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The Great Ground Zero Mosque Divide: Both conservatives and liberals draw wrong conclusions. The failure to find common ground weakens both the West’s culture of individual rights and the struggle against radical Islam


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1/D-4
Aug 25, 2010
01:36 AM
What does it really take to appease Conservative bloodlust ? Apparently murdering a million Iraqis and displacing 3 million and killing thousands of Afghans as revenge for 9-11 is not good enough. The scorched-earth policy of the West in regard to non_Western people is endemic. A handful of radical Wahabbi criminals were responsible for 9-11. Not Islam or Hinduism or Buddhism or Catholicism. To frame this entire debate as a 'clash of civilization' is exactly what the old hound Gingrich and his dogs (inclusing Palin) would like to do because we all are painfully aware how easy it is to win by division.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
2/D-7
Aug 25, 2010
03:00 AM
As an eye-witness I believe 9/11 is still a very sensitive issue for all New Yorkers if not for all Americans. Since Islamist bigots were behind the trade center attacks any linkage of Islam with 9/11 can make this issue potentially explosive.
With the US elections around the corner, what else could be a more divisive issue for politicians to rake up for reaping rich political dividends? If opinion polls are any indicators, the US voters are sharply divided on this issue.
( I personally am against any decision to stop building the mosque there, because Islamic terrorists and 9/11 perpetrators will be the eventual winner if we endorse and fall prey to their same ideology of religious intolerance ).
However, Rupert Murdoch and his manipulative media bandwagon has done a phenomenal job in giving political spin to this issue.
Let me quote from the New York Times columnist Frank Rich's article "How Fox Betrayed Petraeus" which gives a very good idea how right wing politics and their media raked up this issue:

THE “ground zero mosque,” as you may well know by now, is not at ground zero. It’s not a mosque but an Islamic cultural center containing a prayer room. It’s not going to determine President Obama’s political future or the elections of 2010 or 2012. Still, the battle that has broken out over this project in Lower Manhattan — on the “hallowed ground” of a shuttered Burlington Coat Factory store one block from the New York Dolls Gentlemen’s Club — will prove eventful all the same. And the consequences will be far more profound than any midterm election results or any of the grand debates now raging 24/7 over the parameters of tolerance, religious freedom, and the real estate gospel of location, location, location.

Here’s what’s been lost in all the screaming. The prime movers in the campaign against the “ground zero mosque” just happen to be among the last cheerleaders for America’s nine-year war in Afghanistan. The wrecking ball they’re wielding is not merely pounding Park51, as the project is known, but is demolishing America’s already frail support for that war, which is dedicated to nation-building in a nation whose most conspicuous asset besides opium is actual mosques.

So virulent is the Islamophobic hysteria of the neocon and Fox News right — abetted by the useful idiocy of the Anti-Defamation League, Harry Reid and other cowed Democrats — that it has also rendered Gen. David Petraeus’s last-ditch counterinsurgency strategy for fighting the war inoperative. How do you win Muslim hearts and minds in Kandahar when you are calling Muslims every filthy name in the book in New York?

You’d think that American hawks invested in the Afghanistan “surge” would not act against their own professed interests. But they couldn’t stop themselves from placing cynical domestic politics over country. The ginned-up rage over the “ground zero mosque” was not motivated by a serious desire to protect America from the real threat of terrorists lurking at home and abroad — a threat this furor has in all likelihood exacerbated — but by the potential short-term rewards of winning votes by pandering to fear during an election season.

We owe thanks to Justin Elliott of Salon for the single most revealing account of this controversy’s evolution. He reports that there was zero reaction to the “ground zero mosque” from the front-line right or anyone else except marginal bloggers when The Times first reported on the Park51 plans in a lengthy front-page article on Dec. 9, 2009. The sole exception came some two weeks later at Fox News, where Laura Ingraham, filling in on “The O’Reilly Factor,” interviewed Daisy Khan, the wife of the project’s organizer, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. Ingraham gave the plans her blessing. “I can’t find many people who really have a problem with it,” she said. “I like what you’re trying to do.”

As well Ingraham might. Rauf is no terrorist. He has been repeatedly sent on speaking tours by the Bush and Obama State Departments alike to promote tolerance in Arab and Muslim nations. As Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic reported last week, Rauf gave a moving eulogy at a memorial service for Daniel Pearl, the Wall Street Journal reporter murdered by Islamist terrorists in Pakistan, at the Manhattan synagogue B’nai Jeshurun. Pearl’s father was in attendance. The Park51 board is chock-full of Christians and Jews. Perhaps the most threatening thing about this fledgling multi-use community center, an unabashed imitator of the venerable (and Jewish) 92nd Street Y uptown, is its potential to spawn yet another coveted, impossible-to-get-into Manhattan private preschool.

In the five months after The Times’s initial account there were no newspaper articles on the project at all. It was only in May of this year that the Rupert Murdoch axis of demagoguery revved up, jettisoning Ingraham’s benign take for a New York Post jihad. The paper’s inspiration was a rabidly anti-Islam blogger best known for claiming that Obama was Malcolm X’s illegitimate son. Soon the rest of the Murdoch empire and its political allies piled on, promoting the incendiary libel that the “radical Islamists” behind the “ground zero mosque” were tantamount either to neo-Nazis in Skokie (according to a Wall Street Journal columnist) or actual Nazis (per Newt Gingrich).

These patriots have never attacked the routine Muslim worship services at another site of the 9/11 attacks, the Pentagon. Their sudden concern for ground zero is suspect to those of us who actually live in New York. All but 12 Republicans in the House voted against health benefits for 9/11 responders just last month. Though many of these ground-zero watchdogs partied at the 2004 G.O.P. convention in New York exploiting 9/11, none of them protested that a fellow Republican, the former New York governor George Pataki, so bollixed up the management of the World Trade Center site that nine years on it still lacks any finished buildings, let alone a permanent memorial.

The Fox patron saint Sarah Palin calls Park51 a “stab in the heart” of Americans who “still have that lingering pain from 9/11.” But her only previous engagement with the 9/11 site was when she used it as a political backdrop for taking her first questions from reporters nearly a month after being named to the G.O.P. ticket. (She was so eager to grab her ground zero photo op that she defied John McCain’s just-announced “suspension” of their campaign.) Her disingenuous piety has been topped only by Bernie Kerik, who smuggled a Twitter message out of prison to register his rage at the ground zero desecration. As my colleague Clyde Haberman reminded us, such was Kerik’s previous reverence for the burial ground of 9/11 that he appropriated an apartment overlooking the site (and designated for recovery workers) for an extramarital affair.

At the Islamophobia command center, Murdoch’s News Corporation, the hypocrisy is, if anything, thicker. A recent Wall Street Journal editorial darkly cited unspecified “reports” that Park51 has “money coming from Saudi charities or Gulf princes that also fund Wahabi madrassas.” As Jon Stewart observed, this brand of innuendo could also be applied to News Corp., whose second largest shareholder after the Murdoch family is a member of the Saudi royal family. Perhaps last week’s revelation that News Corp. has poured $1 million into G.O.P. campaign coffers was a fiendishly clever smokescreen to deflect anyone from following the far greater sum of Saudi money (a $3 billion stake) that has flowed into Murdoch enterprises, or the News Corp. money (at least $70 million) recently invested in a Saudi media company.

Were McCain in the White House, Fox and friends would have kept ignoring Park51. But it’s an irresistible target in our current election year because it revives the most insidious anti-Obama narrative of the many Fox promoted in the previous election year: Obama the closet Muslim and secret madrassa alumnus. In the much discussed latest Pew poll, a record number of Americans (nearing 20 percent) said that our Christian president practices Islam. And they do not see that as a good thing. Existing or proposed American mosques hundreds and even thousands of miles from ground zero, from Tennessee to Wisconsin to California, are now under siege.

After 9/11, President Bush praised Islam as a religion of peace and asked for tolerance for Muslims not necessarily because he was a humanitarian or knew much about Islam but because national security demanded it. An America at war with Islam plays right into Al Qaeda’s recruitment spiel. This month’s incessant and indiscriminate orgy of Muslim-bashing is a national security disaster for that reason — Osama bin Laden’s “next video script has just written itself,” as the former F.B.I. terrorist interrogator Ali Soufan put it — but not just for that reason. America’s Muslim partners, those our troops are fighting and dying for, are collateral damage. If the cleric behind Park51 — a man who has participated in events with Condoleezza Rice and Karen Hughes, for heaven’s sake — is labeled a closet terrorist sympathizer and a Nazi by some of the loudest and most powerful conservative voices in America, which Muslims are not? "
DC
NEW YORK, United States
3/D-11
Aug 25, 2010
03:28 AM
DC,

Thanks for posting Frank Rich's artcle.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
4/D-14
Aug 25, 2010
03:54 AM
If the Islamic Center has to be moved farther away from Ground Zero, it would not be a setback for Muslims. It would be a setback for what Americans like to see themselves as, a setback for the Bill of Rights that Americans are so proud of.

Fox TV, Russ Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin and Rudy Giuliani may have done more damage to the U.S. than Osama bin Laden. But some of the finest liberal voices too are equally eloquent, led by Mayor Blumberg of New York, Republican Congressman Ron Paul and the editorials as well as the op-eds in the New York Times, the Washington Post, TIME, Newsweek, Salon and Slate. There would have been a lot more if the Congressional elections were not just three months away.

