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Oct 04, 2009
12:02 AM
perhaps Gandhi too is over - rated
nowhereland, Japan
Oct 04, 2009
05:49 AM
Indians are too nutty to be successful revolutionaries - thank God.

Communism may have done some good outside India, but Kobad's version was the most primitive and cruel and moronic of the lot. It was related to real Marxism in the same way the Ku Klux Klan is related to Christianity.

If a frivolpous thug like Kobad actually got power he would prove himself no better than Vellupillai Prabhakaran. Just another bloodthirsty, paranoid lunatic.

The Indian "Marxists" are scumbags.
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Oct 04, 2009
05:51 AM
Poor India !

Even its bloody Naxalites turn out to be run by a Gandhi!!!!
Iqram Jahaz
Jaipur, India
Oct 04, 2009
10:54 AM
I am just hoping to make a wider point in response to the one you make about how class identity must shape one and guide one's life's course.
It is equally true that an outsider's gaze often helps society, class, or group, etc introspect, brings up facets or ills insiders usually miss. Equally true is the act of the insider "stepping outside to look in"
There are examples and they are not merely romantic leftists (to list a few, Gandhi himself, Nehru (father and son), Bose, AO Hume, Ambedkar,etc and farther away, Lincoln, Sun Yat Sen)...
delhi, India
Oct 04, 2009
11:02 AM
gandhi would have been really great if not for his beleif in religion and hinduism.gandhi did the same with dalits as gandy did with poor.his beleif in hinduism which is nothing but caste supremacy and subjugation made him behave patronsingly with dalits(i am amazed on how he can think and coin a derogatory term harijans for dalits).he was all for caste system and against widow remarriage which is far worse than ghandy killing chickens.he almost died to prevent what ambedkar got for dalits from the british as he was afraid of the dalits getting better economically and socially and doesnt need his patronisation.
chennai, India
Oct 04, 2009
11:10 AM
ghandy atleast led the life of a poor while gandhi just cleaned his own toilet and trumpheted as if he was god. did he clean the toilets of others which the dalits are doing for centuries nor cleaning and eating dead animals.the arguments used by the author against ghandy can be used more effectively against gandhi if u see his dealings with dalits and women(he slept with naked young women to see whether he can control himself and acheive the brahmacharya comedies of
chennai, India
Oct 04, 2009
01:52 PM
Gandhi vs Ghandy ? Hey Ram! That is what we came to after sixtytwo years of trying to run our own country!! Is it not a macabre equation? Who is Kobad Ghandy? At best a misguided truculent preacher of emancipation of the deprived by fruitless violence or at worst a an idologue turned in to a brigand who got into that selfsustaing violent loop & cannot extricate hinself.

Gandhi renunciated by choice , Ghandhy once on the wrong route had no choice.
Oct 05, 2009
02:14 AM
G:>>"i am amazed on how he can think and coin a derogatory term harijans for dalits"

perhaps, gandhiji understood how the post-moghul dalits were only devout hindu Bs, godminded people, who were forced as the new-dalit-scavengers by the nawabs and obc hindus serving them. Hence, he called them hari-jans, god's own people, god-minded people, altho excluded from temples by the anti-idolatry sultans and their obc-assistants.

only those consider hindu-gods 'derogatory', either the conv-type or the mad products of madarsas, perhaps, will find the term 'harijan' derogatory..
chennai, india
Oct 05, 2009
09:36 PM
A very good post. I congratulate the author for having called a cold-blooded killer a 'cold-blooded killer'.
Mumbai, India
Oct 06, 2009
09:18 AM
I believe more than anything else, Bapa Rao is peeved that Kobad wrung chickens with his own hands, and that supposedly hints at some deep seated sadistic flaw in his character. With all due respect, let me submit that if one has got to eat a chicken, one has to kill it. There is no getting around this basic fact. You cant eat your chicken and keep it alive too. pun certainly intended.

Whether you cook a chicken at home, or eat it at some restaurant, the basic fact is that chicken gets killed. Among the regular meat-eaters, killing chickens is mundane daily chore, usually undertaken by housewives, who are otherwise quite decent god fearing ladies. And yes, killed it by wringing its neck is the easiest way to do the job.

The alternative of course is to turn vegetarian, which I definitely regard as a higher ideal. But unless that happens there is no point in cringing from wringing necks. That would be hypocritical.
Oat Meal
Mbosa Mbosa, Uganda
Oct 06, 2009
01:02 PM
Jinnah had once quipped " it takes lakhs to maintain Gandhi's lifestyle of poverty ".

Along the same vein it may be said that Gandhi earned his Mahatma - hood at the expense of non Gujarati Hindus.

