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william dalrymple in afghanistan 		COMMENTS
As the Great Game repeats itself, India must wake up to Karzai’s new moves


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Sep 13, 2010
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William Dalrymple’s views oscillate quite violently (Souter Takes the Call, Aug 30), based on where his ink happens to be drying. In the Guardian, he is decidedly pro-Pakistani, gloating unabashedly at the spectre of India’s ouster from Afghanistan at the hands of the isi-Pak army nexus. On the occasion of the Mumbai attacks, he was quick to point to homegrown extremists and dismiss Pakistani involvement even while the operation was raging and endorsed the Pakistani view that the Mumbai attacks were linked solely to Kashmir. The man has proved to be a mere wordsmith willing to bend whichever way the wind blows.

Shubhang, New Delhi

Dalrymple never gets fed up upholding the views/interests of those that are essentially representatives of the dark evil that we have seen in the last few decades. Be it India where his writings essentially lend air to the communalists or outside where he lends voice to the many Middle Eastern rabid set-ups. The man does not fit into the category of genuine analysts. One asks the question as to what sum Outlook sold itself to print the cheap musings of such a person.

C.M. Vishnunarayanan, Stanford, US

In Afghanistan, from the Brits down to the Russians, and now the Americans and Pakistanis have made a big goulash of their forceful occupation.

Karamchandani, Calcutta
Order by HAVE YOUR SAY
1/D-81
Aug 21, 2010
02:29 PM
Truly excellent..Dalrymple is the most insightful and competent writer covering contemporary and historical issues in the subcontinent today..His nuanced understanding of the complexity of this region is unparalleled.I am impatiently waiting for the release of the 1842 book!
yasser
dubai, uae
2/D-95
Aug 21, 2010
03:25 PM
One hopes we will not end up trying to learn what the Americans and the Russians and the British before them have had so painfully to unlearn.
ashok lal
mumbai, India
3/D-104
Aug 21, 2010
05:44 PM
The bottom line is India has every right and reason to be in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is not some distant, unfamiliar place to Indians; India has a 3000+ year association with the country.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
4/D-107
Aug 21, 2010
06:28 PM
The United States went to the war on terror, with certain preconceptions. I believe, the Obama administration now realizes, perhaps, that it takes two hands to clap. If at all, how can the Taliban control Afghanistan? The Taliban have to convince the majority of the young people, that Islam is in danger. This will make more people join their ranks, and ultimately the Taliban will be the largest armed group in Afghanistan. However, as soon as the draconian laws are established, the Taliban will have to justify them. The United States action against al Qaeda, gave the Taliban an excuse. I believe the people of Afghanistan have also realized, that some of them, have brought this state of affairs on their nation. Without a Jehad against the West, the Taliban will not sustain their identity, as a specific group in Afghanistan. This will lead to perhaps an understanding on power sharing in Afghanistan, among the many tribes. This is perhaps, how the Americans see the scenario.
If the Americans did kick children, and pull women by their hair, then these are shameless acts. Perhaps, the Taliban did not do this to their fellow countrymen.
Mr Jigdalik, is right, when he says that the neighbours of Afghanistan try to associate with the functioning of that nation. The reason why Afghanistan is in the straits she finds herself, is because other nations want to control Afghanistan, on account of their national interest. I personally do not see this happening, and the spirit of Afghanistan is so resilient, that this spirit will not be subdued by acts of attrition, whether civilian, or military.
Aditya Mookerjee
Belgaum, India
5/D-109
Aug 21, 2010
06:39 PM
I will look forward to Mr Dalrymple's book with great anticipation.
Aditya Mookerjee
Belgaum, India
6/D-119
Aug 21, 2010
08:36 PM
Afghanistan`s geographical situation is very favourable to Afghan people so one defeated them. When 10 year back Bush attacked on Afghanistan he did not read the history of Afghanistan otherwise he did not dare to attacked. India Always behaved fooly in international polities,Indian leaders have no common sense,they are crudious so they sacrificed their arm es and money in Afghanistan.Indian s are world famous about foolishness they never write history never read and never learn from history.
Ramesh Raghuvanshi
Pune, India
7/D-135
Aug 21, 2010
10:51 PM
Till the time evil ISI is not tamed by U.S, they can never win. Ironically they tend to ignore the reports.
manik112
New Delhi, India
8/D-6
Aug 22, 2010
01:27 AM
Very knowledgeable and convincing report. The picture is decidedly grim.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
9/D-31
Aug 22, 2010
07:18 AM
The most interesting comment is from Mr. Shekhar:
"Afghanistan is not some distant, unfamiliar place to Indians; India has a 3000+ year association with the country."
Dig little deeper and you will find that most of the time India was at receiving end. You should thank Pakistan that it is serving as shock absorber.
Parvez Mahmud
Los Angeles, United States
10/D-48
Aug 22, 2010
12:24 PM
Moral of story is ,any stranger coming to any house forcefully tries to rule,without understanding the need,makes a mess of his bossing around . In Afghanistan,first the Russians,the Americans---so on and so forth,have made a big goulash, out of their,forceful occupation.
karamchandani
kolkata, India
11/D-49
Aug 22, 2010
12:25 PM
Moral of story is ,any stranger coming to any house forcefully tries to rule,without understanding the need,makes a mess of his bossing around . In Afghanistan,first the Russians,the Americans---so on and so forth,have made a big goulash, out of their,forceful occupation.
karamchandani
kolkata, India
12/D-65
Aug 22, 2010
05:29 PM
All this talk about Afghanistan being the graveyard of superpowers is a lot of gas. Russians were finally routed there only after the war against them was joined and in fact led by the Americans. On their own, these so called fierce Afghan insurgents could not budge an inch under the Russian iron soles. The cold war rivalry end game was played out between the superpowers and Aghanistan was just but a stage for that.

