hyderabad: charminar row COMMENTS
The ‘shrine’ by the Charminar offended for years as the city’s heritage bosses didn’t react


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Digression
1
Dec 17, 2012
Temple Politics

The true story of the Bhagyalakshmi temple (Mushroom Minarette, Dec 3) is that there was a silakaram (stone idol) from time immemorial at the site of the present temple. Bhagawati, a wife of Quli Qutub Shah, used to offer prayers here. After an outburst of plague, the Shah built the Charminar. Government endowment records are evidence of the temple’s existence for 200 years. The mim is playing dirty politics.

Chinmay, Hyderabad

When so-called photographic evidence from the past is presented, do people realise that photographs of the Charminar can be taken in such a way that the Bhagyalakshmi temple does not show?

Alakshyendra, Hyderabad

Photographic records of the Bhagyalakshmi temple do not exist because by the time photography was invented (early in the 19th century) the temple had been obscured by the construction of the Charminar over it.

Vineet Reddy, Hyderabad

The recent violence in Hyderabad was neither spontaneous nor sudden. It was the work of parties tapping into communal tension to generate a following. Also, the Bhagyalakshmi temple is a recent construction, and not an ancient shrine as claimed by the Hindu right wing.

K.S. Padmanabha, Secunderabad

I remember a temple in existence at the site of the present Bhagyalakshmi temple at least as far back as 1974.

Bowenpalle Venuraja Gopal Rao, Warangal

When shops encroached upon the Charminar, no one protested. People, and the authorities, have a problem only when temples—which many thousands believe sacred—come up again on sites where they stood hundreds of years ago before invading conquerors razed them and built mosques or memorial domes over them.

Paramvir Sawhney, Gurgaon

Sometime soon the BJP and the Sangh parivar will declare the site of the Charminar as the birthplace of some Hindu god/goddess or the other.

Jaykumar, Ahmedabad

A new temple has no business coming up at an ancient monument like the Charminar. It’s a failure on the part of the authorities that the temple was allowed to come up there.

Sriram N., Bangalore

Once upon a time, the Charminar did not exist. Why not, in the name of antiquity, revert things to that state?

Ashutosh Kaul, Toronto

Order by HAVE YOUR SAY
1/D-81
Nov 24, 2012
03:06 PM

 I am shocked to read that when thousands of shops encroached near Charminar did not raise any objections ,why there is such an issue over a temple?By the way every friday muslims encroach upon roads for their prayer.This issue must also be taken up?

Paramvir Sawhney
Gurgaon, India
2/D-91
Nov 24, 2012
03:44 PM

 OK, fair enough, Outlook is against 'encroaching' of historical monuments... good good... now I assume you have the same opinion about encroachment by invaders of Hindu holy temples like Ayodya Ram temple, and Madhura Krishna temple and Kashi Viswanath temple as well??? OR you have  a different opinion? :) 

Prasanth
Melbourne, Australia
3/D-114
Nov 24, 2012
07:12 PM

 Narendra Luther, by his name, appears to be a Christian. INTACH and such NGOs are notorious for being agents of the west. So my suspicion is that, this issue was started by the RoL (Religion of Love, for starters)agents and being picked up and fanned by MIM (Ofcourse, from the Religion of 'peace') for expanding their base. When will India have the balls to throw such vermin out?

Ashwin
Mumbai, India
4/D-115
Nov 24, 2012
07:16 PM

 Ok,now let us talk about the mosques built next to and on hindu shrines in Kashi Vishwanath and Mathura.

Arabaian Dacoit
UDF, Bahamas
5/D-117
Nov 24, 2012
07:21 PM

The Outlook seems to be utmost caring about the illegal encroachments!!!! Recently an illegal Mosque for forcefully build in the National Capital, New Delhi, by Muslims, encroaching the governemnt land. Where were the loftly standards of the Outlook then? 

Prashant
Gurgaon, India
6/D-121
Nov 24, 2012
07:48 PM

Prashanth has looked at the issue in much the same way as those who justify Dec6th.

Those opposed to the temple must be asked if they justify the destructions of temples by Muslim invaders and should be to the  Mosques built at there site.

Now if you keep going back and forth is no way of moving forward,this temple should never have been allowed near a structure which is classified monuement.

To Majlis why indulge in violence and not seek legal remedy,Owaisi is playing with emotions and the people of Old city who lack in Education and have missed the chances which IT provided are becoming Pawns for Majlis.

When is commonsense going to show up.

wrongone
chennai, India
7/D-129
Nov 24, 2012
08:48 PM

 I’ve visited the Charminar since the late ’50s; there was no temple. A small shrine had come up only in the late ’60s.”Anuradha Reddy, State INTACH Convenor "

Temole came up in 1960 if Reddy mam to be believed .
Well Congress was ruling in Delhi and Andhra .

Locks of Babri opened in 1948 when Jawahar Lal wa sthe PM and UP was having a Congress Sarkar .

Locks of Babri Temple reopened by another Nehru Arun in 1987 .

Rajiv Gandhi did Bhimi Pujan at Ram Janm bhumi and started his Election campaign in 1989.

In 1992 Congress ruled India under Rao Sarkar when Babri was razed .BJP was ruling UP

In 1992 Congress was ruling when make shift Ram Mandir came up .
After doing all above finally Congress gave an affidavit that Ram never existed and the withdrew it shouting
Jai Shri RAM !!!

Incidentally Land Records since ancient times including pre Mayuras, Lodhi's ,Mughals Pand British Period say the Land where the Babri Masjid built as Dashrat ka Mahal !

So if the BHAGYA LAXMI mandir came up in 1960 during Congress's Rule then what is so extra ordinary ???  Hindus say that the Temple predates Charminar .

Muslims say Congress is communal and favours Hindus .
Hindus say Congress is communal and favours Muslims .

