Dr Afroz Taj, associate professor in the department of Asian studies at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill, USA, came to the U.S. in 1981 as a student and stayed on to teach a host of courses related to South Asia. He has set up online Hindi and Urdu learning tools using the grant of one million dollars from the United States department of education, the first of its kind to promote a South Asian language in the U.S. Besides, he also anchors a radio show, Geet Bazaar, on Channel FM in North Carolina in a bid to perpetuate Indian culture. He speaks to Outlook correspondent Abhijit Mazumdar in New Delhi.
Abhijit Mazumdar: How did this unique concept to have an online tool to learn Hindi and Urdu evolve?
Dr Afroz Taj: In 1995 I was appointed to teach Hindi and Urdu under a joint collaboration of the University of North Carolina with the North Carolina State University and Duke University in USA. This collaboration was funded through a federal grant to the South Asia Consortium for teaching foreign languages. I taught for a total eight years— Hindi and Urdu for five years and advanced Hindi for another three years. It was then I envisaged a plan to develop an online tool to teach Hindi and Urdu.
Did the U.S. department of education have any condition for funding your plan?
They wanted the online tools to be made available to everyone for free. They also wanted that there would be no profit made out of it. The plan allocated $500,000 for Hindi and as much for Urdu. It is the largest grant from the U.S. government for any South Asian language.
Tell us a bit about the Hindi and Urdu portals?
A Door Into Hindi comprises tutorials on Hindi while Darvazah has chapters in Urdu. Each tool has 24 progressively advanced tutorials comprising videos, animations, jokes, each aimed at drawing the learner closer to the language. Each video lasts 15-20 minutes, while the accompanying text describes the grammar, synonyms, among other issues related to what was shown in the video.
Are the online tutorials interactive?
Yes, they are. Whenever one does not understand what has been said he has several options to choose from, including having a person explain the meaning and context of the words or phrases used or listening to similar examples based on the problem or looking up animations.
Is it possible to alter the online tools?
No one can amend or alter the online tools, though they can be accessed by everyone across the world.
How many have benefitted from the online tools?
It would be difficult to put a number to it, but I guess it would be in millions from across the globe, including those of South Asian descent now residing in other parts of the world. Also, the online tools are part of university syllabi in many universities in the U.S. The book Teach Yourself Hindi by Rupert Snell, which is considered as the Bible for learning Hindi in the U.S. and Europe has a reference to my online tools. I have synchronized the online tutorials in accordance with the chapters in Snell’s book.
What’s one big advantage the online tutorials offer to students?
Students do not have to buy expensive books. The book makes learning free and also full of fun using Bollywood movie clips, jokes, among other things. This makes learning languages effortless, and cuts down on time too.
Do you use old or new Bollywood movies in your tutorials?
Most of the time old movies have been used, because such movies have a dignity and purity of language. Learning is facilitated by watching such videos as to impart articulate speech. Similarly, the songs used in these tutorials are of a generation gone by, because diction is clean and it is easier to follow words in them in comparison with new Bollywood numbers which comprise more of music and less of words.
How many years did it take you to design the online tools?
It took me three years each for Hindi and Urdu tools. Basically, I designed the Hindi tool first after which I used the template to design the Urdu tool.
You have a PhD in Indian poetic drama. What drew you to languages?
In the U.S. one does not need to have a PhD to teach languages. I love teaching Urdu and Hindi. Among the various courses I teach are Bollywood Cinema, South Asian Media, South Asian culture and literature, and a seminar on South Asian media.
How do you introduce Hindi and Urdu to your students in class?
Hindi and Urdu combined are the second-most spoken languages in the world. Like English, it is an Indo European language. In my first class, I draw parallel between words in English and Hindi-Urdu, for instance, “naam” and “name” carry the same meaning, while sounding similar. Same applies to “song” and “sangeet.”
Do many of your students take up languages as a career?
Many have done so over the past many years. My student Torrey Goad until recently held a senior position in the U.S. embassy at New Delhi. Others have returned to India for employment, while many more have got India postings with international organizations, including the World Bank. One of them returned to India to get married! Many students at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill who are researching South Asia-related topics study Hindi and Urdu to facilitate their research and travel to South Asia.
Besides being a teacher, you also host a show on FM radio in USA?
