hello,
i m a film makingstudent. want to make a docu on this topic could u help me in some way.

Mr Joseph Kurian says,

>> "But I agree that some men are born effeminate and that is a genetic condition"

Just that sentence shows that you are not uptodate on the subject. You are trying to govern the behavior of others based on such antiquated knowledge. Anyway I think I have said everything to you that I wanted to say. Have a good day.

Mr Ghulam Faruki

The overwhelming evidence you speak about is quite debatable if you are referring to sodomy and bestiality. But I agree that some men are born effeminate and that is a genetic condition. The cleverness is to use the genetic argument for the wrong meaning of homosexuality.

I think that it is the damaging influence on society that will be overwhelming. I am not for changing the law. It is in the best interest of society and sincerely hope that the Indian courts will not allow overturning the existing law.

Mr Joseph Kurian,

You are right that we do not have conclusive evidence of the cause of homosexuality, but the evidence is overwhelming that persistent homosexuality has a biological basis. This of course does not apply to situational homosexuality. As I said before sex hygiene is a suitable subject for health education, but not for the penal system.

Mr Ghulam Faruki

Thanks for sharing your views. But not everyone is ready to believe what the Gay lobby loudly wants to promote as truth. There is no conclusive evidence that some people are inborn homosexuals though some swallow the hype. That most people are drawn into it in boarding schools and the influence of perverts and traumatic circumstances, is more credible to most thinking people. Perversion has existed in all countries and I am not saying that sodomy is imported from the West. But accepting it as inborn and genetic, has found acceptance in the West and we should not import such a lie, so also the related dishonest propositions that are touted along with the Genetic theory.

We should not be importing the tolerance for a destructive lifestyle that does harm not just to those who are involved, but those entire innocent others who will become victims. Tolerance, respect for individual privacy and civil rights already exist in abundant measure in India, but when that spills over into turning a blind eye to the dangers, especially to the vulnerable sections of society, thinking people resist.

Mr Joseph Kurian,

Abolishing an archaic law will not increase homosexual activity, but it will prevent innocent people with an alternative sexuality from being stigmatized and criminalised. There has always been and always will be homosexuality and homosexual practises in India. Decriminalizing it does not pose a risk to young persons who have inborn heterosexuality. We are not importing homosexuality from the West. What we are trying to import is tolerance, respect for individual privacy and respect for the civil rights of those following an alternative life style.

Mr Ghulam Faruki

I do empathize with persons in the Gay quandary. They badly need this unnatural sex that is today deemed illegal and want the law overturned. But then there is danger in providing such legal respectability to sodomy and bestiality. A change of the law would be the equivalent of overturning laws against the use of drugs. When people are unfortunately dependent on drugs or unnatural sex they need our empathy and support. But changing the law that defines what is harmful is not the solution. We need to recognize such acts as wrong and enact laws that will help people come out of such dependence. But then the Gay lobby is powerful and influential with access to immense funding and has maneuvered society to obtain recognition and respectability in the West. They have successfully painted something unnatural as normal behavior and influenced even national Psychiatric bodies to drop homosexuality from their list of pathological conditions. Unlike drugs, there is a lead-time between such behavior and the destructive consequences and the Gay lobby has been able to pull it off.

Apart from health concerns, overturning the law that puts a check on such activity will have dangerous social implications. This is so especially among the young who will begin to consider it as normal and legitimate “alternate sexuality” and feel freer to experiment in a dangerous area. The biggest beneficiaries of the new culture will be the oldest profession, which in India makes big bucks in the heterosexual area. We see its manifestation in mass prostitution through cinema and advertising or through ‘lubricating’ business deals or sexual payoffs to individual politicians and decision makers. Then there are the plain old classical methods of soliciting and prostitution at all levels of the socio economic strata of society. Already there are known haunts in Delhi where homosexuals regularly visit in order to find someone to satisfy their needs. Presently the police have some control, but once the law is overturned and the community attains the status of a legitimate minority community, we will see open protests and demonstrations that are not going to be in the interest of society. We have seen it happen in the West. Why should we be so foolish to repeat the same mistake in our country?

