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Charged Shah at Magistrate Dave’s home
gujarat: amit shah case
It Makes A Racket
Will his junior home minister’s doings be Narendra Modi’s undoing?

L’affaire Sohrabuddin

November 2005: Sohrabuddin Sheikh killed by a joint team of Gujarat ATS and Rajasthan police on the outskirts of Ahmedabad. A petty extortionist, he was claimed to be an LeT man planning the murder of Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi.   Nov 2005: Sohrabuddin's wife Kauser Bi killed in a farm-house outside Ahmedabad by Gujarat ATS. Dec 2006: The lone witness to Sohrabuddin’s killing, Tulsi Prajapati, killed in Banaskantha district by Gujarat and Rajasthan police.
Mar 2007: Sohrabuddin’s brother Rubabuddin files petition before Supreme Court. Gujarat CID admits to a fake encounter. Apr 2007: Modi government admits that Sohrabuddin’s wife too had been killed and her body burnt.   Apr 2007: Three IPS officials, D.G. Vanzara, Rajkumar Pandian of the Gujarat police and M.N. Dinesh of the Rajasthan cadre arrested by Gujarat cid for the fake encounter. Subsequently, 10 other policemen arrested.
Jan 2010: SC transfers case to CBI, indicting Gujarat police for not carrying out investigation in an "impartial manner and trying to subvert the case". CBI team led by P. Kandaswamy and Amitabh Thakur takes over probe.   Apr 2010: CBI makes first arrest by nabbing IPS officer Abhay Chudasama, a close confidant of Gujarat MoS for home Amit Shah. Jul 22: Summoned twice by CBI, Shah dodges public gaze. Doesn’t attend office.
Jul 23: CBI files first chargesheet naming 15 persons, including Amit Shah, two associates and 12 policemen. His anticipatory bail declined, Shah finally resigns. IPS officer N.K. Amin turns approver.  

Not even in his worst nightmares would Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi have imagined that his protege and minister state for home Amit Shah would go to jail facing charges of criminal conspiracy, twin murder, extortion, abduction and destruction of evidence in the ‘staged’ killing of gangster Sohrabuddin Sheikh and his wife Kauser Bi in November 2005. Shah, who surrendered on July 25 after being chargesheeted by the CBI, has been Modi’s junior home minister since January 2003 after the Gujarat strongman’s landslide victory in the assembly polls after the 2002 riots.

For Modi, Shah was crucial in many respects as he was handling all the important cases related to the 2002 riots apart from managing the home and law departments. He is supposed to be to Modi what Modi is to Advani. “In a way, it’s a big setback for the CM because Amitbhai was indispensable for him. He was seen as Narendra Modi’s shadow,” says a secretary in the government.

The case against Shah began rather innocuously. On November 26, 2005, the Gujarat anti-terrorism squad (ATS), headed by DIG D.G. Vanzara, called a press conference in Gandhinagar to announce the killing of “LeT operative and dreaded terrorist” Sohrabuddin in a police encounter by a joint team of the Gujarat and Rajasthan police. Vanzara, who as the DCP of the Ahmedabad crime branch prior to his ATS posting had already carried out more than a half-a-dozen encounters in which 15 people were killed, claimed the terrorist was on a mission to “kill Gujarat CM Narendra Modi” and was intercepted on Ahmedabad’s outskirts where he was killed in a gunbattle.

Things, however, took a new turn in March 2007 when a probe by the Gujarat police established that Sohrabuddin’s killing was a fake encounter. The police admitted this before the Supreme Court in reply to a petition filed by Sohrabuddin’s brother Rubabuddin. A month later, Vanzara, Rajkumar Pandian of the Gujarat police and M.N. Dinesh of the Rajasthan police were arrested.

However, after more twists and turns, the apex court, which was monitoring the probe from the start, indicted the Gujarat police for botching up the investigation and handed it over to the CBI this January. Six months on, the agency has established that extortion was the main motive for killing Sohrabuddin. His wife Kauser Bi and his accomplice Tulsi Prajapati were killed to eliminate the two key eyewitnesses to the encounter.

