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1/D-14
Mar 04, 2011
02:54 AM

 "The fact is that the PM and ministers do make mistakes."

Everyone makes mistakes from time to time. But there is a difference between honest mistakes and intentional mistakes. None of the mistakes our PM has made-be it Bihar, Jharkhand, Shibu Soren, TR Baalu getting petroleum licenses, Spectrum, S-band, CVC appointment-none of these are honest mistakes. They were made knowing fully well the consequences.  Both PM and Sonia are arrogant and they think they can brazen out anything. 2009 win has only added to that arrogance. Our PM does not think he is answerable to anyone. Be it Spectrum or S-band or this CVC issue, he speaks only when he is pushed to the corner and has no more room to move. 

The CVC issue could have been handled much better. The govt could have easily washed its hands off and allowed CVC to defend himself in court. But the arrogance of Singh and SOnia prevented them from doing so. And now they stand humiliated. 

For all the talk about Singh's modesty, the man is basically full of hubris. He thinks he is better than most people and the rules that apply to others does not apply to him. He consciously or unconsciously believes it. That is causing his downfall.

Ganesan
Nj, USA
2/D-19
Mar 04, 2011
04:12 AM

" None of these authorities have looked at the matter from the larger perspective of institutional integrity including institutional competence and functioning of CVC." SC.
 

This is an arbitrary and unprovable comment. The SC should refrain from making such statements.

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
3/D-26
Mar 04, 2011
05:04 AM

This is an arbitrary and unprovable comment

Of course. Because one self-appointed legal expert has declared it so. The court has very gracefully taken the pants off the man Ganesan calls Integrity Singh by pointing out more than sufficiently that there was more than suspicion involved in the case of Thomas.

If anybody needs to refrain from making a fool of his senile self, we all know too well who that is.

He was of course being very charitable, suggesting how a virtue could once again be made out of a necessity, for in this case the "mistake", not to put too fine a point on it, seemed to be deliberate. Someone clearly thought they could get away as usual, just as they had at the time of the appointment of CEC Navin Chawla, or why, indeed, the President herself.

Yes, the hubris is responsible. Nothing was learnt from the Shibu Soren incident and in that case Manu bhai blamed the coalition pressures.

In fact, this is the time when only an expression of graceful humility and honesty is required. Mr Moily needs to be advised to stop playing pot, kettle and black forthwith.

That is good advice but the Congress party is too arrogant and too stupid to be taught how to behave. If they had this much sense, would they have allowed things to come to this pass?

Ajit Tendulkar
Seattle, United States
4/D-41
Mar 04, 2011
09:40 AM

 >>>This is an arbitrary and unprovable comment. The SC should refrain from making such statements.

ANWAAR

That was an avoidable comment. It only leaves us wonder about your own credibility. It affirms the general perception in this forum that you do not accept any thing which is not to your liking and all that is connected to minorities ought to be right.

Unlike you, who will comment on every thing, the SC has a job on hand and has gone through the arguments and evidence placed before it.  It clearly pointed out the specific lapses by the High Power committee headed by the PM which  failed to take note of the charge sheet pending against Thomas. Even oversight is no excuse bcz Sushma Swaraj expressed her dissent in the light of unsettled allegation on Thomas. With CBI reportable to the CVC, how can he discharge duties impartially when he himself is under cloud? And thats where the integrity of the institution comes not mere personal integrity so much touted. The comment by SC is a timely reminder to the powers that be to exercise caution and care in selecting constitutional functionaries that guide the course pof a large democracy. 

I pity you. You look more pathetic to me than the congress.

sandilya
Chennai, India
5/D-44
Mar 04, 2011
09:53 AM

 "This is an arbitrary and unprovable comment. The SC should refrain from making such statements."

This is coming from someone who picks up opinions as gospel truths to discredit court judgements.

Maha
NJ, United States
6/D-56
Mar 04, 2011
10:50 AM

The New Chief Justice of India under whose supervision the Supreme Court and all other courts will fuction hence forth:

This person receiveds the most dislikes for his posts.

Do you all still want o know the name?

pankaj hedaoo
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
7/D-57
Mar 04, 2011
11:02 AM

Power creates arrogance. The PM keeps repeating in a monotone - Caesar's wife and thinking that if he keeps saying he will be one. well he isn'tand to top it, I think he is finding himself out of depth and appears to not know where to go from here. Chidambaram to me has always appeared arrogant - body language and words always communicating an air of superiority over mear mortals - the classical brahiminical image (whether the South Indian type or the Boston type). I keep asking myself, so what are his accomplishments as a HM, and can't think of much.