Joseph Kurian,

You would deny gay people the right to have sexual activity based on health concerns. A state's responsibility is to provide health education in order to promote safe practises rather than be a policeman in people's bedrooms. The risk arises from promiscuity and non-use of precautions such as condoms. Such behaviors are risky for both heterosexual and homosexual sex. If the state has the powers to punish unhealthful behaviors, will they lock up those who smoke cigarettes, or those who over-indulge in high-cholesterol foods? Section 377 is just a means to persecute a minority, deny them their privacy rights, make them feel that they are in some way criminals and interrupt their otherwise productive lives with unnecessary incarcerations. While religions proscribe homosexuality, it is not the state's business to enforce religious injunctions. It is a conflict between an individual and his faith, the individual should deal with it in his/her own way, and the state should keep out of it.

GHULAM Y FARUKI

It is interesting that you claim to be heterosexual and a Muslim (at least the name you use here). I am not sure that progressive and liberal Muslims can take your view unless they deny their own faith. So is the case of anyone who claims to belong to any of the other established religions. But then if a person would like to argue outside the context of religion, the evidence against sodomy and bestiality are convincing to any educated person. The infusion of the gay sub-culture into an already deteriorating situation is not welcomed. Already the institution of the family is under attack and eroding. The opening of the floodgates of perversion in a beautiful country like India will play the same havoc as in the West and people recognize it.

If one were to have a scientific bent of mind or some exposure to research methods one would not so glibly swallow all the theories that the Gay lobby spews out. Unfortunately the masses of the people are vulnerable to propaganda, especially that which is based on pseudo scientific studies. And the battle to deceive the masses rages!

The Gay community also uses the religious argument. They pick out freak and exceptional cases and argue that it is part of the religion, just as Vikram Seth did in the case of Hinduism in an interview recorded in Observer. Whether it is the Hindu political parties like the BJP or the Shiv Sena, Hindu scholars or the religious leadership, few of them would agree with Seth.

Vir Sanghvi, Editorial Director, Hindustan Times, who always gets very positive feedback through letters to the editor, unusually got a lot of ire from educated Indians for his arguments for the removal of section 377. I am sure that the paper got a barrage of protesting letters and they were forced to publish some of them. When people have hidden and perverted agendas they tend to loose their sense of reason and balance.

If you do read, why don’t you have a look at Jaques Ellul, “From Dawn to Decadence” “500 years of Western History”. My argument is that we are aping the West for the wrong things. The sadness is that if we fail to learn from History, and we are prone to, we are doomed to repeat it.

Yes the attempt of the Gay lobby is desperately trying to play down the risks of anal sex. But behind the scenes, they corner government funding for AIDS, a disease that this tiny minority propagates well out of proportion to their number.

Talking of numbers – that is another part of the strategy. Highly questionable studies are used to show a much higher percentage of homosexuals in the community, in order to be heard. So when there are no conclusive studies, whoever shout loudest wins, and dishonesty is the order of the day!

The Homosexual orientation is one issue. But to justify dangerous behavior and perversion is another matter for which they are attempting to using this orientation argument for. The biggest façade of the gay lobby is to use the homosexual orientation to justify sodomy and bestiality. That is what overturning section 377 is all about.

When outwardly refined persons like Vikram Seth takes such a stand, people do have some degree of sympathy. But then Vikram represents a rare and gentle façade of a violent and dangerous sub-culture that can do immense harm to our Society. I hope that we objectively evaluate the kind of damaging influence on school children and impressionable minds that this culture promotes, before being hasty in overturning the law.

We have laws for our society that will act as a deterrent for people to keep their behavior in check. I must again say that Section 377 is not against the homosexual orientation, but against perversion.

Bharath says, "We need to rewrite India's Constitution for making India the Land of Indic faiths, only-just as Saudi Arabia is for Moslems"

Is Saudi Arabia a good model for India to follow?