ASHOK KUMAR GHAI
Mumbai, India
8/D-144
Nov 24, 2012
11:01 PM

Most ridiculous piece of article, I dare the author to produce evidence to suggest there was no temple, several generations of my family have been visiting the temple! Its shame some nonbelievers spreading the crap! Who's Anuradha Reddy? some self-styled non believer......Outlook stop producing crap as articles....kindly focus on strong evidence to buttress your claim …I am sure the author is not a native of Hyderabad ,must be settler from Andhra…who just don’t have any cultural affinity to hyderabad...................

madhukar
hyd, India
9/D-147
Nov 24, 2012
11:19 PM

 September 1687,the day when Aurangazeb's army enterted golkonda fort by bribeing abdullakhan panni who opened gates of fort,on that day aurangazeb's  army plundered and destroyed magnificent  monuments and temples  in hyderabad  including Bhagya lakshmi templeand buildings like dad mahal,chandan mahal,lakkhan mahal and khudha mahal which was 9 stored bulinding which were know for its artistic and architectural excellence were destroyed,just because qutub shahi kings who were shia's,  were tolerant and secular in their approach and outlook they appointed maddana as prime minister and akkana as chief of army,qutub shah kings who treated every religion with great respect , they gave grants to lot of temples,including Bhagya lakshmi temple, and prayed and patronised those temple..

 every one are aware that  photography was invented in 1826,so unfortunately that is reason whythere r no temple photographs r available of that time.so after that small diety  was placed there and regular pooja rituals conducted at the temple,Nizams who were subedars in aurangazeb army, who later became kings of hyderabad follwed polices of intolerence of aurangazeb,as nizam was intolerent who had fanatic follwers like qasim razvi who was chief of mim,and maintained razakars didnt allow prayers at temple.

 hyderabad had12 gates,,were did so called custodians of hyderabad heritage gone when some imp landmarks like ,dilli darwaza,champa darwaza,chaderghat darwaza,yakutpura darwaz, darwaza talab mir jumla,darwaza gowlipura,darwaza aliabad,darwaza doodbowli,etc,afzal gunj bridge gate and residency gates were destroyed and many more serais and gosha mahal ,mishk mahal r encrouched upon,

when highcourt ordered fencing around Badhshahi ashuroor khan built by abdullah qutub shah to protect monument and prevent encrochment,why owasis and its mim is stoping fencing? why hindu r outlook didnt ever mentioned and secular custodians of hyderabad city didnt protest?

vineet reddy
hyderabad,telangana, India
10/D-1
Nov 25, 2012
12:27 AM

We Indians truly deserve every bit of grief we get - divisive politics, lumpen lawmakers and crass level of discouse. One look at the diseased mentality displayed on outlook's comment boards will tell you why.

Varun Garde
Bengaluru, India
11/D-9
Nov 25, 2012
02:35 AM

 How about the authenticity of the photograph. Congress has already questioned the authenticity of the Photograph and I believe that Outlook has the same Photograph.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/andhra-pradesh/congress-leader-questions-authenticity-of-old-photo-of-charminar/article4120520.ece

The ancient name of Hyderabad is Bhagya Nagar. The story goes like this : The temple was built in the memory of Bhagyawati, 'Harijan' mistress of the founder of Qutb Shahi dynasty. The temple was there forever and it was desectrated in 1979 after the siege of Kaba. 

On aside, I went to Hyderabad in 1947 for my honeymoon and if my memory serves me, I think i prayed there with my wife. 

rishi vyas
kangra, India
12/D-11
Nov 25, 2012
03:19 AM

I do not know if the temple was there or not but it is certain that at  one time in history there was no charminar either. Maybe we should restore heritage back to that point. Ridiculous and unnecessary controvercy!

Ashutosh Kaul
Toronto, Canada
13/D-24
Nov 25, 2012
06:23 AM

 The temple looks like a ugly pimple on a beautiful face. Please get rid of it ASAP.

Charminar is a protected monument and is a iconic symbol of our city.

Charminar must be given a face life, paan stains decorate every nook and corner of this architectural marvel.

And please use this opportunity to demolish scores of illegal shrines (temples, mosques, churches alike) that seem to spring up like mushrooms in the middle of roads, proving hinderance to smooth flow of traffic and causing inconvinence to people.

That would please both the Jihadis and Sanghi's alike.

What starts with a small idol soon ends up with a massive shrine with "historical importance", the modus operandi is all too familiar.

subba rao
dallas, United States
14/D-37
Nov 25, 2012
10:32 AM

 by ur logic, i conclude that it was okay to demolish babri masjid as ASI re[ports show thee was a temple before that...by the way did u publish any article justifying that....if no...please remove this article...moreover it sends a message that hind and islamic structures cannot co exist...a very communal and nauseating article to say the least

vaibhav
kolkata, India
15/D-47
Nov 25, 2012
11:51 AM

Rishi Vyas,

Eye witness accounts are always interesting. As you say

 I went to Hyderabad in 1947 for my honeymoon and if my memory serves me, I think i prayed there with my wife.

We are waiting to hear your accounts of what you witnessed as a teenager in Ayodhya in 1542.

R. Saroja
Bombay, India
16/D-69
Nov 25, 2012
01:52 PM

The north-west corner of Charminar is very narrow. Since 1974 I am seeing this and since that time at least a small temple existed abutting Charminar on the north-west side. There is a big local bus terminal , actually a bus stop on south-east side. Charminar is not like TajMahal where you have huge empty spaces on all four sides. There are encroachments on almost every side. One can see a Masjid on south-west side. At busy time, Charminar looks like a beehive,with spaces aroung it completely choked..

Now there are several issues here involved.

There are some two acre land in the heart of the city at the jains Mahavir hospital( lakdi-ka-pool area ) . This lease of this land  is what Mr.Owaisi wanted the Govt. to terminate and probably wanted for himself. According to Congress MLA's and others , CM Kiran kumar refused to sign on the file to end the lease period for Mahavir Hospital. This obviously angered Mr.Owaisi who is slightly smaller version of Bal Thackeray in Old City of Hyderabad ( he was insignificant and a small time politician in 1973 ) . Mr.Owaisi lives in style , in a grand style rather and had the courage to give a warning to the Govt. that muslims would become terrorists , right in the parliament !!!

Somehow it seems Mr.Kiran kumar Reddy summed up the courage to take on Mr.Owaisi by horns and the result is the sleeping temple issue which is so small in size and height that to go inside is difficult. Old City is already been very much backward in education and sanitation,roads etc., I do not know what Mr.Owaisi wants out of this present issue.The issue of temple has already been in the court since a long time..

bowenpalle venuraja gopal rao.
warangal, india
17/D-85
Nov 25, 2012
03:55 PM

 R Saroja >> We are waiting to hear your accounts of what you witnessed as a teenager in Ayodhya in 1542.

And we are awaiting your first hand eyewitness reports on how exactly the Aryans invaded India and crushed its indegenous dravidans, in circa 1500 BC... 

But wait.. the Time Machine has not been invented yet !!

