what happened in Gujarat was "special" and only because of criminal culpability of those in power, I suggest you repeat what you people did in Godhra railway station in Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Patna, Lucknow, Kolkata etc. What happened to you in Gujarat will then appear as a picnic in comparison.
In fact the only reason you people have not repeated what you did at the Godhra railway station all over India is because you were taught a lesson by the people of Gujarat. Otherwise every 6 months dozens of hindu women and children all over India would be burnt alive with cries of "Allahu Akbar".
>> Surprising that the man who struts around as a walking enclclopeida on Ishrats, Sohrabuddins, CAIR and other assorted terrorists is so misplaced on the facts about elected governments he so rabidly hates!! Amit Shah was the Home Minister.
As an advocate of genocide for whom Muslim life means nothing, you may not know that newspapers sometimes loosely refer to ministers of state as "ministers". But see this news report:
"Amit Shah, one of Narendra Modi's closest aides, has been charged with murder in the Sohrabuddin fake encounter case. Shah, who is also Minister of State for Home in Gujarat, has been denied anticipatory bail by an Ahmedabad court."
www.ndtv.com/article/india/amit-shah-skips-appointment-with-cbi-in-sohrabuddin-case-39194
Is Rahul Gandhi campaigning in Gujarat this year for Congress, for the state elections? I hope he does not and hence save himself for 2014.
With international attention on Modi, it's time to balance the books with articles like this. And who says casteism is dead? Perhaps the author can tell us which caste Rahul Gandhi is and how this will determine his ability to govern.
This article is absurd and full of stupidity. Even to discuss it's are contents are a waste of time. Modi is the only man who is fit to be PM of this country and a hope for the future of new India. Chaprasi MMS has degraded the office of PM and made it a doormat of a Mafioso.
>> "Amit Shah was not the Home Minister. He was the Minister of state for Home." - Anwaar
Really!! Surprising that the man who struts around as a walking enclclopeida on Ishrats, Sohrabuddins, CAIR and other assorted terrorists is so misplaced on the facts about elected governments he so rabidly hates!! Amit Shah was the Home Minister.
@ Sanjay M - do you mean that Gujarat is trying to become like Pakistan? How about Dot Busters in NJ or the Dravidian Parties (both of them) in Tamil Nadu?
I agree with the author: Only Amul baby has the right ingredients to fulfill the responsibilities of a leader of the world's largest democracy.
People who have read this author's silly articles in The Tribune (of Pakistan) would be scratching their heads as to how this turret managed to get his puerile arguments published in the Outlook. He is the (unofficial) spokesperson of the Gandhi family.
>> sickular bigots must know that Amit Shah was the Home Minister.
Apart from the ugliness of phrases such as "sickular bigots" coming from your ugly mind, Amit Shah was not the Home Minister. He was the Minister of state for Home.
>> all these four ministries are under a SINGLE umbrella in Gujarat.
The point was that they are all under Modi. Modi has kept with himself the general administration, planning and home, and other important portfolios like industry, mines and minerals, energy and petrochemicals, ports, information and broadcasting, Narmada, Kalpsar, science and technology, modernisation of administration and training. The points that Aakar Patel makes are excllent. He knows the turf.
I feel Outlook is going the Times of India way. They, as a policy, publish one article bashing Modi and one article praising R.Gandhi everyday.
This enrages most of the consumers of English media and they comment by the dozen every minute on the articles -in this process toi makes thousands of dollars though online advertisements, based on the number of hits.
Coming to Aakar Patel, he seems like an apprentice learing the tricks of baseless slander on famous people. In the below article he makes good attempt at belittling all the superstars of Bollywood in one go.
http://www.livemint.com/articles/2012/02/16194933/The-men-behind-our-stars.html
Oh dear god! Another article on Modi?
Outlook should pay him a fat royalty. Seems like the salaries of the Sabas and the Smitas, imported wines of Vinod Mehta and the French cheese for editor are all effectively paid for by Modi.
What an obnoxious gutter level article ! I guess everything is valid in Modi bashing.
IS there no editorial policy or review process at outlook? Modi bashing sells but the artice shoud atleast make an iota of sense.
Ohh, so Modi rules a "house so riven"? Perhaps you've failed to notice that if the houses in Pakistan and Bangladesh are not riven, then it's because the minority communities in those countries have been bowed down to the ground by the majority religion there. And yet none of the practitioners of that religion see fit to criticize such things, even as they bleat for victimhood status for themselves.
If Islam wants to get along better with the rest of the world, then it needs to stop its moral hypocrisy. Where that community is in the majority, they want all laws to exclusively cater to themselves, with no place for minorities. When that community is in the minority, then of course they want full minority rights. It's hypocrisy - and it's an hypocrisy which none have had the decency to repudiate or dissociate themselves from.