Bharath, you suuffer from troubling monomania. Go home, take some valium. Indic faiths are not running away, so don't worry.

We already have too much unwarranted intrusion by law in most matters that are strictly individual. Let's do away with it where we can. To have sex or not, and with whom, is wholly an individual's concern. Unless there is force or a child involved, society has no business to question the individual's choice. Sexual orientation is decided largely by biology and partially by one's own experiences. To exercise it in the way one likes should be a given. If we cannot grant even such basic freedom to individuals, it's mere sham if we consider ourselves mature and 'developing' as a society. Freedom is open to abuse, but denying freedom is not the solution for that. Grant freedom, but control abuse. Let individuals have the right to choose their partners - whether of the same sex or opposite is a mere priority, not crime.

Joseph Kurian,

Being a heterosexual myself, and belonging to a religion that forbids homosexuality, I am not the right one to rply to your posting, but being anti-ignorance, I do need to say something.

You highly exaggerate the health risks of anal intercourse. Anal intercourse between men and women is not uncommon either in India or in the West. The risk comes from indiscriminate or unsafe sexual practises, both heterosexual and homosexual. As long as homoerotic sex is criminal, it will be subject to police exploitation, irrespective of how many new laws are enacted, because discovery is not possible without violating people's privacy.

You say, "The Law should not give freedom even to consenting adults for activities that can cause harm to one another and others, especially children and other vulnerable groups who will end up as victims as the experience in Western countries amply demonstrates"

The law does not give any freedoms to consenting adults for sexual activity that they don't have already, but unjust laws can take freedoms away. Sexual activity with children should of course be a felony with severe punishment. I do not know what dire experiences in the West you are referring to.

You say, "All major religions in India, whether Hinduism, Islam, Sikhism or Christianity condemn such acts that go against nature"

True, but law is not there to serve any religion. You mention "order of nature" more than once. While any definition of it would be arbitrary, homosexuality is considered to be a largely biologiclally determined condition, and therfor a creation of nature. Homosexual acts have been seen to occur in many species.

You say, "Trying to ape the actions of a depraved Western society that is on a roller coaster ride to decadence ...."

That sounds eerily like Osama bin Laden.

A response to the Open Letter against Section 377 by Vikram Seth

It is amazing that, highly respected and rational intellectuals of the caliber of Amartya Sen can loose their equanimity and reason in the quagmire of lies and twists of the truth propagated by the Gay lobby. I am convinced that the eminent group of signatories who have signed the letter by Vikram Seth may not have had time to contemplate on the diabolic strategy in the seemingly innocuous appeal to support the overturning of Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code.

The law in Sec 377 of the Indian Penal Code is clear. It is important to note the wording, which has nothing to do with homosexuals or gays. It simply has to do with voluntarily consenting to carnal intercourse against the order of nature with any man woman or animal. It aims to protect society from the terrible threat of deadly diseases that are spread through such unnatural behavior. There is no connotation whatsoever that same sex love or fondness is objectionable. Penile penetration into the anus of another human being or beast, termed as sodomy and bestiality, are highly dangerous acts that constitute a threat that society needs to be protected against.

But then the enforcement of the law is unfortunately often faulty. As in the case of almost all other similar laws the unjust exploitation of people by the police and even governments is a reality and needs to be addressed by new legislation. Similarly officials who it is claimed, suppress the work of legitimate HIV-prevention groups among gay and bisexual men in India need to be dealt with suitably. But the Law itself is intended to define what is in the best interest of society and to punish those actions that can harm others. Thus overturning Section 377 amounts to throwing away the baby with the bathwater.

The letter of Vikram Seth talks about laws and policies that abuse human rights and limit fundamental freedoms. On the other hand Section 377 enhances the right to health and freedom from exploitation from those who engage in acts that go against the order of nature. The Law should not give freedom even to consenting adults for activities that can cause harm to one another and others, especially children and other vulnerable groups who will end up as victims as the experience in Western countries amply demonstrates.

