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the bohras female circumcision
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A primitive rite for Bohra women sees its first murmurs of protest


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Daily Mail
Digression
1
Dec 26, 2011
At the Edge of Unreason

There’s one aspect to female genital mutilation practised by Bohras that goes untouched in your articles (The Yin, Wounded, Dec 5, and A Rite of Wrongs, Dec 12)—the blind, zombie-like obedience to the Syedna, which allows him to keep within his grasp even the most private aspects of their lives.


Yogi Raj, on e-mail


Thanks for highlighting the hush-hush and taboo subject of female genital mutilation among the Bohras. All Bohra women have to take a stand against this, despite the fear of ostracism. Of course, it’s easier said than done.


Rehana Hoosein, on e-mail


Congrats to Debarshi Dasgupta for his reporting on female genital mutilation among Bohras. Many Bohri women like me want to see an end to this senseless ritual. I hope there’s an outrage in the community and the practice ends. Men too must join women in speaking out against this practice.


Haseena Vahanvaty, Mumbai


Hats off to Outlook for the article on female genital mutilation among Bohras. There’s a need for awareness against this practice and more than anything else, it has to come from within the community.


K.V. Raghuram, Wayanad


How can women be treated so inhumanly and shamelessly just to keep them sexually enslaved? Female genital mutilation among Bohras should stop at once. May God help them see good sense.


Kailash Jain, on e-mail


I trembled on reading about the barbarous practice of female circumcision, carried out by rustic, elderly women, using razor blades, among Bohras. I am at a loss to understand why such a practice is still alive.


M. Rama Krishna, Kakinada

Order by HAVE YOUR SAY
1/D-89
Nov 26, 2011
07:01 PM

If this article moves you, please sign : http://www.change.org/petitions/hh-dr-syedna-ban-female-circumcision-ladkiyon-par-khatna. you can use facebook or register. also join em on fb savegirls fromfgm

tasleem
mumbai, India
2/D-98
Nov 26, 2011
07:25 PM

Removing the prepuce (clitoral hood) of a female is the exact equivalent of removing the prepuce (foreskin) of a male.  I don't consider it acceptable to do either to children.

Male circumcision also became popular in the USA in the 19th century as a way to discourage masturbation btw.

Everyone should be able to decide for themselves whether or not they want parts of their genitals cut off when they're old enough to give informed consent.  It's *their* body.

ml66uk
Manchester, United Kingdom
3/D-110
Nov 26, 2011
07:54 PM

Why are there no MALE RIGHTS PROTESTS against male circumcision in the SAME religious sect?

Is it that only females feel pain, and males are worthless anyway?

How insensitive!

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
4/D-112
Nov 26, 2011
08:03 PM

Eunuchs are born from brutality to male reproductive capability. And there is not even a whimper of protest from even MALE RIGHTS GROUPS! How insane can this get?

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
5/D-134
Nov 26, 2011
10:17 PM

The benefits of male circumcision is well known and well documented.It may be left to the males to decide when they grow up instead of having to do in childhood.Many of Hindu friends too have done circumcision because their foreskin is often torn during intercourse.They either do it full or have it cut at the place that joins to the bottom.

As far as females are concerned this is not sn issue.Not even clenliness.It should not be encouraged for them.There is no religious decree either in Islam.There is one hadith that says this can be done in a mild way.Beside this there is none and Muslims have reservations on many of the Hadiths.

Islam is against Gurus and their control.But some Muslims sects have adopted and created sysem and vales that are to the welfare of the preist class or for the benefit of the few rich.

Nasar Ahmed
Karikkudi, India
6/D-10
Nov 27, 2011
02:12 AM

The "health benefits" of male genital cutting are bogus or exaggerated - slight reductions in rare diseases of late onset that may be better prevented or treated by other means, as and when they arise. As described here, the female version is actually milder than the male, since the clitoral hood (female prepuce) is not as richly innervated as the male prepuce, but it may be much worse. Male and female genital cutting are both carried out for the same wildly varying and irrational reasons (though an anti-sex theme underlies both, as such an attack on anyone's genitals must imply). It is this irrationality that underlies  Quresh Ragib's refusal to even discuss Tasleem’s petition, suggesting he has some involvement with the practice.

Regardless of severity or excuses, all non-consented, non-therapeuitc genital cutting is a human rights outrage and must stop.

Hugh7
Porirua, New Zealand
7/D-68
Nov 27, 2011
10:54 AM

Please do not make this a mgm/fgm battle. this is a dishonour to women, trying to subdue their desires, treating them like cattle only meant to procreate. If you feel strongly about mgm or eunuchs raise your voice against that and I will help you. Here little girls need protection- from their own pparents.

tasleem
mumbai, India
8/D-78
Nov 27, 2011
03:01 PM

7, Tasneem,

Appreciate your concern for violence against females.

Unfortunately there is a trend, supported by the media, that ONLY females have rights to defend themselves, and that males somehow 'deserve' whatever little they get. And unfortunately, males have no groups to defend themselves as a gender.