Now too, the only problem there is that the economic downturn in the US and the West, the announcement of withdrawal deadline by the stupid Obama administration along with Pakistan's duplicity to shore up the insurgency while pretending to be fighting on US side in the war on terror has somewhat worsened the situation. If the US steels its resolve like in the time of the Bush administration and forces Pak to toe the line, all Taliban gains will be more than reversed.

The US need not procrastinate much on the Afpak issue; they would do well to remember that the Afghan war was always considered a just war in the international community as the logical response to the 9/11 intransigience.

If the US hand is unduly being forced by the local players and if it is required to jeopardize many soldiers' life to neutralize the threat, US would do well to contemplate the nuke option. It is only for such situations that nuclear deterrence is needed.
Muslim for Reform
Nashik, India
13/D-68
Aug 22, 2010
05:57 PM
India is going beyond the politics of receiving end and non-receiving end, in being engaged in Afghanistan. It's in India's and the world's interest, to have a democratic, pluralistic, secular ideology and regime in Afghanistan. And yes, India wants some degree of economic influence in the country as well. The reference to the thousands of years of connections is to show that Afghanistan is not something distantly foreign where India is concerned. The very names Afghanistan, Kabul and Kandahar are of Indian origin. India is generally liked and popular in Afghanistan, and its economic activity has or will benefit the people as a whole.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
14/D-71
Aug 22, 2010
06:50 PM
MFR's apprehensions that USA may be forced to Nuke requires in depth analysis .However the use of Nukes fears are not groundless. Reasons next.

Meanwhile let us examine what is in store for India and our preparedness to meet the Pakistani designs.

General Kayani holds the key to the future of the Sub Continent along with his Islamic Terror Hordes.

"General Kayani within four months of taking over as Chief breached the four-year old ceasefire along the LOC in Kashmir. Thereafter there has been an increase in border clashes, increased infiltration and whipping-up of turbulence in the Kashmir Valley through Pakistani-paid and patronized Kashmiri separatists.

While the Indian Army has always combated these threats competently and blunted Pakistan Army’s nefarious activities the danger lies with India’s political leaders who fritter away the gains made by the Indian Army and force them to fight with one hand tied politically because of political compulsions. This would not do any further.

In the next three years greater synchronization would be needed between the Defense Ministry and the Home Ministry to meet enhanced threats with an explosive politico-military mix.

Pakistan Army’s propensity to stoke armed conflicts when it does not make political headway also needs to be taken note of and India’s war-preparedness has to be placed on a war-footing."

http://www.southasia...ers40/paper3948.html

General Kayani’s Extension: Military Implications for India

General Kayani has not taken any pains to hide his animosity towards India when he publicly declared that Pakistan Army was and would continue to be “India-Centric” and that on no account he would regroup or retrain Pakistan Army for Western frontier operations'
a k ghai
mumbai, India
15/D-72
Aug 22, 2010
07:05 PM
USA,NATO and World at large can't stabilize PAKISTAN and Afghanistan till they pull out ISI and Pakistani Army from the clutches of the Talibans and Pakistani Terror Organisations like LeT ,Jaish,Jihad Council etc.

'India must awaken to the reality that Pakistan's army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani smells blood and thinks he can knock India out of the box in Afghanistan and he certainly isn't going to wait for the trust talks to come to fruition. The U.S. desperately needs Pakistan - evidenced by the mad cash the U.S. has dished out - and Kayani knows this and is going to make sure Pakistan has a foothold in Kabul when the dust settles. It's a good wager the wise General isn't going to let a minor issue impede progress, including the fact that Pakistan's entire armed forces have been implicated in a terror plot.

If India continues down too diplomatic a road they are going to lose out in Kabul as the U.S. continues down the path of least resistance until it finds a feasible remedy. India has stated they would not participate in full blown official diplomatic discussions with Pakistan until the extremist groups in Pakistan are fully dismantled, which would entail the dismantling of the Pakistani state. Perhaps it's time for India to try and convince the U.S. a dismantling of this sort is the best remedy possible."