And to solidify their grip on India after its bloody Partition, the Nehru dyNASTY idolized Gandhi as the Father of the Nation, even though he had miserably failed to win Independence from the Brits and had allowed the Moslem separatists to create havoc.
nowhereland, Japan
Oct 06, 2009
03:37 PM
dear sehsdri kindly show one dalit who is happy to be called harijan.u will be lucky if u escape without blows after calling someone harijan.if dalits are harijans what r others like brahmins/rajputs r they kamsa jans.evry dalit consider the word harijan a abuse.if paswan names brahmins ravanajans will they be happy and praise him.
he should have said all r equal and like quitting dress changed his surname to a dalit surname to show all r equal but being a proud hindu he was in full support of caste system.he just preached against untouchability as he was afraid of them getting converted enmasse but never spoke a word against varna. he also didnt speak for bhagat singh unlike jinnah as he was afraid of the atheistic nature of bhagat singh and his heroism overshadowing his masochism.
chennai, India
Oct 06, 2009
10:23 PM
gandhi was a proper politician who considered netaji victory as his defeat and did all machievellian strategies and forced netaji to resign from congress presidentship.
how many dalit leaders he developed during his long political life. he did all to denigrate ambedkar and is one of the main reasons of majority of dalits still living secondary status. if ambedkars contention of double vote as sanctioned by british had happened they would have been far better off and partition could have been avoided as the main grouse of muslims was proportionate representation and with dalits getting it there would have been enough justification for their case. the current impasse in women emancipation by women reservation bill would have happened long time ago if not gandhi and is proteges nehru/patel who were for upper caste domination till eternity.
chennai, India
Oct 08, 2009
03:04 AM
Bapa Rao,

I don't know why do you want to compare Gandhi and Gandy. There is no need to make that comparison. Ok let us accept that Gandhi is a better leader/soul/person. Do you accept that Kobad Gandy is better than corrupt politicians who use voilent methods to achieve personal power and wealth. Kobad Gandy is better than corrupt officials who can be held responsible for many deaths through their criminal negligence. Kobad Gandy is better than all our movie stars and industrialists who are born to wealth and only work all their life for maintaing/improving that wealth.

Everybody who is eating a chicken is eating a dead chicken and not a live one. are you implying that all the people who are eating chicken are sadists?

You are talking about assisting the poor. How can you assist a poor person whose livelihood is stolen by Govt land acquisition, and is displaced and when he protests this he has to face police repression and bullets. Are you going to give him Kilo rice for Rs 2 after taking his land.

why does this society, which idolizes gandhi so much, supports violent methods for land acquisition and displacement of people?

why does this society, which idolizes gandhi so much, supports police encounters?

Did this occur to you? No because you just want to criticize Kobad Gandy and the only way you could do is by comparing him to Gandhi. because if you try to compare him to any current political leaders/business leaders, your hollowness becomes apparent.
M. K. Chaitanya
Singapore, Singapore
Oct 08, 2009
09:13 AM
Moderator's note: please do not post the same message again. If you persist, we will be constrained to remove your posting privileges.
Oat Meal
Mbosa Mbosa, Uganda
Oct 08, 2009
11:00 PM
Of course people kill to eat and there is nothing wrong with that. But there is something sick about deliberately training to deaden the conscience so that one can kill human beings in cold blood without remorse, which is what Jyoti Punwani's article was reporting.

And the worst politician and police encounter specialist in the Indian system is better than the "best" ruler in the system Kobad Ghandy is fighting for. In the Indian system, it is possible to mitigate or eliminate the abuses by working with the system, but it requires skill and patience, and a system like India' in which dissent is an inherent right.

In Kobad Ghandy's system, there is no chance to fight against the power, without the risk of having your head cut off, as happened to Francis Enduwar.

This adulation for Kobad Ghandy, to my mind, represents a juvenile attitude that is all too common: "society is rotten and wrong, so let us take a gun and kill everyone that stands in our way, and magically things will be wonderful for ever." Real life is not like that. Don't acquiesce in mindless damage done by people who convinced everyone that they have good intentions.

Bapa Rao
K.V. Bapa Rao
Los Angeles, USA
Oct 09, 2009
03:42 PM
you gotta typo!! = >> Apparently, our Kobad just took the game a step ?farther? (further) and actually became a Naxalite. <<
S R Iyer
Greensboro, NC, United States
Oct 09, 2009
06:35 PM
SR Iyer, it is not a typo. In fact, it is good to see someone remember the distinction:
Shabnam Ali
New Delhi, India
Oct 09, 2009
09:12 PM
The author must read the article in before criticizing Khobad Ghandy's
Shyamal Barua
kolkata, India
Oct 09, 2009
09:45 PM
I agree with Bapa Rao. But you can see a Saba Naqvi expressing admiration for him in one article recently on Outlook. It seems Ghandy was interested in something more than increasing his bank balance, bravo! We bourgeoisie are the guilty ones, always scrounging around our bank accounts. Now we find that the man is filthy rich, and like spoiled brats, tries to entertain himself with the gory glory of Robin hood violence.