May I also ask why these female groups never bother to ask to stop mutiliation of MALE genitals ( sometimes castrated), if they are so humane ( much less, concerned ), that too in their OWN community?

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
9/D-79
Nov 27, 2011
03:02 PM

If you cant call this hypocrisy, at least ackowledge this to be insensitivity!

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
10/D-88
Nov 27, 2011
06:27 PM

FGM gets more attention because it alters a woman's sex life. and femlae libido is generally lower than a man's (specially after 35). so it is extremely unfair. MGM should be tackled in a different forum. Please do not take up the issue here. the Bohri girls need all the help they can get - what with their own parents doing this to them.

tasleem
mumbai, India
11/D-92
Nov 27, 2011
07:42 PM

It is irrelevant whether the practice is sanctioned by religion or tradition or by a community or cult leader. The practice is impossibly vile and barbaric, and must be stopped. Those who find it acceptable to visit such violence upon children (including some of the commenters above)  have either taken leave of their senses, or belong to that class of humans of whom Einstein said "have no need for a brain. The spinal cord alone is enough."

Ragster
Chennai, India
12/D-96
Nov 27, 2011
08:16 PM

11

 'Violence against males' does not fit in with the media ( and anti-male ) agenda of stereotyping only females as 'victims' in anything they do.
 

10, I do not understand what libodo has to do with anything here. Unless that is, you want to quote some useless 'research' funded by feminists here.

WAKE UP, MALES!

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
13/D-97
Nov 27, 2011
08:18 PM

10, Tasleem,

'Do you support genital mutilation of males?'

'Yes' or 'No',?

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
14/D-103
Nov 27, 2011
08:47 PM

For that matter, Ragster or any other commentator can also answer the question :  'Do you support male circumcision or not?'

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
15/D-112
Nov 27, 2011
09:46 PM

MGM is for hygiene and health reasons. FGM is to curb a girl's sexuality - that's why my refernce to libido. MGM doesn't affect a guy's libido. FGM (even type 1 does). why don't you write about MGM, start a petition on that. I'll support you. But let me focus on ending this barbaric ritual of FGM. I suggest you guys google it first and read about it. It is far worse than MGM and has much more terrible implications. That doesn't mean I support MGM - but you will know why I feel so strongly about FGM>

tasleem
mumbai, India
16/D-117
Nov 27, 2011
10:15 PM

Tasleem, I dont think feminists really believe in any 'proof' - either about libido or hygiene.

Actually, they want to ban female mutilation, while they quote unreliable 'research' about male 'hygiene' to justify violence against males.

A PITY that males dont have the guts to speak up!

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
17/D-118
Nov 27, 2011
10:26 PM

MGM might be bad, but FGM IS to curb sexual need. if u see the article, Deb has mentioned it was because traders didnt want their wives or daughters having fun behing their backs when they went  on tours. this is the first time a national magazine of repute has spoken about such a terrible , secret tirtual. by turning it into a gender fight, you are diminishing our efforts. what you want to say about MGM is right - lets take it up in a different forum. right now little girls need protection.

tasleem
mumbai, India
18/D-119
Nov 27, 2011
10:27 PM

And everytime I bring this topic up, the community says - but we all go through it - men and women. thats why the need to differentiate the purpose.

tasleem
mumbai, India
19/D-120
Nov 27, 2011
10:29 PM

17 Tasleem

Little boys need protection too- unless you are budding bigot.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
20/D-121
Nov 27, 2011
10:38 PM

I agree. but please google the types of fgm - girls need it more. read about the 3 sorrows of a woman whos gone through FGM .

tasleem
mumbai, India
21/D-5
Nov 28, 2011
12:53 AM

Tasleem, all right thinking people should support your crusade against FGM. Why not file a PIL (Public Interest Litigation) in the Supreme Court, seeking a ban on this barbaric act. The Supreme Court is the upholder of the Constitution and such abhorrent practices, which are an infringement of human rights, will be outlawed by it.

D.L.Narayan
Visakhapatnam, India
22/D-23
Nov 28, 2011
05:38 AM

21, Narayan

If the SC really thinks that ONLY girls should be exempt from a religious ritual, while boys have to abide by it, then the country is SCREWED.

While it expected from anti-male activists to work for exactly this situation.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
23/D-24
Nov 28, 2011
05:39 AM

 " I agree. but please google the types of fgm - girls need it more. read about the 3 sorrows of a woman whos gone through FGM "

It is abhorring to read that ONLY females feel pain.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
24/D-26
Nov 28, 2011
05:59 AM

While sympathy for any female issue is natural and expected, it should not be forgotten that males too have similar issues.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
25/D-27
Nov 28, 2011
06:05 AM

The media should give EQUAL publicity for the pain endured by EUNUCHS during castration and BOYS during ritualistic circumcision.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
26/D-47
Nov 28, 2011
09:44 AM

so why don't you raise awarness aout MGM and eunuchs? Let me work on this cause. and it is much more than just pain - this is about subduing a girl for life, like she has no right to pleasure.

tasleem
mumbai, India
27/D-48
Nov 28, 2011
09:47 AM

@ Unblocked male (22)

Let us not obfuscate issues. It is just about FGM. Please start a campaign against castration and circumcision and other such issues; I assure you of my whole-hearted support.