>> "He has never entirely entrusted the home ministry to another."
Despite that escapist qualifier of "entirely", the sickular bigots must know that Amit Shah was the Home Minister before they rallied behind terrorists to have him ousted. The fact that they run for a terrorist' cause just to get back at their hate-icon, speaks for itself.
>> " Is it a coincidence that the ministry portfolios vital to Adani (ports and mines), Mukesh Ambani and Essar (petrochemicals), Tata (industry) and Anil Ambani and Torrent (energy) are all with Modi?
Very deftly, this scoundrel cleaved the four ministries to pass off his hatred as an argument!! If he had been a man with some sense of fairness, he would have known that all these four ministries are under a SINGLE umbrella in Gujarat - Civil Aviation, Industries, Mines, Minerals, Finance, Energy & Petrochemicals. Saurabhbhai Patel is the the Minister of State for these areas. Unlike his icons who have a jumbo cabinet doing nothing except occasional turf wars, Modi had centralized such decision-making at the top as part of his initiative to do away with red tapism and drive his single-window clearance.
>> "The blame for all the incompetent policing and sloppy investigation during and after the 2002 riots can be laid directly at Modi’s feet, who is also Gujarat’s home minister."
It was worse than incompetent and sloppy. It was dishonest and diabolical. Aakar Patel's assessment of Modi is truthful and incisive.
Let me speculate as someone who knows him and has worked for a Gujarati newspaper in Ahmedabad.
Stopped reading right there.
So what you trying to prove ? Manmohan and sonia is best for the coountry? Better you try to prove sun rises in West.
Every second article by Aaker Patel is a variation of expressions of feeling of distaste for Modi. Mostly Patel offers his juidgements on exactly why Modi is in his view the greatest scum that ever walked the surface of earth. On many occasions Patel also makes a point of sneering at Modi's caste, the lowliness of which, is partly to blame for Modi being such a loser in his opinion. Indeed, in one such article Patel also offered charming vignettes on how he and his family have historically looked down upon Modi's Ghanchi class. Patel repeats this particular thread of argument yet again in this article.
There are actually laws in India that criminalises the act of using a person's caste to express a criticism of that person. Its just that Modi is a hindu fascist and Patel is a tried and tested secularist. Otherwise, some people might have seen it fit to have Patel persecuted for casteism and send him to jail. Instead he gets space in national newsmagazines and newspapers to espouse further on the unsuitability of both Modi and his caste.
Who is this Bekar err Aakar Patel ? Never saw any of his Article here or any where .
OutLook proposes anti Modi campaign and Time Magzine disposes !
Big money loves Modi.....How great the hate campaign?
Narendra Modi a firm, no-nonsense leader: Time Magzine
Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi may pose a challenge to Congress's young scion Rahul Gandhi in India's next parliamentary elections, Time magazine has said.
Modi, who figured on the cover page of the latest issues of the Asia edition of the prestigious magazine which hit the stands on Friday, could put up a challenge to Gandhi in particular after the recently held Uttar Pradesh assembly elections, where Congress fared poorly.'With two years left before the next national election in 2014, Congress hopes its young scion, Sonia's son Rahul, will refresh the party, but a resounding loss in a recent state election makes him look vulnerable,' Time said.
www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-narendra-modi-a-firm-no-nonsense-leader-time/20120317.htm
Meanwhile Congress Leaders in Gujarat have already started Rona Dhona to be followed by Tessta Rudali Brigade who will say that Time is another pro Bhagwa Magzine
@Aaakar Patel,
This is the first article directly insult's Modi's caste/community. If you want to hate Modi, and write things about Modi, go for it, there is a whole industry. Why do you have to go down such a racist level ?
On what basis are you saying "Manmohan Singh is a fine leader" ? - oops I forgot 2G, CWG, CVC, Antrix-Devas .. i did't see it, i didn't say it, i didn't hear it !!!
"But since his government is dependent on allies, he persists, preferring tactical retreat to martyrdom" - well if MMS so good (according to you), he/congress should not have any problem facing election and getting absolute majority, right ?
I am from Ahmedabad....but i can't recognize the writer or even i can't come up with any of his article in Gujarati.....He must be come into the race to get some publicity....surely. For the article he written above.....its total pointless and misdirectional......
A pointless article.
What would Narendra Modi do?.......I cannot say.
That should have been a perfect ending, not the beginning.
He will be a poor manager of coalitions
This is the central piece to the article, a preconceived point and premise that he wants to drive home. For this, he weaves a web of caste, Gujju psyche, and an insider view of a Gujarati journalist. He should have stuck to "I cannot say/do not know".
The author's attempt to paint Manmohan as a "fine leader" and draw a contrast between him and Modi is the joke of the article.