Section 377 is neither a “Victorian prejudice against gay people” nor springs from a “colonial mindset” as is sometimes argued. Since the colonial era, modern medicine has made considerable headway and has clearly established the dangers of sodomy and bestiality and by hindsight our eyes are freshly opened to the wisdom of such a law.

In fact this is consistent with our own ancient culture, and should not be construed as a blind following of Western prejudice. In spite of all our faults, the wisdom we have, handed down to us has made us a God fearing nation. All major religions in India, whether Hinduism, Islam, Sikhism or Christianity condemn such acts that go against nature. Followed in the true spirit, our religious heritage can be our greatest protection against the dangers that can harm us as a nation.

As a country we are at a time in history when we are ascending the path to prosperity and world leadership. Trying to ape the actions of a depraved Western society that is on a roller coaster ride to decadence will short circuit our own dreams of a modern just and healthy India. We need to promote those activities that our fathers in the constituent assembly envisaged and strive to achieve the lofty aims of justice, equality, liberty and fraternity enshrined in our constitution. Overturning Section 377 will only undermine our cherished goals.

Joseph Kurian
premkurian@gmail.com

New Delhi
20 September 2006

Absolutely! I hope the law is repealed on challenged on the base of its constitutionality. I suppose the lack of social awareness and progress in our country, maybe due to the poor state of public education has something to do with it? Hopefully our current economic boom will result in more money flowing into public education which then will make us more socially aware.

Does an article on homosexuality require a picture of men in drag/hijras? In Sydney, where I live, most homosexuals look decidedly more like the average person on the street devoid of plumage and I don't see why it should be any different in India. This is not to say that men in drag are deviant or more than ordinary. Its merely that such a picture gives out a rather tired, clichéd signal that the homosexual is that effeminate guy in women's clothes and therefore presumably "different".

The problem with all this "Human Rights" agenda is that eventually it will become the right of a 7 year old to choose his sexuality. Yup, in the west there are already school plays and dramas that depict "domestic partners", ie a backdoor deviant to introduce homesexuality to the pre-teens

India needs to change its archaic laws, not only with reference to consenting homosexuality, but also with reference to false pride from public morality, viz. on issues like divorce in order to erase double lives via bisexuality, bigamy, adultery, etc.

Sandeep says,

>> "Homosexuality is a behavioral disorder which is rightly punishable under penal code of India. Constitutional guarantees do not extend to freaks of nature who defy the sacredness, spirituality, and basic tenets of human race, institutions of marriage and social life. For the argument you make to be sustainable, you also should have no problem in accepting euthanasia, incest, bestiality, nudism, and drug use by 'consenting' adults. I wonder where you stand on these issues."

All psychiatric diagnoses are called behavioral disorders. Some, such as obsessive compulsive disorder, are not punishable by law. Others, such as antisocial personality disorder, may result in punishment for antisocial acts. Sexual abuse of children of course calls for very stiff penalties. Homosexuality is no longer included in the list of psychatric disorders. It was removed from the diagnostic manuals in most Western countries in 1960's. It is believed to be a largely biological disorder with very little psychosocial contribution. It causes no harm to any third parties.

Euthanasia in terminal illnesses is a matter for public debate. It is acceptable in some societies, not in others. Incest taboo is central to the sustenance of families. Nudism should be practised only in nudist colonies. Drug use, including tobacco, is deletirious to your health. Indiscriminate homosexual behavior may lead to infection with sexually transmitted diseases, but so can indiscriminate heterosexual beavior.

Homosexuality is a behavioral disorder which is rightly punishable under penal code of India. Constitutional guarantees do not extend to freaks of nature who defy the sacredness, spirituality, and basic tenets of human race, institutions of marriage and social life. For the argument you make to be sustainable, you also should have no problem in accepting euthanasia, incest, bestiality, nudism, and drug use by 'consenting' adults. I wonder where you stand on these issues.
Sandeep

Although Muslim teachings condemn homosexuality, and although I am not gay, I fully support Vikram Seth's plea for the abolition of section 377. The state has no business prying into people's bedrooms and into the affairs of consenting adults.