The 2,000-page chargesheet filed by the agency before a special CBI court in Ahmedabad on July 23 names 15 persons, including Shah, for serious offences like abduction, criminal conspiracy, murder and extortion. According to the CBI, Shah and his trusted police officials—Vanzara, Pandian and Abhay Chudasama—were running an extortion racket in Ahmedabad and used Sohrabuddin, an underworld operative, to extort money from businessmen and builders. Patel brothers Raman and Dashrath, victims of the racket, in their testimony before a magistrate under section 164 of the CrPC, admissible evidence in court, stated: “We were falsely implicated in a firing case, staged-managed by the police with the blessings of Shah. We were first asked to name Sohrabuddin as the person who executed the firing at our Ahmedabad office and subsequently we were accused of hiring the underworld to settle personal rivalries. To settle the matter, we paid Rs 60 lakh to Vanzara, Rs 40 lakh to Abhay Chudasama and Rs 70 lakh to Amitbhai Shah, on whose behalf his middleman Ajay Patel collected money and delivered it to him.”

The CBI has established that the shooting at the Patel brothers’ office was staged by Chudasama, who sought Sohrabuddin’s help. The latter got the job done through Prajapati and Sylvester.

The ATS also picked up Zahid Kadri, another businessman who knew Sohrabuddin, and subjected him to torture. He was let off only after he paid Rs 40 lakh. Kadri too has given his testimony before a magistrate.

After DCP Chudasama’s arrest this April, the CBI summoned Shah’s associates and middlemen Ajay Patel and Yashpal Chudasama, chairman and director of the Ahmedabad District Cooperative Bank. In their video-recorded statement to the CBI, both have admitted to their role in extortion, bribing and threatening certain witnesses in the case. Patel also admitted that he received Rs 70 lakh in three instalments on Shah’s behalf and had the money delivered to Shah.

To make the case against Shah and his trusted cops watertight, the CBI has adopted the following strategy:

  • It has allowed one of the accused cops, SP N.K. Amin, to turn approver, which will help in establishing the murder of Kauser Bi. She was murdered at a farmhouse outside Ahmedabad and her body burnt later at Illol village in north Gujarat. Vanzara hails from this village.
  • It also wants former IPS officer G.C. Raiger and serving IPS officer Geetha Johri to be witnesses. Both dealt with the investigation when the probe was with the Gujarat police. Raiger was additional DG, CID (crime), and was transferred overnight when he refused to help in the investigation. According to the CBI, Shah put pressure on Raiger and Johri, who headed the SIT probing the Sohrabuddin encounter, to weaken the case, destroy evidence and slow the pace of the investigation. “We have asked Raiger and Geetha Johri to cooperate with the process of investigation or face the music,” says a CBI official. “Once they testify for prosecution, it will help in establishing that Shah had tried to hamper the investigations and destroyed evidence.”

With the noose around his neck tightening and the CBI questioning him at length, more skeletons are likely to tumble out of Shah’s closet. Whether Shah reveals any links with Modi to imply the CM was in the know of the extortion racket he and some top cops were running is a moot point. But it’s already stirred a political hornet’s nest.

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COLLAPSE COMMENTS :
HAVE YOUR SAY
Jul 31, 2010 03:21 PM
1
Is this special correspondent from the Congress?.. why no names?. he..he.. :-)

Outlook and the secular press has been predicting Narendra Modiji's "undoing" for a lot of reasons and for a long time since eons.. Good luck this time..
Selvan
Boston, United States
Jul 31, 2010 10:03 PM
2
How is that the article does not mention Javed Akhtar and Teesta Setalvad who have taken all the initiative in taking up the case with supreme court? For this duo,Amit Shah is not the target but it is that much hated Narendra Modi.
S.S.Nagaraj
Bangalore, India
Aug 01, 2010 12:51 AM
3
If with such an extortion racket and Murder Inc involving so many of Gujarat's top police officers as well as the Home Minister of State, Modi was unaware of what was going on, he would be branded inefficient. But his image is of one who is fully in charge. No wonder he is now trying to turn public opinion against the CBI!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 01, 2010 07:31 PM
4
Notice - as long as it is only the MALES who were suffering - extorted, jailed or killed, as the 'case' may be, the media pretended NOT to notice.

But when it so happened that a WOMAN happened to be killed by the same mafia, the whole system tilted against the accused - from the supremest of Indian courts, to the most anti-male of Indian media.

SeX is the new ReligioN; GendeR is the new CastE!

