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1/D-102
Sep 12, 2009
11:37 PM
Excellent article by Vir Sanghvi.

The degree of public support for fake encounter murders or custodial murders is frightening. No civilized country tolerates custodial killing. Yet even among the educated participants in Outlook's forum there are several posters who support the idea of summary justice being meted out by police officers. Do our passions trump our adoption of civilized judicial standards.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
2/D-14
Sep 13, 2009
02:51 AM
Vir Sanghvi does raise the interesting point that though we may feel squeamish about fake encounter killings, no one seriously believes that the naxalites in the 70s could have been contained without fake killings, or the Punjab militants.

Ofcourse, the other side of the coin that Mr. Anwaar overlooks is that India has many convicted terrorists who have not been executed and are being held in jail at the taxpayer's expense. Should anti capital punishment be the deciding factor ? Tough choice.

Meanwhile, here is Kasab demanding perfume, biryani, basumati rice and what not !
Dr. Vijaya Rajiva
Montreal, Canada
3/D-31
Sep 13, 2009
08:23 AM
almost 45% of india remains under insurgency(naxal,j&k...&k,north-east).About 500 people died in terror attacks in the rest of the country. For a country like our's which figures among the top 3 countries of the world for maximum casualties in terror strikes,its amusing to see Manish tiwari and other congress party spokemen go around from 1 TV studio to another advocating human rights, rights under the constitution,rule of law etc.the above points should serve as a reminder that India is not US or Europe .
priya
delhi, India
4/D-34
Sep 13, 2009
08:40 AM
in India Human Rights is only for traitors and terrorists and not for a common citizen.
S.S.Nagaraj
Bangalore, India
5/D-44
Sep 13, 2009
10:01 AM
it is shocking that the UPA government is more concerned about the rights of terror suspects,while the security force personnel and the other innocent civilians who die at the hands of these terrorists have been reduced to mere statistics.
When justice under the constitution is denied or delayed to such terror victims ,people are forced to take law into their own hands as was evident with the abhinav bharat and malegaon case.
The UPA needs to seriously look into this aspect and not run after muslium votes as it is evidently doing despite the fact that it's own home ministry has filed an affidavit seconding the claim that ishrat jahan and her friends were shady characters and had terror links.
Otherwise it may be too late to prevent the abhinav bharat itch from spreading.
priya
delhi, India
6/D-64
Sep 13, 2009
12:39 PM
"almost 45% of india remains under insurgency(naxal,j&k...&k,north-east).About 500 people died in terror attacks in the rest of the country" - Priya

Priya, you are right. 45% of the country is under state sponsored terrorism. Dictating India from New Delhi (like the Brits did) should stop NOW. People of every region within India should take control of their socio-economic future. External defence should be the only responsibility for the centre.

Dr. Vijaya Rajiva - your statements are a big joke. FYI Naxals are not contained. They are spreading and consolidating. Poor people who have been neglected and rediculed for six decades are organizing themselves for their rights.

S.S.Nagaraj - You are right too! Human rights in India exist for terrorists like Vanzara, Sadhvi Pragya, Narandra Modi, L.K.Advani, Jagdish Tytler and such goons. Are you not ashamed of defending the mass murderes while condeming the victims?

Condemning the victims and defending the murderers (perpetraters) is an act of cowardice similar to those practiced under Hitler in Germany.
Saraswathi
Zurich, Switzerland
7/D-88
Sep 13, 2009
03:26 PM
Dear saraswati ,there is a vast difference between naxals and "jihadi terror". Unless you are able to make the difference you will mix up the two.please read the material distributed by banned organisations like LET,JEM,SIMI etc.They have openly declared in their literatures that non-muslims in india must be forced to convert(wage jihad) or else killed .Mumbai 26/11 was a preview. Have you ever heard of such a thing propagated by even people like Modi,or even the sadhvi.Read the leaked mumbai police confessions of the malegaon accused. They categorically state that whatever they did was only in response to the inaction of Government Of India when terror attacks were taking place unabated last year.Even M.J Akbar classifies this as"tit for tat "terror and not ideological terror.
As for the naxals their cause may be legitimate but their means is not correct.Violence will not fetch anything. They must shun violence and integrate with the mainstream.
priya
delhi, India
8/D-125
Sep 13, 2009
11:00 PM
Dear Priya: You seem to be confused enough to confuse others.

