ROY is stuck in her own narrative of what constitutes fair and unfair.
Her mantra of dalits, adivasis, muslims is her personal mantra.
She demeans all those who get raped and dont belong to the Roy club of misfortune.
She gets heard and read and provokes.
She is a bit of a bitter clown and so we do not laugh at her but rail at her.
The game will go on because she is who she is at a point in our history.... Go read Madhu Kishwar instead if your insides are curdling after Roy onslaught for a little more sense..
Has Arundhati Roy ever written on the rampant sexuality indulged in by the Catholic clergy of Kerala?Being a conservative Catholic herself,she thinks that the Catholic priests have the divine right to indulge in the worst kind of sexual assaults on young nuns in the church.Take this case of Abhaya murder.It has taken sixteen long years to get courage to arrest the two Catholic priests,who sexually assaulted the young nun Abhaya and then murdered her and threw her body into a well.All along they spread the canard that the nun had committed suicide.Neither the Congress nor the Communists when in power had no guts to initiate investigation into this case.Infact,a Catholic Supreme court judge even tried to interfere in the forencic analysis.This hate filled Arundhati Roy, whose mother is a Keralite never wrote a line on this dastardly act of Catholic priests.Now,with this Delhi rape and murder incident shaking the nation,there will be more stringent laws against rape.But will the authorities have the guts to take action against the Catholic priests who live in fortified seminaries?The Pope himself apologised for rampant child abuse in the Catholic church of USA.But here in India the all powerful Church Church is beyond any legal actions.
Aru has a point when she says that theres no public anger /outrage against atrocities on tribal women and rural dalit woment, which is pertinent and valid and which should be taken seriously. But the idiot in her comes out when she says that the present outrage is only because some low class, illiterates (or semi literates) have committed it against an "upper class" lady. Was this the first one among its kind and that too happening in the nation's capital ? obviously no, no ? and what about th epublic awareness ? Or the media's or intellectuals' role in covering such crimes against women ? Irrespective of caste or class its just agression of some perverts against the vulnerable and nothing more. I dont know how Aru takes it if some pervert, if happens to be an illiterate/"low class", pinches her in the public. Oh, poor me, our champion may be cosily sitting in and driving her vehicle. I tell you, otherwise she definitely would have come to the defense of the so called middle class women too, no ? :)
Anyway, thank you Aru for making some valid points, though the replies themselves dont in anyway offer any sol, what so ever, on how to mitigate them
People in this forum are only validating her stand by abusing her.
Arandrathi Roy’s comments on the rape and the arguments they caused are interesting as I have heard the same, it’s a middle class issue, comments from another left wing Indian. It is very important what Roy says about rape being an everyday, unremarked, unprotected reality for poor women, low caste women and ethnic minority women. But why should that be counterpoised to or lessen support for the students on the streets of Dheli being battered and tear gassed in their efforts to fight oppression? So what if the movement has begun with students? So did 1968. This is not the point. This is a genuine movement of the victims of real oppression and its origins reflect the same tensions as did the origins of second wave feminism AND the reality of combined and uneven development in India today. Even if as Roy suspects it will, nothing more than changes in laws around rape come from it, there is any reason to attack it — for example equal pay laws here don’t protect everyone but are an advance; smashing apartheid didn’t break capitalism but is an advance. Roy is being ultra left and making the young women in the struggle angry with her dismissal of them. The movement will increasingly face the key tension—does it settle for equality with men in a stinking system and therefore betray the workers and poor? Or does it fight for liberation for all which means challenging capitalism to gain economic equality which underpins liberation. The issue of leadership is one of being genuinely committed to fight for every reform and to oppose every bit of harassment and violence against women. Come on Roy, get into the fight… it needs the left.
Arunditti Roy by putting forth her "poverty" argument is actully justifying the use of rape as an instrumrnt for the assertion of the "identity" of the subaltern classes.` If a man chooses to rape, it is a willed action and the law must be invoked to punish him. Arunditti Roy is in a perverse way arguing that such barbaric assertions of "identity" by poverty striken youth presumably agasinst womren from a more priviledged background is understandable and deserves consideration. Let us go one step further and see what casdtes these young men belong to and then you have law according to castes operatingh in India. This kind of fake liberalism has caused enouhh damage and needs to be contested from every platform.
[[There is only one way of dealing with these idiots who live in the 60s notion of poverty being a virtuous symbol of honesty, integrity and values (and all rich being villanous usurpers) - ameliorate the very poverty that feeds oxygen to these jokers.]]