WAKE UP, MALES! SPEAK UP!
Male unblocked
Chennai, India
Aug 01, 2010 08:01 PM
5
Now it is beyond any doubt that Modi’s gone for ever. Of all the scheming by Modi and his men in Gujarat for the sole purpose of wiping out Islam from the face of earth, the affair of Sohrabuddin Sheikh is only a mere tip of a huge iceberg. ‘Our CBI ‘ is now in possession of the unpublished portions of the Wiki Leaks documents about the war in Afghanistan and Iraq delivered to them by special courier from Julian Assange exclusively for their use. And it tells it all. If it is not evidence against Modi, nothing else will be evidence against anybody about anything.

It is Modi who was said to be instrumental in finally convincing George Bush about WMD in Iraq and forcing the latter’s hand to attack Iraq to save human civilization as revealed in these documents. He is also said to be behind planting stories about WMD in Iraq in New York Times. How cunning was Modi in his attempt to cover his tracks could be seen from the drama he enacted about his U.S visa giving the impression that he had no relation at all with Bush. Wiki Leaks in ‘our CBI’ hands also reveals that it is the same Modi who forced Obama to send additional troops to Afghanistan. All it resulted in murdering a million Muslims and crippling men, women and children ten times more. Do you think Modi deserves any sympathy?

But there is more. After receiving these documents if you think ‘our CBI’ did sit idle then you are wrong.. They connected dots and what did they find? It is that there is no place in the world where his long arms do not reach. He is behind manipulating the plebiscite in Switzerland for not allowing construction of mosques with minarets. He arranged the purchasing of lawmakers in France and Spain to vote against wearing of veils by decent women. He is now busy behind the campaign against construction of a mosque in New York because it is only two blocks away from the bombed site. What is worse, it is his boys in Gujarat who coined the slogan –“Islam is of the Devil” which will be used in a new campaign to malign Islam not only in the U.S but in the whole world.

Should we not be proud of ‘our CBI’, boys and girls, for the immense service they are rendering us by exposing Modi to save Islam from extinction ably directed by a directed prime minister?
c p narendran
nagpur, india
Aug 01, 2010 09:36 PM
6
Being a novice in matters of law,i do not understand as to how the supreme court has bestowed so much attention on Sohrabuddin fake encounter case,while no interest is evinced in the murder of Swami Lakshmananda by Christian goons.To this day there is no progress in nailing the culprits.Whereas Sohrabuddin was an extortionist,the crime of Swami Lakshmananda was that he ran a girls orphange for tribals of Kandhamal.
S.S.Nagaraj
Bangalore, India
Aug 01, 2010 09:52 PM
7
>> Being a novice in matters of law,i do not understand as to how the supreme court has bestowed so much attention on Sohrabuddin ...

The Supreme court focuses on many cases. They have their hands full. It is the BJP which made a mockery of itself by making peculiar arguments like saying that other pending cases should be paid attention first or that a case against Amit Shah is a case against Gujarat itself etc.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Aug 02, 2010 12:21 AM
8
>> The Supreme court focuses on many cases. They have their hands full.

There are over 1700 cases of encounter killings pending before courts and commissions.

The courts, for whatever reason, have chosen to focus on this. BJP is not wrong in pointing this out.
Whats InAName
San Francisco, United States
Aug 02, 2010 01:26 AM
9
>> Of all the scheming by Modi and his men in Gujarat for the sole purpose of wiping out Islam from the face of earth, the affair of Sohrabuddin Sheikh is only a mere tip of a huge iceberg.

Killing Sohrabuddin had nothing to do with his being Muslim. Tulsi Prajapati, a Hindu, was also killed by the same so-callled "Police". It was all about extortion and similar mafia like activities.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 02, 2010 01:31 AM
10
>> "....how the supreme court has bestowed so much attention on Sohrabuddin fake encounter case,while no interest is evinced in the murder of Swami Lakshmananda by Christian goons."

Investigation of murders is the business of state authorities, except when state authorities themselves are murderers.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 02, 2010 06:30 AM
11
Corrupt cops must be given no special privileges, no matter which state or which party is in power.
However, judging from all available evidence to date, only BJP-ruled states have been singled-out by the butt-licking Cong-owned CBI as worthy of investigation.
Every state has had its share of such 'encounters', but the overwhelming majority occurred under Congress govts, yet no such CBI enquiry has been called for.
Isn't anyone even the slightest bit curious about the reasons for these glaring omissions by Cong's very-own CBI?
Bodh
Springfield, United States
Aug 02, 2010 06:51 AM
12
Bodh,

>> only BJP-ruled states have been singled-out by the butt-licking Cong-owned CBI as worthy of investigation.