Ramki
Delhi, India
18/D-87
Nov 25, 2012
03:59 PM

 Subba Rao >> The temple looks like a ugly pimple on a beautiful face. Please get rid of it ASAP.

I have a very good Muslim Friend. Let us name him as Saleem. He is a devout, conservative Muslim, who follows the holy Koran to every word. He is appaled that a few hundred million people in India worship gods made out of stone, with faces resembling monkeys, lions and elephants.

I have a very good agnostic friend of mine who is truly multicultural and makes a point to wish all his muslim friends on Eid and christian friends on XMas. Let us name him as Shiv. He is also a animal rights activist and he is appaled that during Bakrid, voiceless animals are slaughtered in very unclean ways (without adapting standard safe slaughtering practices that are common in such places like western europe)

Both Shiv and saleem stick to their beliefs and also believe that what they consider as "Ugly" cannot be imposed on the rest.

So, if you consider a Temple to be an ugly pimple on the face of Charminar, keep your belief with yourself and dont look at the place. As simple as that.

Ramki
Delhi, India
19/D-90
Nov 25, 2012
04:08 PM

 To all those who find the BEAUTY OF CHARMINAR being destroyed by the presence of Bhagyalakshmi temple near it,

Let me ask only one question...

A Open University, the largest University in India, which provides valuable higher education to people who cannot economically afford higher education through regular route, but want to pursue higher education through the Correspondence route, this Open University should be the present day temple of worship.

Should this open University (IGNOU) be named after a Tyrannical Fascist lady, who destroyed democracy in India , defiled our constitution through 18 month emergency, destroyed and wrecked all the institutional organs of Indian democracy , worked to flame insurgency in Punjab and did unimaginable harm to our nation?

I find this even more uglier..

Please rename the university (after some real national hero who fought for spread of education and social justice )and let us then talk about removing a non descript temple around some not so ancient monument of little relevance to 95% of the 150 -200 million Muslims of India..

Ramki
Delhi, India
20/D-107
Nov 25, 2012
04:54 PM

To those who rely on a dated photograph to prove that there was no temple abutting the Charminar before, do you realize that if you stand diagonally across a structure and photograph it, you can hid at least two sides? And since this photograph does exactly that and since the Charminar looks identical on all four sides, do you know exactly which side is shown in this picture?

Alakshyendra
Hyderabad, India
21/D-115
Nov 25, 2012
05:57 PM

Hang on, if you had a problem with the Babri Masjid demolition(as everyone on either side of the political spectrum with even an iota of intelligence would) you should ALSO have a problem with the destruction of this temple..
And unlike the babri masjid problem, this was not constructed OVER the Charminar either.
Let's not complicate issues here.The Razakars, deserve nothing fro the sensible people of india but contempt

Just Joe King
Gotham, India
22/D-116
Nov 25, 2012
06:05 PM

>> "Hang on, if you had a problem with the Babri Masjid demolition(as everyone on either side of the political spectrum with even an iota of intelligence would) you should ALSO have a problem with the destruction of this temple.." - Just Joe King

Hindus have a big heart. The temple can go elsewhere. Why stoop to the level of the mullahs?

There are thousands of temples in the country, but only one Charminar. 

The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
23/D-153
Nov 25, 2012
08:57 PM

 It seems the idiotic author knows nothing about the history of hyderabad and I wonder wether she even dared to visit the muslim dominated Charminar area .I am from hyderabad and know well the true story.There was a silakaram which existed from time immemorial and Bhagwati wife of Quli Qutub Shah used to offer prayers before that silakaram.When plague broke in Hyderabad Quli Qutub Shah built charminar to commemorate near  the site.That silakaram remained there  for centuries untill it was given shelter somewhere in 18th century.Government endownment records of last 200 years show its existence.When massive floods swept hyderabad due to Musi river overflowing terrified people both hindu and muslims offered prayers at the temple.In 1960's yes there was a road accident near the site as local bus lost control and rammed into the temple which was again reconstructed now with concrete material.The silakam has been there for ages and no one had any problem with it.All these pictures being showed by pseudo intellectuals are taken from side views which dont show the temple as all four minars are similar in nature.

MIM is playing dirty communal politics over teh temple.It is behaving as if it has great love for hyderabadi monuments.If it is then it should answer why there are about 800 ilelgal shops near charminar most of which pay bribes to MIM corporators to survive by violating rules.There is no harm in maintaining the temple near the charminar.Let  torists and muslims visit charminar and hindus will visit temple whcih anyway is in a corner.We can have true hyderababdi tezeeb and that would be halmark of our secularism

chinmay
hyderabad, Iceland
24/D-164
Nov 25, 2012
09:32 PM

 Chinmay >> MIM is playing dirty communal politics over teh temple.It is behaving as if it has great love for hyderabadi monuments

MIM is just like Kasab. It is just a pawn behind the dirty communal games. The real force behind all the games is the CON party. The party is desperate to get that 15-20 seats from AP, which all have to come only from telengana. And that will happen only if telengana movement is broken.

Just think of all the events that happened recently - this charminar-bhagyalakshmi temple issue, and then the Beef festival issue.. all have a same pattern.. Read between the lines..

Congress is getting ready to divide people to win elections. Just like did so many times before. And the photograph in The Hindu Newspaper is just one aspect of this game.

Ramki
Delhi, India
25/D-171
Nov 25, 2012
09:50 PM

 One thousand years back Ram came on the dream of one pious person Hyderabad that on his way to Srilanka to bring back Sita,he stayed at the same place where the Charminar stands.He urged him to build a temple for him there.Faith has no logic.Hence the temple should be built after demolishing Charminar.

Nasar Ahmed
Karikkudi, India
26/D-173
Nov 25, 2012
09:56 PM

 Congress wants minorities to feel insecure and do nothing.They want Muslims to vote for them for their security as they nowhere to go.It was Rajiv Gandhi who opened the gates of Babri Masjid that resulted in the destruction of the Masjid and his life!

What new story BJP would come out with now.One need to wait and see.This time it could the birth place of Lakshman or Hanuman.

Nasar Ahmed
Karikkudi, India
27/D-188
Nov 25, 2012
10:30 PM

What new story BJP would come out with now.One need to wait and see.This time it could the birth place of Lakshman or Hanuman.

Dont stop us at lowest level, we are eyeing Mecca and it has Shiva's Linga Inside.

Jaykumar
Ahmedabad, India
28/D-6
Nov 26, 2012
03:01 AM

Irreverent,

>> Why stoop to the level of the mullahs?