Essentially, the UPA II and Congress thought they had finished the opposition - the BJP was toothless and directionless and the Left had been screwed. So they had no one to answer to. They themselves thought they were decent and good people, so they couldn't be doing wrong in the 1st place- the god syndrome. They had forgotten our local wisdom of fallible gods.

That is why in their wisdom the US founding fathers framed their constitution far more for indivudal rights over government powers. Put checks and balances between the legislative, executive and judiciary always under the gaze of a very competitive free media. We have to thank our constitution too, even though I wish we had borrowed much more from the US constitution.

On an optimistic note for all our chaos and meandering, we seem to be heading in the right direction may be at a snails pace.

Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
8/D-58
Mar 04, 2011
11:03 AM

However the Defence of Thomas had submitted a very valid argument before teh SC .Thomas said that since 40 % MPs are tainted and charge sheeted so his case and Thomas's  Charge Sheet should be too considered at Par with MPs case.Since the tainted MPs are not barred from holding the post so should be Thomas not removed as per the Defence Council .We have no objetion to this argument with slight modifications,

Let the tainted MPs be also barred and remoed  like Thomas .

a k ghai
mumbai, India
9/D-72
Mar 04, 2011
12:53 PM

Manmohan Singh looks like a scared chicken,ever afraid of losing his prime ministership.So,he wants to please Sonia  at all times and he has abandoned all decision making powers of the most powerful constitutional position.The way Chidambaram has behaved in this case seems more to be one up on Manmohan Singh in pleasing the all powerful Sonia and Rahul combo.Manmohan Singh has no self-respect and the sufferer is the country.It is totally rotten at the top.

S.S.Nagaraj
Bangalore, India
10/D-73
Mar 04, 2011
12:55 PM

 Ghai Sab

I consider MPs cannot be compared to CVC. An MP is only a cog in the wheel and just part of a system of collective responsibility.Alone an MP cannot wreck any serious damage unlike the CVC whose silence  can also be quite damaging . An MP doesn't have straight personally accountable duties as a CVC  who has clear and focussed tasks in the anti-corruption drive. Therefore the two are not comparable. True, even an MP should be above any charge. I wish the Supreme Court takes the initiative to direct the EC make some rules which mandate on the candidates  to obtain Income Tax and vigilance clearance before they file their nominations for MP elections . No criminal shall be able to enter the sacred  portal of parliament. With electoral reforms only our nascent democracy can survive otherwise its going to be another banana republic.

sandilya
Chennai, India
11/D-74
Mar 04, 2011
01:48 PM

Every one is baying for the blood of MMS but time P. Chidambaram (PC) took the fire for his shoddy job. His Alma mater Harvard would not be proud  of him any more as he amply proved he is  unbecoming of a Harvard product.

 A decade ago, I  was one of very staunch admirers of  PC and used to wonder why people of TN were not mobilising enough to choose him as CM. Obviously I was influenced by his suave talk and confident ( some say arrogant) body language- his wry smile not withstanding. But alas,over a period he has proved himself enough for any to conclude all that was  a show and Hollywood beating good acting skills , nothing beyond.

As a Finance Minister he was a total failure in enforcing and bringing to book serious tax evaders. Right under his nose thousands of crores of havala transactions and land dealings took place and he neither acted nor paved way for better administration of ED of IT Dept. All the IT dept did was squeeze the last rupee from hapless salaried class. They let go not only the biggest fish but did not catch even a shrimp while tax evaders carried money in gunny bags. No method nor system was eveolved to curtail the menace of black money. Information Technology could have been utilised to a full extent to track money trails but he just had no idea except lick his lips.

And as a Home Minister he proved to be even worse; he talked much more than he did any worthwhile to tackle the Naxal problem and virtually he closed his eyes to the problem except writing some letters to the CMs. There are rumours in TN that he was bailed out by some underwriters to a tune of 3-5K crores to cover the heavy losses incurred by his son  in the markets in that run away crude oil speculation, a couple of yrs ago.That perhaps explains his inaction as FM.

 Time he resigned gracefully. I do not feel proud that a person from my state is doing a good job there.

PC, You are a big sham  if not shame.

sandilya
Chennai, India
12/D-75
Mar 04, 2011
01:50 PM

Sandilya,

>>  you do not accept any thing which is not to your liking and all that is connected to minorities ought to be right.

The CVC issue has nothing to do with minorities.

>> Unlike you, who will comment on every thing, the SC has a job on hand and has gone through the arguments and evidence placed before it.

So my less knowledgeable opinion should not be expressed?