The CBI did not pick Gujarat. The Supreme Court picked Gujarat. But that would make no difference to a butt-licking sanghi like you.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 02, 2010 07:00 AM
13
>> The CBI did not pick Gujarat. The Supreme Court picked Gujarat. But that would make no difference to a butt-licking sanghi like you.

I've asked this question a couple of times, but no secular has answered this.

The SIT was also ordered by SC to probe the case, but the seculars had no faith in it.

Then what is so wrong if others have no faith in CBI? After all, Congress's record of using it as a political tool, and the CBI's willingness to allow it, sure indicates that such concerns are not misplaced.
Whats InAName
San Francisco, United States
Aug 02, 2010 10:22 AM
14
>>Tulsi Prajapati, a Hindu, was also killed by the same so-callled "Police". It was all about extortion and similar mafia like activities.>>

What more evidence you need to know the absolute cunningness of Modi? The Wiki Leaks documents contain full four pages of details about it. It says that Modi wanted to make it normal ‘secular killing’ as they happen in the Mumbai streets of suspected Muslim criminals in police custody so that just as the congress chief minister does not get blamed, he thought he could also escape. Oh, Heavens, so much cunningness in one man!

But ‘our CBI’ turned out to be smarter to fall into such a trap thanks to the Wiki Leaks documents. That is the reason they say now Modi’s gone for ever. I have it from well informed sources that the article we are discussing is authored by a highly placed CBI man and vetted by those in the highest office in India.
c p narendran
nagpur, india
Aug 02, 2010 12:02 PM
15
" The CBI has given it to the media in advance, and that's what we can see.Don't you see the game that the chargesheet was given to the media much before the court ordered the CBI to give it to Shah?

Only when Shah's lawyer said that unless you give the chargesheet, Shah would not be able to cooperate in the case was the chargesheet handed over to him."

'But when he appeared before the CBI, they arrested him within

"Without questioning Amit Shah they prepared the chargesheet of 30,000 pages and it was kept ready before he reached the CBI office. "

http://news.rediff.c...efends-amit-shah.htm

Hurry to secure convictions in any case to meet deadlines always end in disasters specially if Investigators are being pushed on by the Masters.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 02, 2010 12:32 PM
16
>> What more evidence you need to know the absolute cunningness of Modi?

Pathetic attempt at humor!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 03, 2010 12:18 AM
17
BJP stoops to a new low.

Astonishingly, BJP chief spokesperson Ravi Shankar Prasad and senior leaders Arun Jaitley and Sushma Swaraj rant that Sohrabuddin was a terrorist. Even if this is true, it can't justify his non-judicial execution. Civilised societies put criminals on trial, they don't summarily kill them.

The BJP is increasingly isolating itself from the aspirations and concerns of the Indian people, including the middle class, its sole (and shrinking) constituency. As it gets Modi-fied, the BJP forfeits its claim to being a party which abides by the law of the land and the ground-rules of democracy. Such a party can only have a bleak future

http://www.thedailys...tails.php?nid=148990
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 03, 2010 01:34 AM
18
CBI based on available statements and related documents put a theory that ex home minister of Gujarat Amit shah was part of an extortion racket involving slain notorious gangster Sohrabuddin Sheikh.
Entire case is based on here say, I say. All the evidence are circumstial evidence.
In this type of cases can debatable on either side. Most of this type of cases any very good lawyer can beat it. So it is foolish to say that it is hard evidence.
b b patel
new york, United States
Aug 03, 2010 02:09 AM
19
Amit Shah's lawyer Ram Jethmalani is reported to be planning to move the Supreme Court to recall the order of transfer of the Sohrabuddin case to CBI. Like trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted!
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 03, 2010 03:05 AM
20
"BJP stoops to a new low. "

I was wondering how come no news from resident commie Praful Bidwai as he should be having a field day with what is happening with fake encounter news in Gujrat. Thanks to Anwar, we heard from him at last. His opinion is noted and trashed down the toilet.
Maha
NJ, United States
Aug 03, 2010 05:22 AM
21
@ANWAAR
"Civilised societies put criminals on trial, they don't summarily kill them."