I repeat; all right thinking people should support this anti-FGM crusade. It should not be construed as philogynism or misandrism, it is a fight for human rights.

D.L.Narayan
Visakhapatnam, India
28/D-59
Nov 28, 2011
11:58 AM

Tasleem
You are a courageous woman. I support your cause. I spent some school years in Udaipur, which has a sizable bohra muslim population. I was aghast when I learnt about this practice from my bohra friends way back in 80s.

You keep up the good work. Consider DL Narayan’s option too. Though I admit it would require you to come in the open and I can understand why you’d be apprehensive about it. Sydna has a strong hold on his community in Bombay and its not easy to resist powerful religious leaders of any faith. So tread with caution.

P.S. Ignore posters like Male Unhinged! We all do. He is a rabid MCP! Just not worth your time. you continue your good work.

Kiran Bagachi
mumbai, India
29/D-67
Nov 28, 2011
01:02 PM

This lady has tells us that female genitals are MORE TENDER than male!

And she goes on to DEFEND male mutilation - because they are UNHYGIENIC!

While female mutilation should be stopped because it leads to LOSS OF LIBIDO!

This is a direct insult to all Hindus who are supposed to have DIRTY genitals? 

WAKE UP to the insult! 

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
30/D-69
Nov 28, 2011
01:06 PM

 28

'Human' rights? My foot! You are only talking about FEMALE rights. Are males inhuman, then?

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
31/D-70
Nov 28, 2011
01:21 PM

I know male unblocked has signed the petition. he is just doing timepass here :)

tasleem
mumbai, India
32/D-72
Nov 28, 2011
01:25 PM

Female genital mutation is a terrible procedure, has no religious basis, and must be made illegal.

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
33/D-86
Nov 28, 2011
03:48 PM

Anwaar,  why ONLY female mutilation?

Tasleem, what makes you think that I am only passing time, while only you are serious?

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
34/D-93
Nov 28, 2011
04:55 PM

 Female genital mutation is a terrible procedure, has no religious basis, and must be made illegal. ......

So suppose it had a religious basis to it,  can continue ?? 

Any barbaric act should be condemed be it religous or not.

ANBanerjee
Newcastle, United Kingdom
35/D-94
Nov 28, 2011
05:00 PM

Banerjee, do you condemn MALE genital mutilation as well - whether religious or 'time pass'?

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
36/D-25
Nov 29, 2011
03:56 AM

Parthasarthy,

>> why ONLY female mutilation?

Removal of the foreskin is a minor procedure and has some proven health benefits. Contrary to what most Muslims believe, circumcision is not mentioned in the Quran. It is in the Hadiths and is carried over from the Talmud, the Jewish Bible. Instead of making it a religious rite, it should be a matter of decision based on medical knowledge at a given time.

Clitoridectomy, on the other hand, is a more risky procedure, and can have long term sequelae, including impairment of sexual functioning.

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
37/D-34
Nov 29, 2011
06:13 AM

Anwaar,

BOTH PROCEDURES are religious rituals.

BOTH PROCEDURES claim (concocted) medical benefits.

BOTH PROCEDURES are inflicted on young boys and girls. ONLY boys suffer painful castration.

BOTH PROCEDURES have no Real medical value - no arguments here about 'my religious belief vs yours' here, please. Religious sects have a vested interest in promoting 'health benefits'. Forget about the unconsented pain for a moment - the medical risks of bleeding and urinary infection are equal to that for a girl. It is medically unnecessary, is unethical when performed on newborns, is painful even when performed with anesthetic, adversely affects sexual pleasure and performance, and is a practice defended by myths.

Other than religious bodies which use 'paid' research to defend this abnoxious practice, there is currently not a single doctors' organisation that recommends routine circumcision for medical reasons.

And yet, MALES are silent victims, and females like Tasleem want it to stop claiming a loss of libido of all things - right or wrong!

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
38/D-35
Nov 29, 2011
06:16 AM

Here is a list of delayed medical / surgical complications ( other than bleeding and pain even under anesthetic ) of MALE circumcision, obviously denied by religious bigots. And how is it different from female?

Meatal stenosis may be a common longer-term complication from circumcision. Recent publications give a frequency of occurrence between 0.9% and 9% to 10%.

The opening to the urethra (meatus) may also be affected, leading to inflammation and meatal ulceration.

Urinary retention.

Venous stasis, the slowing down of venous blood flow.

Concealed penis.

Adhesions.

Skin bridges, when the cut skin attaches to the glans penis. Skin bridges do not commonly require surgical correction; rather, a brief, simple office procedure may be performed.