For most entertaining coverage of this farce, watch Jon Stewart on the Comedy Channel. For most biting criticism of the neocons, watch Olbemann on MSNBC.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
5/D-16
Aug 25, 2010
04:36 AM
This isssueless issue will die a natural death once the pre-election hyperbole is over. We are only wasting time and energy on discussing this.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
6/D-19
Aug 25, 2010
06:38 AM
Given the kind of remarks Rauf has made about Hamas and Israel and America, one would be foolish to back a project led by this dude.

As for the question of respect, why is that the respect should always be shown by non muslims while muslims need not show respect to non muslims? After all, there are well over 100 mosques in NY city alone. No one has objected to any of those mosques. The issue is only with this particular one. If the famailies of the victims feel strongly against a mosque, why not respect their feelings?
Ganesan
Nj, USA
7/D-20
Aug 25, 2010
07:07 AM
"Let me quote from the New York Times columnist Frank Rich's article "How Fox Betrayed Petraeus" which..."


This is rich. NYT ran a full page ad in 2007 calling Petraus as General Betray Us. And now the same paper is worried about the General getting betrayed. It is very convenient to have short memories
Ganesan
Nj, USA
8/D-21
Aug 25, 2010
07:08 AM
"Fox TV, Russ Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin and Rudy Giuliani may have done more damage to the U.S. than Osama bin Laden."

So 3000 lives have less value than a mosque. Awesome logic.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
9/D-26
Aug 25, 2010
07:45 AM
Ganesan,

>> Given the kind of remarks Rauf has made about Hamas and Israel and America.

The supposedly offensive remarks are all moderate, true and sensible. They are presented as being offensive by people who are determined to smear him.

One example often quoted by his enemies is a statement he made on “60 Minutes” 19 days after the 9/11 attacks: “I wouldn’t say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States’ policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.”

They would have liked him to say that the United States policies had nothing to do with 9/11, but that would be an obvious lie. And yet people like you can't see it.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
10/D-27
Aug 25, 2010
08:06 AM
Ganesan,

>> NYT ran a full page ad in 2007 calling Petraus as General Betray Us.

An ad is not the same as editorial policy, although NYT was against the surge in Iraq. However that has nothing to do with Frank Rich's assertion, which is as follows: "Poor General Petraeus. Over the last week he has been ubiquitous in the major newspapers and on television as he pursues a publicity tour to pitch the war he’s inherited. But have you heard any buzz about what he had to say? Any debate? Any anything? No one was listening and no one cared. Everyone was too busy yelling about the mosque."

>>>> "Fox TV, Russ Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin and Rudy Giuliani may have done more damage to the U.S. than Osama bin Laden."
>> So 3000 lives have less value than a mosque. Awesome logic.

That is stupid. I am not going to throw any figures at you about how many Muslims were killed by the US/Israel axis both before and after 9/11. Suffice it to say that Osama bin Laden's act brought all Americans together, whereas your heroes Fox TV, Russ Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin and Rudy Giuliani are turning Americans against America's most basic values enshrined in the Bill of Rights. If they win, Osama wins!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
11/D-30
Aug 25, 2010
08:44 AM
--"So 3000 lives have less value than a mosque. Awesome logic"

And the ass-backwards logic of revenge killing a million Iraqis and Afghans and then claiming 'respect' for lives is beyond the pale. Ideally it should have been the other way round. A million dead Americans would mean a million fewer terrorists.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
12/D-33
Aug 25, 2010
09:12 AM
"They would have liked him to say that the United States policies had nothing to do with 9/11, but that would be an obvious lie"........ ......... "I am not going to throw any figures at you about how many Muslims were killed by the US/Israel axis both before and after 9/11."

POINT GRANTED. But, somebody needs to explain exactly what it is that pushes these thousands of disgruntled Muslims to viciously rape, attack, stone, chop, hang, burn etc. INNOCENT and NON-COMBATANT men, women and children from every non-Muslim religion percievable.

Osama has issues with USA because it the the strongest nation of non-believers that impedes his grand dream of Muslim Caliphate. Tomorrow, when China becomes the next superpower, Osama's fatwa will be kissing Chinese asses. Islamic terrorism will continue as long as there is (even) a single non-believer breathing on this planet. THE FACT THAT USA/ISRAEL AXIS RUFFLED MUSLIM ASSES IS JUST AN ALIBI.

What Rauf said does have a grain of truth, and has many supporters even within USA. And, it is also true that the community he represents can be less obdurate about the "Ground Zero Mosque". If I were a Muslim, I would respect the feelings of the berieved, however trivial and flimsy it may seem to me.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
13/D-35
Aug 25, 2010
09:45 AM
--"If I were a Muslim, I would respect the feelings of the berieved, however trivial and flimsy it may seem to me."

But you are not. You are Hindu. I guess thats the reason for your bigoted views.

--"But, somebody needs to explain exactly what it is that pushes these thousands of disgruntled Muslims to viciously rape, attack, stone, chop, hang, burn etc."

For a minute i thought you were referring to American Armed Forces in Iraq in the early days. Western Christians are responsible for the death of millions (20 million in WW2 alone) in the last century. In comparison Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists were essentially pacifists. Dont let these little facts mess with those gruesome, pornographic, violent images in your pretty little head.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
14/D-36
Aug 25, 2010
09:55 AM
@ Cata Maran

What kind of camel-dung logic would compare war to terrorism? War is fought between two armed entities. Terrorism is one armed entity enjoying the death of an unarmed (and usually, unaware) innocent.

Beyond a point, even a vampire stops being blood-thirsty. You guys have no end.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
17/D-40
Aug 25, 2010
10:02 AM
@Cata: "You are Hindu. I guess thats the reason for your bigoted views."

The moment you published that, you discredited Islam more than taunting Hinduism.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
19/D-42
Aug 25, 2010
10:50 AM
Irreverent,

>> viciously rape, attack, stone, chop, hang, burn etc. INNOCENT and NON-COMBATANT men, women and children from every non-Muslim religion percievable.

This is despicable and I have condemned it innumerable times. The vast majority of their victims have been Muslims, not non-Muslims. But this discussion is about Ground Zero project.

>> Osama has issues with USA ...

I am not a defender of either Osama or of the 9/11 attack, but to say that on 9/11 a completely innocent country was attacked would not be quite correct.

>> If I were a Muslim, I would respect the feelings of the berieved.

At ground zero they have several bars and a strip club. There are several churches also. To concede their demands would be to concede that Islam was responsible for 9/11. Those trying to build the mosque are promoters of peace and inter-communal harmony. Some of the berieved support them.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
20/D-43
Aug 25, 2010
11:05 AM
"Imams comment on Islam taken out of context, says US."

http://timesofindia....icleshow/6430141.cms
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
21/D-44
Aug 25, 2010
11:19 AM
"the initial decision to name the building after Cordoba, the first major Spanish city to fall to Muslim armies during their eighth-century conquest of the Iberian Peninsula, was no coincidence."

I agree. Among so many options, they choose 'Cordaba' as symbol for Muslim's Arab victory over Christian West. It reveals the mindset of mosque sponsors. They are no saints. No matter how moderate they portray for themselves, they always find good reason for 9/11, starting with the US government foreign policy.

I am no fan of fox news channel and the extremist elements in the Republican party. The New York muslims are fighting for their constitutional right and building the mosque. How would they react if the buildings next door exercise same constitutional right and display Muhammad's cartoon?
Few months back a NY university invited the Danish cartoonist to deliver a speech but was forced to back out due to threat from the muslims. Till date no major US media has dared to published the Muhammad's cartoon even though it caused riots and made headlines.
Clearly fundamentalist muslims have won. The constItutional right of free speech does not apply to their detractors.
Rajesh
Phoenix, United States
24/D-49
Aug 25, 2010
11:44 AM
>> “I wouldn’t say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States’ policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.”

I wouldn't say that the Muslims deserved the Godhra aftermath, but the Muslims' policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.

Wonder if you would have been so patronizing if someone had made the above statement.
Whats InAName
San Francisco, United States
26/D-51
Aug 25, 2010
11:59 AM
CORDOBA:

The greatest story told of Cordoba is
that of people from a variety of faiths, ideologies,
disciplines and convictions, all converging to create
one of the most glorious periods, in which people
excelled on all levels beyond imagination. Not only in
areas of theology and religious studies, but also in
philosophy, science, carpentry, architecture, medicine,
mechanics, art, music and more – a society which listened to all ideas and welcomed all initiatives,
reached unprecedented heights of achievement.
Behind all that, the real story to be told was that of
the people; all people communing together, debating,
discussing, arguing even, but all within the spirit of
attaining advancement and success.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
27/D-52
Aug 25, 2010
12:20 PM
New York mayor Blumberg, speaking at a traditional dinner at Gracie Mansion as part of Ramadan, sought to tamp down the opposition and regain control over a national debate that has escalated by the day, starting as a local zoning dispute and becoming a referendum on the limits of religious tolerance in an age of terrorism.

Mr. Bloomberg, flanked by the center’s developer and the wife of its imam, said he understood the impulse to find a different location, in the hope of ending the controversy.