Michael Hughes

http://www.huffingto...t-abou_b_652224.html
a k ghai
mumbai, India
16/D-74
Aug 22, 2010
08:55 PM
We are committing a serious mistake if we think that present turmoil in Kashmir is for Azadi or even 370 or greater autonomy.The present movement is in hands of pro Pakistani and those Kashmiri Muslims whose ultimate aim is to merge with Pakistan and impose Sharia .

Hardliners presently controlling the Kashmir Movement are acting ob behalf of Pakistani Army who wants to boil Kashmir continuously and incrementally increase the turmoil in next 24 to 30 months .Once the USA withdraws from Afghanistan and Pakistan supported Talibans are installed in Kabul the General Ashfaq Kayani will turn hid forces' might towards West to FORCE INDIA TO ACCEPT HUMILIATING PEACE Plan or have turmoil in length and breadth of India with escalated Terrorists attacks AND IF POSSIBLE TO START CIVIL WAR BETWEEN HINDUS AND MUSLIMS.

General Kayani has calculated his moves creditably well. As per Pakistan's calculations by 2013 Indian Govt will be in tethers .Manmohan Singh's Scandals covered Govt will be on its last legs.Congress under Sonia will be busy in trying to win 2014 elections and install Rahul Gandhi as PM .Opposition Parties will be engaged in tug of War with Congress's game plan .

Meanwhile the UPA I and UPA II has terribly failed to modernize Indian Forces.USA has been time and again been pointing out after every Joint Exercise that the training and and Generalship of Indian Army is the best in the World but the Equipment is junk and crumbling.

After 26/11 it was humiliating to read in Newspapers that General Kapoor had said that the Army lacks equipment even some Foreign reputed commentators ageed that India is in no position to match Pakistan Army's Armaments.

SO THE ISSUE IS NOT 370 OR AUTONOMY OR EVEN AZADI IT IS MERGER OF KASHMIR IN PAKISTAN AND WISH OF EACH AND EVERY PAKISTANI TO AVENGE 1971 ESPECIALLY PAKISTAN ARMY who take the only oath -in passing out at Kakool Academy that they will avenge 1971 !

India should better break free from the passive mindset .
a k ghai
mumbai, India
17/D-75
Aug 22, 2010
09:02 PM
Present turmoil in Kashmir is an extension of USA's AF-Pak Policy.The moment USA withdraws from the Region we will have serious turmoil on our hands which unfortunately the present Indian Leadership is totally incapable of handling.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
18/D-1
Aug 23, 2010
12:17 AM
MFR,

>> US would do well to contemplate the nuke option. It is only for such situations that nuclear deterrence is needed.

Nobody in the civilized world would agree with you. A nuclear attack is not nuclear deterrence. A nuclear attack can bring down a country, but the Americans are not at war with Afghanistan or Pakistan but with terrorists who are scattered all over and ensconced in civilian populations.

Over 60% of Americans want out of Afghanistan. Domestic political compulsions are going to weigh heavily in the denouement. Obama may have the best of intentions, but there are ground realities in both Afghanistan and in the United States that he has to factor in. A good outcome to the AfPak effort would be a miracle.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
19/D-16
Aug 23, 2010
02:21 AM
Interesting to see that Dalrymple's views oscillate quite violently based on the medium in which we happens to be writing. On the Guardian, he is decidedly pro-Pakistani, gloating unabashedly at the spectre of India's ouster from Afghanistan at the hands of the ISI - Pak army nexus. On the occasion of the Mumbai attacks he was quick to point the hand to home grown extremists and dismiss Pakistani involvement even while the operation was raging and endorsed the Pakistani view that Mumbai attacks were linked solely to Kashmir. Dalrymple has proved that he is a mere wordsmith willing to bend whichever way the wind blows.
Shubhang
New Delhi, India
20/D-21
Aug 23, 2010
04:37 AM
India should develop it's relation with Tajik Afghanistan & also encourage the Pathans of Afghanistan & Pakistan to have a country of their own.
Hriday
London, United Kingdom
21/D-31
Aug 23, 2010
07:01 AM
Everyone's all gung-ho for India to hold bilateral talks with the terrorist Pak govt in order to resolve issues peacefully and start normal relations.
But they refuse to acknowledge Pak has consistently stated position that even if the Kashmir situation was resolved to its advantage, Pak will still continue its low-intensity war against India- ad infinitum!
When the Pak govt states its positions so unambiguously and inflexibly, how can anyone expect any meaningful dialogue or even trusting them?
Bodh
Springfield, United States
22/D-37
Aug 23, 2010
08:33 AM
MFR,
>> US would do well to contemplate the nuke option. It is only for such situations that nuclear deterrence is needed.

somebody should mull building a pencil sized nuke for you a@se. Then you will understand the effects of a nuclear fall-out. Why are all ex-shudras such pathetic scums?
Shantilal Verma
New York, United States
23/D-38
Aug 23, 2010
09:23 AM
--"All the money that came in: none of it was given to Afghans—just to their own contractors, or wasted in corruption"

All Americans who complain about how much "we do for them" should hear this .. again and again.