Painful erections

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
39/D-36
Nov 29, 2011
06:20 AM

Circumcision in MALES results in PSYCHOLOGICAL harm, including post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), with an incidence rate of PTSD (measured according to DSM-IV) of almost 70% among Filipino boys subjected to ritual circumcision, and 51% among boys subjected to medical circumcision (with local anaesthetic).

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
40/D-37
Nov 29, 2011
06:33 AM

And just what concocted stories of benefits do anti-male rights activists claim?

1. Urine infection : circumcision was associated with a higher prevalence of moderate-to-severe urinary symptoms

2. Protection against prostrate cancer : some statistically significant associations were found, although these can only be viewed as hypothesis

3. HPV : The role of male circumcision in female infection with HPV remains controversial

4. Penile cancer although neonatal circumcision seems to lower the risk of contracting penile cancer, because it is rare and occurs later in life, the use of circumcision as a preventive practice is not justified

5. Hygiene : Most of the other medical benefits of circumcision probably can be realized without circumcision as long as access to clean water and proper penile hygiene are achieved

6. Phimosis : this is common among children and disappears naturally.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
41/D-38
Nov 29, 2011
06:37 AM

7. HIV circumcision cannot be implemented as a public health intervention for prevention of sexually transmitted HIV

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
42/D-39
Nov 29, 2011
06:37 AM

7. HIV circumcision cannot be implemented as a public health intervention for prevention of sexually transmitted HIV

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
43/D-42
Nov 29, 2011
06:42 AM

IMMEDIATE COMPLICATIONS :

According to the AMA, blood loss and infection are the most common complications, but MOST bleeding is minor and can be stopped by applying pressure. Other complications, including urinary fistulas, chordee, cysts, lymphedema, ulceration of the glans, necrosis of all or part of the penis, hypospadias, epispadias, impotence and removal of too much tissue, sometimes causing secondary phimosis.

1. Infections are usually minor and local, but sometimes they have led to urinary tract infection, life-threatening systemic infections, meningitis or death.

2. Herpes - in Jewish circumcisers who practise Metzitzah b'peh,

3. Hemorrhage

4. Surgical mishap Mistakes can happen with any surgery. Surgical mistakes from circumcision include documented cases of penile denudation,[71] cutting off part or all of the glans penis, urethral fistula, several types of injury associated with certain types of circumcision clamps used and penile necrosis which results in loss of the entire penis.

5. Anesthetic risk includes Methemoglobinemia

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
44/D-43
Nov 29, 2011
06:46 AM

The consequences on the eunuchs are terrible, and yet, they suffer in silence as MALES are not listened to :

A subject of castration who is altered before the onset of puberty will retain a high voice, non-muscular build, and small genitals. He may well be taller than average, as the production of sex hormones in puberty—more specifically, estrogen via aromatization of testosterone—stops long bone growth. The person may not develop pubic hair and will have a small sex drive or none at all.

Castrations after the onset of puberty will typically reduce the sex drive considerably or eliminate it altogether. Castrated people are automatically sterile, because the testes (for males) and ovaries (for females) produce sex cells needed for sexual reproduction. Once removed the subject is infertile. The voice does not change. Some castrates report mood changes, such as depression or a more serene outlook on life, although this might not be to chemical changes but instead emotional changes due to the implications of the procedure. Body strength and muscle mass can decrease somewhat. Body hair sometimes may decrease. Castration prevents male pattern baldness if it is done before hair is lost. However, castration will not restore hair growth after hair has already been lost due to male pattern baldness.

Historically, eunuchs who additionally underwent a penectomy reportedly suffered from urinary incontinence associated with the removal of the penis.

Without hormone replacement therapy (HRT), typical symptoms (similar to those experienced by menopausal women) include hot flashes, gradual bone-density loss resulting in osteopenia or osteoporosis, and potential weight gain or redistribution of body fat to the hips/chest. Replacement of testosterone in the form of gel, patches, or injections can largely reverse these effects, although breast enlargement has also been reported as a possible side effect of testosterone usage
 

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
45/D-44
Nov 29, 2011
06:46 AM

Outlook, you talk ONLY about the yin.

How about the Yan?

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
46/D-64
Nov 29, 2011
10:00 AM

Anwaar, 

The ancient, bearded, bigots like you, who support this obnoxious ritual should be kicked between the legs to see their reaction - if they do not feel any pain. 'Ouch' that should hurt the medieval, religious mullahs who live by myths!

Probably only Then they will understand the suffering of an unwilling boy who goes through the trauma of seeing his TESTICLES cut off - leaving him UNREPRODUCTIVE FOR LIFE!

BAN RELIGION! CELEBRATE LIFE!

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
47/D-65
Nov 29, 2011
10:07 AM

CIRCUMCISION is probably related to the high levels of violence in those parts of the world where it is practiced.

Why dont bearded mullahs like Anwaar research that?

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
48/D-68
Nov 29, 2011
10:26 AM

"Outlook, you talk ONLY about the yin. How about the Yan?"