“But it won’t,” the mayor said. “The question will then become, ‘How big should the ‘no-mosque zone’ around the World Trade Center be?’ ”

He added: “There is already a mosque four blocks away. Should it, too, be moved? This is a test of our commitment to American values. We must have the courage of our convictions. We must do what is right, not what is easy.”

It was Mr. Bloomberg’s second major speech in three weeks supporting the plan, and its soaring tone and forceful arguments suggested that he had firmly embraced his role as a national defender of the plan for the center, even as high-profile voices have called for a re-examination of the wisdom of the current site.

Mr. Bloomberg rejected those calls, arguing that to move the center would slight American Muslims and damage the country’s standing.

“We would send a signal around the world,” he said, “that Muslim Americans may be equal in the eyes of the law, but separate in the eyes of their countrymen. And we would hand a valuable propaganda tool to terrorist recruiters, who spread the fallacy that America is at war with Islam.”
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
28/D-53
Aug 25, 2010
12:20 PM
MASJID-E-TOWERSTHAN

is perfect , factual ,non offensive,non-controversial and non communal name.

CORDOBA or any other similar name based on some Historical events will rake past memories of Conquest of some and defeats of others in Religeous Wars.Why raise communal tempers.

Whole debate becomes meaningless if we indulge in falsification of the facts.

Stick to facts with correct reference to the location and recent events.
ram prasn haryanvi
Ambala Cantt, India
29/D-54
Aug 25, 2010
12:27 PM
Three letters to the Editor of The New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.c...que.html?ref=opinion
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
31/D-57
Aug 25, 2010
01:55 PM
"We would send a signal around the world,” he said, “that Muslim Americans may be equal in the eyes of the law, but separate in the eyes of their countrymen. And we would hand a valuable propaganda tool to terrorist recruiters, who spread the fallacy that America is at war with Islam.”

Mungeri Lal key Haseen Khawab !

[ Nothing like this will ever happen. Nor America's image will change in the Muslim World in near future.]
a k ghai
mumbai, India
32/D-59
Aug 25, 2010
02:20 PM
Can I ask a simple question from the supporters of this mosque. Can a hindu build a temple or a christian a church in Mecca.

If pluralism is not followed in Muslim majority countries then what right do muslims have to ask for those rights in other countries.

Mr Rauf wants to fight for inter-communal peace. Let him build a church in Mecca/Medina. It will show his commitment towards multi-culturalism.
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
33/D-60
Aug 25, 2010
02:48 PM
The issue of the Ground Zero mosque may go against Muslims whatever be the outcome. In case mosque is built, upon the principle and guarantees provided by the US constitution, for which the Muslims will need to stick their necks out and run a divisive campaign, it will ensure enduring illwill against Muslims by majority Americans and grant radical Islam an undesirable conspicuity.

In case the mosque project is shelved, it will then be taken as a defeat of its Islamic proponents.

All this for a mosque which is blocks away from the exact WTC towers location, not being built in opposition of US principles but in accordance to them.

In view of above, Obama's words sound apt that the mosque construction has to be supported as a matter of principle, but the wisdom of such an act is not guaranteed.

The Muslims have unnecessarily given cause for further Islamophobia by forwarding this mosque issue which is providing a field day to their opponents to mobilize rallies, TV debates and Bus Ads etc.
Muslim for Reform
Nashik, India
34/D-61
Aug 25, 2010
02:52 PM
Mr. Dhume does not underestand the "Basics". The only way for the West to defeat Islam is to complete eradicate it from their countries. Then the radical Islam will be defeated by itself. Mosques are centres for Radicalism and storing weapons. Mosques are managed by senseless Mullahs.
Even the muslim intelligencia can be bought in the name of religion. Islam does not believe in "Live and Let Live" policity. It only believes, either "All or Nothing". Every muslim in the Western Countries should be put under the Radar, and the USA is doing the right thing in dealing with muslims.
Kel Shorey
Glasgow, United Kingdom
36/D-63
Aug 25, 2010
04:02 PM
Anwaar Sahab I am not sure whether u r a US citizen/GC resident but then please app jis thali main kha rahe hain usme ched na karain....Just coz of muslim brotherhood u oppose US moves..a country which is providing u bread n butter..u also condemn Israel which supported India by providing arms and ammunition ....You are Indian/US citizen first and then comes your religion..so please stop condemning followers of other religion and start concentrating on reforming followers of your faith
Indian
coimbature, India
38/D-67
Aug 25, 2010
06:25 PM
"The Muslims have unnecessarily given cause for further Islamophobia by forwarding this mosque issue which is providing a field day to their opponents to mobilize rallies, TV debates and Bus Ads etc "

MFR

Muslims will loose only .Zero gains.

What Muslims will gain from this Mosque or what loss they are suffering for want of this Mosque ?? The only thing happening is that Muslims are only getting more negative image in USA .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
41/D-74
Aug 25, 2010
08:19 PM
Ghai,

>> The only thing happening is that Muslims are only getting more negative image in USA .

Your analysis is wrong. Chances are that the Islamic Center will be built in a different location in Manhattan, but the fact that this heated dialogue and expressions of intense hate as well as strong support took place will have a beneficial effect in the long run. It will be cathartic.

Opposition to building mosques and expressions of anti-Muslim rhetoric were endemic since 9/11 in small towns in states like Tennessee, Florida, Wisconsin and California. However when the issue becomes the subject of a national debate and begins to be seen in its international dimension, big guns who are nationally prominent enter the fray. People like Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin and Rupert Murdoch (of Fox TV) are lampooned on national television and in satirical columns in national newspapers.

Such issues look different when national search lights are shone on them compared to when they are the bugbears of small town petty minds. America has gone through similar episodes against Roman Catholics, Jews and the Japanese in the past. It has come out better after such emotional upheavals.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
42/D-75
Aug 25, 2010
08:24 PM
>> Can a hindu build a temple or a christian a church in Mecca.

Americans must go by American laws. Saudis must change their archaic and regressive laws.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
43/D-76
Aug 25, 2010
08:31 PM
Indian,

>> Just coz of muslim brotherhood u oppose US moves.

I want the US to live by its American standards, and not become like a Muslim country.

>> ..u also condemn Israel which supported India.

I criticize the US and India when I disagree with their policies. So why should I not criticize Israel when I disagree with its policies?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
44/D-78
Aug 25, 2010
09:16 PM
You may debate on and on- but this is an election year issue. It will disappear from the media space as soon as the next issue foreshadows it.
Time magazine has already issued its cover story (written interestingly by an American Indian - appears to be Bengali-Bobby Ghosh ) about America's Islamophobia.
The problem here is that the commentators who are opposing the mosque for political reasons are also hate mongers- if the right wing extremists were given a free rein, USA would have been left with no communities other than the white Christians. I wish Star News in India telecast the gems of wisdom from some of the leading Fox News commentators. All of India including the right and left wingers would have kicked Murdoch out for his hate monging machinery.

I do not ignore the vile scheme of political Islam that tries to justify terror as a means to achieve political goals citing religious references. Nor do I sympahize with those Muslims who use a convoluted political logic to rationalize religion-inspired violence committed by the extremist elements. The insensitiveness of some Muslims to appreciate the 9/11 conext is equally disappointing.

But to oppose Osama Bin Laden is not the same as endorsement of Limbaugh and Gingrich - because at the end of the day they all still preach the same ideology of divisiveness - who's a lesser evil is not a question here.
DC
NEW YORK, United States
45/D-81
Aug 25, 2010
10:02 PM
--"Can a hindu build a temple or a christian a church in Mecca. "

Here is a simpler question: Is New York in Saudi Arabia ??
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
47/D-7
Aug 26, 2010
02:21 AM
"Americans must go by American laws. Saudis must change their archaic and regressive laws".

Ya Americans should be liberal and Saudis and their Wahabi Islam has the right to kill, persecute and offend other religions. And as I said if muslims want to fight for their fundamental right then either proclaim that the islam in other parts of world has nothing to do with the wahabi Saudi Islam or fight to change it. The crocodile tears for multi-religious society that muslims minority world over shed will have no effect until they are serious about developing such a society in Muslim majority countries

"Here is a simpler question: Is New York in Saudi Arabia ??"

Liberals and their double standards. Wow then why propogate a Saudi System in New York. Take your Saudi system and put it in Saudi Arabia. Islam is a religion that is identified with the Arab Nations. Each Muslim prays by looking towards Saudi Arabia. So it is natural that every issue of Muslims will be connected with the Wahabi Islam of Saudi Arabia.

Ask any muslim that whether they can denounce Saudi Arabia and stand up to fight against the repression of Minorities in Muslims Majority countries. They will start giving excuses.

Time for excuses is over.
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
48/D-9
Aug 26, 2010
03:28 AM
Drolia,

>>>> "Americans must go by American laws. Saudis must change their archaic and regressive laws".
>> Ya Americans should be liberal and Saudis and their Wahabi Islam has the right to kill, persecute and offend other religions.

No, no! Americans should become just like Wahabis and kill, persecute and offend other religions, if they are not doing so already!!!