The "mullahs" have not gone to Char Minar and demolished the temple, have they? How come all your mullah analogies are so asinine?

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
29/D-12
Nov 26, 2012
07:49 AM

>> "The "mullahs" have not gone to Char Minar and demolished the temple, have they? " - Anwaar

Did I say or imply that? The goondas of your iconic leader have been running amok on the streets of Hyderabad. In contrast, the Hindus have shown immense patience. Yet, the apologists of Babar and Ghazni interpret any criticism as a challenge to demolish temples!! Someone take these jokers out of their Mughal-era time warp.

The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
30/D-16
Nov 26, 2012
09:19 AM

"What new story BJP would come out with now. One need to wait and see.This time it could the birth place of Lakshman or Hanuman." Nasar Ahmad

All religions are built on fairy-tales. In Muhammad's time, the kaaba in Mecca was a pagan temple with 365 idols. When Muhammad entered Mecca, he declared that the kaaba was actually a temple that the prophet Abraham had built and that it had been stolen by the pagans. He then desecrated the idols and took over the kaaba, converting it into an Islamic monument.

There is zero hsitorical evidence for the existence of Abraham or Moses -  we have extensive historical records from the Egyptians, and had a Pharoah and his army been drowned by tidal waves etc., there would have been some record of it. But there is none, and Biblical scholars today have concluded that both Abraham and Moses are literary figures rather than historical figures. In fact the story of Moses in the Old Testament seems to be a twice-told tale based on Sumerian legends.

In any case, there is absolutely no evidence that the kaaba was once a Jewish temple, let alone one built by Abraham. Nevertheless, millions of people travel to Mecca and participate in this fairy-tale. The fictional story of Moses is also repeated several times in the Koran, which a billion people have been led to believe is the infallible word of God in which even punctuation marks have not been changed since it was revealed to Muhammad by a winged angel named Gabriel (no evidence for the existence of winged angels, named Gabriel, Jibril or anything else, has ever been found, alas).

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/3529/did-moses-live

http://religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/archeology.htm

The Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem is built on the spot where Muhammad apparently traveled to from Mecca on a winged horse called Buraq. Buraq is also said to have taken Muhammad to the "farthest heavens" where he met with all the previous Old Testament prophets and with Allah before returning to Mecca. Alas, no winged horse has ever been documented in history, let alone one named Buraq. But a billion people insist this story is true, and that Al-Aqsa is ground made sacred by Buraq's journey.

One day, these stories of Ram and Lakshman, Abraham and Buraq will be filed in the fiction section of our book-stores. Until that time, one man's religion is another man's absurd fairy-tale.

Fedup Indian
Hyderabad, India
31/D-21
Nov 26, 2012
09:56 AM

Irreverent,

>> "The goondas of your iconic leader,",...." the apologists of Babar and Ghazni,".... "Someone take these jokers out of their Mughal-era time warp."

Hate is oozing out of every pore in your body! You truly are a sicko!

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
32/D-22
Nov 26, 2012
10:01 AM

A new temple has no business being erected right under the nose of another religion's monument, that too a historic one. All the governments of AP have failed its citizens in allowing this sensitive issue to fester. The Muslim party of Hyd, MIM, has pathetically let down its supporters by not getting this removed much earlier when it was still just a dinky little vermilion smear on a pole(metaphorically speaking). Don't people in our country ever learn? This is a cynical political game now, nothing to do with people's faiths.

Sriram N
Bangalore, India
33/D-25
Nov 26, 2012
10:14 AM

>> ""The goondas of your iconic leader,",...." the apologists of Babar and Ghazni,".... "Someone take these jokers out of their Mughal-era time warp."
>>>> 'Hate is oozing out of every pore in your body!" - Anwaar

Don't blame the messengeer. At least three things that jokers like you need to do:

1. Change your pied-pipers; listen to leaders who are truly secular.

2. Put an end to your sorry defence of extremists like Babar, Ghazni, Ishrat, Good Taliban etc.

3. Step out of the Mughal era time warp. This is 21st century.

The results are not guaranteed, but these will certainly help.

The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
34/D-28
Nov 26, 2012
10:25 AM

Irreverent,

>> At least three things that jokers like you need to do......

This hate crazed genocidist is now going to give us advice!!! What a moron!

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
35/D-33
Nov 26, 2012
11:00 AM

 Irreverent Indian,

Now that one of your secular icons (Kasab) has been hanged, why are you smearing Ishrat's name? Come with facts to support your allegations.

R. Saroja
Bombay, India
36/D-39
Nov 26, 2012
11:30 AM

 Now that one of your secular icons (Kasab) has been hanged, why are you smearing Ishrat's name? "
Bi Saroja

It is Ihrat who smeared her own name .
Lashkr-e Thyba of Hafiz Saeed exhorted the Momins to celbrate the Shadat of Islam as she was the Module Head who was on mission to liquidate Modi .
Even IB,Mahrashtra ,Karnatka,Andhra abd Kerela Police Forces sent the similar warnings to Gujrat Police .Even in its submissions to courts in Gujarat the Law Ministry's of UPA's Legal Advisor in Gurat submiited to the Courts.He Home Minstery of Delhi Sarkar to filled exactly the similar affidavit that IB had issued advisory to the effect that Ishrat Module was on very dangerous mission .
When all this came in open the UPA sarkar sacked the Law Officer in Gujarat and post haste withdrew the its past Advisories .And filed a fresh totally advisory too .
Mamdam Saroja better be informed please though you are always informed .
But in 2012 UPA Govt sacked the

ASHOK KUMAR GHAI
Mumbai, India
37/D-44
Nov 26, 2012
11:59 AM
R. Saroja
Bombay, India
38/D-46
Nov 26, 2012
12:23 PM

Hinduism is extremely liberal in its philosophy of - live and let live. It welcomes multitude of paths to reach the one Brahman, supports the many manifestations and messengers of the one Brahman. It even tolerates atheism as one of its schools of thoughts as a first step to understand God. “Vasudevo kutumbakam” says the Rig Veda which means the whole world is one family.


So secularism is just another word for Hinduism. Just as fire and its heat are inseparable, so is Hinduism and secularism.


What is wrong then in having a temple for secularism adjacent to a historical monument like Charminar ? In fact all right thinking Indians should support the construction of many such temples as they are the symbols of secularism. The many people who come to see the historical structures will get inspired by also visiting the temples of secularism adjacent to them. This is just another way to promote secularism among the masses especially those who do not believe in diversity of opinions and beliefs.