Outlook does respond - with a YAWN

K.Suresh
Bangalore, India
49/D-73
Nov 29, 2011
11:00 AM

# 48 

Are you insinuating that only homosexual editors will be interested in the Yan?

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
50/D-74
Nov 29, 2011
11:16 AM

"Outlook does respond - with a YAWN"

LOL!! Male Unhinged is having a rollicking time getting little Os!! He is finally holding centerstatge on an issue thats close to his....er...heart! He is so excited that is double-clicking the SEND button and posting the same message twice!!

Let him have his fun!!

Kiran Bagachi
mumbai, India
51/D-78
Nov 29, 2011
11:35 AM

Places where circumcision is practised have the MOST VIOLENT MALE MULLAHS

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
52/D-79
Nov 29, 2011
11:36 AM

If Kiran lends her Yan ( IF she still has one ) for castration, maybe she will stop laughing.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
53/D-85
Nov 29, 2011
12:01 PM

Males like to PRETEND to be MACHO.

THEREFORE, they do not complain. 

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
54/D-94
Nov 29, 2011
01:13 PM

Male unblocked should consider changing his moniker to MALE UNLEASHED.

D.L.Narayan
Visakhapatnam, India
55/D-98
Nov 29, 2011
01:43 PM

#51 - "Places where circumcision is practised have ..."

There is only one place on a human being where circumcision is practised.

K.Suresh
Bangalore, India
56/D-120
Nov 29, 2011
03:06 PM

..................Removing the prepuce (clitoral hood) of a female is the exact equivalent of removing the prepuce (foreskin) of a male...........................

This is totally wrong and absolute nonsense.

Clitorious is the one which exictes the women and not the sexual intercourse that goes on in vaginal canal. It is the rubbing, sensation that clitoris gets is the one which actually causes orgasm or deep levels of sexual satisfaction for a woman. It  equals a male penis.

No one whatever their religious authority , has any right to deny a blissful sexual pleasure of a  girl once she gets married. It is most inhuman. 

It is not equal to removing foreskin on a male penis, it is equal to the penis itself. 

 It is any body's  common knowledge that in a sexual intercourse, the foreskin ( on penis) goes back or sets back so that an erected penis enters female vagina. So, for a circumsribed person there is no such foreskin  while on uncircumscribed one, the foreskin goes back.

But for clitoris, it actually extends a little bit , when female is sexually exited and in foreplay, clitoris is the centre point of her nervous system in sex. Even while in a normal sexual act, which is offcourse quite a bit male chauvanistic in modern times, it has become only a " missionary position"that is male on top forcing a woman down . But in ancient , (read Kamasutra)  times it was "women on top" , which was the normal one !!! and also actually very satisfactory for woman and because the time of ejaculation is prolonged it is also satisfactory for a man as well.

And the clitorious is the one which gives the final orgasm because of rubbing it gets on its nerve endings  and certainly not the macho style male physical show on top of a helpless woman. If that clitoris is cut off with razer blade , what else is left for the girl ? It  equals to  making an eunch of a man, that is cutting off the bulbous part of a male penis so as to make him an eunch to protect 100 wives of a king. That is how eunches are made. Natural impotant eunches are extremely rare.

 read somwhere that woman's clitoris is cut off in some sections of Islamic world, but  I do not know that it is being practised in India itself. What a horrible ,most crule barabric act to commit upon helpless little girl !!!unbelievable !!

bowenpalle venuraja gopal rao.
warangal, india
57/D-126
Nov 29, 2011
04:12 PM

 Three cheers for religion.

Dinesh Kumar
Chandigarh, India
58/D-62
Nov 30, 2011
10:44 AM

MU,

Why this Kolaveri Macha?

Lopamudra
Mumbai, India
59/D-64
Nov 30, 2011
10:48 AM

Circumcision of males is one of the TOP TEN male rights issues listed in wikipedia.  But what counts however, is the power of the groups voicing the concerns and the media support. 

The legitimacy of the issue does not count. 

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
60/D-66
Nov 30, 2011
10:52 AM

The Yin has more voice in the media than the Yan!

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
61/D-86
Nov 30, 2011
12:52 PM

What a horrible ,most crule barabric act to commit upon helpless little girl !!!unbelievable !!

BOWENPALLE VENURAJA GOPAL RAO.
WARANGAL, INDIA

Please enlighten yourself about the dangers of circumcision and the sexual violence upon MALES through live castration. 

And leave aside gender-casteism at least in this!

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
62/D-87
Nov 30, 2011
12:55 PM

Says Tasleem. “One can argue that there are certain health benefits to male circumcision"

Please Tasleem, DO NOT USE THE MEDIA TO PROPAGATE MYTHS. If you have evidence of the same - MEDICAL EVIDENCE, AND NOT OF ANWAAR-LIKE MULLAHS - please quote the same and refute the evidence in the medical fraternity that I have quoted. 

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
63/D-108
Nov 30, 2011
02:51 PM

THIS ARTICLE should become one of the main reasons of bringing the media under a LokPal Bill.