"Americans must go by American laws. Saudis must change their archaic and regressive laws" was my response to your point, but you were not looking for a response. You just wanted to continue a hostile thread, just like a Drolia who used to post here some years ago!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
49/D-24
Aug 26, 2010
06:50 AM
"They would have liked him to say that the United States policies had nothing to do with 9/11, but that would be an obvious lie. And yet people like you can't see it."

The behaviour of Gujarat muslims had nothing to do with the post Godhra riot but that would be an obvious lie. And yet people like you cannot see it.
Ganesan
Nj, USA
50/D-26
Aug 26, 2010
07:06 AM
Ganesan,

>> The behaviour of Gujarat muslims had nothing to do with the post Godhra riot but that would be an obvious lie.

If you are comparing post-Godhra rioters to Al Qaeda, I have no objection.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
51/D-37
Aug 26, 2010
08:14 AM
Anwaar,

Your response that Saudis should change their laws is not a response. Its a FART, that you can do anytime you want to show your liberalism in the western world.

Lets see organization within muslim communities that come out and demand Saudi Arabia to repeal those brutal laws. Your individual FART does not mean anything. And the question of wahabi islam and it's linkages with muslims around the world will be made until muslims around the world come out clearly against these brutal laws in muslim majority regions.

Further do you think this $100 million mosque right at Ground Zero has no symbolism attached to it. You must be kidding to think that this Rauf guy would even think of building a $100 million mosque near Ground Zero if not for the tragic incident of 9/11.

Rauf and other muslims are interested in this mosque because of the symbolism of 9/11 and his attempt to build the mosque close to ground zero has everything to do with the symbolism around 9/11 and it is in very bad taste. Simple.

For muslims to insist on building a mosque near ground zero is nothing but preposterous posturing and close to appeasing muslim triumphalism. Muslims liberal (if there is anything like that should oppose such triumphalism).
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
52/D-38
Aug 26, 2010
08:16 AM
@Anwaar

This is what Ganesan wanted to say. It is simply extending your chokeful logic on 9/11 being portrayed as a "COUNTER-ATTACK by Islam". If we boorow this logic, the Muslims of Gujarat had it coming, deservedly so, after they burned a train coach.

And don't dish out the few reports that refute the facts on Godhra carnage, as they were specifically written to plunder your vote.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
53/D-40
Aug 26, 2010
08:46 AM
At the heart of American opposition to the proposed mosque is the belief that Americans are the victims of a terror and terrorism that is one-sided. In other words, they believe Muslims are always the perpetrators and Americans and other Westerners the victims.

In reality, American terrorism against the Muslim world both precedes and upscales Muslim terror. USA has offered lethal weapons like cluster and white phosphorous bombs with the full knowledge that those weapons are being used against civilians. In the 1982 attack on Lebanon alone, more than 17,000 Lebanese and Palestinians, mostly civilians, were killed mostly with American weaponry. The annihilation by America of civilians in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam and Dresden amount to terrorism and nothing less.

America must not condemn Islamic terror without acknowledging and condemning her own.
david albuquerque
Brisbane, Australia
54/D-42
Aug 26, 2010
10:08 AM
narendra--"Then I would be called a Sanghi"

Why does that frighten a retard like you ? Accept your fundamentalism. Its the first step. Repentance comes later.

David--"America must not condemn Islamic terror without acknowledging and condemning her own."

America need not acknowledge anything as long as good, well-bred, house slaves (Sangh Brotherhood) makes adequate excuses for them. BTW its good to see you here ! Welcome back to the cave.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
55/D-45
Aug 26, 2010
10:20 AM
Drolia,

>> Your response that Saudis should change their laws is not a response.

It is a clear response except for the dense. I can respond only for myself.

>> the question of wahabi islam and it's linkages with muslims around the world.

The opposition to Wahabi Islam is much more widespread than you might know, but you can't wish it away anymore than you can wish away the Sangh Parivar.

>> mosque right at Ground Zero has no symbolism attached to it.

It has. The symbolism is of what Rauf has stood for all his life, namely inter-faith dialogue and peace.

>> symbolism of 9/11.

Yes, hallowed ground is where a mosque should be. But that must be beyond you.

>> For muslims to insist on building a mosque near ground zero is nothing but preposterous posturing.

For Muslims to let opponents win would be like conceding that Islam is responsible for 9/11. Many Muslims are in favor of moving the mosque to another site as a gesture of good will. Even if they win, this fight was a good fight. It brought some dark latent forces to the fore, and also gave an opportunity for clear articulation of the religious rights of all Americans. But I am sure that is of no interest to you!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
56/D-48
Aug 26, 2010
10:29 AM
Irreverent,

>> This is what Ganesan wanted to say.

I know what he wanted to say, and my response addresses his point directly.

>> don't.... refute the facts on Godhra carnage.

All we have to do is to silence the refuters, and the problem is solved! Right?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
57/D-52
Aug 26, 2010
11:06 AM
"It is a clear response except for the dense. I can respond only for myself."

Anwaar. You know that there is a saying in the Arab world and somewhat true in India also. The saying goes that in the Arab world when a person just thinks that he has done a work he considers it done.

I think you come in the same category. Just saying that Wahabi Islam would stay or that we cannot wish it away does not take away its effect on communities around the world and your comparison with Sangh Parivar is disingenuous. These issues are different and not related. Please desist from making these comparisons

As far as your point that I can respond only for myself then please keep it to yourself and dont get involved in the matter of mosque, religion, politics or responding to articles in Outlook.

Escapism or excuse is no alternative to action or policy.

You are either a simple escapist or an apologist. Anyways in the last decade muslims around the world have seen the spread of islamophobia and hatred towards muslims. Symbols attached to islam have been attacked continously be it the veil or minaret or shariah laws. It is a result of spreading hatred against muslims and everybody have a responsibility towards increasing harmony including muslims.

Escapism is no answer and it is action that is required and liberal muslims need to come forward and encourage muslim majority countries to increase tolerance.
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
58/D-54
Aug 26, 2010
11:32 AM
Droila,

>> a person just thinks that he has done a work he considers it done.

This is becoming idiotic. Do you want me to drop everything, go to Saudi Arabia and fight the governmnet there for changes in their laws regarding religious freedom for the minorities. I have written untold number of posts on the subject here and in several Muslim publications. That is all that a blogger does. What have you done to fight the Bajrangis and Abhinav Bharatis in India?

>> Just saying that Wahabi Islam would stay or that we cannot wish it away does not take away its effect on communities around the world.

Again you want others to take direct and immediate action to remove the Wahabis! Which world do you live in?

>> As far as your point that I can respond only for myself then please keep it to yourself and dont get involved in the matter of mosque, religion, politics or responding to articles in Outlook.

And you of course are going to take your opposition to New York and call Imam Rauf out for a duel! You remain as removed from reality as you were four years ago. As I remember it you had announced that your departure was going to be permanent.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
62/D-60
Aug 26, 2010
12:34 PM
Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf sahib why Mosque only ? Why not to rebuild Towers ?

Why even now you continue with this medieval practice of Building Mosques after demolishing structres of others ? Muslims World over would have earned praise,gratitude and appreciations if they have come forward to build Towers intead of building the Masid and this gesture would have given a serious set back to the Jihadi Terrorists .

This insistence with Mosque building raises doubts that there is absolutely no change from the Medieval age thinking rather a ruse to build a mosque unde the cloack of Bhaichara.

Otherwise too utering of Imam are anti America .
ram prasn haryanvi
Ambala Cantt, India
63/D-62
Aug 26, 2010
12:50 PM
Crappa Maran,

What is the RSS?
The RSS is a fundamentalist organization which wants to wipe out the tricoclor and replace it with only one, Saffron, I don't want this to happen.

I don't want all non Hindus to be deported to other countries, I don't know which post reflected this belief.

Answer this question,
What makes you a Saffron fundamentalist?
If your answer is,
Anyone with a Hindu sounding name who doesn't want Jihadis in his backyard as much as he doesn't like people of the kind who killed the father of this nation.

Then, indeed, I am a Sanghi, I'll admit it.


For the record, I don't know why the Yanks are making such a huge noise about this mosque, their Council for religious freedom, labelled us as a fundamentalist nation, second only to Iraq.
If it's not illegal to buildit, and if they really are a nation of laws as they claim to be, then there should be no problem.
Narendra
Hyderabad, India
64/D-69
Aug 26, 2010
01:59 PM
>>This is becoming idiotic. Do you want me to drop everything, go to Saudi Arabia and fight the governmnet there for changes in their laws regarding religious freedom for the minorities. I have written untold number of posts on the subject here and in several Muslim publications. That is all that a blogger does. What have you done to fight the Bajrangis and Abhinav Bharatis in India?>>

Anwaar,

You have a bad habit of pointing fingers. Are we discussing Hindu Fundamentalism??. No. So desist from bringing that topic. When we have to discuss Babri Masjid or Gujarat Riots we can discuss that without bringing wahabi Islam in the dicussion. Atleast in arguments and actions I dont hide behind fake liberalism or mild fundamentalism.

Wahabi Islam has no relation with hindutva or fundamentalists within hinduism. So please dont make that comparision. It is a dishonest argument and shows your unwillingness in discussing the issue by hiding behind hindu fundamentalism. Pointing fingers at hindu fundamentalism is not going to make the impact of wahabi islam less, it will make it more.