I fail to see any reason why there should be a controversy at all of a temple existing next to the Charminar.

Arun Kumar
London, United Kingdom
39/D-61
Nov 26, 2012
01:16 PM

 @Cmon Sarojoa, please stop painting all terrorists as innocent victims!!! What is wrong with you people??

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2004-07-14/india/27158324_1_ishrat-jehan-lashkar-woman-activist

Here is a snippet from Lashkar's own website!!! (proclaiming Ishrat the Shaheed!!)

"Ishrat was with her husband, sitting on the front seat of the car," said the newspaper report published in the Jamat-ul-Dawa website, the new name of Markaz-ad-Dawa Wal Arshad (parent organisation of the LeT),

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ishrat-jahan-was-part-of-let-terror-module-gk-pillai/1/161264.html

Now if you dont trust Lashkar e Toiba here is another source-  

Union home secretary G.K. Pillai said that slain teenager Ishrat Jahan was part of a Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) sleeper module.!!

GK Pillai was Union home secretary of Indian republic!!! - that too part of 'secular' Congress goverment!! 

It is rather pathetic seeing people like you shamelessly supporting terrorists and denying the very existence of Islamist terrorists in India..... Shame on you..... 

Prasanth
Melbourne, Australia
40/D-66
Nov 26, 2012
01:46 PM

Prasanth,

Every probe has established that the encounter was fake. Have a look at tehelka.com/story_main42.asp . Now the question is if Ishrat and others were jehadis on a mission to kill Modi, and then they were in custody,(which has been established by the probes) why were they not put on trial and instead executed? About what GK Pillai said etc. I really feel that they should all be interrogated. I am all for truth coming out. Labelling someone jehadi and then executing that person is not the right way of dealing with Islamist threat, which is very real. At this rate, tomorrow someone will label me a jehadi for what I post. 

Now have I even questioned the arrest of Jundal or Kazmi or I forget the name, the one who was deported from Saudi? All I ask is, if they are innocent (as many claim Kazmi to be), they should be compensated and rehabilitated. That is how it should be. 

R. Saroja
Bombay, India
41/D-73
Nov 26, 2012
02:40 PM

@ Now dont try to change the topic- I am not debating whether that encounter was fake or not.... thats a different topic all together... Was Ishrat a Lashkar sleeper terrorist???
To answer that question one has to go back to 2004- After the death of Ishrat and her friends, Lashkar e Taiba though their website AND through their urdu printed magazine wrote a eulogy for Ishrat the shaheed!! That's Lashkar's standard modus operandi. They have done it before when their important fighters die in Kashmir.
But by then islamist organisations in India along with some NGOs and leftist organisations started a campaign proclaiming innocence of Ishrat and Javed Shaikh (her husband as per Lashkar website). The encounter itself might have been fake, hence government started feeling the heat. Lashkar cunningly withdrew the eulogy from their website!!! So Laskhar along with the help of people like YOU started propaganda to portray Isharat as innocent!
And When people like GK Pillai says Ishrat was a terrorist (which corroborates Lashkar's own admission) , there can be no doubt in the fact that Ishrat was indeed a terrorist. Whether it can be proved in a court or not is a different matter. But any intelligent person can by now assume that Ishrat was a terrorist. But people like you are helping a terrorist organisation (Lashkar) by proclaiming Isharat was innocent.
Now coming to the second question- is it right to kill terrorists in fake encounters? Is it better to arrest them and try them?
A very complex question with no yes or no answer. Terrorists like Osama Bin Laden, Hafiz Saeed, or even Dawood Ibrahim cannot be captured (or even if captured , cannot be tried) for obvious reasons. If Jailed they will be obvious targets for kandahar style hijack incidents endangering lives of innocent Rupan Katyals! So assassinating them will be the more practical solution.
But people like Ishrat, Kazmi, Jundal etc must be arrested and tried- ideally. But India being India, we simply don’t have policemen with modern investigative skills or resources. Our policemen still use Mughal era infrastructure and training to investigate terror cases. No wonder almost all terror cases are thrown out by supreme courts and so called ‘innocent muslim' youths walk out. In USA almost all terror suspect plead guilty in court, because their criminal justice system is so professional and their case is watertight. So a Pakistani terrorist Shahzad (who try to blow up a NY street) plead guilty in a US court but another Pakistani terrorist Ajmal Kasab plead INNOCENT in an Indian court!!!!!! Have you ever heard about an Indian terrorist pleading guilty in Indian courts? Nop... ....Almost all of them eventually set free by our courts because policemen don’t have the skills to nail the terrorist in a court of law!!! So some IB officers and Gujarat policemen decided it is better to eliminate Ishrat and other pakistani terrorists in an encounter rather than take them to a court (court probably set them free after 6 years)....
So there........ the only solution is to setup many IIM style world-class police investigation institutes with foreign faculties. Train Policemen with the help of FBI etc. But will that happen in India?? Don’t know!!


 

Prasanth
Melbourne, Australia
42/D-79
Nov 26, 2012
03:17 PM

Prasanth,

>> Lashkar e Taiba though their website AND through their urdu printed magazine wrote a eulogy for Ishrat the shaheed.

Terrorist groups race with each other to claim some operational ownership. LeT first heard from Indian police reports that Ishrat had terrorist connections and went ahead and claimed her. Later they denied it. Ahmedabad Magistrate Tamang, who carried out the most thorough inquest, categorically denied any link between Ishrat and any terrorist group.

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
43/D-80
Nov 26, 2012
03:24 PM

 Prashant,

You say that "we do not have policemen with modern investigative skills or resources" which I do not dispute, but then you want to accept that they somehow  manage to catch the wrong doers but are unable to present a case in court, strange. In the 26/11 attacks, we did take the help of FBI www.indianexpress.com/news/unarmed-mumbai-cops-led-to-2611-mayhem-fbi/645326 . I believe Chidambaram has done some good work in modernizing and establishing NIA. Now even in this 26/11 case, which the whole world was watching, the mumbai police wanted to implicate Fahim Ansari and Sabauddin Ahmed. FBI was not interested, courts acquitted them and the story simply does not fit in. Now we really have the prize catch of Jundal, whom Pakistan tried to get from Saudi. 