The media should be made accountable for PROPAGATING MYTHS and ANTI-MALE SLANDER besides GENDER CASTEISM - in the form of avoiding publicity for castrations and circumcisions.  

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
64/D-120
Nov 30, 2011
05:15 PM

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision . WHO is recommending MGC for HIV prevention. Although, personally I feel it should be still left to a guy's choice, but it's not a myth Im  propogating , just a validated viewpoint. 

tasleem
mumbai, India
65/D-122
Nov 30, 2011
05:22 PM

 Tasleem

"Although, personally I feel it should be still left to a guy's choice"

This is height of hypocrisy, considering that no male below the age of 21 gives 'consent' in India. 

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
66/D-123
Nov 30, 2011
05:25 PM

The fact that NO MEDICAL BODY IN THE WORLD RECOMMENDS MALE CIRCUMCISION while only the WHO does so, shows the WHO to be infected with feminists and anti-males. Its recommendations should not be taken seriously. 

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
67/D-124
Nov 30, 2011
05:28 PM

 why would recommending MGC make someone anti-male? How will making a little boy cry for some time bring any satisfaction to media or feminists?  

tasleem
mumbai, India
68/D-131
Nov 30, 2011
07:09 PM

Tasleem,

I see that your arguments have changed from religion to HIV prevention :

1. Why would a feminist cry for the continuation of circumcision of males, and simulataneously ban it on females UNLESS she were an anti-male ( misandrist )?

2. Why have NO medical organisation in the world accepted circumcision as a necessary  'health target' except the WHO? Including the mullah infested countries?

3. Why should every male be circumcised to prevent HIV in females, instead of CONDOMS?

4. Is this not akin to asking for CASTRATING all males to prevent population explosion?

This whole argument stinks of misandry and religious bigotry.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
69/D-164
Nov 30, 2011
11:18 PM

I think Male Unblocked is bottom blocked, ie, **** retentive. Or he has a lot of time on his hands. I don't - i'd rather put my precious time to construcitve use

tasleem
mumbai, India
70/D-12
Dec 01, 2011
05:31 AM

Tasleem,

When you run out of arguments to defend using circumcision to prevent HIV, you resort to profanities and vulgarities!

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
71/D-14
Dec 01, 2011
06:05 AM

1. Its profoundly immoral, unethical and anti-male, for a feminist crusader for male circumcision to also want it banned on females! Circumcision is a TOP TEN male rights issue.

2. Even while wanting sympathy for the 'helpless young girls', she says that 'boys can CHOOSE whether they need circumcision or not'! Sheer hypocrisy here!

3. After running from religious arguments and later specious 'health' arguments, she takes shelter in a feminist authored WHO report against HIV! Madam, given a choice between a circumcised man and CONDOM, which one will YOU choose?

4. This article is no coincidence, but epitomises the feminist / anti-male support by the media.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
72/D-28
Dec 01, 2011
10:08 AM

42 out of 71 - Has MU exhausted his quota of comments for the month ?

K.Suresh
Bangalore, India
73/D-29
Dec 01, 2011
10:11 AM

MU,

You still have not answered where in UK male pregnancy rate is higher than female pregnancy rate, what you had earlier claimed on this thread www.outlookindia.com/feedbacks.aspx  ( post no : 21/D-39, on Daily mail section).

Please Enlighten us.

 

Lopamudra
Mumbai, India
74/D-31
Dec 01, 2011
11:13 AM

Lopumudra, 

If you are trying to make me look stupid, you will have to try a lot harder :) 

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
75/D-36
Dec 01, 2011
11:50 AM

MU,

Atleast after 43 comments I extracted smile from you... :-)  Thank God for little mercies!!

Lopamudra
Mumbai, India
76/D-44
Dec 01, 2011
01:31 PM

MU won't score a 50 here. Cheer girls are waiting to break into a dance.

K.Suresh
Bangalore, India
77/D-53
Dec 01, 2011
02:43 PM

Suresh, 

Feminists will find any number of supporters for their cause - anyday.

It takes courage to speak up for males.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
78/D-54
Dec 01, 2011
02:44 PM

Lopumudra, 

Other than taunting, I wonder if you have any substantive thing to say.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
79/D-55
Dec 01, 2011
02:44 PM

1. Its profoundly immoral, unethical and anti-male, for a feminist crusader for male circumcision to also want it banned on females! Circumcision is a TOP TEN male rights issue.

2. Even while wanting sympathy for the 'helpless young girls', she says that 'boys can CHOOSE whether they need circumcision or not'! Sheer hypocrisy here!

3. After running from religious arguments and later specious 'health' arguments, she takes shelter in a feminist authored WHO report against HIV! Madam, given a choice between a circumcised man and CONDOM, which one will YOU choose?

4. This article is no coincidence, but epitomises the feminist / anti-male support by the media.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
80/D-59
Dec 01, 2011
02:52 PM

MU,

Yes. I have.
Please start indefinite fasting for male rights! I promise, I will join, for indefinite half day fasting. 