Although Muslim teachings condemn homosexuality, and although I am not gay, I fully support Vikram Seth's plea for the abolition of section 377. The state has no business prying into people's bedrooms and into the affairs of consenting adults.

Homosexuality is a behavioral disorder which is rightly punishable under penal code of India. Constitutional guarantees do not extend to freaks of nature who defy the sacredness, spirituality, and basic tenets of human race, institutions of marriage and social life. For the argument you make to be sustainable, you also should have no problem in accepting euthanasia, incest, bestiality, nudism, and drug use by 'consenting' adults. I wonder where you stand on these issues.
Sandeep

Sandeep says,

>> "Homosexuality is a behavioral disorder which is rightly punishable under penal code of India. Constitutional guarantees do not extend to freaks of nature who defy the sacredness, spirituality, and basic tenets of human race, institutions of marriage and social life. For the argument you make to be sustainable, you also should have no problem in accepting euthanasia, incest, bestiality, nudism, and drug use by 'consenting' adults. I wonder where you stand on these issues."

All psychiatric diagnoses are called behavioral disorders. Some, such as obsessive compulsive disorder, are not punishable by law. Others, such as antisocial personality disorder, may result in punishment for antisocial acts. Sexual abuse of children of course calls for very stiff penalties. Homosexuality is no longer included in the list of psychatric disorders. It was removed from the diagnostic manuals in most Western countries in 1960's. It is believed to be a largely biological disorder with very little psychosocial contribution. It causes no harm to any third parties.

Euthanasia in terminal illnesses is a matter for public debate. It is acceptable in some societies, not in others. Incest taboo is central to the sustenance of families. Nudism should be practised only in nudist colonies. Drug use, including tobacco, is deletirious to your health. Indiscriminate homosexual behavior may lead to infection with sexually transmitted diseases, but so can indiscriminate heterosexual beavior.

India needs to change its archaic laws, not only with reference to consenting homosexuality, but also with reference to false pride from public morality, viz. on issues like divorce in order to erase double lives via bisexuality, bigamy, adultery, etc.

The problem with all this "Human Rights" agenda is that eventually it will become the right of a 7 year old to choose his sexuality. Yup, in the west there are already school plays and dramas that depict "domestic partners", ie a backdoor deviant to introduce homesexuality to the pre-teens

Does an article on homosexuality require a picture of men in drag/hijras? In Sydney, where I live, most homosexuals look decidedly more like the average person on the street devoid of plumage and I don't see why it should be any different in India. This is not to say that men in drag are deviant or more than ordinary. Its merely that such a picture gives out a rather tired, clichéd signal that the homosexual is that effeminate guy in women's clothes and therefore presumably "different".

Absolutely! I hope the law is repealed on challenged on the base of its constitutionality. I suppose the lack of social awareness and progress in our country, maybe due to the poor state of public education has something to do with it? Hopefully our current economic boom will result in more money flowing into public education which then will make us more socially aware.

A response to the Open Letter against Section 377 by Vikram Seth

It is amazing that, highly respected and rational intellectuals of the caliber of Amartya Sen can loose their equanimity and reason in the quagmire of lies and twists of the truth propagated by the Gay lobby. I am convinced that the eminent group of signatories who have signed the letter by Vikram Seth may not have had time to contemplate on the diabolic strategy in the seemingly innocuous appeal to support the overturning of Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code.

The law in Sec 377 of the Indian Penal Code is clear. It is important to note the wording, which has nothing to do with homosexuals or gays. It simply has to do with voluntarily consenting to carnal intercourse against the order of nature with any man woman or animal. It aims to protect society from the terrible threat of deadly diseases that are spread through such unnatural behavior. There is no connotation whatsoever that same sex love or fondness is objectionable. Penile penetration into the anus of another human being or beast, termed as sodomy and bestiality, are highly dangerous acts that constitute a threat that society needs to be protected against.