Again, you are making a camofaluged statement. It should have read: ""Civilised societies put MUSLIM criminals on trial, they don't summarily kill them." You have no issues when Azad is killed in AP, or Swami Lakshmanananda is eliminated in Kandhamal. But, if Afzal Gurus, Azmal Kasabs, Israt Jehans, Sohrabuddins etc. are killed, you and your ilks brandish craps around human rights and democratic rights. With the tortoise-speed judiciary that we have, encounters - fake or otherwise - are an unfortunate necessity. You have the choice of opposing it, but then, you should be consistent in your statements irrespective of the caste, creed, color and religion.
The Irreverent Indian
Online, India
Aug 03, 2010 06:42 AM
22
Irreverent,

>> "Civilised societies put criminals on trial, they don't summarily kill them." Again, you are making a camofaluged statement.

It is Praful Bidwai's statement, not mine. But I agree with it. Don't you?

>> You have no issues when Azad is killed in AP, or Swami Lakshmanananda is eliminated in Kandhamal.

You are a liar. I said Azad's death must be fully investigated to see if it was a fake encounter. Nobody said the Swami's murder was a fake encounter, so I don't know why you brought that in.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 03, 2010 12:48 PM
23
Same story, different magazines and different twists! Outlook has once again show itself up as a Congress mouthpiece....Firstly, you fail to acknowledge that the entire Amit Shah episode is a case of political vendetta, something even a kid on the street will acknowledge!.

If you have read the India Today story it presents a balanced view by stating the case of CBI, the loopholes in it, the possible crime of Amit Shah and why it is a political vendetta! Why print the crap doled by CBI without any analysis? Don't we have the newspapers for it! Points your story miss altogether are that

1. The appointment of Gopal Subramniam as solicitor general of India as a quid pro quo by Sonia Gandhi
2. The fact that the alleged approver is himself an indicted person facing serious charges
3. The fact that CBI refused to seek Shah's remand

There may well be a case against Shah but in your eyes he is already guilty...after all you are only doing your italian mistresses bidding!
Srinivas
Lucknow, iNDIA
Aug 03, 2010 01:05 PM
24
Anwaar,

I can fully understand that your identity as a Muslim is what dictates your comments. The fact remains that Sohrabuddin will not be missed much by this country. Did you question any other encounters when it did not involve a BJP government? So why cry now? Whats your motive?

Now the on the point that "The CBI did not pick Gujarat. The Supreme Court picked Gujarat. But that would make no difference to a butt-licking sanghi like you." You are so horribly wrong....Please read the India Today story and it will give you an idea of how Sonia has manipulated her powers to appoint a Pliant Solicitor General and got this case into Supreme Court ambit.

My friend if you read outlook alone it will feed you congress crap.The same Congress that wants you and your brothers frightened of the so called rightist forces for ever!You are their most trusted vote bank! They keep Muslims in shanties, keep you in utter poverty, keep you illiterate and yet you will have to vote for them...because they have successfully manufactured a fear in your heart! The target here is not Modi or Amit Shah...for all you care Gujarat is a lost cause for Congress. The strategy is keep some action going on Modi front....Lose Gujarat but gain Muslim vote in the rest of the country! You have no where to run! Think and you will understand!
Srinivas
Lucknow, iNDIA
Aug 03, 2010 01:16 PM
25
Correction in my last post: Please read the India Today story and it will give you an idea of how Sonia has manipulated her powers to appoint a Pliant Solicitor General and got this case into Supreme Court ambit.

Read CBI instead of Supreme Court!
Srinivas
Lucknow, iNDIA
Aug 03, 2010 01:30 PM
26
Srinivas,

>> The fact remains that Sohrabuddin will not be missed much by this country. Did you question any other encounters when it did not involve a BJP government?

I have written about 30 posts on the subject in the past three days. If you had read them, you would not have written your shallow and slanted comment.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 04, 2010 05:43 AM
27
>> The fact remains that Sohrabuddin will not be missed much by this country.

Justice system and Law exists against murder, extoritions etc for reasons more than just that.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Aug 04, 2010 10:00 AM
28
"Justice system and Law exists against murder, extoritions etc for reasons more than just that.'