Or, just get a Girlfriend !

Lopamudra
Mumbai, India
81/D-61
Dec 01, 2011
02:59 PM

Lopumudra, 

You are either trying desperately to trivialise the issue, or are trying to obfusicate it!

Either way, being a feminist, it is expected of you to support other feminists.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
82/D-62
Dec 01, 2011
03:01 PM

Most of these feminist authors are divorcess. Wonder what Tasleem is.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
83/D-65
Dec 01, 2011
03:19 PM

MU,

Feminist == Divorcee !!

Aai Shapath, you are making me devorcee before even before getting married!
What will happen to my boyfriend now?! If anything happens to him after hearing this, you will be solely responsible for torturing another MALE deliberatly.

Lopamudra
Mumbai, India
84/D-20
Dec 02, 2011
02:54 AM

Laws banning "female circumcision" (Female Genital Mutilation or FGM) exist in many countries including Burkina Faso, Central African Republic, Djibouti, Eritrea, Togo,  Uganda, Egypt, New Zealand, Sweden, UK, USA and several others. India too should ban it, while at the same time mounting a campaign of reform led by Bohra women themselves. Even after the passage of the law, it takes many years for the practice to eventually abate.

Legal banning and the work of social reformers together were effective in abolishing sati. FGM's comparison to sati may appear to be overreaching, but both entail expendability of women through taking life or a bodily organ necessary for full feminine wholeness. Abolishing such practices takes a long time, but imprisoning a few doctors and other practitioners of this voodoo art  may hasten the process.

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
85/D-34
Dec 02, 2011
06:55 AM

Thanks outlook !

Critics, however, say there is no mention of it in the Quran

But what stupidity is this ? Say, it sanctioned, then what ?

Sangeetha
Chennai, India
86/D-36
Dec 02, 2011
07:10 AM

Literature quoted by male rights activists :

1.^ El-Salam, Seham Abd (2002/2003). "The Importance of Genital Mutilations to Gender Power Politics". Al-Raida (Institute for Women’s Studies in the Arab World) 20 (99): 42. "Women’s defense of men’s right to bodily integrity and their work against MGM will not have a negative impact on their struggle against FGM."

2.^ Green, James (2007). The Male Herbal: The Definitive Health Care Book for Men & Boys (2nd ed.). Berkeley, Calif.: Crossing Press. ISBN 1580911757. "Circumcision: A Common Form of Disregard for Men's Rights… Glick emphasizes that infants are persons with full civil rights, and therefore no one has the right to impose circumcision on them—not even parents."

3.^ Denniston, George C. (1999). Male and female circumcision medical, legal, and ethical considerations in pediatric practice. New York: Kluwer Academic/Plenum Publishers. p. 348

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
87/D-73
Dec 02, 2011
03:01 PM

My questions is why do you people want to remain in the same religion which perpetuates this abhorrent practice.Leave the religion and become an atheist if you really think you need a religion for your develpoment as an individual convert to someother religion which doesn't have these practices.Encourage others of your religious community to do the same.Make the religious clergy unemployed and irrelevant.These religions should be consigned to the dustbins of history.

siva
chennai, India
88/D-76
Dec 02, 2011
03:04 PM

MALE UNBLOCKED
is really worried about male's rights against male circumcision which is reasonable.


As far as I know, the male circumcision has very limited benefit or no benefit at all.
For example HIV treating physicians say that after having sex with a potential HIV+ woman , a man if he immediately cleans his penis with just water alone, by pulling back the foreskin and cleans, his chance of getting infected with HIV is almost negligible, say , only just 5% , that is 95% there would be no chance. But the point is even if some one were to have sex with HIV+ woman ,and no cleaning of penis afterwards, the chance of contacting HIV is only 45+.

As everyone knows these percentages is a dangerous game.

For example one can get HIV even by kissing HIV+ woman( or man )  even only once , because he might very well be one of those 5% !!! (and inspite of the fact that saliva contains only upto 50% of HIV )So, taking this example how would a circumcision helps? Only in "cleaning the penis " aspect because there would be no foreskin!!! that is all.

But this (circumcision) entails, some negative traits like less sensation in sex and less pleasure, exposing the most sensitive part of penis (sponge tissue)  to rubbing by underwear etc., and for those who do not take bath everyday or before and after sex, it shall not make any difference because cleanliness is very necessary at least with water if not with soap water or dettol etc., The unconfrimed report is that circumcision actually reduces penis elongation in an erection by about 8 (eight) mm. The normal erected penis length in humans is about 5 to 5.9 (five point nine)  inches.


Penis circumcision, going by the logic , must be left to the personal choice and it shall not be a religious ritual.


Penis upper part region of whole length consists of chambers made of tissue, each of these chambers would be filled with blood, in an erection. The blood pressure in ( an erected) penis is double that of blood pressure of a normal human being. After ejaculation or without, this blood has to recede back again. This tells us that foreskin is very important protective nature's gift. Even in full erection, the foreskin would still be covering the front bulbous part to certain extent , and at this time it would be too thin to hold on. In a penetration of vagina , the foreskin moves back up to its attachment below. Again in normal situation it comes back to its position.