Regarding my community efforts over the years. You dont know me personally, so I would not expand on those issues. But I can very proudly proclaim that any hindu majority region does not become a hot bed of violence, terror, oppression and inequality. There are very few muslim majority regions in the world that have such attributes. Most muslim majority countries have illiberal laws, persecution and oppression and you cannot hide away from these facts.

Further about the priorities of muslims in general and the motivations are just perverse. The only issue that joins muslims and motivates them is religion. Anything outside the purview of religion, you wont find any significant contribution of muslims in the modern world.

It is amazing, muslims worldover have $100 million to build a mosque right at Ground Zero, but they dont have money to build a memorial in the memory of those who died or help New Yorkers build a better memorial and give a resounding slap to Wahabi Islam. Instead Mosque(symbol of religion) is seen as the only path to emancipation for muslims and as a catharthis for muslims. Very very sad indeed. Religion motivates muslims in the manner that nothing else does.

As far as my participation in Outlook is concerned, I dont remember having any duels with you earlier, but I used to actively participate few years ago and then went away. If we had duels earlier then you know what I believe in and we will continue to disagree. I firmly believe that muslims need to get emancipation away from religion, mosque, quran or shariah.
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
65/D-70
Aug 26, 2010
02:05 PM
mister drolia

there is no point in makeing appeals to wahabies, or
pakistani,s to change. in a report a american journalist
visited a mid pakistani town and talked to the students.

80 percent supported segregation of sexes,death for apostates, and amputations for stealing.

65 percent chinese and 55 percent of japanese have a negative opinion of islam and muslims.according to pew opinion poll.americans and europeans have similar opinons.

this is the situation on the ground.

constant criticism of sanghis, zionists and neo cons is 'makeing them them more anti muslim.

80 percent of muslims are anti usa, anti west, anti sanghi,
anti zionist. are amerikans,europeans ,any one at all bothered. no one is loseing sleep over this issue.

everyone knows this,so what is the reason for constant harangues against usa, west etc.they dont give a damn.

muslims should help pakistani,s in their dire needs. they
are dieing of thirst,hunger and disease. american muslims
want to build a mega mosque, culture centre and leisure
activities for the allready well off muslims.instead it
is the evil west who are expected to help.

strange-velly velly strange.
siemens
dallas, United States
66/D-74
Aug 26, 2010
03:15 PM
Mr Anwaar,

Muslims worldover have $100 million to build the mosque. How much money have you send for flood relief in Pakistan or how much money muslims worldover have collected for humanitarian effort.

But certainly for jihadi collection, the coffers are full and their is never any problem in funding to spread madrassa, jihad and obcurantist social value. Change your priorities and focus.

I was very impressed with MNIK (My Name is Khan). The protagonist in that movie under suspicion, oppression and hatred went out on a humanitarian mission, helped other and in the process lifted entire humanity and brought repute to the religion of islam. Unfortunately you dont see any such example in the muslim world anywhere, not even in Turkey
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
67/D-83
Aug 26, 2010
07:26 PM
"And the ass-backwards logic of revenge killing a million Iraqis and Afghans and then claiming 'respect' for lives is beyond the pale."

Americans have a brutal history when it comes to waging war, casually killing mass numbers of people. That's beyond question. And yes, they are still doing it to some extent. But Moslems and Islam have a long, genocidal history, and Indians should know that better than anyone. There are figures of 80 million dead given for the loss of life India suffered under Islamic invasion and rule. A past forum participant, Raj Bodepudi, has given details of the Islamic genocide in India, one of the most shocking and sickening incidents being the massacre at Nalanda University in 1197, where between 10,000-20,000 Buddhist monks and nuns were put to the sword in one night.
Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs and Jains, though far from being perfect, (if perfection is even attainable) have a richer, nobler and less belligerent, aggressive tradition of inter faith relations. And of keeping to themselves and not bothering other people.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
68/D-84
Aug 26, 2010
07:26 PM
@ANWAAR:
"The RSS is a fundamentalist organization which wants to wipe out the tricoclor and replace it with only one, Saffron, I don't want this to happen. "

Your pathetic attempt at sounding secular is too evident. If you do not have a background of the services and activities that RSs is engaged in, then better keep your garbage trap shut. Your earlier posts talked about Muslim reforms. Since, it doesn't cut ice with anyone on this planet, you are trying to make them happy. Even that would not succeed, as they would still manage to discover new ways of feeling disgruntled.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
69/D-88
Aug 26, 2010
07:28 PM
Sorry. The earlier post was meant for NARENDRA. I am so used to the craps coming from Anwaar, that this name is all that strikes my mind when i am amused.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
70/D-90
Aug 26, 2010
07:38 PM
"in a report a american journalist
visited a mid pakistani town and talked to the students.

80 percent supported segregation of sexes,death for apostates, and amputations for stealing."

But I thought, judging from all the chivalrous knights rushing to the defense of the poor, gentle Moslems, that Moslems were a noble people greatly misunderstood, and valiantly fighting off entities that want to impose brutal conditions on them.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
71/D-102
Aug 26, 2010
09:46 PM
The thinly veiled attempts by RSS pracharaks on the forum (varun just come out of the closet) is not just hypocritical but sycophantic. As much as the Brotherhood would love to be American and pretend Americans love us the nasty truth is most Americans think Allah is a monkey-god !! And yet this doesnt stop the Bajrangis from rushing to the defense of right-wing Americans in a burst of chivalry ! How shameless and utterly contemptuous.

--"If you do not have a background of the services and activities that RSs"

If you read up on the services and history of the Lashkar, you wouldnt have to dig too deep about the RSS. Same shit, different name.

--"where between 10,000-20,000 Buddhist monks and nuns were put to the sword in one night. "

And this of course conveniently obscures the fact that Hindu Kings were equally brutal to one and another. My references were to the last century and i assumed its the modern era. But i keep forgetting you guys live in previous millenium. Its time to crawl out of the cave.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
72/D-105
Aug 26, 2010
10:17 PM
"If you read up on the services and history of the Lashkar, you wouldnt have to dig too deep about the RSS. Same shit, different name."

Look at the intellectual dishonesty of Secular liberals or should I say nasty seculars. Comparison between Lashkar and RSS. Wow. Mr CATA XXX can you give me the list of terrorists that RSS has produced in the period of its existence.

Intellectually dishonest arguments is the hallmark of nutcase liberals worldover and CATA XXX does exactly that


"And this of course conveniently obscures the fact that Hindu Kings were equally brutal to one and another."

Mr CATA XXX can you give references please.

Everybody knows about the great deeds of Muslim invaders. How is it that we dont know anything about Hindu Invaders miaming killing and converting people into hinduism. I guess history has not been taught properly in India. We should give it to nutjob CATA XXX so that he can teach history to us ignorant people
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
73/D-108
Aug 26, 2010
10:49 PM
"Look at the intellectual dishonesty of Secular liberals or should I say nasty seculars. Comparison between Lashkar and RSS. Wow."

Well said, Abhishek. Apart from the absence of a doctrine and behaviour of relentless mass killing of non-believers, the RSS also does not wish to impose archaic, ancient laws on India, let alone impose them outside of India. To repeat what I've said before in this message board, one of the characteristics of fundamentalist groups is that they are openly and proudly fundamentalist, and they mince no words about what their specific goals are with respect to laws, religion, politics and societal behaviour.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
74/D-109
Aug 26, 2010
10:51 PM
varun

in a quest to learn a bit about india i have read a few books recently.

m.j.akbar-nehru and the makeing of india

ramachandra guha- india after gandhi

jinnah- rafiq zakaria.

meghnad desai- rediscovering india

edward luce- the strange rise of modern india

nehru- discovery of india.

gurcharan das- india unbound

nandan nilekani-imagineing india.

some of the books by zakaria, m.j.akbar. guha ,desai ,luce are surpriseingly critical of congress and the dynasty.

i have read stephen cohen-the idea of pakistan, and akbar,s
shade of swords.cohens book was written in 2004, and is
extremely pessimistic about pakistan. he calls it a rogue state, which despite its problems carries on,helped by
its many western and islamic supporters. it os on permanent life support.

i am not going to get involved in the daily feuds which
have numeros perticipants. the important subject is india,s future path. of this i am afraid its like running on a tread mill. a lot of the money earned
by india inc is spent on themselves in buying extremely
expensive real estate, private jets. the balance which is
given away in taxes is used to keep the poor barely alive,
just able to exist and vote for the powers that be.

there is no need to say more. the sensible people know the facts.its much too late for the others to learn them.

this is the chorus of jehadis, maoists, leftists and cynical
politicians and journalist. their lofty ideas are similar
to those of che guevara, castro, other extreme leftists.
results are similar.

why this passion for babru masjid, and now cordoba. these
do not benefit any one except a few . what benefits will they bring to the hungry,sick masses in many muslim countries.is it too difficult to realise that for good or
bad reasons a significant number of americans are anti islam. can the islamic voices really force people to like and respect them.

the same people confess their inability to influence fellow
muslims-it is dangerous and futile.

it may not be dangerous to fight the neocons in usa, and
sanghis, zionists in the nonmuslim world, but it is erqually
futile. in fact the reason for this tiresome harangue must be to keep engaged in a futile debate. it is a harmless though boreing activity

blogging is safe and harmless. it provides an outlet for failures, fiascoes and takes away the blame from oneself and puts it squarely on ones adverseries. the latter are just not bothered. they may feel angry for a short time, but then its all forgotten.

it would be silly to ask many islamic bloggers to take up
social causes in muslim countries- they will not. however they are ever ready to pounce even a tiny cause of muslims being treated unfairly and they will come running.
siemens
dallas, United States
75/D-111
Aug 26, 2010
11:06 PM
--"How is it that we dont know anything about Hindu Invaders "

Because your closed mind refuses to believe that Hindus are anything other than saints. What a dimwit. Talk about intellectual dishonesty !!