KUMAR

Justice for 20000 Sikhs killed in 1984 -exists where ?

Justice for 17oo encounter deaths -exists where ?

justice for 25000 Muslims killed in Lalu Rule -exists where ?

justice for Muliana Muslim youths shot daed -exists where ?

Sajjan Kumar not guilty -justice for Sikh victims where ?

And when you ,Vermas,Sharmas,Farukies will speak for them too ??

Should be ashamed of your Bogus and Nakli Secularism !
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 04, 2010 11:27 AM
29
Ghai,

>> when you ,Vermas,Sharmas,Farukies will speak for them too?

This is such a hypocritical argument! We speak about what is in the news and what the article under discussion is about. It is you who without shame make snide remarks about the investigation of very serious crimes including multiple murders. You have hardly anything to say about Hindutva terror. Your sole interst is in smearing Congress. You give a damn about India.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 04, 2010 03:16 PM
30
"your sole interst is in smearing Congress. You give a damn about India." Faruki ji

I totally disagree and reject your above two allegations but surely review your other balance objections.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 04, 2010 04:04 PM
31
the arguments by internet hindus in the sohrabuddin case on various forums is ridiculous to say the least.it was not that he was caught and killed as a encounter for his criminal activities. he was captured with his wife and killed later after getting the information on his illgotten extortion money followed by rape/murder of his wife.
the witness prajapati his accomplice feared for his life and petitioned the court for his safety and even then was killed in another ?encounter before he was to depose.
imagine if someone kills kalmadi now for his sins and runs away with his illgotten money will he a national hero. the same with sohrabuddin.how can we have police officers who rape/murder and do all criminal activities for money/orders of politicians/satisfy their ego(kindly remember the incident of dehradun of a MBA student killed and labelled as a terrorist just becos he was arguing with the police).no normal human being will support the rape and cold blooded murders but internet hindus fed on manu dharma support and glorify it.
when vanjara was in action there were several attempts on modi s life and he neutalised all but now after his confinement poor muslims stopped all attempts on modi s life as there is no equal opponent to save him.communalising death penalty by arguing specifically on afzal guru to supercede other rapists/murderers convicted before him,organising bharat bhandhs to prevent investigation/arrest if the murder accused is a shankaracharya and communalising fake encounters involving rape/murder/extortion all comes natural for internet hindus.
@ghai kindly go and talk with any sc/st/real obc employeee in govt/public sector/political parties etc before u comment again on hindu getting radicalised.kindly go thru the surnames of hindu terror and u will find who r the radicalised and internet hindus
ganapathi
chennai, India
Aug 04, 2010 08:59 PM
32
"@ghai kindly go and talk with any sc/st/real obc employeee in govt/public sector/political parties etc before u comment again on hindu getting radicalised.kindly go thru the surnames of hindu terror and u will find who r the radicalised and internet hindus "

I served in public Sector for 37 yrs.in very Senior position.After leaving I have employed 98% SC/ST/OBC in my office in fairly high positions including Senior Managers.Two are Muslims.
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 04, 2010 11:44 PM
33
AK Ghai,

>> Justice for 20000 Sikhs ... Justice for 17oo encounter deaths ... justice for 25000 Muslims killed in Lalu Rule .. And when you ,Vermas,Sharmas,Farukies will speak for them too .. Should be ashamed of your Bogus and Nakli Secularism

I condemn all the incidents cited by you, condemn the perpetrators and demand justice. I also condemn atrocities committed by hindu extremists. It is now your turn to do the same. This should show who is asli and who is Nakli.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Aug 05, 2010 12:23 AM
34
@ Anwaar: I have written about 30 posts on the subject in the past three days. If you had read them, you would not have written your shallow and slanted comment.

Precisely, you have written 30 posts out of the 26 here and one sentence condemning Azad encounter and other encounters...but you ranted and raved pages and pages on Sohrabuddin encounter and declared yourself a Congressophile. If my comments are shallow then you must have a sound argument against them, so whats that! I agree they are slanted but so are you!

@ Kumar: Justice system and Law exists against murder, extoritions etc for reasons more than just that.