Circumcision is required only when you do not have water to clean or you live in extremely cold regions where one do not attempt to clean at all. Otherwise circumcision may be required only when the foreskin developed adhesions and would not move back , causing a tight ring in an erected condition (painful for male and blood may ooze out ).
This all means what? Circumcision should be left only to personal choice.

bowenpalle venuraja gopal rao.
warangal, india
89/D-82
Dec 02, 2011
04:39 PM

BOWENPALLE VENURAJA GOPAL RAO, 

The media only recognises and respects female rights. 

Males have no rights and no self-dignity. Not even a voice for themselves!

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
90/D-85
Dec 02, 2011
05:00 PM

@siva - people need the religion because a- they think that's the one true way and b- they need to belong. and most people, including women believe these rituals are necessary and a must.

tasleem
mumbai, India
91/D-91
Dec 02, 2011
07:09 PM

Siva,

Why dint you think of addressing your question to a womens rights activist?

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
92/D-96
Dec 02, 2011
08:01 PM

The 'MALE' has been systematically 'de' 'humanised' by the media ...

 ... to the extent that a MALE boys cry will never be heeded as much as a FEMALE girl!

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
93/D-98
Dec 02, 2011
08:06 PM

BOWENPALLE VENURAJA GOPAL RAO,

The most important problem with male circumcision, is that violence against the child ( just like in eunuchs ) leads to higher rates of violence in the societies where they live.

This fact must be recognised by the public in any discourse on the religions in the middle east.

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
94/D-8
Dec 03, 2011
04:01 AM

Parthasarthy,

>> The most important problem with male circumcision, is that violence against the child ... leads to higher rates of violence in the societies where they live.

While I neither support nor oppose male circumcision, are you suggesting that Jews are more violent than Christians?

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
95/D-69
Dec 03, 2011
05:45 PM

"I neither support nor oppose male circumcision"

That is because you are a religious fanatic. 

Male Unblocked
Chennai, India
96/D-76
Dec 04, 2011
05:40 PM

dear debarshi,

please accept my deepest gratitude for highlighting this cruelty. thank you mr.mehta. may god bless you both . i'm sure this article would be a stepping stone for starting something big which can help the innocent girls from being violated.

another request:

since you are often on tv nowadays, please bring this out in open on one the news channel. i'm sure you have lots of contacts there. on my part, i'll buy more than enough copies of your new book. but most importantly, you'll be helping to save  lots of innocent girls from suffering.

thanks and regards.

yogi
chennai, India
97/D-93
Dec 04, 2011
09:09 PM

Fresh news: FGM has started in Northers parts of Kerela. The doctors perform the surgery. Mothers-in-law want it done . Sigh!

tasleem
mumbai, India
98/D-33
Dec 07, 2011
09:58 AM

 Dear Tasleem,

Please don't be discouraged by shmucks like "male unblocked" that want to derail your movement.

They are like leeches who would be happy to hinder the good work done by one and all.

May Allah bless you and provide you strength enough to finish what you have started.

On the record, There is NO mention of FGM at all in Quran and burhanuddin better wake up from his slumber and set right at least THIS wrong.

yogi
chennai, India
99/D-93
Dec 09, 2011
06:36 PM

 @ Tasleem

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin is 52nd Dai-Al-Mutlaq (Sole Summoner) of Islam-Shia-Ismaili-Mustali-Taiyyeb Sect of Islam and has completed 900 hundred years. 

Tasleem should understand that current Syedna follows the same religious practise that has been followed by previous 51 Syedna from Yemen and India. 1st Sydena was appointed in Yemen by 21st Imam Grand son of Mohammed Prophet(PBUH) hence this ritual has direct link to grand son of Prophet and being 21st Imam he also ordains the same practise what his Great Grand father has premitted.

Also FGM has been accepted by Prophet himself and his grand sons.

hadees says  Circumcision is obligatory for men, and it is an honour for women

How circumcision is to be performed is mentioned in the hadith narrated by Umm ‘Atiyah, may Allah be pleased with her, according to which a woman used to perform circumcisions in Madinah. The Prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon Him) told her: "Do not abuse (i.e. do not go to extremes in circumcising); that is better for the woman and more liked by her husband.

What taslem has done that she has framed Female Circumsion as Female genital mutilation which carries dark tone in itself. 

If we go with the argument then Male circumsion is also not mentioned in Quran, but it is done.

Context is totally different where FGM is totally different thing done in Africa and other god foresaken countries .

Tasleem has just like other so called progressive bohras has invades sancity of our religious fabric and brought in forefront a topic to TRP frenzy media and audience, who have no understanding of our faith and have lamented with abuse and allegations.

Its Tasleem individual pain which she wants to play in public, but her work has caused more pain to US which Allah will only answer

Marc Anthony
Udaipur, India