--"Dalrymple has proved that he is a mere wordsmith willing to bend whichever way the wind blows."

I agree with this. He is a bit like Margolis in the Toronto Star, who was Reagans foot soldier from the 80's, and who cannot seem to get past his Pashtun fetish.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
24/D-45
Aug 23, 2010
11:36 AM
"The bomb blast site near the Indian embassy in Kabul, October"

The attack on Indian Embassy was ISI-Talibani-LeT joint Operation.Previously India did face many such joint concentrated attacks on Indian Main land .26/11 was one of them

The links of ISI-LeT have been laid bare by the testimony of Pakistani-American Headely .

"According to a report on the interrogation, accessed by The Indian Express, Headley provided details about the role of the Pakistan government, the ISI and its tie-up with the Lashkar in the 26/11 attack.

26/11 ATTACK In interrogation report, agency quotes Headley as saying Hafiz Saeed approves every major Lashkar operation

ARRESTED Lashkar-e Tohiba operative David Coleman Headley has told Indian interrogators that Pakistan ISI chief Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha visited Adiala Jail in Rawalpindi to meet Lashkar’s chief military commander Zaki-urRehman Lakhvi, held for the 26/11 attack on Mumbai. Headley also said “every major action of LeT is done only after the approval of (outfit founder) Hafiz Saeed”.

http://epaper.indian...8_2010_001_026.shtml
a k ghai
mumbai, India
25/D-47
Aug 23, 2010
11:56 AM
"He also stated that reconnaissance videos in respect of other targets in Mumbai, Delhi, Pune, Goa, Pushkar (Rajasthan) will be used by LeT or 313 Brigade to attack India on a large scale " Headely's information to NIA.

This should open the eyes of the Innocent Wide eyed Doves here who plead for opening windows of humanitarian approach to Pakistan at this need of hour or who support more Aid to Pakistan .

There are numerous such noble but ignorant souls who don't that Aid will not change the mind set of Pakistani Army,IS and Jihadi Inc .No such consideration weigh in their calculations.They harbour nefarious designs of the highest degree against us.

LeT and Queda have laid one and only one condition for us that the Indians convert if we want to be safe from the future Jihad carnages.We can trust LeT and Queda on this count.

The only other alternative available for India is to be ready to fight the Terror Designs but alas ????
a k ghai
mumbai, India
26/D-48
Aug 23, 2010
11:59 AM
There are numerous such noble but ignorant souls who don't REALISE that Aid will not change the mind set of Pakistani Army,IS and Jihadi Inc

corrected
a k ghai
mumbai, India
27/D-50
Aug 23, 2010
12:31 PM
Ghai,

>> LeT and Queda have laid one and only one condition for us that the Indians convert if we want to be safe.

You are using their loose talk, which hardly any serious journalist reports, to spread your hysteria and panic. Take some deep breaths and think of something nice.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
28/D-51
Aug 23, 2010
12:35 PM
--"It's in India's and the world's interest, to have a democratic, pluralistic, secular ideology and regime in Afghanistan."

Its amazing that the people least interested in 'democratic, pluralistic, secular' government are always the first ones to parade this argument. Americans do this literally on a daily basis world-wide as and when they deem it necessary to spit out platitudes (invariably it has to do with their economic interests). Hindutvas do it when referring to Pakistan, Afghanistan or any other Muslim country. Republicans do it. Democrats do it. Amazing.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
29/D-53
Aug 23, 2010
12:45 PM
'You are using their loose talk, which hardly any serious journalist reports, to spread your hysteria and panic. Take some deep breaths and think of something nice.' faruki

I read National Dailes.They mentioned that Imam Osmana Bin Laden has directed the Indians to convert .I heard LeT cum Dawa Amir on TV with similar message.

They rarely indulge in loose talk .9/11 Towers and 26/11 are the examples.You are witness to one and I am to the other.

[ Taken many deep breaths and revelation is that I am labelled a Sanghi ]
a k ghai
mumbai, India
30/D-54
Aug 23, 2010
01:10 PM
Ghai,

>> They mentioned that Imam Osmana Bin Laden has directed the Indians to convert .

He is not an imam. How many Hindus has he converted so far from his cave?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
31/D-57
Aug 23, 2010
01:54 PM
A sikh friend gave me a book called battle of saragadhi where few sikh soldiers held on to fort against thousands strong yusufzai lashkar. Sikhs captured kabul.
But the fact is a mountainous country is difficult to tame permanently. Shivaji had sahyadri range, Rana pratap had hilly areas of rajasthan and Sikhs went in to hiding in himachal areas.