--"the RSS also does not wish to impose archaic, ancient laws on India,"

Besides the RSS who else believes this ??

--"one of the characteristics of fundamentalist groups is that they are openly and proudly fundamentalist,"

The fact that the RSS hides it doesnt make it any less fundamentalist. Added to their fundamentalism they are also slimeballs who slither around with their toxic garbage.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
76/D-112
Aug 26, 2010
11:11 PM
drolia--"I guess history has not been taught properly in India."

Here we go !! Take a leaf out of Ashok Singals and Togadias manifesto. If history doesnt support our theories lets revise it till it does. Intellectual dishonesty is the hallmark of anti-National RSS snakes, who pretend to speak for all Indians. Besides putting a bullet in Gandhi, what is the contribution of the RSS to Indian history, or for that matter Indian Independance !!
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
77/D-6
Aug 27, 2010
12:31 AM
Droila,

>> Wahabi Islam has no relation with hindutva or fundamentalists within hinduism.

Wahabi Islam has no relation to either Imam Rauf or to the Islamic Center, yet you brought it in. It must be because of your Sanghi mentality.

>> hindu majority region does not become a hot bed of violence, terror, oppression and inequality.

Is that because of your community efforts? If so, where were you during the Gujarat massacre?

>> The only issue that joins muslims and motivates them is religion.

True only for Jehadi Muslims and Sanghi Hindus like you!

>> Mosque(symbol of religion) is seen as the only path to emancipation for muslims.

Ever heard of Ram Mandir or Somnath? Park51 is supposed to be a nine floor Islamic Center with only two floors for prayers. The rest of the building would be for a 500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare area, bookstore, culinary school, art studio, food court and September 11th memorial.

>> If we had duels earlier then you know what I believe in.

You believe in spewing hate and enlarging discords. Talking with you is just a waste of time.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
78/D-7
Aug 27, 2010
12:35 AM
Irreverent,

>> @ANWAAR: "The RSS is a fundamentalist organization which wants to wipe out the tricoclor and replace it with only one, Saffron, I don't want this to happen."

I never said that, but whoever did say it seems to be sensible.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
79/D-9
Aug 27, 2010
12:55 AM
"--"one of the characteristics of fundamentalist groups is that they are openly and proudly fundamentalist,"

The fact that the RSS hides it doesnt make it any less fundamentalist. Added to their fundamentalism they are also slimeballs who slither around with their toxic garbage.
Cata Maran"

Fundamentalist groups don't, or probably even can't, hide their 'fundamentalism'. After all, Christian and Moslem fundamentalists do not say things like "We are upset with pseudo-secularism and double standards". They openly and proudly state that their goal is a rigid, authoritarian theological state run on the Bible or Koran. "Toxic" remarks can be made by anybody; life shouldn't revolve around appeasing Islamists or not offending their sensibilities. That is a weak mentality.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
80/D-12
Aug 27, 2010
01:43 AM
--"life shouldn't revolve around appeasing Islamists or not offending their sensibilities. That is a weak mentality."

Instead lets pander to the vile, fascist ideology of the Sangh Brotherhood and show the world our strong mentality !! Idiocy rules the day.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
81/D-14
Aug 27, 2010
02:06 AM
>> Idiocy rules the day

Unfortunately, with Congress currently in power, idiocy, along with corruption, does rule the day.
Whats InAName
San Francisco, United States
82/D-23
Aug 27, 2010
04:49 AM
"My references were to the last century and i assumed its the modern era."

That does not apply to your community. A few decades ago, Aram money was used to developa TIME MACHINE. This time machine can transport and entire country to the 5th Century BC. They named it ISLAM.

If your ilks could reconcile to the fact that this is a modern era and your dinasaur-age customs, beliefs, traditions and thought-process were irritant to everyone else, world would be a better place. When I read comments from morons like you, I feel the US did have a great deal of foresight in carpet-bombing your fellow-thinkers. Unfortunately, US did not realize that you guys reproduce at the speed of light.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
83/D-25
Aug 27, 2010
06:50 AM
>> I feel the US did have a great deal of foresight in carpet-bombing your fellow-thinkers. Unfortunately, US did not realize that you guys reproduce at the speed of light.

What a hateful comment!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
84/D-30
Aug 27, 2010
08:19 AM
"--"life shouldn't revolve around appeasing Islamists or not offending their sensibilities. That is a weak mentality."

Instead lets pander to the vile, fascist ideology of the Sangh Brotherhood and show the world our strong mentality !! Idiocy rules the day.
Cata Maran"

Why should we pander to anyone? And what does pandering to this "Sangh Brotherhood" involve? Criticising and condemning Islamism and Islamic terrorism? That should simply be common sense, not a trade-off or condition. For anyone.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
85/D-35
Aug 27, 2010
09:42 AM
--"That does not apply to your community."

Since you are an imbecile let me remind you that my community is the same as yours and everything you say about my community holds true.

--"Criticising and condemning Islamism and Islamic terrorism? That should simply be common sense"

Does your common sense apply to Hinduism and Hindu Terrorism ? Didnt think so. Your common sense is terribly limited. Only a fundamentalist can think in these terms.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
86/D-38
Aug 27, 2010
09:49 AM
" intense hate as well as strong support took place will have a beneficial effect in the long run. It will be cathartic."Fruki

Daniel Pearl's father opposes mosque near 9/11 site

'If I were Mayor Bloomberg, I would reassert the right to build the mosque, but I would expend the same energy trying to convince them to put it somewhere else," Judea Pearl told the Jewish Telegraph Agency.

"Public reaction tells us that it is not the right time, and that it will create further animosity and division in this country," he said. "
At the time, I truly believed Danny's murder would be a turning point in the reaction of the civilized world toward terrorism," said Judea, who engages in public conversations with Akbar
The established Muslim leadership in the United States, Pearl said, 'has had nine years to build up trust by pro-actively resisting anti-American ideologies of victimhood, anger and entitlement.'

"Reactions to the mosque project indicate that they were not too successful in this endeavour," he said. ''

http://news.rediff.c...e-near-9-11-site.htm
a k ghai
mumbai, India
87/D-39
Aug 27, 2010
10:00 AM
Since Followers of all the Religions died on 9/11 hence the Memorial at the Ground Zero should be such where all can pray individually preferably together.

Only Mosque will be a cruel insult specially to Islam .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
88/D-43
Aug 27, 2010
10:22 AM
mr ghai

are more mosques the answer to problems faceing moslems
in usa .i dont think so.

pakistan has broken records in the number of mosques built in recent times.this has not helped- in fact they seem to be targets for terror bombings, and platforms for promoteing
extreme views.

is pakistan more peaceful than china its all weather friend,
or better off in any way at all.

imagine spending 100 million usd for a mosque in the most
expensive area in new york. this mosque will have more visitors from the cia, fbi, and anti islamists than from
local muslims. supporters of the cordoba project have got
it wrong-does that surprise anyone.

a general of babar built a mosque in a town which has
associations with the hindu god ram. some say it was
after destroying a temple. no one knows for sure. however
he did not do a favour to his fellow muslims hundreds of years down the line.
siemens
dallas, United States
89/D-46
Aug 27, 2010
10:29 AM
"What a hateful comment!" - Anwaar

Hate begets hate.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
90/D-47
Aug 27, 2010
10:29 AM
I guess the issue at hand has deep rooted history...also i guess most ppl have fragile egos that are hurt when their cultural backgrounds are targeted...fairly or unfairly..cherry picking facts of history to place their points...but i guess whether we like it or not in the real world people are judged by the average of culture they represent...when you think of America, you automatically think and expect it to be a liberal state with strong values of freedom...but how do you expect someone to be liberal towards you when your history is full of the contrary...you would ideally expect your life to be disconnected with the choices made by your ancestors...but it hardly is so...America is a far more liberal and evolved place than you would care to imagine...but its a country and not an inanimate land , ppl make the country...dont expect them to be saints and support you over their personal interests especially when you prefer to sympathise with some remote middle eastern country that you share nothing with except religion...we have to accept the facts ad work towards improvement...spirituality is the key...lose the expectations of how and what others should do...some introspection would help...cherry picking of certain facts to make blatantly wrong comparisons would only have adverse effects.
Preeti G
Los Angeles, United States
91/D-49
Aug 27, 2010
10:46 AM
Siemens ji

This Mosque is the wrong monument at the wrong place and at the wrong time.

If the idea was to bring the followers of various faiths together then unfortunately this Project is doing the reverse.This Project is needlessly bringing bad name to Muslims and was avoidable.