I support every effort towards police reforms and professionalizing the police force. Tamang took three weeks to come to his conclusions. Ashish Khetan single handedly got more evidence that ultimately nailed the Naroda Patiya criminals than SIT with all the state machinery at its disposal. But killing innocents after labelling them terrorists is not done. In the coming days, more and more truth will tumble out as more cases are being heard in Gujarat. I admire American FBI. and their judicial system. There the politicians can not influence or bring about remission in the sentences. Here people on life sentence also come out. eg Gopal Godse came out.

R. Saroja
Bombay, India
44/D-91
Nov 26, 2012
05:10 PM

@Saroja- Yes, I did say that our policemen lack modern investigative skills and our criminal prosecution system simply is not professional enough- hence our prosecutors are unable to make the terrorists plead guilty.
But that does not mean our policemen and intelligent officers are dimwit retards!! In fact most of our IPS officers and IB officers are highly intelligent & well educated people. The best of IPS officers get selected to IB, RAW etc. So I am sure they are catching many REAL terrorists (like Kazmi, Ishrat, Jundal etc) but due to the lack of a professional criminal prosecution SYSTEM they are unable to secure convictions. For 26/11 investigation India did take some help from FBI , mostly in tracking/deciphering Skype calls and some financial trails, that’s all. After all Fahim Ansari did provide SIM cards to Lashkar agents (IB gave the SIM cards to Ansari using undercover agents)... but yet our system could not convict Ansari, I would not call him innocent...far from it. ......I suspect most 'youths' coming out of Jails are not innocent.
For example, take the case of Shahid Bilal (Huji operative) of Hyderabad, Andhra. Bilal was a founding member of Huji in India and was assassinated in Karachi by RAW. Now a brother of Bilal Majid was arrested by Andhra police for another blast case and was allegedly tortured in Jail few years ago. Police could not secure a conviction in court and court set him free and ordered government to provide monetary compensation. All Muslim organisations and people like YOU hailed this verdict. But Majid fled to Saudi Arabia shortly without collecting money from Govt. Now Majid is believed to be the ISI handler of Abu Jundal in Saudi Arabia!!! Now Indian government is trying to extradite Majid from Saudi !!!! Funny fact is our policemen always knew Majid was an ISI terrorist and even managed to put him in jail for some time. But courts set him free AND asked govt to give him few lakhs rupees as compensation!!! I suspect most other freed 'innocent' Muslim youth are like Majid.....
@Anwar- You say Lashkar claimed Ishrat falsely!! OK, I assume our home secretary GK Pillai is a Lashkar agent and was trying to give them credit by saying Ishrat was a terrorist????? ?) LOL
 

Prasanth
Melbourne, Australia
45/D-96
Nov 26, 2012
06:02 PM

Prasanth,

I will stand by innocence of Ishrat and of Khwaja Yunus, who was killed in police custody in Mumbai. About others I really do not know. I will inform myself of the facts and get back to you in some future thread. Even in 'entrapment' cases US hands heavier sentences than Indian courts do in 'real' cases. Thanks for the information.

R. Saroja
Bombay, India
46/D-102
Nov 26, 2012
06:30 PM

 D-73/41 well argued Prasanth. I liked your post.

sandilya
Chennai, India
47/D-115
Nov 26, 2012
09:07 PM

"Ashish Khetan single handedly got more evidence that ultimately nailed the Naroda Patiya criminals than SIT with all the state machinery at its disposal"

can you tell our friends on this blog how many times this investigator Ashish Ketam avoided personnel appearance along with his video tape before Nanavathi commission? Anyone can anser this "Why Ashish Did So" need not to be Saroja Mami only...

Same was very much available on all news channel highlgihting his own achivement of investigating the whole episode and this will bring surprise to every one that this fellow was readily available for SIT in Gandhinagar but not to Nanavathi Commission in Ahmedabad. I still rememebr congress sympathising news paper Diya Bhaskar even went on publishing news that Ashish Ketan have been given ultimatem for appearing before commission....

Catch It!!!!

Jaykumar
Ahmedabad, India
48/D-118
Nov 26, 2012
09:19 PM

 Jaykumar,

The tapes also contained serious allegations against the functioning of the Nanavati–Shah commission. The special public prosecutor for the Gujarat government, Arvind Pandya, told me the commission was partisan towards Modi, and its proceedings were compromised. After the exposé, the commission issued a statement that it would summon the tapes and look into them. But they never asked TEHELKA for the tapes. Nor did they conduct any inquiry.

www.tehelka.com/story_main53.asp

R. Saroja
Bombay, India
49/D-125
Nov 26, 2012
10:12 PM

 >> "I will stand by innocence of Ishrat and of Khwaja Yunus, who was killed in police custody in Mumbai." - Saroja

Why? Because they were Muslims? Or, is that statement to simply concede that you have no answers to Prashant's arguments, but still want to stick to your "secular rationale"?

Shoddy attempts are made to obfuscate the issue when Muslims are on rampage in Godhra, Hyderabad, Meerut, Assam, you name it. How long are we going to keep our eyes close to the rabid communalization of a significant 15% population

Self-styled sickulars like you cause more damage to the country that those terrorists. Here is letter from another self-styled sickulars asking the Muslims to vote for "secular' candidate, "preferably muslims". It is common knowledge how various local Islamic heads make "recommendations' to the community. In remote areas, political ratification is provided during azaan - on microphone. So much for secularism.

www.milligazette.com/news/4577-syed-shahabuddin-clarifies-his-stand-on-modi-and-gujarat-elections-indian-muslims-news

I have no doubt that even Kasab would have been defended by these jokers if he was not a Pakistani. Remember the "RSS ki saazish" escape-act that never took off? Would it have got more attention if Kasab was an Indian? When they get an opportunity, even the most loved celebrities like Azharuddin, Salman and Sanjay Dutt claim that they are being harassed because of their religion (or mother being a Muslim). Ever wondered why it is only the Muslims who struggle to integrate in cross-cultural society? Ever wondered why any dissenting voice have to be summarily labelled as "communal" (be it Jews, Hindus, Christians) when one has to  defend any Muslim issue?

The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
50/D-127
Nov 26, 2012
10:27 PM

The tapes also contained serious allegations against the functioning of the Nanavati–Shah commission.

Tape what Nanavathi Commission was looking for was on Naroda Patia as per the news paper of those days for which he was asked to appear for explantion...Now serious allegation is nothing new for Nanavatahi, for Ashish and Theleka had serious reservation towards SIT at later point of time but rejoiced when SIT asked Modi to appear before it.