There is another angle to this war. US army is bringing in more drones and robots. The strike ratio of taliban is very poor in direct fights and most of time not a single american soldier dies. I dont think we will see free taliban rule of earlier times in afghanistan again.

American army is guided by stupid secular politicians and they want to win heart of afghans the same way they did in Iraq. The geography dictates the rebellion. Even mughals or Scindhias could never tame ravines of chambal where no human right activists was there to finger them. Only chance americans stand by developing afghan army who for its own selfish interest will capture power and will maintain good relations with world. Some thing created by kamaal ataturk in turkey.

I admire parvez musharraf for his rule and stupid pakistani islamist disposed him off. Few more years he would have taken pakistan out of morass and made it stable as turkey. many years from now people will appreciate musharraf and also narsimha rao for their role in bringing stability to their strife torn countries.
narendra
Indore, India
32/D-58
Aug 23, 2010
01:55 PM
if the usa wants, it can eradicate the taliban in short time. but vested interests coopting the pak's isi (which has dragged the war on and on without any tangible results) has kept success out of reach and worn out the usa. the usa is fatigued bleeding from pak's death by a thouand cuts!!!
nandakumar
chennai, india
33/D-59
Aug 23, 2010
02:08 PM
AK Ghai,
Your analysis is beautiful and truth is indian defence preparedness is crumbling and shortage of officers in army point out low morale. India only lost because we were militarily poor or not united. In the battle of panipat the muslims were united but rajputs and jaats stayed away from the battle. only Alha singh of Patiala helped maratha with fodder. Though later maratha captured areas north of delhi beyond yamuna but they had lost momentum. Similarly british could win because India was divided in to 500 small kingdoms fighting each other post death of childless peshwa.

The conclusions are very easy. We need united india which is militarily strong to protect our culture. It will not be idea to dump present democracy and replace it with more wider based one where more people participate in decision making. political parties with control of decision making given back to members and not great leaders. Some thing what is seen in USA and UK. Where members of parliament vote on the advice of his voters and not on order of great leaders. the whip is anti democratic.
narendra
Indore, India
34/D-69
Aug 23, 2010
05:55 PM
"Its amazing that the people least interested in 'democratic, pluralistic, secular' government"

Yes, I'm sure we all want a theocratic, dictatorial, monocultural government in Afghanistan. That would serve India's and the world's interests. For the record, I definitely do not want the good or bad Taliban in power in Afghanistan. Nor any Pakistani sponsored group, which is the same thing. Karzai, for all his faults, is the best choice at the present time.
But more than that, it is India itself, with its 'soft power', that is winning and has won the hearts of the majority of the Afghan people. After all, India does not have a military mission there. Shashi Tharoor spoke of a particular Indian TV programme that was India's biggest asset in Afghanistan.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
35/D-71
Aug 23, 2010
06:05 PM
For years, Eric Margolis has had a particular hostility toward India, stemming largely from his cold war/Atlanticist outlook, which can be even cruder than Zbigniew Brezezinsky. Margolis has been obsessed with the 'contain Russia by any means' doctrine. And that includes roping in another totalitarian state like China, in one of history's gross perversions. Since India was not part of this policy, India is fair game for Margolis' worst paranoia and his most perfidious schemes, including sympathy for Jihadis in Kashmir.

Dalrymple is not a cold war acolyte, merely someone who is fascinated with the Mughul phase of India's history. He feels it is his duty to tell Indians that the Mughul phase was India's most glorious, and India should be inspired by that alone, not by anything pre-Mughul/pre-Moslem, not even by Nehruvian secularism, and postitively not by Hindutva or Hindu nationalism, or India with a Hindu spirit and ethos.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
36/D-79
Aug 23, 2010
07:14 PM
>> You are using their loose talk, which hardly any serious journalist reports, to spread your hysteria and panic. Take some deep breaths and think of something nice.

And while you are doing that, also clear your mind of the Mumbai attacks, Kashmir violence or the thousands of bomb attacks. After that, go light some candles at Wagah.
Whats InAName
San Francisco, United States
37/D-85
Aug 23, 2010
08:35 PM
He is not an imam. '

He is called so by his followers .


'How many Hindus has he converted so far from his cave?"

That is not the issue.

Issue is the threats from Queda and LeT -ISI combine which still persist.And element of Religious extremism is the basic ingredient of the threats hurled at us.

The latest story that ISI has warned Talibs not to negotiate without permission reveals the nexus of between all of them.

