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1/D-108
Jun 14, 2009
08:20 AM
"More than the RSS, it is now clear that what made the party viable was Mr. Vajpayee".

Vajpayee was the only reason the BJP won elections in the past. Hate-based politics is short-lived and as we just saw, it will perish and die a slow, painful death.
Reddy
Bangalore, India
2/D-110
Jun 14, 2009
11:39 AM
hello sundeep Dougalji,
Why you are so obsessed with what is happening inside the BJP.you cant write the epithet on its face as its only an electoral setback and not a game over for the BJP as you guys want to project it.Spend some time also to write on your favorite secular jewels like those three musketeers in lalu-Paswan_mulayam.Being secular according to you guys they have lost the face more than the BJP.stop postmorteming the the performance of the BJP and save your credibility as such OUTLOOK has come to known as pro congress media.
stopperbhai
Bangalore, India
3/D-112
Jun 14, 2009
12:24 PM
This type of bloggers never wrote when Congress was going down the barrel,at 112 seats from 415 seats.Nor about the shameless lie that Sonia told President Narayanan that she has 272 MPs with her.Congress party need not spend a rupee on campaigning with the types of Dougal,Barkha Dutt,Rajdeep Sardesai,and a legion of lackies.
S.S.Nagaraj
Bangalore, India
4/D-114
Jun 14, 2009
01:40 PM
Pratap Bhanu mehta observation is apt right, whichever way you look, it is fault of others only for the Cheddis. Even the comments here is the same variety, playing victimhood, for a change media not Muslims.

You hardly see in any nation a party based solely on so called grievances that too on a samll minority of 12%.

How insecure can you be( party of little men), that you would expect fear mongering to fetch you votes??
Zulfiquar Ali KHan
bangalore, india
5/D-126
Jun 14, 2009
06:59 PM
One term in power, after fifty years in the Opposition, and the BJP began to think of itself as the natural party of governance. 2004 and 2009 have provided a reality check. Even so, it would be wrong to write off the party or to predict that it will fall to the 50-75 seats level. Its governments in some states are providing good governance. It has several good leaders in the next generation who should be allowed to grow. L. K. Advani may not be an asset for the future.
ashok lal
mumbai, India
6/D-127
Jun 14, 2009
07:05 PM
It is a good thing that the oldies in the BJP are venting out and getting marginalised.

BJP should ignore the advice from the so called "secularists". In Tamil there is a saying, "wolf is crying that goat is getting drenched in rain"

I've said this before. The Dravidian movement was in the margins but continued its propaganda and established mass base among Tamils for 40 years before it became unassailable.

That's the same strategy to follow for BJP, establish mass base among its target electorate.There is no easy short cuts.
Selvan
Boston, United States
7/D-128
Jun 14, 2009
07:30 PM
mistake : it is Anil Chawla not Arun Chawla
anshul
indore, india
8/D-118
Jun 15, 2009
02:57 AM
zulfi -- "How insecure can you be( party of little men), that you would expect fear mongering to fetch you votes??"

Unfortunately fear-mongering is a proven method for getting votes, not just in India but elsewhere as well. The hard-right Republicans did just that in the U.S. and mister Bush was elected-re-elected for 8 long years, despite dragging their economy into the mud.

Which is why, instead of just gutting the BJP, the ideal solution would be to drive a stake deep into its black, ugly heart and make sure hate-driven parties do not ever survive in the Indian political landscape. Its wishful thinking but clearly Indians have shown they dont have use for morally bankrupt parties like the BJP.
Reddy
Bangalore, India
9/D-119
Jun 15, 2009
05:39 AM
"The Dravidian movement was in the margins but continued its propaganda and established mass base among Tamils for 40 years before it became unassailable."

The social reform tenets of the original Dravidian movement, which was propagated by Periyar and others died a long time ago. The mass support the movement enjoyed for a brief time was co-opted into the political morass of present day Tamil politics. The various, insidious strains of the DMK (AIADMK, DMK, MDMK) have nothing to do with the rationalist, atheistic origins of Periyar's ideology. Ofcourse, they use the rhetoric of rationalism and Tamil unity, but thats just to gain electoral votes (if you witnessed the spectacle of Karunanidhi and Jayalalitha falling over themselves to claim support for Eelam !!!) and has nothing to do with Dravidianism. Further, their attempts to forge unity with the BJP and RSS is evidence of their depravity.