Wait now for the left-lib chorus about Netaji, Bhagat Singh and others having done the same. Apparently they had all the democracy and voting power in the world, and therefore could have behaved lawfully. The number one characteristic of left-libs is calculated cupidity, and false analogies. I now find a conspiracy of silence around the death of their favourite Aryan Invasion Theory. They must be thinking seriously about discrediting the genetic findings published in TOI and India Today.
Narasimhan M.G
Bangalore, India
Oct 11, 2009
12:55 PM
dear narasimhan
what the genetic study conducted on 135 people (what a great sample for more than a billion) merely states that there r no pure features and both north south east indians all r bast...s.this is known to evryone that the primitive tribes whether aryan or dravidian used to take women as bounty after wars and exchange them for peace(as late as mughal period akbar married so many rajput princesses so that their fathers/brothers can remain kings).there was a study on people living in leh ladakh considered to be pure aryans and a village in andhra were for the past 400 yrs noone got married outside those 4 kms but still there was no purity of the controversy involving a black professor and white policemen solved by a beer session with obama it was found out that they both r from common ancestry. does it mean that there r no black white racial issues or exploitation
chennai, India
Oct 11, 2009
10:22 PM
Never trust anybody who thinks she or he is a person destiny born to re-engineer our society and reshape our lives,Always remember Polpot and his YEAR ONE.
Ayyagari Vasanta
Visakhapatnam, India
Oct 12, 2009
01:14 PM
Dear Ganapathy,

1. 500,000 genetic markers across the genomes of 132 individuals from 25 diverse groups from 13 states. Harvard and CCMB Hyderabad are the institutions primarily involved. I would hesitate to challenge them on sample size.
2. A very detailed review here.

with graphs which show the genetic closeness of all Indian castes and their greater distance to "Utah Whites". The point is that it talks of ANI & ASI who do not map to Aryans & Dravidians neatly seperated around 1500 B.C., which is the basis of Aryan Invasion Theory.

3. There is another study of genetic distances by Sangamitra Sahoo and 11 other biologists based on Y_Haplogroups, published in the National Academy of Sciences. The caste populations of ‘north’ and ‘south’ India are not particularly more closely related to each other (average Fst value = 0.07) than they are to the tribal groups (average Fst value = 0.06). In particular, Southern castes and tribals are very similar to each other in their Y-chromosomal haplogroup compositions.” As a result, it was not possible to confirm any of the purported differentiations between the caste and tribal pools, a momentous conclusion that directly clashes with the Aryan paradigm, which imagined Indian tribes as adivasis and the caste Hindus as descendants of Indo-Aryans invaders or immigrants. In reality, we have no way, today, to determine who in India is an “adi”-vasi, but enough data to reject this label as misleading and unnecessarily divisive.

Also see "Genetics and the Aryan debate" by Michael Danino for a more comprehensive review of related findings. Here.
Narasimhan M.G
Bangalore, India
Oct 12, 2009
04:06 PM
caste was never a monogamous entity. the males always had their way and religion permitted it. the brahmins can marry ladies of any group and if he marries a rajput the offsprings can join brahmin fold after 3 generations,a vaishya lady after 5 generations and sudra after 7. the rajputs can marry vaishyas and sudras and so on.but if a brahmin lady marries a rajput or a sudra they become panchama/untouchable and thats how the 5th group was formed.the ladies had no choice and were bounties in war and mahabharata vithura was born to a commercial sex worker as the queen was afraid of vyasa.
will anyone take swine flu vaccine after it has been tested on 132 people only. it requires a specific quantity for any authentic study and the subjects selected should cover all groups including people who had no access with outsiders for hundreds of yrs.if there r no aryans and dravidians than replace it by northies and southies.alexander had invaded india and left behind selukus and thousands of soldiers who settled here.if one cannot find any greek dominant genes now shall we also say that alexander nevr invaded india.its really confusing to differentiate who an aryan and who was an dravidian as a north indian dalit and a south indian dalit differ the same as a north and south indian brahmin.
chennai, India
Oct 12, 2009
04:37 PM
aryan indicates certain cultural practises which was forced and replaced the existing ones. its not that 1 crore aryans came and settled in india after killing crores of ashoka becoming buddhist can make the majority buddhist and a pallava king being cured of stomach pain can change the majority in his kingdom from jainism to saivism.the mughul invasion can also be disputed as one cannot find any separate moghul specific genes.
chennai, India
Oct 12, 2009
05:17 PM
IF general dyer is blamed for jalian walabagh one can argue that he didnt fire a bullet and it was the gorkha troops under his command who fired.the aryans had a system which exploited the majority for the benefit of a minority and it was gleefully accepted by the local kings.they gave religious sanctity to the exploitation of women and lower castes.
it was 1000 yrs back when adisankara did absolute reservation of the priesthood in badrinath for kerala brahmins,and viceversa for pashupathinath,udipi etc.he was the father of reservation policy and propenent of aryan supremacy over other communities. these practices are followed till was he who united brahmins across india and created the aryan dravidian divide.i am very happy to know that caste has died with the release of this ?scientific study.aryan invasion theory is nothing but caste supremacy and till there is caste no studies can unite people.
chennai, India
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