USA will withdraw but we can't move away.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
38/D-94
Aug 23, 2010
09:34 PM
Obama's popularity has hit several notches down in US ... a mosque at ground zero is just one issue on which Obama has developed cold feet in dealing with Islamic terrorists, Taliban/Pakistan and Afhjanistan is another ... he has to be careful, or else he will be taken for a ride ... a mistake, deal with Taliban, or pre-mature withdrawal from Afghanistan and not US but the whole world will have to regret it ...
The Contrarian
London, United Kingdom
39/D-98
Aug 23, 2010
10:38 PM
--"Yes, I'm sure we all want a theocratic, dictatorial, monocultural government in Afghanistan. That would serve India's and the world's interests"

Im sure you would. Throwing around meaningless phrases is fun and ultimately useless. The quality of life of the average Afghan hasnt changed an iota after the U.S. invasion. The Talibs are everywhere and the Mayor of Kabul (Karzai) is incapable of forming a government without the help of the Taliban.

For all our talk about 'democratic, pluralistic, secular' and other such meaningless platitudes, the U.S. will ultimately empower the Taliban with Pakistan's help and Pakistan will continue to dominate Afghan politics through their Talib proxies. The hypocrisy is blatant and buying into it is insane. I do agree with your characterization of Margolis and Dalrymple.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
40/D-2
Aug 24, 2010
12:12 AM
"the U.S. will ultimately empower the Taliban with Pakistan's help and Pakistan will continue to dominate Afghan politics through their Talib proxies. The hypocrisy is blatant and buying into it is insane.."

India does not have to accept it. India can find like minded people and countries that are willing to oppose the Taliban; there are any number of native Afghans who will be against a Taliban run government.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
41/D-5
Aug 24, 2010
02:53 AM
--"India can find like minded people and countries that are willing to oppose the Taliban"

India's Afghan policy just crashed and burned the moment the U.S. offered unconditional support to Pakistan and its Military. Pakistan can commit broad, daylight murder (wikileaks) and they will still get a free pass because Obama's domestic compulsions demand it. 60% of Americans think the war is going badly and Obama will do everything he can to cut and run even if it means allowing Pakistan to control Afghanistan thru their Talib proxies.

In a perfect world India, Iran, Russia and China can join forces and attempt to bring stability to Afghanistan by empowering Afghan Armed Forces in defeating the Talibs, coupled with American help in completely shutting out Pakistan and its Military. That has absolutely no chance of happening in the post-U.S. Afghanistan era. Firstly because it is not in U.S. strategic interests to have Russia, China and Iran involved in Afghanistan and secondly because Russia, China and Iran are not likely to co-operate with each other or with the U.S. Pakistan of course stands to gain the most in this situation, just as Iran stands to gain the most in post-U.S. Iraq.

The fu~!!ing Americans should just stay put and stop destroying the friggin planet.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
42/D-9
Aug 24, 2010
03:49 AM
Ghai,

>> the threats from Queda and LeT -ISI combine which still persist.

Not to the extent that one has to be obsessed by it.

"A coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave die but once."
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
43/D-46
Aug 24, 2010
06:53 PM
Anwaar,

whole world is obsessed about threats except you
narendra
Indore, India
44/D-49
Aug 24, 2010
08:13 PM
Give the devil it's due. Hamid Karzai has proved to be smarter than all players in the region - US included. He has played the Indian's against Pakistan , Pakistan against India & both Pakistan & India against US. Much as Indian political class including NDA regime would want to send Indian military to Afganistan, Pakistani resistance prevented that to happen. Having intervened in Afganistan on huge miscalculation - as in Iraq - US is watching helplessly as the initiatives increasingly slips out from their hand. Karzai along with his cronies is literally cashing in on blank cheques underwritten by US.

Is Pakistan any gainer? Hardly. Their military is obssessed with shortsighted policy to stymie India in Afganistan as well as in the region. Pakistani is a very poor & small country - devoid of any natural resources or industry of any worth . Agricuture also is not contributing anything worthwhile to the economy. By shear force of economic logic US, one day, will have to pull the rug from under Pakisatni military's feet. Today or tomorrow their economy - majorly propped up by US - is bound to collapse - with that it's military , ISI & what not. I presume Pakisatni nuclear arsenal is already under American control. So , despite it's many failings, India has to have the last laugh.

As to Afganistan , it's heading for it's history to be repeated for one more time. Taliban once again is going to regain control of Kabul with a Mullah Omar like figure ruling. ( Osama -bin-Laden is dead as dodo; he lives in American construction as a dead Laden deconstructs the main rationale for American presence there in the first place as average American believe Ameriacn soldiers are dying in Afganistan to vindicate 9/11, said to be Laden's doing.)

In this scenerio what mercenary history writers like Darymple says or writes is beside the point. In near future India should ready itself for a set-back which is ascendency of Taliban in Kabul. If we paly our cards right, which so far we did , future there is India's - to be shared with China. Disengage totally from Afganistan as Chinese are , which any fool will tell you is not a communist country. America does not beleive so. But it suits the Amercans if India has communst China phobea.
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
45/D-52
Aug 24, 2010
11:17 PM
Narendra,

>> whole world is obsessed about threats except you.