Hindutva and Dravidianism come from the exact opposite end of the spectrum, in terms of ideology, nationalism and religion. The political realisation of Dravidian politics however is reminiscent of the failure of todays BJP (!!) and to that extent the parallels exist.
Reddy
Bangalore, India
10/D-120
Jun 15, 2009
05:59 AM
******
Hindutva and Dravidianism come from the exact opposite end of the spectrum, in terms of ideology, nationalism and religion.
******

Dravidianism is anti-Hindu whereas Hindutva is pro Hindu. the differences end there. Otherwise there are lots of similarities.

BJP can follow the success of Dravidian movement. But that takes hard work and no short cuts.
Selvan
Boston, United States
11/D-121
Jun 15, 2009
06:15 AM
"BJP can follow the success of Dravidian movement. But that takes hard work and no short cuts."

What you mean is the BJP can follow the success of the DMK right ? Because Dravidianism was a movement and the politicization of the movement created these parties, which as i said eralier, are detached from the Dravidian movement that spawned them.

Dravidianism was based on social reform and representation of the oppressed classes. Hindutva is based on the regressive prorogation of hate-based ideologies and entrenchment of Brahmanism. I don't see the similarities.
Reddy
Bangalore, India
12/D-125
Jun 15, 2009
01:04 PM
Mr Reddy garu,
Mr Selvan clearly mentioned that Dravidian movement waited nearly 40 years to establish its base as a political establishment in TN. He never compared both in terms of ideological aspects!!!

BJP ideology is far superior and broader than narrow minded Dravidian ideologies which are basically anti-Brahmins & anti-Hindu (cutting sacred threads, abusing Brahmin women in open forums, wearing cheppal garlands to Hindu dieties, abuse Hindu Gods etc...).

If Hindus to live in India without losing their identities, BJP's emminense is a must! You may not like it but thats the face.
Ram
Kerela, India
13/D-129
Jun 15, 2009
09:52 PM
Mr. Reddy from Bangalore,

If you know how to read Tamil I'd suggest some pointers. Goto www.viduthalai.com a tamil daily from DK, parent org. of DMK/ADMK etc.. They frequently carry articles and news reports from the early 1920s. That will be informative for you and you'd realise why I asked BJP to follow the Dravidian technique.
Selvan
Boston, United States
14/D-122
Jun 16, 2009
04:51 AM
People are talking, as if Mr. Vajpayee was not part of BJP when Babari Masjid was demolished, that Mr. Vajpayee rejected support from RSS, that he rejected support from VHP, that Mr. Vajpayee had nothing to do when racial riot broke out in Gujarat, that when Mr. Vajpayee was active, the party was all 'Love, Love' and now that he is inactive, all of a sudden the party is transformed into 'Hate, Hate'.
P.B. Joshipura
Suffolk, Virginia, United States
15/D-124
Jun 16, 2009
10:32 AM
--"BJP ideology is far superior and broader than narrow minded Dravidian ideologies which are basically anti-Brahmins & anti-Hindu (cutting sacred threads, abusing Brahmin women in open forums, wearing cheppal garlands to Hindu dieties, abuse Hindu Gods etc...)."

And of course since you say so, it must be the holy truth. As far as im concerned Mullah Ram is identical to Mullah Omar.

As for wearing chappal gralands i think its a brilliant gesture to show their displeasure at Hinduism in general !

p.b.joshpura i agree with you. Vajpayee was as culpable as the rest of the demagogues. He gave off a milder vibe but that was on the surface. he was definitely far more acceptable politically.
Reddy
Bangalore, India
16/D-126
Jun 16, 2009
11:54 AM
Mr Reddy Mulla,

Why don't you try to show your dissent by garlending with Cheppals when you go for Friday prayers in Mosque? Can you come out alive?

Mulla Omar has already taken two COuntry out of the Bharath Map, while Ram is trying to Unite Bharath from Aggan to Myanmar!!
Ram
Kerela, India
17/D-132
Jun 16, 2009
04:39 PM
@Selvan
>>>>Dravidianism is anti-Hindu whereas Hindutva is pro Hindu. the differences end there. Otherwise there are lots of similarities.