Every Sunday I anchor a show called Geet Bazaar on 88.1 FM in North Carolina. My focus remains perpetuating Indian culture among the expatriate community. My show plays out songs, bhajans and other kinds of Indian music on demand. Also, interviews of South Asians of eminence living or visiting North Carolina are also broadcast. People from as far away as Delhi request songs dedicated to their loved ones living in North Carolina.
What is the difference between youth of India origin brought up in the U.S. and other Indians living there?
Why only the U.S., even the elite and the rich in India care less for their culture. We use our radio programme to promote India culture. I tell my listeners that Hindi is important across the world, and one should not neglect it. To lure my youth listeners, I begin speaking in English, only to quickly move on to Hindi for the rest of the program.
Thank you to all those who have taken the trouble to read the article and share their thoughts. Out of the arguments made here, there are two that perhaps need answering. So here they go.
1. The first part of the article compares outcomes (relative percentages of population of the religions concerned) irrespective of the process that led to those outcomes - whether immigration, relatively faster population growth or conversions. This was for two reasons. One, to put the figure of 2.3 per cent in "numerical perspective", as the article itself explained. The second reason was that outcomes are ultimately what the crux of debate is about. The rest of the article in any case dealt with process - or conversions in this case, from both a contemporary and historical perspective.
2. Some commenters have tried to cast doubts on the reliability of Census 2001. Those who do this should bear in mind that Census 2001 was conducted by a BJP government. Considering the extreme importance that BJP gives to this issue, it would be reasonable to expect that IF it had perceived a problem with the methodology that was distorting the numbers, it would have fixed it. As the article mentioned, BJP or BJP-supported governments have been in power for 10 of the last 40 years, or about a quarter of the time, and the only reasonable conclusion one can arrive at is that any misreporting of numbers, real or perceived, would be marginal and hence, not of importance.
To all other arguments made, my answer is the following: Please read the article again, with particular focus on the quotations of Vivekananda and Monier Williams, and the history of the missionary efforts in Bengal and their outcome.
I am rather curious to know whether lessons of these two languages, Hindi and Urdu, are available in the script in which each language is usually written in India and Pakistan or whether roman script is used. What is the preference of the students of Indian or Pakistani origin and American (Western) students? Readers of Outlook may be interested to know that an organization called ‘Roman Lipi Parishad’ was established by an enthusiast in Nashik, in Maharashtra. The founder of the organization spent money from his pocket to propagate use of roman script for Marathi and other Indian languages since it was his firm conviction that roman script was ideal for learning, and widespread use, of different Indian language. I personally believe that phonetic and pronunciation problems may be a major constraint, which limits use of the roman script.
This "professor" clearly has no understanding of comparative linguistics. The English "song" indeed has a Proto-Germanic root [sangwaz], but it has no known cognates in any non-Germanic IE language. And it is most definitely not related to Hindi "sangeet".
The Hindi "sangeet" is not a native Hindi word, but a latter-day borrowing from Sanskrit "samgeeta", which is simply a compound of the prefix "sam" (meaning 'together', cognate with English "same" or Persian "ham" as in "ham-raahi") and the past participle "geeta" of the Parasmaipadi verb "gai" (to sing).
I tried Darwaza again and nothing has changed. There are several links that are still not working. I prefer Mr. Nihal Usmani's lessons on youtube. They are far better then Darwaza and Mr Usmani is far more responsive in answering your queries as compared to darwaza. There are several links for Mr Usmani : learn urdu througfh Hindi, learn Urdu through poetry, Readings in Urdu and Urdu writing as well. I have been using it from last two years and is probably the best. Darwaza is more hype and provides no support.
Sad that it was the US that funded an on-line tool to learn Hindi/Urdu rather than India. I have been looking for on-line lessons for years without success. I hope these work and turn out to be good. The one or two CDs that I picked up at the local library in the US were useless beyond belief. There are great on-line lessons for many of the European languages. Time for entities in India to fund more such on-line lessons to make learning Indian languages easier. I'm sure the Indian diaspora, not to speak of people in India, will be enthusiastic users of competent lessons.
I tried Darwaza two years back and half of the site did not work. I contacted Dr Afroz Taz without success. Wiil give it a go again.
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