And to say that the mosque will send the message to the Muslims World over that USA is not anti Muslims is ridiculous.Afganis, Iraqis, Iranians, Philistines,Pakistanis,Indian Muslims,Nigerians, Libyans etc. none will buy it .

50 or 100 years down the line perhaps this idea may have worked but not now.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
92/D-50
Aug 27, 2010
10:54 AM
--"when you think of America, you automatically think and expect it to be a liberal state with strong values of freedom"

And when it turns out that Americans are responsible for an endless tyranny of wars for the last 60 years, you begin to seriously question those automatic assumptions.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
93/D-51
Aug 27, 2010
11:30 AM
Ghai,

>> 'If I were Mayor Bloomberg, I would reassert the right to build the mosque, but I would expend the same energy trying to convince them to put it somewhere else," Judea Pearl told the Jewish Telegraph Agency.'

I can undestand Mr.Pearl's feelings. By the way Imam Rauf, the man behind the Islamic Center project, attended Daniel Pearl's memorial service and gave a speech on inter-faith harmony. Mayor Bloomberg was on television about an hour ago and was wildly applauded for standing firm on principle.

Where the center will eventually be located is less important than the fact that this controversy has brought attention to the moderate Muslim community and has re-opened the debate on the religious rights of all Americans.

It has also provided an opportunity for much increased television exposure of two groups:

(1) CAIR. Six top officers of CAIR have been frequent guests over the past week on several national television programs and have been effective spokesmen on the issue.

(2) Some so far less known groups representing bereaved relatives of those killed on 9/11 are now coming to the fore supporting the center project. Their members have been making frequent appearances on television talk shows. One such group is "The September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows", representing about 200 bereaved families. They championed the construction of the mosque at Ground Zero, which they helped guide through to acceptance despite harsh criticism, the latest in a series of achievements that have earned them two Nobel Peace Prize nominations.

The process itself is interesting and healthy. The outcome is probably less important.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
94/D-52
Aug 27, 2010
11:41 AM
Irreverent,

>> Hate begets hate.

But the person you were arguing with is a Hindu. And yet you came out with an extremely bitter and hateful attack on Muslims and Islam!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
95/D-53
Aug 27, 2010
11:49 AM
Faruki

Only Mosque is the problem .And if Muslims insist for only mosque then there will be acute resistance .What is the problem to build an All Faith Memorial ? That will bring the desired results of harmony.

Seems you too are stuck with only mosque ? Hope you realise the implications of Mosque in lieu of Towers.

And why Mosque only ? What is the message to World at large ?
a k ghai
mumbai, India
96/D-56
Aug 27, 2010
12:03 PM
Ghai,

>> What is the problem to build an All Faith Memorial?

There already are churches and synagogues at Ground Zero.

>> Hope you realise the implications of Mosque in lieu of Towers.

The Islamic Center (called Park51) is two blocks away from the Towers. In the place where the towers once stood, a tall magnificent memorial building is being planned by the City and State of New York.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
97/D-58
Aug 27, 2010
12:24 PM
Fine Muslim centre is there.Church is there.Synagogues there.

So why now another Mosque ? If one more Memorial is required it should be all the more necessary that it should be all Faith one.

If Muslims and Imam still want Mosque only then be ready to face more and more opposition.I don't think Muslims and pro Mosque gentlemen can carry on the majority with them.

Wait another 50 yrs may be possible then.Otherwise we will have another Babri like situation . Is it worth ? What gain to Muslims ?
a k ghai
mumbai, India
98/D-61
Aug 27, 2010
12:40 PM
mr ghai

a akshshadam temple has been built in delhi. 3 hours are
required to see it. for most people its like visiting
disney world.

poor people sleep on pavements, homeless cattle wander the
streets of indian cities-there are no homes for battered
women,orphans or old people.

building temples has not helped india-

i suppose you get my point.

i hope the weather is good in mumbai.

do you think its better then the earlier name bombay.

enough for today.
siemens
dallas, United States
99/D-62
Aug 27, 2010
12:42 PM
Ghai,

>> So why now another Mosque?

The old building at Park51 Has been used by Muslims for prayers for several years. The plan is to tear it down and buld a nine storey building in its place. The top two storeys will be for prayers. The rest of the building would be used for a 500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare area, bookstore, culinary school, art studio, food court and September 11th memorial.

>> I don't think Muslims and pro Mosque gentlemen can carry on the majority with them.

It does not need any votes. The center has already been approved by the local board. Poperty rights are very strong in the US. As regards moving the mosque to another location is concerned, there are two opinions in the Muslim community itself. Things might be more clear after November elections. They are hot now because Republicans are trying to exploit the issue for political advantage.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
100/D-63
Aug 27, 2010
12:48 PM
anwaar,

Do you believe in complete quran or partial quran, leaving violent verses?
narendra
Indore, India
101/D-64
Aug 27, 2010
12:49 PM
'It does not need any votes. The center has already been approved by the local board. Poperty rights are very strong in the US "

Chalo

Yeh bhi kar lo .Do it
a k ghai
mumbai, India
102/D-65
Aug 27, 2010
12:58 PM
"building temples has not helped india"Siemen

I was in Atlanta in 2005.Afterwards in India I learnt that one of the biggest Sawami Naryan Temple in the World Akhshar Dham has beem built there.I never knew that that the Temple was being built.

This Masjid too perhaps could have been built had not so much noise been not made specially when one already exists as informed by Faruki.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
103/D-67
Aug 27, 2010
01:05 PM
Narendra,

This is not a religious website. Moreover I do not ask anyone for his personal religious beliefs nor talk about mine.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
104/D-79
Aug 27, 2010
05:28 PM
Good to see so many free people discussing US problems sitting in India :-)
Sau main se ninyave baimaan fir bhi mera Bharat Mahan..Jai ho.................
Indian
coimbature, India
105/D-89
Aug 27, 2010
07:40 PM
"Does your common sense apply to Hinduism and Hindu Terrorism"

No it does not. Neither Hinduism nor so called Hindu terrorism is a serious threat to India, let alone the world. Same thing with Buddhism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism and Spirit Quest. Islamic terror is a huge threat. Christian and Sikh terrorism are threats, but not comparable to Islamic.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
106/D-94
Aug 27, 2010
09:03 PM
--"Neither Hinduism nor so called Hindu terrorism is a serious threat to India, let alone the world."

To be expected from a member of the fascist RSS. Its no wonder that the BJP is the only party thats protesting the characterization of Hindu Terrorism as Saffron Terror.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
107/D-96
Aug 27, 2010
09:14 PM
"To be expected from a member of the fascist RSS."

I'm not member, and the RSS isn't fascist anyway. You are mindlessly applying something you've read about Nazi Germany in the 30's or 40's, and then saying to yourself "That sounds similar to what Schlangeberger of the Nazi party said". But it doesn't mean it is. The RSS was founded back in the 1920's. Ninety years is an awfully long time to go without forming a "Third Reich" type republic, let alone searching for "lebensraum' by embarking on a campaign of territorial conquest. The Nazi fascists took 6 years, after assuming office in 1933.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
108/D-108
Aug 27, 2010
10:58 PM
Mr Anwaar,

What did you do when hindus were masacarred in Kashmir and made to leave their home. Nothing. Hindus in Kashmir are safe.

Several human rights organization have taken Narendra Modi to task and ensured the safety of muslims in Gujrat. Your muslim majority region does not have any human rights organization worth its name that can bring back hindus to the valley.

That is the difference. Hindus have always welcomed diversity and will continue to do so, muslims I am sorry dont do that.

The ripe case is Pakistan. Pakistan after getting its muslim majority state went on to eradicate hindus either by converting, persecuting or killing them.

So your crocodile tears will have no effect. The hatred against muslims and islam is going to increase and reach a crecendo.

The fate of hindus in Independent India in a muslim majority region shows that Muslims in a majority do not show any respect to secularism, diversity or liberalism.

Now you can continue to talk to RSS or hindu fundamentalist but that is not going to change my opinion or the opinion of a large number of people in India and mind you most of them are not RSS people
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
109/D-109
Aug 27, 2010
10:58 PM
varun

an american pastor is calling for a burn a koran day,
on sept 11. muslim bloggers should not ignore this insult.

it seems every country now has a anniversary to morn their
dead-

usa 11th september
britain 5th july
india 26 th november
madrid-
bali
moscow

canada is lagging.

rss are rank amateurs.
siemens
dallas, United States
110/D-16
Aug 28, 2010
02:15 AM
Shekhar,

>> Neither Hinduism nor so called Hindu terrorism is a serious threat to India, let alone the world.

Hindu terrorism is a threat to Indian Muslims and Christians. Hinduism, like any other religion, is not a threat to anyone.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
111/D-21
Aug 28, 2010
02:27 AM
Siemens, well said. Canada had a near miss. As I have pointed out several times in this forum, people denounce Hindu/Indian nationalist groups like the RSS, not because they really in their heart-of-heart, soul-of-souls, believe they are the equivalent of the Islamic terror groups like the Lashkar and the Taliban etc, but because attacking the Hindu organisations serves several purposes: It allows one to show off one's secular credentials( "Mommy, Mommy, look at me, I'm secular, because I said something against the RSS); it's a very safe, easy method of obtaining a catharsis or relief, since there is no danger in criticising those groups; it prevents them from having to tackle the more serious and worldwide problem of Islamic terrorism and fundamentalism, by uttering a few lazy choice words against Hindu organisations.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
112/D-22
Aug 28, 2010
02:31 AM
Droila,

>> What did you do when hindus were masacarred in Kashmir.