I agree with you, but, you know what happens when you try to bring a criminal to justice in India. The system is something Congress has created in such a way that nothing ever gets done in this country. There are over 15000 encounters that must have taken place post Sohrabuddin and sadly, I did not hear any protest, remark or comment from many of the voices that are shouting from the rooftops today. My point is these encounters are something that are wholly avoidable, if only, we were ruled by non-congress parties (need not be BJP...for all you care it could be by PPP or PML.....They would do lesser harm to this country than Congress!) Since that is not the case I think this encounter is justifiable in the sense we avoided another Afzal Guru scenario.

@Ganapathi: Like that Internet Hindu thing you used...but you are one too! Rest of the post you just talked nonsense (which I am presuming you know it as well!)
Srinivas
Lucknow, iNDIA
Aug 05, 2010 12:41 AM
35
Srinivas,

>> you have written 30 posts out of the 26 here and one sentence condemning Azad encounter and other encounters.

What are the headlines these days? How many articles in Outlook are on Sohrabuddin and how many on Azad? We still do not know if Azad's murder was a fake encounter or not, whereas the Gujarat government itself has admitted before the Supreme Court that Sohrabuddin's death was the result of a fake encounter.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 05, 2010 02:08 AM
36
>> How many articles in Outlook are on Sohrabuddin and how many on Azad?

And that's a problem.

Which is why "secular" media outlets like Outlook, carry no credibility with the rational crowd.
Whats InAName
San Francisco, United States
Aug 05, 2010 05:19 AM
37
Anwaar,

My question here is very pointed: Does not your Muslim identity cloud your judgment on the response to Sohrabuddin and his encounter? I think it does!

You are looking at news articles whereas I am concerned why it is a news article when the other encounters are not! The reason is simple...you think you have something to get back at Modi and co. and that guides your episodic response and this when you know that majority of media establishment (Outlook being the prime chamcha) is fed on Congress crap. I even cited an example of India Today's coverage on the same story and believe me India Today is no friend of BJP!
Srinivas
Lucknow, iNDIA
Aug 05, 2010 06:20 AM
38
>> Does not your Muslim identity cloud your judgment on the response to Sohrabuddin and his encounter?

Anwar’s Muslim identity may or may not be a reason for his taking up issues of fake encounters, illegal arrests of Muslims etc (many non-muslims take up these issues as well). Even if it is true that his Muslim identity has something to do with it, it does not invalidate the merit of the point made (any more than a woman taking up woman’s issues makes the issue invalid)
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Aug 05, 2010 06:31 AM
39
>> >> Justice system and Law exists against murder, extoritions etc for reasons more than just that.

>> I agree with you, but, you know what happens when you try to bring a criminal to justice in India.

Everyone knows/agrees that there are deficiencies in justice system in India. That means that we have to work towards strengthening it – not invalidating/weakening it further.

>> There are over 15000 encounters that must have taken place post Sohrabuddin and sadly, I did not hear any protest, remark or comment from many of the voices

If the party in question asserted that the law must take it course, affirmed their faith in law/constitution (and fight is battles legally/constitutionally, as all others do), this case would not have become such a bit issue either.
Kumar
Bangalore, India
Aug 05, 2010 06:59 AM
40
Kumar,

>> If the party in question asserted that the law must take it course, affirmed their faith in law/constitution (and fight is battles legally/constitutionally, as all others do), this case would not have become such a bit issue either.

I have no recollection of Amit Shah stating he would fight any other way than a legal/political way. I have listed a few aspects which really put the entire process of charge sheeting Amit Shah questionable. To repeat:

1. The appointment of Gopal Subramniam as solicitor general of India as a quid pro quo by Sonia Gandhi
2. The fact that the alleged approver is himself an indicted person facing serious charges and so his statement is unlikely to stand legal scrutiny
3. The fact that CBI refused to seek Shah's remand

All the above point towards a circumvention of institutions to serve a narrow political goal. Institutions are directed in India from 10 Janpath. Like I said, Amit Shah may be guilty but right now he is as innocent as you and I and Conviction of Amit Shah is not something Congress wants the CBI to do....you must be intelligent enough to understand that! So when there are so many flaws and when the victim himself is a criminal (convicted and had warrants pending in 5 states) whats the big deal about an encounter...definitely it is not India's first not will it be the last. Congress is systematically destroying institutions, be they CBI, Governors, Courts, Parliament etc. and then there are guys who want to applaud from this mis-use from the sidelines!