But then the enforcement of the law is unfortunately often faulty. As in the case of almost all other similar laws the unjust exploitation of people by the police and even governments is a reality and needs to be addressed by new legislation. Similarly officials who it is claimed, suppress the work of legitimate HIV-prevention groups among gay and bisexual men in India need to be dealt with suitably. But the Law itself is intended to define what is in the best interest of society and to punish those actions that can harm others. Thus overturning Section 377 amounts to throwing away the baby with the bathwater.

The letter of Vikram Seth talks about laws and policies that abuse human rights and limit fundamental freedoms. On the other hand Section 377 enhances the right to health and freedom from exploitation from those who engage in acts that go against the order of nature. The Law should not give freedom even to consenting adults for activities that can cause harm to one another and others, especially children and other vulnerable groups who will end up as victims as the experience in Western countries amply demonstrates.

Section 377 is neither a “Victorian prejudice against gay people” nor springs from a “colonial mindset” as is sometimes argued. Since the colonial era, modern medicine has made considerable headway and has clearly established the dangers of sodomy and bestiality and by hindsight our eyes are freshly opened to the wisdom of such a law.

In fact this is consistent with our own ancient culture, and should not be construed as a blind following of Western prejudice. In spite of all our faults, the wisdom we have, handed down to us has made us a God fearing nation. All major religions in India, whether Hinduism, Islam, Sikhism or Christianity condemn such acts that go against nature. Followed in the true spirit, our religious heritage can be our greatest protection against the dangers that can harm us as a nation.

As a country we are at a time in history when we are ascending the path to prosperity and world leadership. Trying to ape the actions of a depraved Western society that is on a roller coaster ride to decadence will short circuit our own dreams of a modern just and healthy India. We need to promote those activities that our fathers in the constituent assembly envisaged and strive to achieve the lofty aims of justice, equality, liberty and fraternity enshrined in our constitution. Overturning Section 377 will only undermine our cherished goals.

Joseph Kurian
premkurian@gmail.com

New Delhi
20 September 2006

Joseph Kurian,

Being a heterosexual myself, and belonging to a religion that forbids homosexuality, I am not the right one to rply to your posting, but being anti-ignorance, I do need to say something.

You highly exaggerate the health risks of anal intercourse. Anal intercourse between men and women is not uncommon either in India or in the West. The risk comes from indiscriminate or unsafe sexual practises, both heterosexual and homosexual. As long as homoerotic sex is criminal, it will be subject to police exploitation, irrespective of how many new laws are enacted, because discovery is not possible without violating people's privacy.

You say, "The Law should not give freedom even to consenting adults for activities that can cause harm to one another and others, especially children and other vulnerable groups who will end up as victims as the experience in Western countries amply demonstrates"

The law does not give any freedoms to consenting adults for sexual activity that they don't have already, but unjust laws can take freedoms away. Sexual activity with children should of course be a felony with severe punishment. I do not know what dire experiences in the West you are referring to.

You say, "All major religions in India, whether Hinduism, Islam, Sikhism or Christianity condemn such acts that go against nature"

True, but law is not there to serve any religion. You mention "order of nature" more than once. While any definition of it would be arbitrary, homosexuality is considered to be a largely biologiclally determined condition, and therfor a creation of nature. Homosexual acts have been seen to occur in many species.

You say, "Trying to ape the actions of a depraved Western society that is on a roller coaster ride to decadence ...."

That sounds eerily like Osama bin Laden.

We already have too much unwarranted intrusion by law in most matters that are strictly individual. Let's do away with it where we can. To have sex or not, and with whom, is wholly an individual's concern. Unless there is force or a child involved, society has no business to question the individual's choice. Sexual orientation is decided largely by biology and partially by one's own experiences. To exercise it in the way one likes should be a given. If we cannot grant even such basic freedom to individuals, it's mere sham if we consider ourselves mature and 'developing' as a society. Freedom is open to abuse, but denying freedom is not the solution for that. Grant freedom, but control abuse. Let individuals have the right to choose their partners - whether of the same sex or opposite is a mere priority, not crime.