What did you do when Muslims were massacred in Gujarat? Such dumb questions are not just futile. They are inflammatory. The sole thrust of your argument is, "Look how much better we are than you!" That is idiotic.

>> The hatred against muslims and islam is going to increase and reach a crecendo.

You repeatedly predicted imminent doom and gloom for Muslims five years ago. We are still here!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
113/D-24
Aug 28, 2010
02:37 AM
--"it prevents them from having to tackle the more serious and worldwide problem of Islamic terrorism and fundamentalism, by uttering a few lazy choice words against Hindu organisations."

And this from a guy who wanted to pulverize Muslims. Did you learn this from your benign, faceless 'hindu organization' as well ?? Your organization (the RSS) really knows how to mask its intentions. top pretending you are a modern day saint with the best of intentions for the world at large. What a hypocrite !!
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
114/D-30
Aug 28, 2010
06:49 AM
Mr Anwaar,

"You repeatedly predicted imminent doom and gloom for Muslims five years ago. We are still here!"


You are still here with more hatred against islam and more misunderstanding. Good luck with such hatred. What I predicted is coming true. We hindus dont have to explain our faith to the world. You have to.

I am again saying look inward, reform islam and you will be ok. Concentrate on hindu terrorism, fundamentalism or anything and you will increase hatred and islamophobia.

By the way you always avoid my question. Why have hindus been killed in Kashmir(A muslim majority region). Why. Have muslims been subjected to ethnic genocide as hindus have been subjected to in Pakistan and Kashmir.

Abhishek
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
115/D-34
Aug 28, 2010
07:06 AM
Drolia,

>> You are still here with more hatred against islam and more misunderstanding. Good luck with such hatred.

Hatred seems to be the only thing you can see because it is the only thing you know. You are making the same brainless arguments and spelling the same gloom and doom that you were known for five years ago. My last post in this dopey thread.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
116/D-39
Aug 28, 2010
08:50 AM
The Moslems have already caused enough mayhem in the last 60 years, with the formation of Pakistan, and with all the terrorist attacks throughout India, including Kashmir. In that context, I did indeed say that the Moslems who are raving against India in Kashmir and elsewhere, should be pulverised.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
117/D-44
Aug 28, 2010
11:14 AM
--"I did indeed say that the Moslems who are raving against India in Kashmir and elsewhere, should be pulverised."

And you have a problem with Islamic Terrorism ?!! With that attitude why are you so surprised if someone fries your ass ? The silent, amorphous bigots like you are the scariest.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
118/D-61
Aug 28, 2010
02:48 PM
"I feel the US did have a great deal of foresight in carpet-bombing your fellow-thinkers. Unfortunately, US did not realize that you guys reproduce at the speed of light."

Kasab couldn't have said it better. I feel the Irrelevant Indian's comment is enough for those of us who do not subscribe to the RSS ideology to rest our case. In that one sentence alone, he/she has unwittingly revealed what the RSS is all about, who the real hard core terrorists are in today's world and how twisted their minds are.

Those opposed to the Manhattan mosque, if they had any wisdom, should instead be alarmed at the presence of RSS fanatics in America. They wouldn't want the likes of Modi and Kodnani in their midst.
david albuquerque
Brisbane, Australia
119/D-64
Aug 28, 2010
03:34 PM
david a

write to gingrich and palin.

ask them not to worry about jehadi,s .invite more of them

they should arrest and deport the sanghis-

indira noyi, vikram pandit,vinod khola, joshi of hp,
the heir to warren buffet, and a host of these kinds-
scientists in nasa, -send them back to india, to replace the secularists like lallo prasad, paswan, chidambaram etc

india would flower out in 1 month.usa will be doomed in
return. soon they will reverse cource.
siemens
dallas, United States
120/D-91
Aug 28, 2010
07:38 PM
Yes, peaceful, progressive people and governments of the world unite, including China, North Korea,Saudi Arabia, Atlanticists, neo-Cons, British colonialists, past and present. The real, big, massive danger to the world is from, are you ready, Sanghis! They are about to impose a fascist, Nazi, theocratic( they will make Saudi, Khomeini and the Taliban look like little girl scouts) regime on all of you, unless you take drastic action now. They may speak of democracy, freedom and secularism, but don't be fooled. These guys are more clever than the Moslem and Christian fundamentalists, who at least admit their theocratic intentions. The goal, the singular obsession, is to convert by force everyone in the world, to Hinduism and inaugurate a new age of global Hindu theocracy, where everyone, and I mean everyone, must worship Ram on pain of death. Any slight deviation will result in execution on the spot. And how do we know all this? Because commentators on the Outlook forum like Catamaran and David Albuquerque say it. Since 1925, the real danger to the entire planet has been from Golwalkar and Hedgewar, and their ideological descendents, desiring to impose, at the point of a gun, the worship of Ram, and the end of all other religions and non-religions( like atheism and agnosticism). In every nook and cranny of the globe, not sparing Vanuatu in the South Pacific and Swaziland in Africa. Come on, progressive people and governments of the world, band together and end once and for all this theocratic, fascist, Nazi, genocidal menace to the entire planet. If you don't, the future will be one of enforced worship of the one, and false, God called Ram.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
121/D-115
Aug 28, 2010
10:01 PM
VS
Your saffron nickers are showing
kishoredasmunshi
Kolkatta, India
122/D-124
Aug 28, 2010
10:46 PM
Varun ... im glad you finally accept the true nature of Hindu Talibanism. Acceptance is the first step. The rest of the cure is easy.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
123/D-128
Aug 28, 2010
11:11 PM
"Your saffron nickers are showing" - Kishore

At least he has his nickers on. Your nakedness is disgusting.

"Acceptance is the first step. The rest of the cure is easy."

Yes. And, that is not a good news for the descendants of Raavan.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
124/D-4
Aug 29, 2010
12:10 AM
The Irrelevant Indian
--"I feel the US did have a great deal of foresight in carpet-bombing your fellow-thinkers. Unfortunately, US did not realize that you guys reproduce at the speed of light."

You and your fellow bajrangis would of course revel in any form of genocide. You can indulge in penis-envy and wonder at the reproductive ability of any community, but luckily the bajrangi libido is a scarce commodity. Your kind is endangered in modern India thankfully !
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
125/D-38
Aug 29, 2010
03:50 AM
Cata XXX

We will see who is endangered. Secular nut jobs like you or the spirit of India.

By the way I do commend you on your predilections on penis, libido and everything that kamdhenu has given you
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
126/D-39
Aug 29, 2010
03:51 AM
And Mr Anwaar. Truth hurts whether u see it as hatred or truth is ur choice. Continue down this road and u will see more hatred not less
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
127/D-70
Aug 29, 2010
11:41 AM
--"Secular nut jobs like you or the spirit of India. "

The spirit of India is secularism. Which is why anti-Nationalist parties like the RSS backed BJP got gobsmacked these last 10 years. You should move to Nepal.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
128/D-73
Aug 29, 2010
12:24 PM
"The spirit of India is secularism"

Ya but not as defined by nutjobs like you. We will not denigrate the spirit of India by your nutty perspective. Your hate does not show spirit of India anywhere.

India is too great a nation to be defined by your narrow secularism.
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
129/D-75
Aug 29, 2010
12:25 PM
Well Cata XXX I am happy that you not in India to malign its spirit. Nutty liberals like you have no place in a sacred place such as India. Keep your bile and nuttiness outside India
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
130/D-79
Aug 29, 2010
01:31 PM
--"Nutty liberals like you have no place in a sacred place such as India."

Apparently good, pure, wholesome bajrangi bigots are just what the doctor ordered. Who knew ?
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
131/D-88
Aug 29, 2010
02:52 PM
"Apparently good, pure, wholesome bajrangi bigots are just what the doctor ordered. Who knew ?"

Wells I dont have any beef for bajrangis. Personally dont like them, but nutty personalities such as you are very dangerous. We are seeing the effect in Kashmir. Liberal nuts and their politics has created the situation in Kashmir that we are facing.

Nutty liberals have completed killed the spirit of India and divided it in caste, religion, color and ethnicity. They have really really took this country way backward
Abhishek Drolia
Raipur, India
132/D-106
Aug 29, 2010
07:07 PM
"the RSS isn't fascist anyway."

Sure. What next, Varun? Hitler was a soft, kind-hearted human rights activist?
david albuquerque
Brisbane, Australia
133/D-112
Aug 29, 2010
08:03 PM
why anwaar and cata always on pakistani side?
narendra
Indore, India
134/D-119
Aug 29, 2010
09:36 PM
"why anwaar and cata always on pakistani side?"

sometimes, Anwaar does utter some logical, althouh impractical comments & suggestions. As for Cata, am not sure what ails him. but his parents must have practised birth control. as indian said, his problem can be traced to Raavana's sperms.
Brilliant Babloo
BablooLand, India