Jaykumar
Ahmedabad, India
51/D-128
Nov 26, 2012
10:28 PM

 >> "Ahmedabad Magistrate Tamang, who carried out the most thorough inquest, categorically denied any link between Ishrat and any terrorist group." - Anwaar

Is that the best that a you can come up with in defence of your favorite jihadi? While you were spreading your noble notions of secularism on other platforms, the High Court rejected the report for the motives ascribed and the hasty manner in which it was prepared. 

The mullah apologists are yet to answer what Ishrat was doing with the other two alleged Pakistanis, Amjad Ali Rana and Zeeshan Johar. Their only contention has been that they were Indians, but no counter-prof presented.

I have not read it but am 110% sure that nowhere does the Koran ask its followers to rise in teh defense of terrorists. Why do the Muslim Indians feel obligated to do so?

The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
52/D-138
Nov 26, 2012
11:41 PM

Irreverent Indian,

This is what I had posted in this forum On Khwaja Yunus, who was arrested in Ghatkopar Blast case of Dec 2002, and was tortured to death -  www.outlookindia.com/feedbacks.aspx 

is that statement to simply concede that you have no answers to Prashant's arguments

I have acknowleged that I do not understand all the cases that he mentions.

Is it your case that radicalization of a section of muslims is to dealt by labelling and jilling of innocents? Find a fault in the link posted

R. Saroja
Bombay, India
53/D-1
Nov 27, 2012
12:06 AM

@ Saroja

Let me use your own phrase, with a little modification:

Sometimes one wonders whether the seculars are seriously interested in getting to the bottom of the case or merely interested in defending whatever theory they had first thought of, unable to change track in face of new facts coming to light.

>> "Is it your case that radicalization of a section of muslims is to dealt by labelling and jilling of innocents?"

Obviously not. But, how come the sickulars are so cock-sure about the innocence of the accused, almost immediately after they are nabbed or killed? Be it Batla, Ishrat or any other case involving Muslim terrorists, these jokers would attempt to discredit even the facts from the Home Ministry presided upon by a secular, pro-Muslim government.

If Muslims and seculars refuse to acknowledge the growign radicalization of Indian Muslims, don't expect others to keep their eyes shut.

The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
54/D-2
Nov 27, 2012
12:13 AM

Irreverent >>The mullah apologists are yet to answer what Ishrat was doing with the other two alleged Pakistanis

It is not just Tamang report. The SIT headed by appointed by HC also held the encounter fake and that the four were killed before the "encounter " date. Clearly you have got unhinged by the death of one of your two secular ideals.

I don't know about Koran and I am not a muslim either. But it is common humanity to come to the defence of innocents.

R. Saroja
Bombay, India
55/D-4
Nov 27, 2012
12:25 AM

 >> "But it is common humanity to come to the defence of innocents." -  Saroja

And, who gives the certificate of innocence? Sickulars? 

And, why does this "humanity" get aroused only in case of Muslims? Worse still, why this sense of humanity is denied to non-Muslims, be it Godhra, Azad, Rajbala etc?

The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
56/D-6
Nov 27, 2012
12:36 AM

#53 

>>> But, how come the sickulars are so cock-sure about the innocence of the accused, almost immediately after they are nabbed or killed?

I have never objected to anyone being arrested on suspicion, provided a proper investigation is speedily conducted and if found innocent, rehabilitation and compensation is made. But it is true that when I first heard of Ishrat encounter, I knew it had to be fake. This is not a proof which has been established by Tamang as well as by Verma SIT report.It is just the confidence that I have in my understanding of certain sick minds behind the killings.

Many seculars are very well aware of radicalization among muslims, and according to Javed Anand one of the reasons why many secular hindus do not condemn muslim extremism vigorously is because they feel guilty about attrocities against muslims. He calls for everyone to condemn extremism of every hue vigorously. 

I am not sure that you can accuse me of being unable to change track in face of new facts coming to light. On the contrary I am quite gullible but am aware of it. 

R. Saroja
Bombay, India
57/D-7
Nov 27, 2012
01:02 AM
Rajesh
Bangalore, India
58/D-8
Nov 27, 2012
01:12 AM

 Be it Batla, Ishrat or any other case involving Muslim terrorists, these jokers would attempt to discredit even the facts from the Home Ministry presided upon by a secular, pro-Muslim government.

Have you seen the cover of 'Eminent Historians' by Arun Shourie ? It perfectly fits these idiots..

Rajesh
Bangalore, India
59/D-10
Nov 27, 2012
01:23 AM

 >>>And, why does this "humanity" get aroused only in case of Muslims?

Clearly not. You are prejudiced. Have a look at www.outlookindia.com/feedbacks.aspx

R. Saroja
Bombay, India
60/D-13
Nov 27, 2012
03:04 AM

Irreverent,

>>  the High Court rejected the report  for the motives ascribed and the hasty manner in which it was prepared.

You are a liar! The Gujarat High Court granted a stay on the report of the Ahmedabad Metropolitan Magistrate, S.P. Tamang, declaring the June 2004 police encounter with Ishrat Jehan and three others “fake”. This was done on technical grounds, namely that the High Court was already seized of the matter. The High Court, however, allowed the report to be submitted before the three-member Special Investigation Team (SIT).

>> The mullah apologists are yet to answer what Ishrat was doing ....

Those questions would have been easier to answer if they had not been "encountered". Your using words like "mullah apologists" show a repugnant and execrable frame of mind but are not surprising coming from a self-confessed genocide proponent.

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
61/D-15
Nov 27, 2012
03:45 AM

Irreverent,

>> And, who gives the certificate of innocence? Sickulars?

A person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. For hate-crazed morons like you however a Muslim is guilty from the start. He is guilty even if proved innocent!

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
62/D-18
Nov 27, 2012
04:24 AM

>> A person is presumed innocent until proven guilty

Except Modi and Savarkar.

Whats InAName
San Francisco, United States
63/D-20
Nov 27, 2012
04:40 AM

>> It is not just Tamang report. The SIT headed by appointed by HC also held the encounter fake and that the four were killed before the "encounter " date.

Is this your response to

The mullah apologists are yet to answer what Ishrat was doing with the other two alleged Pakistanis

When the question clearly is about Ishrat's presence and company, you start talking about the encounter.

You give physicists a real bad name, painting them as illogical and incoherent.

Whats InAName
San Francisco, United States
64/D-25
Nov 27, 2012
06:45 AM

Kafi Ladna Jagdna oo gaya..Cahalo lets see what Medha Patker is doing.....