Not really! Actually the chances of my dying in a traffic accident are 100 times more than my being killed by a terrorist.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
46/D-1
Aug 25, 2010
12:35 AM
--"Today or tomorrow their economy - majorly propped up by US - is bound to collapse - with that it's military , ISI & what not"

Unfortunately this sounds more like wishful thinking than reality. The U.S. will never allow Pakistan to collapse. The threat of 'jihadist extremism' emanating from its borders is enough to keep them engaged in Pakistan. The hated Pakistani Military and ISI, to their credit, have capitalized brilliantly on this weakness. Even the floods have been used as an excuse to project the threat of militants and thus the 'help us or we all go down' logic keeps those millions coming in indefinitely as it has been these last 60 years.

Lets face it ...the U.S. finds it infinitely easier to deal with the Military in Pakistan than a messy Democracy like India and therein lies the rub.

Even assuming the Military collapses, would you really like the Tehreek-e-Taliban on our border, wielding advanced American made weapons ?!! Forget Democracy, lets hope the Pakistani Military can at least keep those loonies in check.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
47/D-5
Aug 25, 2010
02:45 AM
"Not really! Actually the chances of my dying in a traffic accident are 100 times more than my being killed by a terrorist."

OH right you are one of them.we forget.
b b patel
new york, United States
48/D-6
Aug 25, 2010
02:45 AM
anwaar

you no wory.

we same side.
siemens
dallas, United States
49/D-9
Aug 25, 2010
03:26 AM
Patel,

>> OH right you are one of them. we forget.

"They" have killed 100 times more Muslims than Hindus. Are you retarded?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
50/D-13
Aug 25, 2010
03:41 AM
--"OH right you are one of them.we forget."

Who is 'us' and who is 'them' ? If you are referring to the Sangh Brotherhood you should be more explicit. Cryptic, moronic jibes are best left back in your cave.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
51/D-18
Aug 25, 2010
04:59 AM
IF THEY KILLED 100 % MORE MUSLIMS. AGREED.
ACCIDENT IS SUDDEN. TERRORIST KILLING IS INTENTION.
THEN WHY COMPARE?
LET IT BE CLEAR TERRORIST HAD NO RELIGION.

ARE HINDU DO NOT HAVE RIGHT TO HAVE OPINION?
b b patel
new york, United States
52/D-24
Aug 25, 2010
07:36 AM
Patel,

>> LET IT BE CLEAR TERRORIST HAD NO RELIGION.

Which of the following two statements associate religion with terrorism?

(1) Actually the chances of my dying in a traffic accident are 100 times more than my being killed by a terrorist (Anwaar).

(2) OH right you are one of them. we forget (Patel).
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
53/D-47
Aug 25, 2010
11:31 AM
>The U.S. will never allow Pakistan to collapse.

The contention is a time may come when even if US want to prop up Pakistan, they would be powerless to do so. As to Pakistani military being the best bet for that country US thought so. Look what mess this same military has dragged US into.

Before the last Pakistani election the dominant vertcal in Inidia's Pakistani policy was that Mussaraf was India's best bet. There is Gen. Kayani now ; who can bet that a Yahya Khan like officer will not come on top of Pakistani armed forces in future?
MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
54/D-83
Aug 25, 2010
10:09 PM
--"The contention is a time may come when even if US want to prop up Pakistan, they would be powerless to do so. As to Pakistani military being the best bet for that country US thought so."

Manish ... i do not support a Military dictatorship in Pakistan. On the contrary, the only way out for Pakistan is true representative Democracy, which of course the U.S. has not permitted to flourish these last 60 years. They have been using Pakistan as a client State and supporting one dictator after another. The only event where the U.S. will be powerless to help Pakistan is if a truly democratic Pakistan refuses to act as an American condom.

Military dictatorships, compromised 'political' leaders and hardline extremists are easy to deal with as an entity, just arm them or fund them or offer unconditional support even in the face of abject International criticism ! This has been the American strategy all these years.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
55/D-89
Aug 26, 2010
07:32 PM
Could we speak less about what the US is doing, not doing, with regards to Pakistan, and more about what India should do, so that a democratic, pluralist and India-friendly regime is established in Afghanistan. The US has been unprincipled and selfish, without a doubt. And yes, it should be condemned.But there's a lot of goodwill in Afghanistan for India, and India can build on this.If India needs foreign assistance, there's Russia, Iran, Japan, Korea and a host of other countries that would be sympathetic.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
56/D-104
Aug 26, 2010
09:55 PM
--"Could we speak less about what the US is doing, not doing, with regards to Pakistan, and more about what India should do, so that a democratic, pluralist and India-friendly regime is established in Afghanistan."