Noooo!

Dravidism is about Anti-Brahminism, rejection of Brahmanical rituals and caste system.

Hindutva is about acceptance/perpetuating of all Brahminic ritual and Caste system.
Zulfiquar Ali KHan
bangalore, india
18/D-133
Jun 16, 2009
05:28 PM
Zulfikar Ali Khan

*************
Dravidism is about Anti-Brahminism, rejection of Brahmanical rituals and caste system.
Hindutva is about acceptance/perpetuating of all Brahminic ritual and Caste system.
*************

My advice to Reddy applies to you, you are welcome to read viduthalai, the DK daily to find out for yourself.

It is a well known fact that the Dravidian movement is against Hinduism.
Selvan
Boston, United States
19/D-134
Jun 16, 2009
05:30 PM
It is also true that Dravidian movement is virulently against Brahminism. Even now they ridicule Brahmins every day and blame them for all the ills of Tamil nadu.
Selvan
Boston, United States
20/D-137
Jun 16, 2009
08:17 PM
--"It is also true that Dravidian movement is virulently against Brahminism."

This is true and they should be. Brahmanism has been the curse of Indian society for millenia. The elders of the Dravidian movement recognized the virulent nature of Brahmanism and rejected it. Also, please shelve your advice. If i need 'advice' ill see a shrink !!
Reddy
Bangalore, India
21/D-62
Jun 17, 2009
12:25 AM
That great Israeli PM BEN Gurion once said: All the experts in the world are exprt on things which have happened they hjave nary a clue about thigns to happen.

There was surfeit of articles after NDA's relection in 1999 about how congress is finsihed.> Now we see similar nonsensical stories about how BJP and NDa is finished.
Fickleness of elections in INDia can be gauged from the fact that Mayawati's vote share has gone up in UP since last assembly election yet her number of seats has gone down.
You will see pundits saying how Maywati has lost base.

Give these nonsensical theoies a rest. I know you guys are paiod to write but that doesn;t meat you start spewing nonsense
Anil
Toronto, Canada
22/D-66
Jun 17, 2009
12:27 AM
Hey Rajeev gandhi despite not raising his finger while his hitmen were butchering sikhs in delhi.> Mind you 4000 were killed not even single killer was harmed by police.. RajiV gandhi despite making sure noen of the killers yes not even small time ones get justice can be considered secular then everybody is secular.

Moreover in India 99.9999%riots have been presided over by congress so either they are incompetent or communla take yoour pick. Either way they are not desirable.
Anil
Toronto, Canada
23/D-68
Jun 17, 2009
12:29 AM
Why is Babri Mosque deloition even an issue it was hindu temple>> midn you Rajeev Gandhi opend the lock and what hindus do with their temples is their concern.. Moroever how come nto even single word about close to 600 temples vanishing between 1990 to 1992 in Kashmir..


Mind you even before BJP Rajev Gandhi first appeased muslim through Shah Bano nonsens and then came unlocking of Babri temple.. he is the real cuplrit
Anil
Toronto, Canada
24/D-79
Jun 17, 2009
01:35 AM
****
Also, please shelve your advice. If i need 'advice' ill see a shrink !!
****

Well it is upto you to either argue based on facts and truth or to continue with your biased views.

If you want to learn about Dravidian movement there is no better place to start other than reading their own literature, they do have an English website, you can get the links from www.viduthalai.com
Selvan
Boston, United States
25/D-82
Jun 17, 2009
03:52 AM
My theory is right. The BJP's largest support base is amongst NRI's. While us Indians (who live here and decide our own future have chosen and chosen wisely), the BJP supporters who have mostly abandoned India cannot seem to reconcile themselves to the fact that they are insignificant. No amount of monetary support from the U.S. and Canada is going to pull the BJP out of its rut.

Even if the BJP gives up Hindutva it will not survive because its been tainted by the Sangh brotherhood. The best course of action is to either give up politics altogether or completely renounce hate-based politics and come to terms with modern India.
Reddy
Bangalore, India
26/D-84
Jun 17, 2009
04:22 PM
if electoral losses can finish off a party Congress should have been dead by 1999.

I see that around 19% of the indian electorate has voted for BJP, not the NRIs. :-).