Very good link by Kranti Sena..It has got pdf of mail correspondence attached...in this link and padne ke bhaad aake kuli ki kuli rahe jayegi.....

http://bhagatsinghkrantisena.blogspot.com/2012/05/medha-patkar-exposed.html

Like Medha Patker how many are there in our country US only can tell..."In God We Trust"....

Jaykumar
Ahmedabad, India
65/D-33
Nov 27, 2012
08:10 AM

 Anwaar,

A person is presumed innocent until proven guilty

Except in the case of Vinod Rai whose integrity cannot be assumed unless he proves it. Please be consistent.

Bonita
Chennai, India
66/D-40
Nov 27, 2012
09:46 AM

@Saroja-OK, may your faith save you! I don’t want to question your beliefs!! It seems unshakable under rational questions!


@Sandilya – Thanks

@Irrelevant & whats inaname - What is the point in arguing with people whose basic thought process seemed to be based on “faith” rather than rational thought & common sense!! Anwar ,Saroja etc probably know too well that Ishrat in all likelihood was a terrorist. But accepting so would burst the bubbly universe they built over the years….. You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep..can you?
There was an article in Guardian about Gujrat and Narendra Modi. Here is a snippet
From Guardian article published last week.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/19/david-cameron-india-narendra-modi
 

“At the end of February 2002, a train carrying Hindu pilgrims caught fire in the Gujarati town of Godhra. At the time, it was widely reported that the blaze, which killed 59 passengers, had been caused by Muslims; it has since been suggested that it may have been an accident.”


But the truth is, a court CONVICTED 36 muslims in Godhra for burning the train in Feb 2011 The convicts are currently serving their life sentences in a Gujrat Jail. The Hindu paper Feb 2011: “judge P.R. Patel said all the 31 accused were held guilty on two major counts — Section 120B (criminal conspiracy) and 302 (murder) of the Indian Penal Code.”
Now- the Guardian writer Aditya Chakraborty (economics leader writer for the Guardian) is not an ill informed person or stupid. He knows very well that a acourt actually convicted Muslims for burning the train and ‘fire by accident’ is a discredited theory. But he will not accept the truth, because if he tells the truth that will be against everything he & Guardian stood for the last 12 years or so (since Godhra carnage). So they are repeating the same lie!!! The ‘secular’ readers of Guardian too probably realise that this is a lie but they would rather BELIVE a lie than hear the truth –which is so inconvenient!! To my knowledge Guardian has not retracted or apologized for this lie and is unlikely to do so in future. Same with the terror deniers in India. They are hopeless!
 

Prasanth
Melbourne, Australia
67/D-41
Nov 27, 2012
09:59 AM

>> "Your using words like "mullah apologists" show a repugnant and execrable frame of mind" - Anwaar

1. One should have no qualms about using that term for apologists of Jihadis and Islamofascists.

2. The jokers who liberally use terms like guttersinpes, Hitler, Hindutva etc. should not preach us on decency. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
68/D-42
Nov 27, 2012
10:08 AM

>>Terrorist groups race with each other to claim some operational ownership.

Really? And what operation was this? The operation of getting killed in a fake encounter? Just justifications are so pathetic!

RSM
Delhi, India
69/D-44
Nov 27, 2012
10:17 AM

>> If you can't take it, don't dish it out

The jehadis are not satisfied with first claims. They want exclusive claims, to both dish it out, as well as whine like stuck pigs if others give back.

Whats InAName
San Francisco, United States
70/D-61
Nov 27, 2012
01:17 PM

Bonita,

>>>> A person is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
>> Except in the case of Vinod Rai whose integrity cannot be assumed unless he proves it.

He cannot be called guilty. But asking whether he has committed errors or has a political  agenda is perfectly legitimate. Let the process play itself out. Your defending Vinod Rai is okay, but don't you think you are overdoing it?

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
71/D-62
Nov 27, 2012
01:20 PM

 PRASANTH
MELBOURNE,
Guardian and The Hindu are colonial cousins and masters of glossing and varnishing if it is about Muslim  misdeeds. Most things British I like except this liar Guardian. It is antithesis of general British ethos of fairness and honesty.

BTW, Prasanth, did you point out to Guardian their white lie?

sandilya
Chennai, India
72/D-64
Nov 27, 2012
01:32 PM

Irreverent,

 >>  apologists of Jihadis and Islamofascists.

For you all Muslims are Jihadis and Islamofascists. Even the worst VHP-ites are not as full of hate as you.

>>  use terms like guttersinpes, Hitler, Hindutva etc.

Show me a single example where I have used those terms inappropriately. I would never use any of those terms for anyone just because he is a Hindu or just because he disagrees with me.

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
73/D-65
Nov 27, 2012
01:35 PM

Sandilya,

>> Guardian and The Hindu are colonial cousins and masters of glossing and varnishing if it is about Muslim misdeeds.

That is just rubbish. They are both respectable news papers.

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
74/D-67
Nov 27, 2012
01:41 PM

Prasanth,

>> Anwar ,Saroja etc probably know too well that Ishrat in all likelihood was a terrorist.

A silly comment! You need to introspect yourself on how you got yourself so convinced that this 19 year old college girl from Mumbai was a terrorist.

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
75/D-68
Nov 27, 2012
01:58 PM

 >> "You need to introspect yourself on how you got yourself so convinced that this 19 year old college girl from Mumbai was a terrorist." - Anwaar

Stupid argument!! How old was Kasab when he entered the jihad school? Osama ji started at 22. Omar Khadr was 15 years old. There are ample reports of 10-15 year olds taking to jihad in Pakistan and Afghanistan. What could have been the average age of those resorting to intafada in Kashmir?

What was this "college girl" doing with alleged Pakistanis and a convert with (at least) two passports? 

The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
76/D-69
Nov 27, 2012
02:02 PM

 Anwaar,

But asking whether he has committed errors or has a political agenda is perfectly legitimate.

If the  CAG has erred, dispute his report on facts. Unfortunately, this is not the approach of those whom his reports have made uncomfortable. Since his reports cannot be faulted on substance, the only alternative is to make aspersions on his integrity and ascribe political motives. Needless to say, no one has come out with any proof or evidence to substantiate these allegations that Vinod Rai has a political agenda. If you have some please share it with the rest of us.

i said earlier and I repeat - If you can't shake a witness' evidence, try and discredit him so as to weaken the evidentiary value of his testimony. That unfortunately, is what your party of choice and you are doing.

Bonita
Chennai, India