Guys like Vanzara (kills for promotion), Pragya (asking "why only few were killed?" after the incident), Narandra Modi justifying rape, murder and maiming of around 2000 of his own citizens, Manmohan singh asking us to forget the cold blooded murder of around 3000 Indians .... all this has nothing to do with combating Jihadis or terrorism. In fact these are the root cause for promoting terrorism within the nation-state. State acting as terrorists, denying justice and making a mockery of those pleading for justice is certainly sowing seeds for revolt.

Corrupt to the core governments, corrupt police administration, corrupt defence administration, corruption in every walk of life does not make a country strong. In fact corruption is the route adopted by Jihadis (generously funded by Saudi Arabia and routed through Pakistan) to strike successfully inside India.

Naxals are neither interested to bribe nor have resources enough to bribe their way.

Naxal leaders, if they wanted, could have lead a kushy life but they chose to endure the hardship along with the multitude of poor advasis and farmers who have no voice in the assembly or parliament.

Fraudulent elections (bribe for vote) pushes up only rich-criminal candidates to assemblies and parliament specially from rural areas. In Naxal affected areas the para-military forces are bribed by Congress & BJP to cast vote on respective party's behalf as the Voting machines never reach the poor.

Justice under democracy is not selective. It has to be applied to all under all circumstances.

Attack and destroy the source of injustice ... be it Islamic fundamentalism or Christian fundamentalism or Hindu fundamentalism or any other fundamentalism that works against democratic rights.
Saraswathi
Zurich, Switzerland
9/D-17
Sep 14, 2009
03:34 AM
The answer is independent police commission like the EC or the judiciary.

But that would not be palatable for Muslim Indians.
ANBanerjee
Newcastle, United Kingdom
10/D-26
Sep 14, 2009
06:45 AM
Dear saraswathi, I would not like to enter into a debate because it will be never ending. But I do have problems when people like you look at only one side of the story and make judgements. please do a google search for"roots in kashmir" , and " My memories of religious terror in kashmir" in the newsweek read the materials posted on different dates on this site. You will get a better picture of what I meant. Neither Sadhvi nor Vanzara were born communal.They were raised on perceived notions of victimhood.
I will tell you this further- When during the gujrat riots someone confronted the hindu mobs ,they were swiftly put down with the following questions- where was your voice when the kashmiri pandits were religiously cleansed from the valley?
Frankly speaking I have no answers as well to this question .
Our human rights wallahs and government who go from studio to studio defending the rights of one particular community aka muslims ,did not find it glamorous enough to raise the issue of the rights of minorities in kashmir.
They are today a forgotton lot.Government of India which calls the tibetians refugees does not extend the same designation to the displaced people of kashmir ,since they are not a vote bank.
I speaking on this issue because I have seen their plight first hand for the past 10 years or so.They live in camps in delhi and usually come to residences once in a year requesting for financial help from fellow indians. I am glad that every year for the past 10 years I have contributed generously towards this.
It breaks your heart to hear their stories.Most of them victims because they refused to convert/ marry off their daughters to muslim men.
While I do not accept any kind of violence ,I do believe that we need to see both sides of the coin before drawing conclusions
priya
delhi, India
11/D-27
Sep 14, 2009
07:02 AM
Also saraswati, I missed the following- self professed ,publicity seeking human rights wallahs like arundhati roy, will go all over the place telling india should accept what the majority in kshmir want(read as justification for the macabre religious cleansing that has been taking place for many many years) . Someone should ask her whether she would advocate the same for gujrat as well by the same logic?
priya
delhi, India
12/D-44
Sep 14, 2009
11:35 AM
Dear Priya: It's a pleasure discussing with you, though your arguments are more emotional and less logical.

"Neither Sadhvi nor Vanzara were born communal.They were raised on perceived notions of victimhood"

This is precisely how terrorists are created.

For a moment let us apply the above statement to young boys in Madrasas ... isn't it true youngsters are indoctrinated with notions of victimhood? ... should we defend them for their criminal actions? By your logic the perpetrators of 9/11 were victims and they are justified in thier action!!