The goal of BJP to increase that share to around 30%. It can easily do that by following the model of Dravidian movement. They should just brush up on history and employ the techniques used by the Dravidian movement among Tamils.
Selvan
Boston, United States
27/D-85
Jun 17, 2009
04:45 PM
Whether Mullas like it or not, BJP will come to power. WHen it was initially contested during 1985, they had given 50 years to form its own government, but BJP did it with allies in 1998 itself. So going by BJPs own projection they were ahead of the curve. There is a dent in electorate now, so long HIndus vote for Unity, Integrity, Prosperity and not for Corruption, Inefficiency, Sycophancy, Dynasty - India will continue to be a HELL HOLE under Congress Government (for the past 60 years they ruled but no significant improvement comapred to other nations)
Ram
Kerela, India
28/D-87
Jun 17, 2009
06:14 PM
Has Vir Sanghavi said one constructive thing about BJP - ever? He is the foremost Narad Muni-Mama Shakuni among ELM big shots so it is useless to quote a known Sonia chamcha / bhat-charan who is verily a resident of her petticoat.
Gopi Maliwal
Hong Kong, Hong Kong
29/D-88
Jun 17, 2009
07:14 PM
Mr casteist Reddy from Andhra what will you do now too many people from india voicing in support of BJP..I have few reddy freinds from Andhra here and their undiluted hatred from naidoo's is a sight to behold.. these people are lecturing a party based on nationalism sansa all this religion caste drama..



BTW I always asked this for thise psec pandits Narendra Modi Vajpayee Advani in fact anyone from BJP was always criminal why bother about what they say
Anil
Toronto, Canada
30/D-57
Jun 18, 2009
07:42 AM
"so long HIndus vote for Unity, Integrity, Prosperity and not for Corruption, Inefficiency, Sycophancy, Dynasty"

Are you suggesting that the BJP Govt is clean as a whistle ?!! Tehelka anyone ?? Do you even remember the events from the past ? I know BJP supporters have the memory span of a gnat ... but
Reddy
Bangalore, India
31/D-58
Jun 18, 2009
07:45 AM
"Mr casteist Reddy from Andhra what will you do now too many people from india voicing in support of BJP."

What exactly are you saying ? Your posts are all over the map and completely incoherent. If this is a personal attack im not surprised in the least bit - its the only thing Sanghi's are capable of, however , if too many people from India are supporting the BJP why did they lose ?!! Are you looking up the results from 15 years ago ?!! Hilarious ...
Reddy
Bangalore, India
32/D-59
Jun 18, 2009
09:44 AM
Varun Gandhi's diabolical speech in which he targeted the Muslims (using epithets that would not be used in worst hate forums), was a last minute strategy by the BJP to polarize the hard line Hindu electorate. Last time, they came up with a CD that demonized the minority community. All the guns have fallen silent once the BJP got an ignominious defeat in the Lok sabha elections. The eerie silence of the bajrangis is all too omnipresent now and is also palpable on this forum. Where are the khaki rats? Jumped off the sinking ship? The BJP must realize that people of India are coming of age and would not be fooled by its political "gimmicks" such as the Babri mosque demolition, that it effected solely in order to win the hard liners amongst the Hindu community (of course, "gimmicks" would not be an appropriate word in semantics to describe what was perceived as a tragedy of gargantuan proportions by the minorities).
The BJP must realize that (in case it desires to thrive politically) that using the communal plank it cannot any longer muster up a majority needed to walk into the corridors of the Lok Sabha. Of course, polarization of the Hindu electorate can occur in some historically vulnerable places such as Karnataka, Gujarat or Chattisgarh). The BJP must come up with a broad based strategy that quintessentially includes progress as an inalienable part. Only then will it appease the moderate sections of society. The Lok Sabha polls have amply exhibited that there is a glut of moderate voters, who easily outnumber those who are gullible and likely to fall into the communal trap laid down by the BJP. You need not be a Sudheendra Kulkarni to understand this. It has emerged as a common sense even for a political layman. Forsaking the path of moderation and progress of the society, the BJP would most likely commit a political hara kiri.
Vivek Chatterjee
Calcutta, India
33/D-60
Jun 18, 2009
10:23 AM
"Where are the khaki rats?"

LOL !! They do pop up and squeak occasionally on these forums !
Reddy
Bangalore, India
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