You must make an attempt at reading the posts first. You want to ignore the big, fat, white elephant in the room and pretend it doesnt exist (because you love your masters and all). Its understandable but useless. Your lack of knowledge of the Afghan situation can be easily remedied by reading.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
57/D-107
Aug 26, 2010
10:43 PM
Some people cannot think beyond the master-servant dichotomy. India is a big( the world's most populous democracy) diverse, democratic, pluralistic, dynamic and independent minded country, that is capable of making its own benign influence felt in places like Afghanistan. As for the US, India can and will have a broad based, mature,intelligent relationship with it, sometimes agreeing, other times disagreeing, still on other events being neutral. If the US is supporting India, that's probably one of the few sagacious policies the US has followed, and it should be applauded. Incidentally, what high minded principles were China following when it joined a 'contain Russia' policy in the 70's and early 80's. And this was China, mind you, big independent, powerful China. Being roped in to counter another totalitarian state. Don't expect saintliness from India. India has to pursue a policy of ethical self-interest, while being free, open and pluralistic internally. And that's what it's doing.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
58/D-113
Aug 26, 2010
11:36 PM
--"India is a big( the world's most populous democracy) diverse, democratic, pluralistic, dynamic and independent minded country"

Besides using half the dictionary to describe India in superlatives , once again you refuse to either make a point or even attempt to find out whats being discussed.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
59/D-33
Aug 27, 2010
08:45 AM
The idea is to fill the forum with so much crap that ppl would not be able to read a coherent argument.
kishoredasmunshi
Kolkatta, India
60/D-60
Aug 27, 2010
12:38 PM
"The idea is to fill the forum with so much crap that ppl would not be able to read a coherent argument."

That is exactly the best part about Outlook forums. Simple arguments evolve into dung-slinging match. I am gratefull to all the crappers (including myself) for having de-addicted me from FB. Outlook forums rock.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
61/D-103
Aug 27, 2010
09:24 PM
Okay, here's the argument. Regardless of what the US does or does not do, India should and will stay engaged in Afghanistan. Making the US into some larger than life entity, around which everything including Indian policy in Afghanista must revolve, is a sign of hyper-obession and also of weakness. The exact thing critics of the US want India to avoid, yet constantly snipe about.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
62/D-110
Aug 27, 2010
10:59 PM
--"Regardless of what the US does or does not do, India should and will stay engaged in Afghanistan."

Its not an argument. Its a supposition. Rest is hyperbole. One more embassy bombing and India's 'should and will' strategy will unravel.

--"Making the US into some larger than life entity, around which everything including Indian policy in Afghanista must revolve, is a sign of hyper-obession and also of weakness. "

The RSS mindset cannot see weakness because the Hindu Rashtra is so overwhelmingly strong and powerful. Reality of cousre is a bitch. I hate to burst your precious bubble. The U.S. has already chosen its bed-partner (Pakistan and the Taliban) for its Afghan strategy. No amount of RSS-infused tantrums that you throw will change a thing.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
63/D-23
Aug 28, 2010
02:37 AM
Again, there you go, India is weak, India is no good, India must play second fiddle to any another country, India can't do much in Afghanistan.

Can you be a little more negative? This positive outlook is too giddy and light headed.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
64/D-26
Aug 28, 2010
02:59 AM
--"Can you be a little more negative?"

Sure. Indian foreign policy has failed miserably these last 10 years. Despite being on the brink of bankruptcy and being hated by most of the world, Pakistan has still managed to upstage us and essentially get its way in Afghanistan. Not just the U.S., but China and Russia are beginning to see Pakistan's strategic importance. After voluntarily giving up our independent foreign policy objectives and tying in our lot with the Americans, all we have so far is a nice, big dinner in the White House. We are afraid of the jihadis that Pakistan can unleash. We are terrified of China's moves in Arunachal Pradesh. We have voluntarily silenced the Tibetan movement. We destroyed our credibility in Nepal and have allowed China to get a foothold in Sri Lanka under our very noses, even while sitting by quietly and being out-maneuvered by devious Sri Lankan politicians ... all the while witnessing a massacre. All in all a pretty impressive decade of flubs. Call us when you get off that high.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
65/D-49
Aug 31, 2010
09:26 AM
Another variation on the theme that India is weak, bumbling, incompetent, and that every country from the US to Swazliland has outmanoeuvered India, and moreover, will continue to do so in the forseeable future.
You are of course welcome to such pessimism and negativity; it doesn't mean that every Indian or person of Indian origin has to feel the same way.
Varun Shekhar
Toronto, CANADA
66/D-122
Aug 31, 2010
10:17 PM
--"it doesn't mean that every Indian or person of Indian origin has to feel the same way."

Your personal feelings are irrelevant to reality. Get a grip.
Cata Maran
Soccer City, South Africa
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