Bharath, you suuffer from troubling monomania. Go home, take some valium. Indic faiths are not running away, so don't worry.

Bharath says, "We need to rewrite India's Constitution for making India the Land of Indic faiths, only-just as Saudi Arabia is for Moslems"

Is Saudi Arabia a good model for India to follow?

GHULAM Y FARUKI

It is interesting that you claim to be heterosexual and a Muslim (at least the name you use here). I am not sure that progressive and liberal Muslims can take your view unless they deny their own faith. So is the case of anyone who claims to belong to any of the other established religions. But then if a person would like to argue outside the context of religion, the evidence against sodomy and bestiality are convincing to any educated person. The infusion of the gay sub-culture into an already deteriorating situation is not welcomed. Already the institution of the family is under attack and eroding. The opening of the floodgates of perversion in a beautiful country like India will play the same havoc as in the West and people recognize it.

If one were to have a scientific bent of mind or some exposure to research methods one would not so glibly swallow all the theories that the Gay lobby spews out. Unfortunately the masses of the people are vulnerable to propaganda, especially that which is based on pseudo scientific studies. And the battle to deceive the masses rages!

The Gay community also uses the religious argument. They pick out freak and exceptional cases and argue that it is part of the religion, just as Vikram Seth did in the case of Hinduism in an interview recorded in Observer. Whether it is the Hindu political parties like the BJP or the Shiv Sena, Hindu scholars or the religious leadership, few of them would agree with Seth.

Vir Sanghvi, Editorial Director, Hindustan Times, who always gets very positive feedback through letters to the editor, unusually got a lot of ire from educated Indians for his arguments for the removal of section 377. I am sure that the paper got a barrage of protesting letters and they were forced to publish some of them. When people have hidden and perverted agendas they tend to loose their sense of reason and balance.

If you do read, why don’t you have a look at Jaques Ellul, “From Dawn to Decadence” “500 years of Western History”. My argument is that we are aping the West for the wrong things. The sadness is that if we fail to learn from History, and we are prone to, we are doomed to repeat it.

Yes the attempt of the Gay lobby is desperately trying to play down the risks of anal sex. But behind the scenes, they corner government funding for AIDS, a disease that this tiny minority propagates well out of proportion to their number.

Talking of numbers – that is another part of the strategy. Highly questionable studies are used to show a much higher percentage of homosexuals in the community, in order to be heard. So when there are no conclusive studies, whoever shout loudest wins, and dishonesty is the order of the day!

The Homosexual orientation is one issue. But to justify dangerous behavior and perversion is another matter for which they are attempting to using this orientation argument for. The biggest façade of the gay lobby is to use the homosexual orientation to justify sodomy and bestiality. That is what overturning section 377 is all about.

When outwardly refined persons like Vikram Seth takes such a stand, people do have some degree of sympathy. But then Vikram represents a rare and gentle façade of a violent and dangerous sub-culture that can do immense harm to our Society. I hope that we objectively evaluate the kind of damaging influence on school children and impressionable minds that this culture promotes, before being hasty in overturning the law.

We have laws for our society that will act as a deterrent for people to keep their behavior in check. I must again say that Section 377 is not against the homosexual orientation, but against perversion.

Joseph Kurian,

You would deny gay people the right to have sexual activity based on health concerns. A state's responsibility is to provide health education in order to promote safe practises rather than be a policeman in people's bedrooms. The risk arises from promiscuity and non-use of precautions such as condoms. Such behaviors are risky for both heterosexual and homosexual sex. If the state has the powers to punish unhealthful behaviors, will they lock up those who smoke cigarettes, or those who over-indulge in high-cholesterol foods? Section 377 is just a means to persecute a minority, deny them their privacy rights, make them feel that they are in some way criminals and interrupt their otherwise productive lives with unnecessary incarcerations. While religions proscribe homosexuality, it is not the state's business to enforce religious injunctions. It is a conflict between an individual and his faith, the individual should deal with it in his/her own way, and the state should keep out of it.