>> Even if it is true that his Muslim identity has something to do with it, it does not invalidate the merit of the point made

Definitely, I agree with your point. I am no one to question why he's taking up the issue. The question is whether his judgment is clouded by his identity and so his aggressive defense of Sohrabuddin. The glee is unsuppressible even when he knows that the entire thing is going to end up in a sham!

When conviction is not the purpose, who is caring about Sohrabuddin and his encounter-except of course Congress which has an eye on the gullible Muslim vote bank.
Srinivas
Lucknow, iNDIA
Aug 05, 2010 07:18 AM
41
Srinivas,

>> Does not your Muslim identity cloud your judgment on the response to Sohrabuddin and his encounter?

Does not your Hindu identity make you blind to such gross criminality on the part of our police?

>> I even cited an example of India Today's coverage on the same story.

You cited only one story from India Today, but on the whole the coverage of this story by India Today is not that different from that of The Times of India, The Indian Express, The Hindu, The Hinustan Times or Outlook. I like India Today.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 05, 2010 07:31 AM
42
Srinivas,

>> The question is whether his judgment is clouded by his identity and so his aggressive defense of Sohrabuddin.

Condemning fake encounter murders is not the same as defending Sohrabuddin. Why is that so difficult for you guys?
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 05, 2010 04:22 PM
43
dear ghai happy to hear that u employ a lot of dalits and obcs but my point was on their opinion about radical hindutva.i am yet to see a dalit who will give his life for ramsetu/article 370(most tribal states and tribal regions have more powers than article 370.there r areas under forest act where nontribals will be arrested if they are found)and even dalits in bjp/rss will not tolerate insult to babasaheb ambedkar who lived his life antihindu.i move with a lot of dalits/real obcs and their views on radical hindu outfits/love for hindutva is either irritation/anger/indifference.
ganapathi
chennai, India
Aug 05, 2010 05:29 PM
44
just the other day, an debate on a social networking site got me wondering how Modi and his ideology has a vice like grip on the psyche of many amongst us. terror and fear suddenly seem to be acceptable colaterals in the race to be the superpower, and modie exemplifies that scholl pf thought. i hope the noose of the law gets to modi's neck soon, for a just end to him would be the begining of the war against the modi-mentality.
ameetbhuvan
bhubaneswar, India
Aug 05, 2010 07:56 PM
45
"I also condemn atrocities committed by hindu extremists. It is now your turn to do the same." ' kUMAR

I have gone further and said many times and say again kill Hindu extremists in fake or real encounters.I never opposed killing of ULFA and BODO HINDU extremists .Hindu extremists are being killed regularly when I defended them ?
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 05, 2010 08:38 PM
46
Ghai,

>> I have gone further and said many times and say again kill Hindu extremists in fake or real encounters.

So should we close our courts and fire our judges and lawyers? That would save us a lot of money. The police can arrest the suspects, and decide whether to kill them or lock them up. If they decide to kill them, they can use them for target practice.
Anwaar
Dallas, United States
Aug 05, 2010 08:47 PM
47
"If they decide to kill them, they can use them for target practice."Faruki

Some Police forces have and some not have these privilege presently.Ratio of have nots is 17 to 1700 haves !
a k ghai
mumbai, India
Aug 07, 2010 09:41 AM
48
A society is doomed if it is run by criminals. Leaders should be examples of virtue and not vice. Tragically, for Gujarat, indeed for India as a whole, it is the opposite. Terrorists hold the highest office by the will of the people..
david albuquerque
Brisbane, Australia
Aug 07, 2010 03:34 PM
49
Ganapathi,

It is not just Dalits even the 'upper castes' will not give their life for things like "Ram Setu". :-)

I don't think Hindus are that "brainwashed" yet. Unlike Muslims who can do anything to avenge the blasphemy of their prophet or the Tamils who give up their life for the "glory" of Tamil.

Hindutvadis must take lessons from Christian missionaries and Dravidian propagandists on how to indulge in propaganda.
Selvan
Boston, United States
Aug 07, 2010 03:36 PM
50
But you do have a point. Unless Hindutvadis who by and large now are upper caste folks bring in Dalits and other lower castes to the movement and give leadership positions they cannot succeed.

That is why Narendra Modiji is very important in the "Hindutva" scheme of things and that is why he is the target of the "secular" and "Christian missionary" crowd.
Selvan
Boston, United States
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