For sick minds like Arundhati, poverty is a virtue only as long as the sufferers are others. Not if it afflicts them.
There is an argument put forward that poverty striken young men are doing the rapes and the root cause is their poverty.
Even if we agree to this warped view, let me ask one thing to the left liberals - why is there so much poverty in India?
Because, our entire governance is focussed not on economic growth, investment in physical and social infrastructure etc but focussed on distributing scare public money as freebies to win votes.
We need a national program to build schools and hospitals in every village of india, to ensure every house in india has atleast 3-4 hours of electricity and so on. But we are not doing that, we are only devising laws like NREGA to distribute free money to people, that is also done through middlemen (read as CONgress party workers).
A welfare state without wealth will never remove poverty. A enterprising growth economy is the best solution to keep all those angry young men in job and also engage and employ young girls and thus ensure that the gender dialogue is about growth and progress and not about other illegal beastalities.
@ Usha (27D-205),
I believe you are a woman. You, me , and every right thinking person in India is against the feudal fraud called Arundathi Roy and her abusive rabble rousing ways. But kindly refrain from posting like what you mentioned. Probably you did not really mean it but problem is people like A.Roy and her cult folks will immediately use this as an opportunity to all all those against A.Roy and her warped world view as rapists.
I would dare say that what really A.Roy needs is this:
Give A.Roy an offer - a flight ticket to Mogadishu (capital of Somalia) or Pyongang (capital of North korea) and 50000 euro in local currency. Ask her to go there. These two nations -somalia and north korea are respectively anarchic and socialist/anti capitalist/anticorporatist and so are the closest nations to confirm to the world view of Arundathi roy. Let Arundathi roy go there, live for say 12 months and enlighten us with essays on how life is so good in these two places.
And if A.Roy does not accept this offer, then also leave her - but given the way she uses mainstream media like outlook to propagate dangerous ideas like secession of kashmir, it is necessary that we have a special tax levied on those media houses that indulge and celebrate rabble rousing. That way, we ensure that freedom of speech is not restricted - at same time rabble rousers pay up for the law and order mess they tend to create.
And meanwhile let all right thinking persons expose this feudal humbug fraud that A.Roy is...
@ Usha (D-102/29)
I understand your POV on Arundhati. There are very good reasons that she is ignored even by the leftist intellectuals.
However: To be fair, some of her arguments are valid and thought provoking. It is sad that her sheer contempt for anyone who's not poor and ultra-left ramblings robs her of all the potential support she could have got. If we read and hear her with care, she touches a few nerves even with those who disagree with her usually insane statements.
There is only one way of dealing with these idiots who live in the 60s notion of poverty being a virtuous symbol of honesty, integrity and values (and all rich being villanous usurpers) - ameliorate the very poverty that feeds oxygen to these jokers.
>> "Does she mean that a criminal should be let go off just because he is poor?"
Quite recently, we had a Supreme Court judgement (Mula vs State of UP) citing poverty as a mitigating factor for sentencing. Your frustration is valid, but the reach of the leftist idiots is grossly under-reported.
Juxtapose this with the 28 death sentences pardoned by the previous President. The left liberals got their agenda fulfilled through backdoor.
Thanks for your nice words and good wishes. It made the arguments on this forum so enriching.
The Irreverent Indian
........Yes, I know that was a harsh comment. My after thoughts were, I could have been more deplomatic and decent in my opinion.......but I am just an ordinary housewife with no intellectual skills as the lady who we are talking about. This woman AR, ever since the printed and electronic media started giving her importance, has been only displaying her utter hatred for the very concept of India. Wherever she went, she did not fail to show India (or the Indian society) in poor light. She did not miss to express her negative thoughts on the subjects she was asked of her opinion. She admires and supports islamic terrorism, sharing stage with kashmir separatists, visiting and being a guest to maoists, justifiing their terror, calling them Gandhians with guns, opposing to construction of dams.... etc. I doubt if she stands up on her feet when our national anthem plays. If she is so annoyed of our country and everything she hates in here, why can't she just get out of the country. When she is in a position, where her words are read and heard by so many people, her actions should be very very responsible. In this delhi rape case incident, I read BBC quoting Arundhati Roy saying, the rape victim is from an affluent middle class family and this issue has gotten bigger because she was raped by poor men. Any one here please say that you agree with her. Even if she was from a rich family this case realy deserves all this attention because of the nature of the brutality. Next, why in the first place, Roy should mention the economic status of the pervert rapists? Does she mean that a criminal should be let go off just because he is poor?
Just Joe King >> Totalitarians tend to be against the middle class because free markets create them(middle classes).