Mr Ghulam Faruki

I do empathize with persons in the Gay quandary. They badly need this unnatural sex that is today deemed illegal and want the law overturned. But then there is danger in providing such legal respectability to sodomy and bestiality. A change of the law would be the equivalent of overturning laws against the use of drugs. When people are unfortunately dependent on drugs or unnatural sex they need our empathy and support. But changing the law that defines what is harmful is not the solution. We need to recognize such acts as wrong and enact laws that will help people come out of such dependence. But then the Gay lobby is powerful and influential with access to immense funding and has maneuvered society to obtain recognition and respectability in the West. They have successfully painted something unnatural as normal behavior and influenced even national Psychiatric bodies to drop homosexuality from their list of pathological conditions. Unlike drugs, there is a lead-time between such behavior and the destructive consequences and the Gay lobby has been able to pull it off.

Apart from health concerns, overturning the law that puts a check on such activity will have dangerous social implications. This is so especially among the young who will begin to consider it as normal and legitimate “alternate sexuality” and feel freer to experiment in a dangerous area. The biggest beneficiaries of the new culture will be the oldest profession, which in India makes big bucks in the heterosexual area. We see its manifestation in mass prostitution through cinema and advertising or through ‘lubricating’ business deals or sexual payoffs to individual politicians and decision makers. Then there are the plain old classical methods of soliciting and prostitution at all levels of the socio economic strata of society. Already there are known haunts in Delhi where homosexuals regularly visit in order to find someone to satisfy their needs. Presently the police have some control, but once the law is overturned and the community attains the status of a legitimate minority community, we will see open protests and demonstrations that are not going to be in the interest of society. We have seen it happen in the West. Why should we be so foolish to repeat the same mistake in our country?

Mr Joseph Kurian,

Abolishing an archaic law will not increase homosexual activity, but it will prevent innocent people with an alternative sexuality from being stigmatized and criminalised. There has always been and always will be homosexuality and homosexual practises in India. Decriminalizing it does not pose a risk to young persons who have inborn heterosexuality. We are not importing homosexuality from the West. What we are trying to import is tolerance, respect for individual privacy and respect for the civil rights of those following an alternative life style.

Mr Ghulam Faruki

Thanks for sharing your views. But not everyone is ready to believe what the Gay lobby loudly wants to promote as truth. There is no conclusive evidence that some people are inborn homosexuals though some swallow the hype. That most people are drawn into it in boarding schools and the influence of perverts and traumatic circumstances, is more credible to most thinking people. Perversion has existed in all countries and I am not saying that sodomy is imported from the West. But accepting it as inborn and genetic, has found acceptance in the West and we should not import such a lie, so also the related dishonest propositions that are touted along with the Genetic theory.

We should not be importing the tolerance for a destructive lifestyle that does harm not just to those who are involved, but those entire innocent others who will become victims. Tolerance, respect for individual privacy and civil rights already exist in abundant measure in India, but when that spills over into turning a blind eye to the dangers, especially to the vulnerable sections of society, thinking people resist.

Mr Joseph Kurian,

You are right that we do not have conclusive evidence of the cause of homosexuality, but the evidence is overwhelming that persistent homosexuality has a biological basis. This of course does not apply to situational homosexuality. As I said before sex hygiene is a suitable subject for health education, but not for the penal system.

Mr Ghulam Faruki

The overwhelming evidence you speak about is quite debatable if you are referring to sodomy and bestiality. But I agree that some men are born effeminate and that is a genetic condition. The cleverness is to use the genetic argument for the wrong meaning of homosexuality.

I think that it is the damaging influence on society that will be overwhelming. I am not for changing the law. It is in the best interest of society and sincerely hope that the Indian courts will not allow overturning the existing law.

Mr Joseph Kurian says,

>> "But I agree that some men are born effeminate and that is a genetic condition"

Just that sentence shows that you are not uptodate on the subject. You are trying to govern the behavior of others based on such antiquated knowledge. Anyway I think I have said everything to you that I wanted to say. Have a good day.

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