>> out the specific lapses by the High Power committee headed by the PM.

Have you read my comments at all?

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
13/D-81
Mar 04, 2011
02:38 PM

PM and his lame duck cabinet needs to resign; a new PM be elected by the UPA, Sonia G should take 'sanyas' from her meddling, iresponsibility-free politics, and Rahul should wed his foreign doll and leave politics to a healthy merotocracy within the UPA. This could intome for all the massive crimes comitted by the Congress since Indira's days.

Shubhang Pandya
Ahmedabad, India
14/D-86
Mar 04, 2011
02:57 PM

So Sandhilya, PC is a true blue South Indian Brahmin with an overlay of Harvard Boston Brahmin. Deadly combo - no wonder he has no patience for objections and "I am right damn it and if you natives think not then you are a fool I don't need to suffer" attitude.

Arun Maheshwari
Bangalore, India
15/D-90
Mar 04, 2011
04:49 PM

 Arun Maheshwari

BTW, PC is not a Brahmin. He is a Chettiar- a non veg eating bania caste known for riches, entrepreneurship and distinct culture.  

sandilya
Chennai, India
16/D-93
Mar 04, 2011
05:21 PM

 MMS, Sonia and Moily must be finding out when Justice Sarosh Kapadia will retire. Politicians are patient vultures and MMS is a typical congress politician not having any identity of his own but merely at the mercy of 2G command. Let us forget that he was once upon a time under a different political head an academician, economist and a competent bureaucrat. 

It's not the political parties and their caste politics, high priced seminars and conferences showering praises on MMS, Pranab and PC, Media channels bestowing all and sundry awards on politically powerful under television glare, but judges like CJ Kapadia, Radhakrishnan and Swtantra Kumar (all of them have some Bombay High Court connection) which makes our democracy work...inspite of anarcy, bureaucratic greed and political power mongering. 

But, Congress....specially and only Congress wants pliable judges like AN Ray, MH Beg, Bhagwati and Balakrishnan.  Judges, who in the words of CJ Hidayatullah are 'looking forward" and not 'forward looking' Sooner or later CJ Kapadia will retire and MMS will ring some lackey dog in Gandji Court as CJI.

sanjiv
mumbai, India
17/D-94
Mar 04, 2011
05:33 PM

Anwaar,

I am afraid that you are continuing to takeindefensible poitions regarding this case which even the government and its spokespersons are avoiding. This is becoming repetitive and boring. Once you take the position "the Congress can do no wrong" and no one should criticise it or find fault with its method of functioning, further discussion becomes meaningless

Repeating the same mantra on every thread "the SC should not interfere with the government or voice any opinion" without offering any justification other than that it is your opinion becomes mere noise.

Bonita
Chennai, India
18/D-95
Mar 04, 2011
05:35 PM

Anwaar,

To buttress your opinion please quote onearticle or opinion piece which faults the SC and states that there was nothing wrong with Thomas' appointment.

Bonita
Chennai, India
19/D-102
Mar 04, 2011
06:01 PM

>>The CVC issue has nothing to do with minorities.

Anwaar

If the candidate was some Singh or Krishnan or Pandit, you wouldn't have for sure taken the position you have taken now !! Other memebers in this forum, do you agree with me?

It is funny to read your argument that executive is answerable  only to the people and not to courts as they are not elected bodies. I see. Which people will get to ask the PM or HM on bungled up appointments? Opinion of even the leader of opposition in RS was brushed aside what to talk of people. If you mean elections, well, God save this country.  We are not pioneers in democracy. This institution is a barrowed practice from the West and UK in particular.

You live in USA, ain't you? Haven't you read the news of a district judge overruling Prez Obama's Health policy?  Don't tell me you haven't heard of rulings on constitutional matters by the Supreme court of USA . Adjudication by courts of law is a check on the unbridled powers of arrogant executive. Incidentally, to tell you, I am myself an executive but I believe in adjudication by a court of law. I  know you are getting annoyed that I am lecturing you but you have exhibited such naivity when you put forward that opinion.

I know you are an intelligent person but it beats me why you are posting such silly arguments as you are posting today and not willing to concede the apex court's judgement and wisdom. I accept,  You have a right to have your own opinion but to question the SC is going beyond a point. Heavens sake one must concede PJT is tainted until proved otherwise.There cant be two opinions about that. 

Your credibilty would have been more if you took correct position as the SC.

One can easily connect PJT's recent stint as secy telcom ministry and the scam there after and the intransigence of the Congress in wanting only him as CVC despite valid objection by another member of HPC.And all this in the back ground of a charge against him which only makes him qualified as eminently pliable. That is what exactly the court has prevented.  