"When during the gujrat riots someone confronted the hindu mobs ,they were swiftly put down with the following questions- where was your voice when the kashmiri pandits were religiously cleansed from the valley?"

Suppose the Vietnamese were to apply this logic and start killing Americans ... would you justify that? Even victims of Vietnam understood this point but you don't seem to get it.

"Our human rights wallahs and government who go from studio to studio defending the rights of one particular community aka muslims ,did not find it glamorous enough to raise the issue of the rights of minorities in kashmir"

Hitler's Nazis & youth league accued human rights activist (Germans) of defending only Jews without having concern for majority German christians. They unleashed ethnic cleansing. All those emotionally engaged in the issue and logically challenged, supported the Nazi attrocities. Though in majority, the Nazis were crushed and defeated. Please don't end up that way.

Arundhati Roy stood by the people of Narmada Valley. Where were you when thousands of poor were uprooted from their land, no compensation paid and families destroyed for ever?

I have always stood by the rights of Kashmiri pundits. Successive Congress and BJP governments' militarization policy has weakened the Pundit's case. Muslim communal politics played by the Abdullah family and Mufti family has given an upper hand for the muslim communal elements.

It's very sad to see political parties making a mockery of Kashmiri pundits (by making them tonsure their heads in public) for consolodating their vote bank in Delhi. The political parties know very well that the case of Pundits is lost for ever.
Saraswathi
Zurich, Switzerland
13/D-76
Sep 14, 2009
03:16 PM
saraswati,
Istate again I dislike any form of violence whether naxal or otherwise.When there is an emotive content in what I say it is because I have seen the plight of the pandits first hand since I have lived all my life in delhi.
When I said that vanzara or sadhvi were not born communal it was not as if to condone anything they did.
I believe no one is born bad its circumstances that make a person so. If you go through the leaked maharashtra police confessions of the sadhvi etc. you will realise shockingly how these people have lost faith in the efficacy of law to prosecute the terrorists who perpetrate terror strikeseither in the name of babri masjid or rss and bjp.
are you aware most of the people who have died in terror attacks last year in india are poor. they are daily wage labourers,rickshawwallas etc.
very few ambanis and tatas or even nandan nilekanis die.
our govt. thinks 50,000 is adequate compensation for these people.
tell me what do these poor people have to do with either babri masjid or rss and bjp? but they are victimised.
some of these orphans grow up with biases against the other community and vent their hate and anger by resorting to violence thus creating more victims on the other side.
I was only trying to say we must address both sides of the divide.
If you think a bit the crux of this problem begin with partition and the 2 nation theory . fundamentalists hinduand muslim got what they wantedbut left behind deep wounds which rip open every now and then.
if one side says mumbai 26/11 and mumbai 1993 and delhi ahmedabad blasts etc. the other side says gujrat riots,then this side says godhra train burning and the other side says ayodhya and babri masjid,then this side says kashmiri pandits partition and 2 nation theory. This excuse for violence is never ending
priya
delhi, India
14/D-77
Sep 14, 2009
03:19 PM
if arundhati roy did it she did it for publicity.
can she do a dr. binayak sen of chattisgarh who has been in jail for years for raising his voice against the salwa judum?
priya
delhi, India
15/D-140
Sep 14, 2009
11:30 PM
Priya,
Two wrongs dont make one right. If the Sadhvi had lost faith in the Government (to prosecute terrorists) she must be fighting the Government and not killing someone unconnected with terrorism praying in a mosque or standing outside it.

Vanzara, Sadhvi and such others should be given very long jail terms without payroll. I am for abolishing death sentence. These characters are psychopaths.

Arundhathi has earned her place through writing. When she speaks the entire media takes note as many would like to read what she says and how she says. She does not need extra publicity. I am always looking out for her punch lines. She did speak for Dr. Binayak Sen and campaigned for his release. Again where were you?

Arundhati is using her clout to raise issues and publicise causes that are unjustly suppressed by the state. She's using her power well against those misusing power. When you and I speak we end up in outlook columns. Thank outlook for giving us space.
Saraswathi
Zurich, Switzerland
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