You have a very good point. There are a few nations in the world that come close to A. Roy's beliefs (radical left anarchism) - like North Korea, Somalia etc. These countries are all unique in that they dont have any independently existing middle class.
People like A.Roy are feudal elitists in heart and they consider a strong vibrant middle class as a threat to their belief systems and world views. In a way their world view was shaped by such great worthies like Pol Pot who thought it right to liquidate urban middle class totally.
Well articulated views. Totally agreeing here.
We need multi pronged steps to resolve the issue. Agree that the problem is national but Delhi is specific in being rape capital because of its VVIP obsession that puts the city unsafe for normal citizens. To be honest, anyone not well connected (even a male) is not very safe in Delhi.
And people like A.Roy are also part of the problem since they are the VVIP feudals whom the police force works for (and thereby neglecting the security needs of the common man/woman who face the abuse at the hands of goodans). Remember Jessica Lal case?
Kiran Bagachi >> And what if the caste of this girl is revealed and she turns out to be a Dalit?
This will give her the opportunity to write another long essay on why India is as a nation obsessed with raping dalits.
Moral of Story - Heads She Wins, Tails You lose. Never argue with a PIG, it will drag it to its own level of hypocrisy, fraud and deceit and beat you with its experience.
"It is true that rape of Dalit girls does not attract much notice."
And what if the caste of this girl is revealed and she turns out to be a Dalit?
If you listen carefully to Arundhati Roy's answers you would get a feeling that she was actually justifying the rape based on her theory that poor people because of injustice meted out to them take revenge and in this case , it happened to that middle class girl , that was all. So according to her as you wrote, there was nothing wrong in that rape !!
Arundhati Roy is a perverted woman who lost her balance of mind , and there is no doubt it. If not she should take care to analyze an incident based on proper ,balanced thinking at least now onwards.
See the statistics. In 2010 a total of 414 rape cases were reported to Delhi Police. At least half- of the rape cases go unreported because in India , a woman or girl who was raped would not accepted in normal manner and hence she could not continue her life in a normal way. Statics show us that compared to Delhi , in a big city like Bangalore only 65 rape cases were reported. Compare this to another 35 cities in India and we will know that of all rape cases committed in Indian cities 38% are committed in Delhi alone !!!
Delhi police web site as well psychologists worldwide tell us that 95% of rape cases were due to the males in proximity to the victim , that is a rapist is known to victim or at least some one she had seen on a regular basis , for example who was stalking her , or someone who was her neighbour. Only 4 to 5% cases , the rape is committed by strangers.
How much IQ does anyone need to understand that rape cases are not born out of "class" struggle and are not based on economics , even if it were committed on a poor woman by a rich man.
Biologists do agree that there is genetically a basis ( in a man ) for a propensity to rape a woman. And in the same degree in some woman to support a man who raped a woman !! on one or other pretext , like for example , a girls showy dress was responsible etc., are made by woman and women like Arundhati Roy attributed it to “class” struggle !!! or economic injustice etc.,
But genetically the signature is either vague or we do not have enough published reports but a propensity of someone to rape a woman has its roots in social back ground to a great extent.. In 99% cases, it is confirmed by psychologists that a commit of rape is a learned behaviour like any other “ learned behaviours” of a man.
For example the way you eat , the way you address a woman , or the way you express your anger , or the way you criticize( words you use or methodology you adopt ) others is a learned behavior. If he perceives that the woman might not report the rape to any one or that there is high chance of going scott free he would commit the rape or else , a rapist would associate with groups to emphasize his “learned behaviour".
In 2011 also, in Delhi , a rape of 16 year old girl took place in a moving car for six (6) hours. The car was going all over Delhi' main roads. It should also be mentioned that these criminals were caught after the girl reported to police and all of them got life imprisonment which they are undergoing.
The same type of incident with much more cruelty took place , one year after and in the same manner politicians are assuring us that there would be fast courts. In 2011 it was minister Krishna Tiratha and in 2012 it is Sheila Dixit.
The question is why nearly 40% of all urban rape cases are taking place in Delhi alone ?
Why MP has the highest number of rape cases ? Why AP has lowest among four big states ?
Salim / Tamara Sugunasiri >> I tend to agree with Arundhati. How she deviates from the mainstream opinion on this shows her intellectual and moral strength.
Mainstream opinion was that the holocaust of jews by Nazis during WW2 was a crime against humanity. So anyone who disagrees witht that and welcomed the mass genocide of jews must have been intellectually and morally strong, as per above opinion.
Now tell us who is the fascist here?