If you accept that CVC is expected to act as a watch dog not a laptop dog of the party in power, you will find great solace in SC ruling. I begin to see hope in our democracy. 

sandilya
Chennai, India
20/D-108
Mar 04, 2011
06:39 PM

By the time P.J.Thomas was chosen & installed as CVC in September 2010,  the 2G spectrum allaocation by by Raja in 2008 is a full blown gigantic scam. Right from the begining the Prime Minister was in loop about  arbritary cronyism followed by Raja in spectrum allaocation. At that point of time the PM did not interfere in the process as he thought there was no issue considering the beneficiaries. By the time the post of CVC fallen vacant, it is a nationwide corruption scandal finding space even in internatioanl media & PM & his men had enough time to go thread bare in to Raja's activities & realisation dawaned that this is one scam which will entagle Manmohan Singh.

Why it must be & has to be Thomas & Thomas only. The man was telecom secretary in the immediate past; he was the man who must have gone  through the files  with a fine toothcomb, had even defended the scam & even went so far as to put it in writing that the CAG has no jurisdiction to investgate & report on the the 2G scam as it did. Thomas was also vulnerable as the Palmolene issue was hanging over his head. Since CVC has supervisory role over CBI . who else but Thomas who as CVC could fudge & derail 2G scam enquiry?

MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
21/D-114
Mar 04, 2011
07:10 PM

 " None of these authorities have looked at the matter from the larger perspective of institutional integrity including institutional competence and functioning of CVC." SC. 

The only institution that hasn't been completely undermined by UPA-II so far is the SC. No worries though. The NAC has 3 more years to work on it.

nobody inparticular
Mumbai, India
22/D-124
Mar 04, 2011
08:23 PM

<Why it must be & has to be Thomas & Thomas only.>

That's the million dollar question to which everyone wants an answer. However, don't hold your breath waiting for the PM to explain.

On Monday he is expected to make a statement in Parliament. He will say :

"The question has been raised as to how the HPC chose Mr Thomas. We made our choice on the basis of the information placed before us. Unfortunately some details were inadvertantly omitted from the file. We are taking corrective steps to ensure that this does not happen again.

I wish to assure the house that there are no mala fide intentions behind choosing the candidate we deemed most suited based on available information. I am only human and occasionally make mistakes."

Remember. You heard it here first.

Bonita
Chennai, India
23/D-126
Mar 04, 2011
08:33 PM

Was BJP playing a cynical game on Thomas affairs?  How transparent of Mr. Dougal?  Just one sentence exposes where his loyalti lies.  Granted a minister, even a Prime Mnister can make a mstake.  But for more than six months, not just the BJP but whole opposition was attacking the choice of Mr. Thomas as CVC and our Ceasar's Wife PM, along with other Congress leaders kept on defending Mr. Thomas' appointment with clumsy justification after clumsy justification.

P.B. Joshipura
Suffolk, Virginia, United States
24/D-140
Mar 04, 2011
09:47 PM

Mr P.B. Joshipura: If you read the first few lines of this post, it should be clear that no where is it even remotely suggesting that the BJP was playing cynical politics about the appointment of the CVC. In fact, if anything, it says just the opposite where it states that it was so "sought to be reduced, self-servingly, by the Prime Minister and Congress". I provided a quote from and link to the PM's September 6 meeting to buttress the point. But never mind. Comment is free.

Sundeep Dougal
New Delhi, India
25/D-142
Mar 04, 2011
09:59 PM

Sorry.  Mr. Dougal, I misread that part.  I stand corrected.

P.B. Joshipura
Suffolk, Virginia, United States
26/D-143
Mar 04, 2011
10:04 PM

 It may be recalled that as on7th september, 2010, PG Thomas ahs been appointed as CVC by the President of India!After his taking oath of office, he gets bound by the provisions of CVC Act, 2003. The President can remove him by order as per sec6.2(b) if  the CVC has been convicted of an offence,which in the opinion of the central Govt.involves moral turpitude!Will the legal luminaries inform the general public whether the NGO's petition is proper or not?

Ghodboley
mumbai, India
27/D-144
Mar 04, 2011
10:11 PM

The appointment of Thomas as CVC was neither a snafu nor an inadvertant mistake. It was an well thought out manouvre to scuttle process to go deep into the scam. But then best plans sometimes boomarangs. In case of Thomas, it did.

Those who are touting this to be a mistake or a snafu are working for & on behalf of the scamsters - politicians, corporates,  bureaucracy , the whole lot.

MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
28/D-145
Mar 04, 2011
10:24 PM

In this discussion  some keep saying  Ceaser's wife must be above suspicion. Unfortunately they are never so in real life. Not a historian nor a student opf literaure, I am told  Pompie, the Ceaser's wife, was reputed to be a seductress, a tart.

MANISH BANERJEE
KOLKATA, India
29/D-146
Mar 04, 2011
10:28 PM
Sundeep Dougal
New Delhi, India
30/D-151
Mar 04, 2011
10:58 PM

"It is the highest court of the land, and the highest court of the land having pronounced a verdict, as a loyal citizen of the country I accept its judgment." - MMS

SC judgement is good enough for the PM but not for Anwaar.

Bonita
Chennai, India
31/D-17
Mar 05, 2011
03:48 AM

Sandilya,

>> If the candidate was some Singh or Krishnan or Pandit, you wouldn't have for sure taken the position you have taken now.

Your comment is beneath contempt and deserves no answer.

Anwaar
Dallas, United States
32/D-41
Mar 05, 2011
09:31 AM

An extract from an article in The Hindu by Dr RK Raghavan.

"No proof is any longer required to show that the choice of Mr. Thomas was downright arbitrary, illegal and laughable. It was an exercise of executive authority that was questionable, whatever standards you apply. The Supreme Court's ruling leaves no one in doubt that fundamental facts that should have agitated the minds of those who are authorised by law (read the Central Vigilance Commission Act) to make such a vital appointment were glossed over for reasons of expediency. It is beyond comprehension why the High Power Committee (HPC) chose to wear blinkers. Virtually anybody could have been appointed, except one facing a criminal trial."

www.hindu.com/2011/03/05/stories/2011030552421200.htm

Bonita
Chennai, India
33/D-45
Mar 05, 2011
10:38 AM

The idea that this was a "mistake" is laughable. The appointment was deliberate and cynical; the purpose was evidently to ensure that the ruling monarchy (for the Congress is little more than a rubber stamp for the family monarchy in power) had access to the maximum slush funds possible in the future, in order to be able to buy its way to power next time round...again.

Biswapriya Purkayastha
Shillong, India
34/D-1
Mar 06, 2011
12:02 AM

India is the biggest democratic country vandalized by our Corrupt Politicians right in the name of democracy thereby mockering the very name of it.

What is our democracy?

Buying the voting power of the poor people by corrupt politicians? Politicized and corrupt police force favouring the rich and corrupt and not upholding the
rule of the law? Directionless state with no clear implementable future plan? Clueless state whose growth is propelled by the private sector inspite of
several hurdles? Watching with belief during every election display of muscle power? Watching with disbelief that tainted candidates have an upper hand in
the election? Seeing India grow as a software power for the outside world but having no plan to tap the same for the benefit of the state? Creating an
unparalleled black economy rivalling the white one? Inable State to provide quality health, education and infrastructure spend but having superpower
ambitions? Having only choices to elect corrupt incumbent vs corrupt during last rule? Silently seeing every independent institutions which are supposed to
be pillars of democracy slowing getting politicised and eroded (like Presidency, CVC, Media)? Jusifying coalition politics as an excuse by the highest
political office? Creating unequal growth where rich grow richer and poor growing poor? Providing Middlemen to corner a big share of state spend? A state
where the courts are not given adequate funding (in other words,delaying justice thereby creating orderliness in the society)?

So What type of Democracy are we???????

The last faith of the common man is courts.

Vasu
Raleigh, United States
35/D-82
Mar 07, 2011
03:19 PM

  i am angry for the first time in not having a leader as primeminister as i thought a nonelected executive like manmohan will slowly make the office of primeminister too the same in the lines of president and more powers with the states fuelling real growth and autonomy.

no leader with spine and little bit of leadership qualities will agree with judicial mafia.kindly see how jayalalitha acted in 1992 when supreme court squashed the 69% reservation in tamilnadu.it was included in 9th schedule and she is having the last laugh since 20 years.

 will the chief of army/airforce/navy be removed by the courts now if they have some charge against on being a corps commander when some encounter took place and killed a civilian and named in FIR/Rice/liquor being stolen and named as 80th accused..why is there an executive and legislature. i have no objection if the court had ruled in favour of consensus in all vital appointments between the PM and leader of oppositon and hence quashed the appointment of PCT.It has usurped the power now to be the selector of all like it has been doing in cases of judges and the result is for all to see. 

  shame on u manmohan and PC for spineless wonders and sushma for celebrating victory when u lost the argument of importance of leader of opposition concurrence

munusamy ganapathy
chennai, India
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