And what is wrong in critizing the establishment heroes namely Saint sonia (representing the party that has ruled India 58 out of last 65 years), Vinod Mehta (media editor who has run a magazine as voice of establishment for decade) and Rajan Raheja (billionaire industrialist who runs media magazines to support the establishment)?
And critiquing above is fascist? By someone who is just an aam admi and not in position of power by any means?
Shows again that the Stalinist Left liberals of India are the biggest FASCISTS in this country.
BVG Rao >>She is extremely foolish in her opinions and she dares to venture in to an analysis of a rape in urban area.
A. Roy is not just foolish and stupid, she is a PERVERT HERSELF.
People like her are not an ounce different from the rapits and they deserve the same punishment as rapists.
And it is so tragic that the MEDIA house OUTLOOK is giving space to such perverts who support rape of middle class by so called poor..
Even as they use every chance to delete constitutionally legally valid and ethically binding comments from Aam Admi like us..
This stupid would woman should better keep her mouth shut and should take some classes in psychology as well as in anthropology. She is extremely foolish in her opinions and she dares to venture in to an analysis of a rape in urban area.
You can not compare rape of women in disturbed areas to a so called peaceful areas and in fact in the heart of Delhi City, where in a bus goes around on the roads ( hopefully it was not plying right in front of Sonia Gandhi's house or PM's official residence.)
What Arundhati speaking is utter rubbish. Even an uneducated person would not have spoken like this.
In Delhi city , rapes have been taking place and in fact they are increasing by day. Present demonstration shows frustration of people and their terrible fear. The bus was going along the main roads ,thorough signals , thorugh stops for one and half hour while the rape was going on that hapless women by four people by turns. Arundhati's claim is foolish because , the criminals raped her not because she belonged to a middle class but because she was a woman , that was as simple as that. There was no rage of a "class" or "caste". There was an opportunity, because hundreds of rape cases in the city of Delhi have been going on unpunished ! One only has to see the statistics. Out of some 260 rape cases in Delhi alone , how many were punished ?
So, the present agitation is this anger ,where the rapists are going unpunished. She only has to listen what protesters are telling in front of camera.
Urban big cities like New York for example is totally unsafe for women to be alone. The rapes committed in this city can be calculated "per minute" basis. Our own Delhi is racing ahead with New York. That is the worrisome aspect.
No one really gives a damn about her anyway.
I give a damn. Actually, I give more than a damn...Your statement should change to "At least one gives a damn" I say at least because I am sure there are many more.
>> Nothing else is expected from Arundhati
True. But I was also talking about the jehadis on this forum. They try to give a caste/communal color to any issue that might show their beloved Congress in bad light, to try and divert the issue.
She has a point - this was a heinous crime, but others as heinous take place across the country to poor, less educated women, committed by people who are supposed to represent the Indian State. And there is not this kind of sustained outrage. And there should be.
"Bringing caste into discussion is a product of a sick mind."
Nothing else is expected from Arundhati. She is jealous of these people as they have support for everyone in the country for their cause. She did the same with Anna's movement. No one cares about her anti-national causes. So she has to show sick side to discredit them. No one really gives a damn about her anyway.
>> It is true that rape of Dalit girls does not attract much notice
I don't think the caste of the victim was disclosed, or known to many protestors. I don't know what her (or her friend who was accompanying her) caste is. Do you?
It is more a case of an incident happening in Delhi, in a situation many of us can find ourselves in, coupled with beating and torture. Bringing caste into discussion is a product of a sick mind.
It is true that rape of Dalit girls does not attract much notice.
What a sick mind ! I cannot believe outlook entertain a creature like her. Get lost, lady,
This woman makes me sick. For her a crime like rape is kosher if the victims belong to the so-called upper classes or castes. It becomes a crime only when the poor are victims. One can't get sicker than that.
My god, I had hidden admiration for her all along.
Vanished today (for whatever it counts for).
"The anger is because poor people raped a middle class girl", she says.
One has to be amazingly "sick" to play this ideological brownie-point collection game; on expense of a girl who's damaged intestines has been removed just yesterday.
I have my problem with Metro-centric (Delhi centric mainly) attention-span of our national conscious.
But we have to live with that. That is what it is.
This girl who has not only been raped, but assaulted by iron rod so badly that she might not be able to eat ever again.
And you are implying that she doesn't deserve the anger of support she is receiving? Just because she happen to born in a middle-class family?
btw: it has been reported that her father sold his land to get her a good education (the bad middle-class man is not that bad to his daughter afterall).
Shame on you!!!